I am wondering now, what if instead of 1 void ray, I use two phoenixes to accompany the light gateway rush? They can pick up queens and roaches and may well be quite handy.

GoldenH

1115 Posts

November 05 2010 00:03 GMT

#25

Phoenix is quite good against Zerg, but not as your main army. You will have to expand and get a robo bay and more gateways. You will be able to pick up queens and roaches, but your phoenix will not be able to kill them until you get a lot, so, you end up with a heavy stalker army...

A neat tip is that if you build a void ray, then chrono boost out phoenixes, your 1st void ray & phoenix will arrive at his base at the same time on most maps. This will pretty much force him into hydra play, if you keep the 1 VR alive, since the VR will beat any corrupters he builds to try and kill the phoenix.

I highly reccomend delaying the Stargate slightly though, since the phoenix still will not be able to deal with a roach or zergling timing attack. (VRs are clearly better against ground, and even then, they will not be enough...)

Phoenix also builds faster than VR, so you can go the 2 gate fast stalker, then build your stargate. When the first phoenix finishes, move out, and the second phoenix will join up with your army before you get to his base... you can keep building phoenixes and have them reinforce your army because they are sooo fast. It's actually hilarious having a zealot + phoenix + forge build, since you can lift up all his roaches and then the zealots charge in and kill all the hydras, your phoenix drop the roaches and the zealots surround them and kill them all while your phoenix has a field day...

orcslayermac

United States138 Posts

November 05 2010 01:38 GMT

#26

I'm assuming you have to double gas to get the void ray out super quickly? As soon as I see a 2nd gas go down I make sure I have 3 queens at minimum. If you can do it on one gas and hide the tech structure I imagine it would be much more easy to pull off. Honestly, queens should be able to hold it off no problem in higher level play. I'd really be afraid of queens throwing this strat way off.

IMO this should not work very well vs a good Zerg player that knows what to scout for. On the other hand, if you're in gold league, go nuts.

Of course, if you can get some replays and show that you can get a void ray out fast enough by all means I could be wrong.

Sigma01

Australia41 Posts

November 05 2010 03:46 GMT

#27

I actually had medium success a while back before the latest patch with a Void Zlot push against both Protoss & Zerg.

What my build consisted of was; 5 probes on gas (enough to produce only voidrays out of 1 stargate).
and 2 gate's just constantly producing zealots.

if they scout my build - what protoss usually do is go stalkers (and my push usually came out before stalkers had blink). Even though the stalkers own my void rays, i micro them so that the zealots go ahead and take out the stalkers.

On the other hand - for zrg - they usually respond with hydras and zlots own hydras when they're not focused down.. Usually had enough voidrays as well to deal wit hthe mutas that popped as well.

one problem was where they go roach hydra or mass queens.

Lately - i've been thinking of integrating phoenixes into that build to lift off queens to reduce the DPS of the zerg army. Just a thought.

david0925

212 Posts

November 05 2010 03:52 GMT

#28

I've actually thought about Void Ray and Zealot pushes on paper. Basically have the 1-2 Void Rays charge and kill Roaches while keeping Zealots on Zerglings out of Roach Range (basically don't engage the Zerglings with Zealots if they don't actively engage your Zealots). What this will do is force the Zerg player down the Hydralisk path since Muta play won't be viable (imminent Phoenix threat).

The problem with this build is the fact that 5/7 RR can hit your base much earlier than Void ray comes out, and with just Zealots you'll die horribly. Building Sentries will make this push much later since it consumes so much gas.

So at least without refinement, this build isn't that viable.

GoldenH

1115 Posts

November 05 2010 05:25 GMT

#29

VRs just don't do enough DPS to kill the roaches; they can be safely ignored.

Also you don't have to get your second gas to get VRs until you throw down the Stargate. You can actually do zealot + phoenix off one gas. Since you could just as easily scout the Stargate, there is no tell on the build.

Krychek

United States172 Posts

November 05 2010 09:54 GMT

#30

I found it quite unviable. Why? It can work once, or maybe aganist some low level players at first, but the damage 1 void can deal is not too much, cose once its spoted, Z will take propper actions. That´s why the push must be at least 2 VR; by the time they reach Z base, the amount of damage/surprise is much more. Check NonY vs Idra game 5 for the BO.

Deleted User 101379

4849 Posts

November 05 2010 10:21 GMT

#31

Am i the only one who thinks that void rays against Zerg are a waste of resources?
With Queens the Zerg have one of the most cost efficient anti-air units in the game and they always get them, so the only way to do damage with void rays is by having more of them than the enemy has queens (so at least 2 around the 6 minute mark) and after that you have to have enough to kill the mutalisks, which have a bounce attack for extra damage, killing groups of void rays very quick (though i don't know if it's cost-effective).

A Phoenix/Void Ray combo to lift queens might work, but thats almost an all-in if you want to get them before he gets hydras and if he scouts it you will have a hard time winning since he can just kill your base with ground forces.

The only time it works is if the zerg overreacts, but it's always a bad idea to count on the enemy playing badly.

Aervhorn

Norway67 Posts

November 05 2010 12:50 GMT

#32

IdrA vs Nony (ZvP): The game involves two void rays and lasts 6 minutes:

I wonder if IdrA would quit also if they were hallucinated. His gg-reflex here is just amazing!

Treehead

999 Posts

November 05 2010 13:56 GMT

#33

On November 05 2010 21:50 Aervhorn wrote:
IdrA vs Nony (ZvP): The game involves two void rays and lasts 6 minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNPmgZjdOTg

I wonder if IdrA would quit also if they were hallucinated. His gg-reflex here is just amazing!

I was going to note this match as well here. VRs certainly aren't terrible against zerg if his tech is delayed, and especially if they are doing some very early roach rush. I'm pretty sure if they weren't damaging things that Idra would notice, though.

It is worth noting here, also, that this VR tactic only worked as well as it did in this situation because:

1. In all the previous games, Nony opened with 3-4 gateways and used them to get a huge gateway army in the early game.
2. Nony allowed Idra to once again scout 3 gateways coming down early, leading him to believe another warpgate push was coming.
3. This happened to be one of the games where Idra did not drone and tech until Nony decided to apply pressure.

That said, this clearly has ladder potential against a zerg who delays tech too long for the sake of early pushes or early economy advantage.

Aervhorn

Norway67 Posts

November 05 2010 14:04 GMT

#34

Yeah, the metagame probably won Nony this match.

But generally zerg are in a very bad spot IF you catch them with their pants down: no hydra den and just 2 queens sitting at each base. Roaches are so popular as of v1.1.2 so VRs are more than occasionally a game-winner in my low diamond experience.

GoldenH

1115 Posts

November 05 2010 14:47 GMT

#35

Idra just quit because he didn't wait 5 seconds to see how bad the VR damage was nerfd. Pre-patch, I'd definitely say Idra would have lost there. Currently, he would have lost a roach or two, then made it back to his main and the safety of crawlers.

I really want to say he GG'd because he wasted larvae on an army when he could have kept making econ.