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This strategy would hurt me pretty badly if I encountered it without having fought it before, especially because I suck at scouting, and often simply don't do it at all. While I generally have a Barracks+Tech Lab by 3:00, and a Factory+Tech Lab complete by 5:00, my first Marauder normally shows sometime between 4:30-5:30, ultimately aiming for a SCV+Marauder+Thor Rush.
If I saw the Roaches coming, I'd probably lose the 1st Marauder fighting them, while queuing up a Tank, and hopefully another Marauder. Assuming that panic doesn't cause me to screw up royally, I'd order my entire mineral line to run to the Factory as the Tank finishes, than have them mob-repair my Tank while it shoots your little bugs. See, it takes only 2.3 SCVs to repair a Tank as fast as 1.0 Roach can damage it. 3 or even 5 Roaches isn't gonna be enough. I'll take some losses, but nothing I can't recover from.
Overall, I'd say that the key to beating this rush is calling in your workers. The workers can surround and damage the Roaches while Marines/Stalkers shoot them with impunity, and while they might lose some workers, it won't matter given the difference in economies. The key, of course, is for the opponent to realize that they can afford to attack with their workers. In the games I saw, they always sent their workers to attack AFTER their military had been pwned.
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Granted I did not watch the replay but now I did. Your 3 roaches came out at ~3:40 and arrive at his base at ~4:25. My 2 gate stalker opening begins the chronos boosting at 3:38-3:48 and are both usually out at 4:12-4:18. Keep in mind you were close air spawned metalopolis which allowed you to see what he is doing to shoot from down the ramp and relatively close spawn travel locations.
Stalkers out-range and out move roaches so this would never work on me or anyone else that opens with 2 quick poking stalkers. Granted I wouldn't be able to meet you half-way as I thought before watching your metalopolis replay but my ability to defend with 2 stalkers while 3rd and 4th is building would deny any advances you attempt (especially if I eventually add a sentry in the mix).
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On November 04 2010 06:59 InfC.AnatoLiy wrote:
Granted I did not watch the replay but now I did. Your 3 roaches came out at ~3:40 and arrive at his base at ~4:25. My 2 gate stalker opening begins the chronos boosting at 3:38-3:48 and are both usually out at 4:12-4:18. Keep in mind you were close air spawned metalopolis which allowed you to see what he is doing to shoot from down the ramp and relatively close spawn travel locations.
Stalkers out-range and out move roaches so this would never work on me or anyone else that opens with 2 quick poking stalkers. Granted I wouldn't be able to meet you half-way as I thought before watching your metalopolis replay but my ability to defend with 2 stalkers while 3rd and 4th is building would deny any advances you attempt (especially if I eventually add a sentry in the mix).
This isn't my rush, neither did i supply the replays.
I like the rush as its very creative but don't respect ppl that rely on it exclusively or any other rush for that matter.
Agreed it can be countered by many standard openers and certainly isn't a 100% autowin.
I think the op has done us all a favour by drawing our attention to it tho.
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On November 02 2010 14:20 DreamSailor wrote:![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-162252.jpg) Here is a replay of this being used against me, and it failed. It was really friggen scary though, excellent early pressure, very hard for Protoss to deal with this kind of thing.
Imho I feel that he used his roaches wrong. He was focused too much on the stalker, and not enough on your eco. If he used them to pour in more and ruin your economy steadily, he'd face himself sooner or later. But yea, this guy rushed so hard that he didn't pay attention to >anything< aside making roaches and kill stalkers
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On November 02 2010 14:20 DreamSailor wrote:Here is a replay of this being used against me, and it failed. It was really friggen scary though, excellent early pressure, very hard for Protoss to deal with this kind of thing.
Well he was slow with drone production... he is about 10 seconds late on both his second and third drone with is 37% of their build time. And because of this he could only build 2 out of the first batch of three roaches. Then he pulled back to kill a probe which he should have left or used his two lings to kill while it was spotted by the XWT. Finally when he was in your base he spent 20 seconds killing cannons. 20 seconds = 10 shots = 10 dead probes or 1 dead pylon since + 6 dead probes keeping you food capped. He kept trying to engage in places he shouldn't have.
Rule A of rushing - do for sure damage and as much as you can. With the first three roaches and lings if he would have just killed your stalker let your cannon finished, and gone and killed workers, he would have won.
It is a poor execution of the strat, and poor rush mechanics sorry to tell you.
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On November 03 2010 02:01 Fargoth wrote:
I've gotten to the point where instead of a second depot in my wall I put a bunker instead. Stopped a 7 roach rush dead yesterday.
that's exactly what's stopping my roaches in both variants (3 and 5).
If there's a bunker close enough, roaches aren't doing really well in which case you can just give up the push and start macroing trying to contain the terran.
