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The 3 Roach Rush (lightning Ragnarok Majesty) - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
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Uhh Negative
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1090 Posts
November 01 2010 21:10 GMT
#61
There's absolutely no way this won't get scouted. Buildings lings after a 9 roach warren is super, super late and in no way will deny scouting. If scouted, this can be defended pretty easily.
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
November 01 2010 21:15 GMT
#62
On November 02 2010 06:10 Uhh Negative wrote:
There's absolutely no way this won't get scouted. Buildings lings after a 9 roach warren is super, super late and in no way will deny scouting. If scouted, this can be defended pretty easily.


Every cheese can be scouted and still have it win. I'm definitely going to try this.
luKrek
Profile Joined May 2008
Sweden15 Posts
November 01 2010 21:31 GMT
#63
Requesting more replays.
nanoscorp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1237 Posts
November 01 2010 21:35 GMT
#64
On November 02 2010 05:51 Ncinerate wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2010 05:26 Phrencys wrote:
On November 01 2010 23:34 Ncinerate wrote:
So, here's the build order:
9 Spawning Pool
10 Extractor (build this when you reach 100 minerals EXACTLY, so mine a bit with all 10 drones BEFORE you build the extractor)
9 Overlord
9 Roach Warren

This is a very interesting BO. However a quick run into Haploid's optimizer showed me that you can get a similar timing with 2 more drones if you do a double extractor trick after the spawning pool.

DET BO: http://haploid.nl/sc2/build_order/?buildOrder=10 Spawning Pool
10 Double Extractor Trick
12 Extractor > +2
11 Overlord
11 Roach Warren
10 Roach[3]&strictMode

10 Spawning Pool
10 Double Extractor Trick
12 Extractor > +2
11 Overlord
11 Roach Warren
10 Roach[3]

These 2 drones are certainly worth the 5-6 additional seconds it takes for your roaches to spawn IMO. Another interesting fact is that you can then either go with 2 or 3 drones on gas and still get the 3roaches down.

Having 8 drones on minerals instead of 6 is HUGE. This should allow you to eventually get a queen, so I would probably stick with 2 drones on gas and then switch to 3 when the queen is queued.

Definitely going to give this a shot tonight. Thanks again for sharing.

Edit: you can squeeze in another drone while building your RW, however this will force you to immediately OL after the 3 roaches because you'll be at 17/18. That is, unless you pull-off another extractor trick. According to the optimizer, your 4th Roach will then come about 10sec later than your 3 initial ones if you E.T @ 17/18 then Overlord. It comes down to whether this 4th roach can make or break your push, because you'll be supply blocked (albeit with no larvae, so it's not that inefficient) for several seconds.

10 Spawning Pool
10 Double Extractor Trick
12 Extractor > +2
11 Overlord
12 Roach Warren
11 Roach[3]


This is the kind of response I like to see .

Thanks for trying to improve things. I wasn't worrying about getting an extra drone or three because I was thinking my larva are being used as quickly as they are built. Since it's an all-in, I didnt see any reason to try to mine more.

Perhaps I -should- do this, because once a queen pops you could seriously send in a big wave with a larva pop .


Another thing you could do with the extra drone version is transition to zerglings more effectively. It seems like this early roach warren couldn't take full advantage of larva injections from a queen since you don't have enough harvesters, but without the queen a zergling transition leaves you with a slightly weaker army overall. OTOH, you could pull guys off gas when your queen is done, inject, and make a larger stream of zerglings to take advantage of a large crack in your opponent's wall. It'd be a nice surprise for an opponent managing to kite with a marauder or stalker or two.
Dont Panic
Profile Joined October 2010
United States194 Posts
November 01 2010 21:35 GMT
#65
This is ridiculously easy to stop I just faced it today. Once you get a stalker its you can kite everything down. I saw the battle.net forums and winced when i saw players saying it was unbeatable lol. Players just need to be more solid and have better control because it eliminates the million possible strategies such as this one.
I am order. I am logic. I know exactly who I am.
CuttyFlam
Profile Joined April 2010
Belgium523 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-01 21:41:04
November 01 2010 21:40 GMT
#66
On November 02 2010 06:35 Dont Panic wrote:
This is ridiculously easy to stop I just faced it today. Once you get a stalker its you can kite everything down. I saw the battle.net forums and winced when i saw players saying it was unbeatable lol. Players just need to be more solid and have better control because it eliminates the million possible strategies such as this one.



