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[D]Banelings - solution to the weak 200/200 Z army? - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
RedHelix
Profile Joined August 2010
250 Posts
November 08 2010 16:51 GMT
#41
thank you Logo ^^
5miley
Profile Joined January 2010
United States64 Posts
November 08 2010 20:42 GMT
#42
that first replay was insane, a 166 zerg army beating a 200/200 toss army with 7 collosi?!?! the toss was so far ahead, was even in expansions and had like twice the worker count. this is definitely something i will be trying to work into my play. Do you think this would work on a stalker/ collosus mix also? I tend to see that more on ladder than zealot/collosus/pheonix.
lol in the pants
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
November 08 2010 20:49 GMT
#43
This can work but imo its inferior to other options like corruptors, infestors and/or ultra's to counter the colossi. Cost effectively beating stalker/colossi is imo impossible if you didn't start of with muta/ling but generally you won't have too as you should be up a base against colossus play.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
November 08 2010 20:58 GMT
#44
On November 09 2010 05:49 Markwerf wrote:
This can work but imo its inferior to other options like corruptors, infestors and/or ultra's to counter the colossi. Cost effectively beating stalker/colossi is imo impossible if you didn't start of with muta/ling but generally you won't have too as you should be up a base against colossus play.



1) Corruptors - Corruptors don't instantly do their damage. They take time to kill colossi and don't do anything after colossi are dead. With this strat not only are the ground units damaged/killed but colossi are too all in one big explosion. I really think this is far better than corruptors when you are ahead/even eco wise.

2) Infestors - Not quite sure how infestors counter colossi. NP normally just gets target fired and then you just lost 150g.

3) Ultras - This is before you have ultras kicking in and you need to break a Ps army.

Really people should read the OP before commenting like this. It's a solid idea that seems far better than having zerglings when maxed.
Gryffes
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom763 Posts
November 08 2010 21:04 GMT
#45
Surprised nobody mentioned my favourite thing in these replays - the game on metalopolis he realises the P is going fast expand and he hatch cancels > evolution chamber at the protoss natural to delay it quite a lot. Such a sexy move.
www.youtube.com/gryffes - Random Gaming Videos.
Treemonkeys
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2082 Posts
November 08 2010 21:09 GMT
#46
My goal for the week - use baneling bombs in every game!
http://shroomspiration.blogspot.com/
Avril_Lavigne
Profile Joined April 2010
United States446 Posts
November 08 2010 21:20 GMT
#47
On November 09 2010 06:04 Luckbox wrote:
Surprised nobody mentioned my favourite thing in these replays - the game on metalopolis he realises the P is going fast expand and he hatch cancels > evolution chamber at the protoss natural to delay it quite a lot. Such a sexy move.


then he waits for the evo to die so that the broodlings can take the damage from the canons and he can runby into the protoss's main with his lings. so good. god damn koreans
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
November 08 2010 21:44 GMT
#48
On November 09 2010 05:58 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2010 05:49 Markwerf wrote:
This can work but imo its inferior to other options like corruptors, infestors and/or ultra's to counter the colossi. Cost effectively beating stalker/colossi is imo impossible if you didn't start of with muta/ling but generally you won't have too as you should be up a base against colossus play.



1) Corruptors - Corruptors don't instantly do their damage. They take time to kill colossi and don't do anything after colossi are dead. With this strat not only are the ground units damaged/killed but colossi are too all in one big explosion. I really think this is far better than corruptors when you are ahead/even eco wise.

2) Infestors - Not quite sure how infestors counter colossi. NP normally just gets target fired and then you just lost 150g.

3) Ultras - This is before you have ultras kicking in and you need to break a Ps army.

Really people should read the OP before commenting like this. It's a solid idea that seems far better than having zerglings when maxed.


Mixing banelings with infestors who have NP is actually highly effective. They have to focus infestors and spread out their forces all at once. You can test your opponents micro without too much of your own (besides a couple control groups).
Hey! How you doin'?
Deathfairy
Profile Joined August 2010
148 Posts
November 08 2010 22:30 GMT
#49
I dont understand why people are complaning about cost. Lets say you have your regular roach hydra army and toss now massing collosus from 2 robos. If you were to get corrupors vs 6 collosus you would need at very least 10. That is 1500/1000 that could fund 30 blings.That do 600 aoe damage more then enough to kill all collusus instantly. As well as damage rest of the army.

If you add the resources saved from units that didnt die to collosus it becomes hugely effective. Hydra roach ling >> gateway units VERY cost effectively. So even if you loose some resources on killing collosi you make them up in the rest of the fight.

s1eger
Profile Joined August 2010
United States126 Posts
November 08 2010 22:40 GMT
#50
i did try in 3 games with my 2000+ partners and result is so much of a gg ill post replays when i get home, but really this is awesome, because my weakest point against toss is the mid-late transition. and one said that we need 20 banes agasint 5colo. i think it is really nice though it is A LOT easier to get 20banes then 6-8corruptors and 5colo. and the other thing is jooktojung is a beast

I am now a happy person
cOoL
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
November 08 2010 22:46 GMT
#51
On November 08 2010 16:03 Alpina wrote:
Banelings are pretty expensive.

You should try to drop raoches instead of banelings, I don't think it would be much worse, and they don't suicide instantly.

Anywayss that's pretty cool, would work wonders on zealot/sentry heave army.

On November 08 2010 18:44 Douillos wrote:
Question: why not just drop lings instead of banes? Is it really that useful to have banes to kill the collosii?

