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Hi everyone. For my first new post here at the teamliquid forums, I want to share my 3 roach rush. I posted this up at the Zerg blizz forum (I'm incinerate over there) but I figure it might get a good critical eye here as well. This new attack packs the same punch over time as the typical 7RR, but hits so much faster and is absolutely 100% deadly in my testing thus-far. I'm pretty certain that unless someone starts the game building SPECIFICALLY to stop this, it's GG (a terran -might- be able to stop this after scouting, but none have been able to vs me thus-far). Note, this is NOT a ZvZ build and will lose in that instance, but I have some really amazing replays against some diamond P and T to demonstrate it's power.
VS a Diamond Protoss (Thanks Warp, this is a hilarious replay and I don't mind sharing it here since you asked!):
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&id=163494
VS a 1739 point Diamond Protoss:
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=162076
VS a 1620+ Diamond Protoss who tries to get cannons up behind a full wall-off (too late):
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/102148-1v1-protoss-zerg-steppes-of-war
VS a Diamond Protoss who goes gate/cyber:
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=162175
VS a 1430 point Diamond Terran:
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=162077
As you watch those replays, please note that this strategy is in it's infancy so I make some rookie mistakes (like VS toss I forget to build my overlord after the attack has begun, and that seriously slows my reinforcements - which ultimately allows him to survive much longer than he should have).
EDIT: I've been modifying this build a bit, I will leave my original posted BO etc below, but this is my newest variation on it with a fake-expansion drone to try and throw the enemy off the scent:
Send overlord immediately to enemy ramp. If it's a 4P map, send it to the second closest then move it to the furthest main if he isn't there, send your second OL to the closest.
9 Spawning Pool
10 Extractor (build this when you reach 100 minerals EXACTLY - when it finishes put 2 drones on it)
9 Overlord
Send a drone to the ramp - this is your "fake expo" drone. Move it to the expo when you see the enemy probe/scv scout - try to distract them into attempting to "delay" your fast expansion by dancing around the expo and taking potshots at his scv/probe. Delay long enough to get the zerglings down there to kill it. If this doesn't work, pull a bunch of drones if necessary to intercept the worker scout as he's coming up your ramp, you WANT to kill this scout before he see's what you are doing. He might overreact when you do this, but if he's decent he will -definitely- overreact if he spots that early roach warren (and 2 bunkers or 2 cannons will absolutely 100% hard counter you). The idea here is to make him unable to know if you've fast expanded or not. If he builds cannons vs a fast expand he's put himself way behind.
Build one last drone (this is the last drone you will build)
Zergling the second the spawning pool pops (these are going to attempt to stop the enemy scout - hopefully he's chasing your "expo" drone - if not, use the expo drone and 2 lings to kill it)
Roach Warren @ 150 or when enemy scout is killed (your call)
As the roach warren pops, build 3 roaches IMMEDIATELY (you should have just enough gas/minerals). Rally the hatchery to below the enemy ramp. Build a fourth roach asap as a followup.
Now build an Overlord, then -constantly- build roaches every time you have 75 minerals/25 gas, rallied to the enemy base or ramp.
Here is what I originally posted below
So, here's the build order:
9 Spawning Pool
10 Extractor (build this when you reach 100 minerals EXACTLY, so mine a bit with all 10 drones BEFORE you build the extractor)
9 Overlord
9 Roach Warren
As the Roach Warren is started, the extractor will finish, put 2 (yes, only TWO) drones on the extractor.
Now build 1 zergling, to attempt to deny scouting.
As the roach warren pops, build 3 roaches IMMEDIATELY (you should have just enough gas/minerals). Rally the hatchery to below the enemy ramp.
Now build an Overlord, then -constantly- build roaches every time you have 75 minerals/25 gas, rallied to one of your initial roaches that are heading into the enemy base (this way they automatically join the fray without alot of extra micro required).
This is an all-in strategy, it's basically the Roach version of a 6 pool ling rush, so fully commit and don't build ANY drones.
The first 3 roaches will be completely finished and heading to your enemy base before 3:40. They will arrive somewhere between 4:15-4:30 (3 roaches with a pair of zerglings) depending on the map and rush distance.