Yep, this is indeed true.

But all in all its a nice cheese to try out and have some fun with, but even if you win against players who are a lot higher ranked than you , it certainly will not make you a better player, that is for sure .
Leave it to ................... Luck!!
quillian
Profile Joined April 2010
United States318 Posts
November 01 2010 21:56 GMT
#67
On November 02 2010 05:26 Phrencys wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2010 23:34 Ncinerate wrote:
So, here's the build order:
9 Spawning Pool
10 Extractor (build this when you reach 100 minerals EXACTLY, so mine a bit with all 10 drones BEFORE you build the extractor)
9 Overlord
9 Roach Warren

This is a very interesting BO. However a quick run into Haploid's optimizer showed me that you can get a similar timing with 2 more drones if you do a double extractor trick after the spawning pool.

DET BO: http://haploid.nl/sc2/build_order/?buildOrder=10 Spawning Pool
10 Double Extractor Trick
12 Extractor > +2
11 Overlord
11 Roach Warren
10 Roach[3]&strictMode

10 Spawning Pool
10 Double Extractor Trick
12 Extractor > +2
11 Overlord
11 Roach Warren
10 Roach[3]

These 2 drones are certainly worth the 5-6 additional seconds it takes for your roaches to spawn IMO. Another interesting fact is that you can then either go with 2 or 3 drones on gas and still get the 3roaches down.

Having 8 drones on minerals instead of 6 is HUGE. This should allow you to eventually get a queen, so I would probably stick with 2 drones on gas and then switch to 3 when the queen is queued.

Definitely going to give this a shot tonight. Thanks again for sharing.

Edit: you can squeeze in another drone while building your RW, however this will force you to immediately OL after the 3 roaches because you'll be at 17/18. That is, unless you pull-off another extractor trick. According to the optimizer, your 4th Roach will then come about 10sec later than your 3 initial ones if you E.T @ 17/18 then Overlord. It comes down to whether this 4th roach can make or break your push, because you'll be supply blocked (albeit with no larvae, so it's not that inefficient) for several seconds.

10 Spawning Pool
10 Double Extractor Trick
12 Extractor > +2
11 Overlord
12 Roach Warren
11 Roach[3]


you can also slip in a queen, though it delays your roaches by 7 seconds.
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
November 02 2010 01:13 GMT
#68
lol it sounds hilariously awesome, and ill definitely try this

any maps u find its no good on?
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
November 02 2010 01:22 GMT
#69
Gave this a go versus T and P in my gold league paddling pool this evening, and it was just embarrassing. I felt obliged to apologise in chat after each game, and point them to this thread for scouting/countering tips. Only loss was to a Terran who happened to send out a marine at just the right time to catch my roaches leaving the base, and dropped a bunker at his ramp with a couple of marauders in it. Even then, things might have worked out differently if I'd had the overlord for vision as recommended by the OP (Out of habit I sent it to the other side of the base on Xel'Naga caverns so it wouldn't get sniped).

Closest game other than that was versus a Protoss who got a lot of Zealots and a Sentry and did a really good job of splitting my early forces and surrounding with probes/zealots. I had to wait for reinforcements before pushing in and ending the game. I felt particularly bad winning that one because his control was much better than mine.

First impressions are that this is a really, really punishing build if your opponent tries to go even slightly tech/econ without an early scout. It's also moronically easy to pull off, so I think we can expect a lot of zerg bubbling up into plat/diamond with it.