You drop banelings because they, unlike anything else Zerg has, are supply-effective, which is absolutely necessary once you start approaching 200/200.
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
November 08 2010 22:49 GMT
#52
I will have to train my drops because this sounds like a really effective way to deal with one of the scariest things in the game (Tossballs with high colossus count). Should work awesomely against high templars too. It's of course also very easy to "transition" into from muta-ling which I like to go in all matchups.
orcslayermac
Profile Joined July 2010
United States138 Posts
November 08 2010 22:54 GMT
#53
I really have to take a better look at this. After reading through this entire thread and specifically reading this post:

On November 09 2010 01:21 Sclol wrote:
i feel like it works mostly since people see overlords and think (food)
i had so many games in zvt where my enemy was just walking there ignoring my overlords and all his marines died


It completely dawned on me how many overlords I sent into my opponent's base to scout, Or his natural, or his 3rd. How many opponents casually send 2 marines or 2 stalkers to kill it? Often times my overlord will get through the base barely scathed when they don't notice.

How many times have I been sending overlords all over the map for vision, (specifically scrap station) and I see my opponent's M&M ball? What if those overlords had banelings?!

Now is the time that our Overlords learn to instill FEAR into our enemies!
Terran A+move... Right into my banelings? Yes please!
Catyoul *
Profile Joined April 2004
France2377 Posts
November 08 2010 23:33 GMT
#54
On November 09 2010 05:42 5miley wrote:
that first replay was insane, a 166 zerg army beating a 200/200 toss army with 7 collosi?!?! the toss was so far ahead, was even in expansions and had like twice the worker count. this is definitely something i will be trying to work into my play. Do you think this would work on a stalker/ collosus mix also? I tend to see that more on ladder than zealot/collosus/pheonix.

The first replay was superb, the protoss army just got vaporized. However, army wise they were almost equal (in resources). The protoss actually had 90 probes (!!), which made his main army about 20-30 supply weaker than it should have been.
AzureD
Profile Joined September 2010
United States320 Posts
November 08 2010 23:43 GMT
#55
On November 08 2010 16:21 ayadew wrote:
I made some unit testing and vs colossi the baneling drop is just barely economically worthwhile. The enemy needs at least 5 colossi clumped together and you need 20+ banelings


Are you serious? Then this means they are extremely effective. You know why? It takes a TON of time to get that many Colossi. While it takes mere seconds to get a huge swarm of Banelings. You are buying time and destroying his time resource.

The faster production cycle makes them a counter to long production units even if on the mineral and gas count it is at a net loss.
Aiua
Profile Joined November 2010
France11 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-09 00:26:44
November 09 2010 00:25 GMT
#56
(just made me an account for this one)

600 diamond here.

I think people aren't aware that banelings are VERY effectives against protoss.

When i hadnt internet for a few weeks, i trained a lot against insane AI.
At first i thought zerg would be the hardest race to face AIs, since they have way more resources than you.
But then i discovered how well a 20/30 banelings cluster could crush a protoss army.

Since then i didnt stop making banelings against toss, less effectively since real players can spread and use FF.
With drops it's just the same except they cant do a shit, even with FF.

And about the price of that drop, since you are killing the most powerfull unit of his army, every second you fight with 4 less collosus on the other side is like 4 roachs just added to your army.

(Sorry if my english isnt very clear.)
Dragar
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom971 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-09 00:29:11
November 09 2010 00:28 GMT
#57
I think the point everyone is dancing around but not actually saying, is that even though banelings aren't cost effective against anything really, by killing the most dangerous parts of an enemy army instantly (be these marines or collosi), the rest of your army becomes much more cost-effective.

nanoscorp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1237 Posts
November 09 2010 00:46 GMT
#58
Watching the replays right now, pretty excited about incorporating this into my lackluster ZvP. One nice thing about banelings is their larva and supply efficiency. With bane tech you can pump 100 minerals and 50 gas into your army off one larva. If the only lings you can make are zerglings, you can only dump 50 minerals. Even roaches don't let you do as well, 75/25 with higher supply requirements. I know unit cost doesn't directly equate to combat effectiveness, but assuming you know what you're doing, having a more expensive army usually means some kind of advantage on the field.

So, yeah, looking past just the unit cost, banes let you put a substantial army on the field without the need for a lot of extra hatcheries or overlords. It makes a smoother transition, especially vs P, where they love to hit right when you're going over to lair tech units. Zerglings are larva-intensive, roaches eat up supply, banes are a nice compromise. Timing on the baneling nest is crucial, too early and you hurt your econ, too late and, well, no blings when you need them.
Actua
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada101 Posts
November 09 2010 01:02 GMT
#59
Yup, been using this more and more. Actually tried it vs a toss where I had mass hydras+ultras + ovied banelings. He actually microed the colossi out of it, but the banelings proceeded to mass rape the rest of the army.

When you think about it, any ball of death can be countered with ovied blings. At 20 dmg vs non light unupgraded, 20 blings loaded up will do 400 dmg in a certain splash radius ( the epicenter). Even thors cant live trough that. Coupled with a strong army, its pretty freacking awsome.
sooch
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada299 Posts
November 09 2010 01:38 GMT
#60
Kinda off topic but, WTF was jooktojungs build in the first game? Why'd he save so much gas before adding his evos or starting ling speed? I liked the banelings though, I don't see a reason why they wouldn't work vs any composition.
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