EPTWhether or not it gets me wins I'm going to be continuing to practice macro tonight, and I'm sure in the process get more practice defending against builds like this.
The 3 Roach Rush (lightning Ragnarok Majesty) - Page 7
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Kelsin
United States253 Posts
Whether or not it gets me wins I'm going to be continuing to practice macro tonight, and I'm sure in the process get more practice defending against builds like this. | ||
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Kayzer.
Germany79 Posts
On November 03 2010 05:39 Kelsin wrote: Threads like this are why I read TL by default instead of the official sc2 forums. I just don't understand the viewpoint of trying to find the perfect cheese. So many posts talk about how Koreans play sc2 to get better and americans play to win... seems pretty accurate. Whether or not it gets me wins I'm going to be continuing to practice macro tonight, and I'm sure in the process get more practice defending against builds like this. This is pretty much what i thought when I read this. I recently switched to Zerg and I did so because I like the macro game. If i really felt like going all-in all the time just to get some fancy avatars unlocked real quick I would probably stay protoss and 4gate -_-. I would'nt mind so much about going all-in if it wasn't so common... in every 2nd game I play on the ladder someone does some hudge 1base-push (mostly Terrans and Toss obviously... but there's also a lot of cheese in ZvZ). That makes it pretty hard to get better in the late game. I don't wanna be too critical though. It's a nice build to know... you could use it some time. For example if you play in some tournament and your opponent chooses Steppes of War or something like that. I just don't like the idea of doing it all the time. I would prefer to see some kind of 3 roach pressure opening into macro game (preferably with a more economic build than 9 pool). | ||
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Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
ZvT, Terrans just throw up a bunker and ZvZ, zergs can just pool out of it. But toss really cant do anything except besides a complete wall off with cannons and probes, but even that hasn't stopped me yet. Just a few lings help vs kiting stalkers, so skip a roach and build some lings if you are having trouble with that. I'm going to continue doing this every zvp until somebody can beat it. | ||
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Kurayuki
Korea (South)36 Posts
On November 02 2010 01:24 metalsonic wrote: and skyro what do u do when the zerg decides to build a spawning pool + baneling nest , banelings really hard counter gate forge openings , or is it just me doing something wrong ? Two words Force Field. Personally, I think roach buff was completely uncalled for on Blizzard's part. For real? You're gonna buff unit that's virtually unstoppable for toss unless you go robo tech for Protoss? Thanks Blizz. Add that to another superiority of Zerg list on top of imba mutalisks. (taking upgrades into account) Also, stalkers hardly counter roaches anymore even pre-speed upgrade now since their range is so long, while you're kiting, you are more than likely to get hit while they have damage superiority. Also, I just had someone do a 5 roach all in with drones, where drones just ghost walked through my blocked choke then sniped out stalker. Yeah, talk about unstoppable. It was done at steppes, where it really was virtually impossible to get a sentry out in time unless you give up on getting stalker out first, even though you know roaches are in route.By the way, drones ghostwalk through FF too so yeah... | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
EDIT: Namely, chrono 1 Zealot to deal with any early Zerglings, then chrono 2 Stalkers and prepare for a 4gate if there's no immediate follow-up. | ||
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Ganondorf
Italy600 Posts
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TibblesEvilCat
United Kingdom766 Posts
i made my freind sweat hard mircoing though, one thing we did learn though was that walling at the ramp vs zerg doesn't seem to be the best option anymore, (as 6-8 pools probes and zealots can win, depending on the goodness of the sourround) also, if you scout that early Roach warren, i sugguest you suicde your zealot to kill drones, trust me, this build is soo tight 1-2 drones lost = not enough money to keep producing the roaches, giving more breathing room. | ||
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Noxie
United States2227 Posts
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necroticah
South Africa233 Posts
On November 03 2010 03:48 drewbie.root wrote: nice thread, teach everyone to allin roach cheese, thanks for that lol... Drewbie, just lol. I was wondering, since I only read about this now and I'm at work. Is it viable to 'trick' your opponent by cancelling the warren after he scouted it and you kill the scout then go into a fast muta build for his bazillion maruaders? | ||
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Boysarn
Sweden77 Posts