If you are facing a Terran, use your overlord to gain vision of the cliff and begin to snipe out one of the supply depots he used to complete his wall from BELOW the cliff. The new roach range will seriously help here, sniping out any marines that try to move forward, or any scv's that come up to repair the building. Remember to CONTINUE BUILDING ROACHES every time you hit 75 min/25 gas (hotkey the hatch and keep using it).
You'll punch through the wall and run over the enemy. Your roaches are there too early for marauders to become a factor, and the marines aren't plentiful enough to stop you. Just keep on attacking, micro'ing around and kiting SCV's/killing SCV's. By 5:30, when a traditional 7RR would have arrived, you already have 7 roaches IN HIS BASE tearing stuff up. GG.
If you are facing Protoss, you'll run into probably 1 zealot. Rush up the ramp and snipe out the pylon powering the forward gateway if possible, if not, move in and begin tearing up probes. Micro kite away if he attacks you with the probes, try not to let them get a surround. Meanwhile, continue roach production and overwhelm him with roaches. Even with completely screwed up build vs an AMAZING micro using protoss (in the replay above) I'm able to run him over with roaches. I even mess up and fail to build an overlord, meaning my reinforcements take a LONG time to arrive, and I forget to rally my hatchery to my roaches, so they end up standing around below his ramp. I -still- overwhelm him.
So, try it, be amazed, and let me know what you think...
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I haven't watched the replays but to me it seems a good Terran will scout the Roach Warren and instantly throw up a bunker. A bunker with even only 1 marine (but probably 2-3) cannot be broken by 3 roaches. Protoss will probably rush for stalkers and just pull probes to deter you from attacking the pylon while kiting your slowroaches around their base and building a second pylon to secure their gateway and close the gap to stop reinforcements.
Might be good if it catches your opponent off guard though. 
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Just watched the replay against the supposed 1739 Diamond Protoss, and I'll tell you.. He was pretty horrible. He went for a late two gate, and was supply blocked for a long time. Got gas he couldn't use, and just was in general pretty terrible. I can't imagine how badly this strategy would have gone for you if a half competent Protoss spawned at cross positions.
I can see this being fairly effective against Terran, if you micro really well, but that's about it.
Also, I don't understand why you didn't build any zerglings to help your roaches out once he had only stalkers? Stalkers can kite roaches forever.
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3 seems like a good number. one shots workers and marines.
Will try it out. Even though you say it is all in, do you think there is any way to transition out of it?
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Just watched both replays. The protoss had good micro as mentioned, but he went for two gate instead of standard gate core.
The terran was the real one thats terrible, he scouted the fast pool. but didn't see the roach warren, he wasted money on an engineering bay at ur natural that he actually finished. Then he had like 300 minerals saved up when u attacked with the roaches.
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On November 01 2010 23:49 johanngrunt wrote:
3 seems like a good number. one shots workers and marines.
Will try it out. Even though you say it is all in, do you think there is any way to transition out of it?
its a 9pool into straight unit pump at T1, no, there is no transition obviously.
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You are too low on drones to transition out. It's like a 6 pool, essentially. You've got one shot at winning, but it's a LOT better of a shot then you have doing a 6 pool .
I'd like to think the protoss fell apart in large part because of the early attack. I torched his pylon pretty quick and screwed him over. I also had VERY delayed followup roaches due to my own supply block, so I doubt he would have ever gotten up that next wave of stalker/sentry if I'd have properly built.
A good Terran might throw up a bunker for his early marine or two, but I should be able to tear through his wall and run straight past it. Bunkers don't move, roaches do. This attack happens quick enough that it can get past it.
Try it before you totally poo-poo it, I think you'll be surprised. You've got some SERIOUS killing power -very- early, and it only rolls up from there (in fact, it's got 7 roaches inside the enemy base earlier than a typical 11/10 pool 7RR). Keep them alive, kite around, and win.
Another thing - you COULD build lings instead of followup roaches, but I found the roaches to be more effective. Yes, a toss can kite them with a single stalker, but I can basically ignore the stalker and tear up every single mining probe he has (3 roaches 1-shot a worker, so it's not hard to rip their line up fast). If you go with zerglings instead, you can throw up 6-8 of them before supply block, and quickly follow them up with another pile of lings as well.