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i got scouted and the dude held it off with gates without too much trouble.
haven't really made this work yet.
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Bronze leaguer here, been having great fun with this build, thanks!
Had to share my experience using this build yesterday: vs. Terran on Jungle Basin, my scouting ovie rocks up to his ramp about 10 secs ahead of my first 3 roaches, and to my dismay, he hasn't walled off. Crestfallen, I pull my 2 drones off gas and get some lings going thinking this'll be an easy runby.
As my roaches enter his base, I look across at the ramp down to his nat, and realise it's completely walled off. That's right. He had walled off the wrong goddamn ramp, blocking off his expansion rather than the field. This leaves me free to squish his rines with my first 3 roaches and go lingwild in his base. Almost couldn't finish him cause I was laughing so hard.
Right now I don't think I ever want to leave the Bronze leagues. Too much fun to be had down here 
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My 7rr/any roach rush isn't working at all. It might kill protoss but Terran easily defends it. You need the roach warren relatively early and the scv is gonna scout it. No lings means easy scout and 2 lings don't really help much. Also toss can do stuff like pylon wall + cannon ur ramp which will basically end any rush.
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Ok so I played 3 games so far with this. All opponents were around 1300 to 1500 diamond level. I played against 2 toss and 1 terran. The toss were really easy to beat even after they scouted it. First toss just went on with usual build order and I killed his 1 stalker and then most of his probes. Other toss put down a forge but I killed the cannons before they warped in and then killed his probes. The terran went for early marauders off 2 rax into factory. The game took a while and ended with a battle between like 12 roaches and 4 marauders and 1 tank.
Roaches absolutely own workers, If they pull workers off I see this as a bonus because they fall so quickly and do little damage and then they cannot produce anything after that
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1600 diamond zerg.
Played 2 games with this vs a 1500~ diamond toss and won both games.
The first game he went for a 2 gate core, had 4 zealots by the time by roaches arrived, needless to say he lost.
Second game he knew that i would 3RR, so he went 1gate core for early stalkers, he had 2 stalkers by the time my 3 roaches arrived. I won by focusing down the pylons, and microing the roach which he was focusing down (Example: His 2 stalkers focus one, move that one back, if he tries to follow it, my other two roaches focus the stalkers down. When he switches targets, do it again.), while my other two beat on his pylons. After I killed 1 pylon, 2 more roaches came, killed the other pylon, and then killed his stalkers with ~5 roaches. He lost the game.
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Pretty novel build, although I feel like once this spreads around the community, it is easily scouted and will be countered just as well, similar to the baneling bust. I won 3 out of the 4 times I used this build, and here's a replay showing what to do as toss when you see this coming, namely, get stalkers and block up your ramp so the roaches are forced to hit buildings to break in, while your stalker count goes up.
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Definitely have to try this. I play quite a few BO5 rounds against my toss buddy, and he's wised up to the 14 pool 16 hatch AND the 6 pool. I'll definitely toss this in the mix.
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9 overlord > extractor trick
Anyway, these roach rushes are hilariously bad and easy to read. I can see why people complain about it since it's cheesy.
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Gold player here, tried this yesterday, had decent results all in all with this build, the problems I had was mainly if the protoss had several pylons supporting the gates, or he went fast stalkers.
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Very effective, me and a friend signed on using a guest pass and 5-0 placement with it lol. Use this vs terran and toss and go mass Sling vs zerg.
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I tried this on a terran and had problems with a bunker =P, ended up failing. Still looks pretty better than 6 pool, maybe this could be the standard zerg cheese now on, lol.
He had just one marauder but he retreated to the bunker and went back to give some shots while I was killing the workers. I couldn't micro very well since my pc is crappy and delays every single command but, excuses aside, looked very winnable. I'll give it some more shots.
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New counter to 2 gate?? :O
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-163494.jpg)
Game Summary:
He starts the game by putting a pylon in my base, and, according to the build, i throw down the 9 pool just after. He immediately starts BMing me, calling me a retard for pooling instead of killing the pylon. I put down gas at 10, and he starts laughing at me for doing so. My build timings were to say the least... PERFECT. I had 225 minerals and 76 gas when his zealot came and instantly I made 3 roaches. Needless to say, he got roflstomped.
This game is a great example of a 3RR and why not to BM people in ladder.. although its also hilarious to watch the mood of the guy and his BM when he sees the roaches pop.
EDIT: When the game was played, I was a 1042 diamond. Mr. BM was a 1281.
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when i see any pool less than 13 pool, I make 3 cannons automatically.
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I've tried this out quite a few times, and it's not very effective against terran, a few marauds can be microed to outrange the roaches even without bunker. It's an effective build but just not an auto win, and if scouted, very easily countered.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-163035.jpg)