On November 03 2010 16:06 necroticah wrote: lol... Drewbie, just lol. I was wondering, since I only read about this now and I'm at work. Is it viable to 'trick' your opponent by cancelling the warren after he scouted it and you kill the scout then go into a fast muta build for his bazillion maruaders? Ofc it is, but like every other strategy everything has flaws. Firstly he doesn't need mass maruaders to defend this with bunker, even one will probably do. Even if they do get quite a big army he will scout you and realise something is up and pushout with his army, you won't get mutas enough to defend the push or even close to enough mutas and you'll die. That early spawning pool will hit your ecenomy real hard aswell giving him a sweet advantage. I would recommend never to do this vs and semi-good terran or zerg and never vs any good protoss since all of these players will scout it and react otherwise. Like I said even if you cancell it he will have a economical advantage and if you decide to drone nothing stops him from stomping you with a army. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On November 03 2010 16:06 necroticah wrote: lol... Drewbie, just lol. I was wondering, since I only read about this now and I'm at work. Is it viable to 'trick' your opponent by cancelling the warren after he scouted it and you kill the scout then go into a fast muta build for his bazillion maruaders? No. The 9pool is a huge economic commitment that can't be transitioned out of without significant damage being dealt. Forcing an early army is not enough damage to justify a 9pool. Once he notices that Roaches aren't coming, he'll realize he has an immense army lead and just kill you. Your Mutas won't be out for a long time after. | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
The best response by toss seems to be sending a very fast zealot to kill a couple of drones before the roaches pop, after that, the rush is dead. Toss can also FF the ramp and bring out stalkers quickly, but I had some success against that because instead of 3 roaches entering the base, I waited for my reinforcements and enter the base with 5-6 roaches. For Terran, the obvious response is to place a quick bunker and repair. Final thought say that it's very easy to stop if scouted, but it's a very powerful build if your opponent hasn't seen it before and doesn't prepare. That said, I think it's important to try out all sorts of cheese builds, if one ever arises that really IS impossible to stop, it proves a true imbalance and can be fixed, and if not, it helps keep players sharp in the early game. | ||
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SonicTitan
United States249 Posts
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Slakter
Sweden1947 Posts
Brb, gonna try ^^ | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Urfi
Switzerland13 Posts
here the rep: http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/280264/3RR-Fail-SC2Replay.html | ||
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InfC.AnatoLiy
United States154 Posts
So whats the transition from this 3RR when a toss goes 12 gate, 15 gate and double chronos boosts 2 stalkers to poke around your base initially and gladly finds your 3 roaches then proceeds to kite them as they are traveling off creep towards the toss base? | ||
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TheFinalWord
Australia790 Posts
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quarkle
United Kingdom92 Posts
On November 04 2010 05:50 InfC.AnatoLiy wrote: I can't picture this working against many opponents. As you mentioned this is an all-in strategy and may possibly work one time. So whats the transition from this 3RR when a toss goes 12 gate, 15 gate and double chronos boosts 2 stalkers to poke around your base initially and gladly finds your 3 roaches then proceeds to kite them as they are traveling off creep towards the toss base? There's noway you could get 2 stalkers into the zerg base on any map at the 3:40 mark to poke around, that suggests to me you don't understand this rush. Come back after you've checked out your own timings. I also think you are missing the point of this rush. If you've never faced this rush before and lets face it the "The lightning Ragnarok Majesty" is relatively new ...panick can and most likely will set in. when there are three roaches knocking at your door so early (4 minute mark) its not so easy to think logically and say to yourself everything is cool there's no transition ...all the while the roaches are burning down your house.  and there's more roaches on route.Sure, now that the 3 roach rush has become a recognised strat its easy in hindsight to deal with it. On the ladder though at most levels it still has a lot of potential, not every sc2 player has access to this forum so it still has potential to not only win fast but also screw up established build orders which perhaps isn't such a bad thing. It adds yet another level of anxiety for both protoss and terran players. On a sidenote Blizzard often pride themselves on how balanced all 3 races are but in reality zerg easily have the most potential for early rushes. Some top level ladder players can maintain their position using such cheese without ever really being skillful so in that respect i think blizzard have to rethink the current inbalance unless they are happy that a bag of cheese can earn you a platinum position whilst there's hundreds if not thousands of bronze players that would kick their sorry arses if zerg didn't have these strats available. | ||
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ZapRoffo
United States5544 Posts
On November 03 2010 05:39 Kelsin wrote: Threads like this are why I read TL by default instead of the official sc2 forums. I just don't understand the viewpoint of trying to find the perfect cheese. So many posts talk about how Koreans play sc2 to get better and americans play to win... seems pretty accurate. Whether or not it gets me wins I'm going to be continuing to practice macro tonight, and I'm sure in the process get more practice defending against builds like this. Knowing cheeses is a big advantage in tournaments or any series matches where you are playing to win. It's very useful. It's not supposed to be a consistent game winner, it's supposed to be applied when you think your opponent might be playing greedy/susceptible to it and you care about winning. If you are just playing to get better then it's not useful to practice true. I don't know where you get the Korean vs. American thing, everyone says Koreans play super cheesy/experimentally (I think they just play more so they know more styles). BTW what's Lightning Ragnarok Majesty? The names of the 3 roaches? lol | ||
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