While he's fiddling with kiting around his lone stalker I've ripped his pylons up, killed his probes, and am slowly building a big unstoppable roach force.
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My experience with 5rr shows roaches alone are quite bad at rushing. Speedling support is really necessary for the stage when you break the wall since the workers alone can screw you over.
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On November 01 2010 23:52 pyrobb wrote:
Just watched both replays. The protoss had good micro as mentioned, but he went for two gate instead of standard gate core.
I'm pretty sure a gate/assim would have failed even harder. Early stalker, sure, but less production and an easier time ripping him up imho.
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On November 01 2010 23:57 Cheerio wrote:
My experience with 5rr shows roaches alone are quite bad at rushing. Speedling support is really necessary for the stage when you break the wall since the workers alone can screw you over.
Kite. If he brings workers toward you just keep stepping back and hitting S, then stepping away again. 3 roaches -tear- through workers at this stage in the game, and you've got additional waves of them coming to reinforce. I haven't had any issues with workers stopping me using this build.
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I really don't think the terran player reacted adequately. He saw 10 pool then roach warren immedietly after that and just built 4 marines out of 1 rax and sat on 400+ minerals untill the roaches came then put down 2 panic rax. could have been easily avoided if he built his stuff accordingly ( could have since he saw what was comming ) or just had built more units. or repaired. or built a bunker sooner. or pull workers and countered. simply put, I think he underestimated the situation.
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some scrub did that against me on the ladder and i lost kinda confused at that point any toss have an idea on how to beat it? and i scouted it too.. :/
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A terran has a better shot at beating this than a toss imho. I haven't lost using it -yet- but a Terran did come closest to beating me (he double bunkered my ramp, I broke out with roaches and hit him. I broke through his home wall but he managed to just BARELY kill my scouting OL as I was doing this which put me into supply block. I managed to get OL's up and get enough roaches there to kill him, but only because he thought things had settled down and was trying to expo.
Basically, had he just kept up marine production he probably had me, thanks to the big delay in my attack due to the dual-bunker block.
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Roaches are so slow off creep that if the opponent is scouting you, which a good player always will be doing against fishy one-basing zerg, there is just too much time for them to react unless you are on a map like steppes of war or close positions on LT. If you are going to all-in you might as well do a 6/7 pool + workers.
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One bunker beats this : / It does well versus Protoss, but a Terran scouts in time on 2p maps to counter with a bunker.
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I'm beating -good- players with this. I think it's stronger than a 6 pool+drone attack (which always seems to fail for me).
I know armchair quarterbacking denies the effectiveness, but if you guys give it a shot I think you'll be pleasantly surprised .
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On November 01 2010 23:57 Ncinerate wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 23:52 pyrobb wrote:
Just watched both replays. The protoss had good micro as mentioned, but he went for two gate instead of standard gate core.
I'm pretty sure a gate/assim would have failed even harder. Early stalker, sure, but less production and an easier time ripping him up imho.
Yea but the reality is, it's not about honest opinions, it's about facts, get some more replays against good players, maybe even find a custom game partner. Get proof, against some good players.
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if the 3 roaches arrive around 415 than against toss it could be useful. warpgate (fastest comes around 5:30-5:45) and 3 roaches will break zealot wall and can kill a stalker with range or workers since a stalker can't kill the roaches fast enough. A force field at the ramp will delay roaches but will have 2 deal with reinforcing roaches. In theory sounds good though. As I can't see the replays.
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On November 02 2010 00:11 desrow wrote:
some scrub did that against me on the ladder and i lost kinda confused at that point any toss have an idea on how to beat it? and i scouted it too.. :/
I don't know about other toss players but whenever I scout an early pool I immediately throw down a forge and then a cannon or 2. The good thing for protoss players is a Gate-Forge opening will stop both ling and roach rushes. Tech to voids and it's gg.
I don't doubt it works around 1500's diamond, or that it even works with some regularity. But it requires a protoss player to either underestimate roaches and/or react incorrectly because everybody will be scouting that early pool. There is no real 'surprise factor' involved.
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and skyro what do u do when the zerg decides to build a spawning pool + baneling nest , banelings really hard counter gate forge openings , or is it just me doing something wrong ?
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