Personally, I'm never doing it again. I'd rather go 1/5 practising my macro than 5/0 with this.
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
Zozo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil2579 Posts
November 02 2010 01:24 GMT
#70
Someone just tried this on me on SoW, I scouted after depot and was very easy to defend. I suggest doing this in LT/DQ
EGM guides me
Moonling
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States987 Posts
November 02 2010 01:52 GMT
#71
I like this and am having some success though it is cheese it is somewhat viable i like it better than a 6 pool
1% of koreans control 99% of starcraft winnings. #occupykorea.
Keki
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia26 Posts
November 02 2010 02:16 GMT
#72
I used this on a zerg player and won
But it was probably a low diamond/plat
700 Diamond SEA/ Plat NA Zerg - Check out my blog - http://starcraft2cake.blogspot.com
raybasto
Profile Joined April 2010
United States151 Posts
November 02 2010 02:20 GMT
#73
If you want to play gimmicky, play as Terran or Toss
SDRB - Mid/High Master Level Zerg || Follow me at Twitch.tv/RayBasto and @RaymondBasto
Evoslayer
Profile Joined October 2010
United States43 Posts
November 02 2010 02:36 GMT
#74
Yeah I would say the protoss counter to this is cannons, its all in and one or two cannons behind a zealot wall would block upwards of 5 roaches once warp gate finishes your basically done
Clane07226
Profile Joined September 2010
United States72 Posts
November 02 2010 02:56 GMT
#75
I cannot beat this.

I am a Gold level player (so I realize im nothing special at all...), and have lost 3 games in a row due to this.

I have scouted it each time, the first time not knowing what was happening (lol @ me), and the second two making 2 and then 3 cannons at my ramp. The second two times I was able to hold the initial push, but I mis-timed the counter attacks, and it felt like those two cannons should have been stalkers or zelots + sentries.

Can a zerg player who is familiar with this enlighten me as to when you would be most vulnerable to a counter? is it right after I hold the push? what if the roaches just retreat when they see cannons... macro up? The problem with macroing up is that the zerg can contain me until i get WG and decent amount of stalkers, so he has pleanty of time to make up the drone count or expand...

anyway, help would be appreciated.

thanks!
NecronNN
Sidus
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada6 Posts
November 02 2010 03:11 GMT
#76
Haploid's calculator is currently bugged with respect to extractor tricks, the double extractor trick including the drones seems to cost the same as a single extractor trick (which in turn seems not to return 19 minerals) which makes a double extractor trick look way more attractive than it really is.
butidigress
Profile Joined March 2008
United States36 Posts
November 02 2010 03:17 GMT
#77
On November 02 2010 11:56 Clane07226 wrote:

Can a zerg player who is familiar with this enlighten me as to when you would be most vulnerable to a counter? is it right after I hold the push? what if the roaches just retreat when they see cannons... macro up? The problem with macroing up is that the zerg can contain me until i get WG and decent amount of stalkers, so he has pleanty of time to make up the drone count or expand...



There is no problem with macroing up. If his early push fails, your economy is way ahead of his, and once you have a decent amount of stalkers you can push out and end the game.
between the click of the light and the start of the dream ...
.Carnage
Profile Joined August 2010
United States99 Posts
November 02 2010 03:26 GMT
#78
This build is a coin flip like every other cheese. Replays of a win against a good player is a good example but anyone can lose to cheese. Just look at how fruitdealer 6pooled ogsinca on a crossmap kulas/LT spawn (i forget which)
He's just not the fastest zergling in the control group. -DayJ
DomiNater
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States527 Posts
November 02 2010 05:18 GMT
#79
There seems to be quite a few people testing this out in custom games right now. I just went on to practice this on SOW in a custom and I had 2 zergs disconnect once the countdown timer started. Once they saw the mirror they dc. lol
After I captured the elephant in the room, swept her under the rug for the hell of it... I welcome you to the melting through, of a planet that was selfish in its development of a healthy view.
DreamSailor
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada433 Posts
November 02 2010 05:20 GMT
#80
[image loading]

Here is a replay of this being used against me, and it failed.

It was really friggen scary though, excellent early pressure, very hard for Protoss to deal with this kind of thing.
Where ever you go, there you are.
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