|
Against archon zealot in that replay you posted, and I'm sure if you watched the replay you see where you could improve your creep spread and scouting. I think you should really trust hydralisks and broodlords a lot more. They do a lot better in the choke heavy maps, and mixed with broodlords + Infestors or Roach + Infestor.. well, it even sounds like a really strong combination. I also find that when floating lots of minerals, it's good to wall off and prepare escape routes and attack paths much like terran and protoss players do.
Even when you lost your ultralisk army, I find that morphing hydralisks after they've morphed all of their HTs into archons are a lot more effective than using your minerals on something that is practically hard countered by their army composition... right? Like, ultralisk just doesn't seem like the right thing to build against archon, zeal, stalker, especially when you don't have chokes that are working in your favor. Against colossus builds ultra seem better, but archons just do so much damage behind the wall of zealots, while blink stalkers hurt them so much more than they can hurt hydras.
When you're maxed and just trying to have more bases than the protoss, it's worth it to spend the part of the 3000 you're floating while maxed out on a few lines of crawlers and block off parts of the map like terran and protoss do, as it buys you more time to use nydus and backstabs. Plus I find it almost necessary to use these sort of techniques when they have a lot of high templar.
I think in that replay that ultralisks were just the wrong choice of unit vs stalker archon and you would've been better off with creep all over your half of the map and actually using hydra + infestor with lings for backstabs and possibly earlier broodlords over ultralisks. Infestor is seriously your most cost effective unit in attack and retreat positions, plus for probe harass. so... use'em more.
Like, the only reason you lost your main was because you didn't have the bottom path accounted for, and slightly better late game scouting would've helped that a lot. Your early game was really strong, but I think once you become more confident in late game with more patience and scouting, you'll see some vast improvements in your late win rate vs protoss. I think your attack was very panicked looking and you lost such an expensive army by moving into a position where you were trapped with no escape route in that game. I didn't think you'd lost any advantages until that point in the game.
Plus you kinda left a game where your enemy had 0 econ and you had the opportunity to fight back. Looked like frustration with late game..
|
on tier 2 get spire and roach speed, harass with muta but dont overcommit, dont show your roaches(overseer required) as soon as yo spot an observer snipe it with mutas and add infestor to prevent blink later on, good postioning and fungaling in the right moment brings you the win
so:
-get mapcontrol with mutas (about 10)
-invest gas in infestor/roach and minerals into flanking lings
-kill observers
you could invest in neural parasite but when he overcommits colossus ur mutas should clean up without neural parasite
im only ~500 diamond but playing constantly against 1300-1500
|
Doesnt fungal block blink nowadays? (maybe it used to and now doesn't but i seem to remember it being changed) Seeing as blink seems to be the key here without which protoss' game can be torn apart.
|
Going to assume first of all that you did not take excessive econ damage from harass,since that is avoidable.
Did i go robo? If so, pump a round of muta after my 2nd colossus if you have not seen stargate, or have not seen phoenixes running around. Harass my economy and colossus if possible with it. Continue expanding and what not depending on your planned timings of course, while doing this.
If I went colossus/immortal with stalker, I have more than 1 robo. Probably I have 2. Now this will depend on how late we are talking about. If it is late enough, if you get infestors for neural on colossus + fungal on stalkers and have broodlord/ling, it will be difficult. Just make sure my stalkers can't blink out and you keep controlling my colossus, surround with lings, kill stalkers with broodlord, when stalkers are dead I'll be in danger since colossus are slow as hell and I can't rebuild them quickly or cheaply. Have the colossus target my stalkers which are stuck of course.
If earlier, I don't know, it really depends on the timing. Just know that dual robo is not cheap, and neither are robo units. So, just don't freak out and you can probably hold it and make it to late game. Sorry I am not of much exact help here ;x. Will watch replay later when I have time.
1933 protoss btw.
|
oops fail meant to edit not quote ~_~
|
Mid-diamond protoss
Muta harass just wins on Shakuras. Stalkers are stupidly ineffective at killing mutas since they only deal bonus damage vs. armored, and even with blink you still can't kill enough of them if Zerg makes plenty. I've seen zerg make 40 mutalisks in one of my games, and with the bounce attack they just kill 6 stalkers in one hit.
Also, i've never been able to beat a zerg when he gets tier 3 units. Whether it's broods or ultras. Toss needs amazing micro to fight against ultras on open ground, and plenty of colossi. Most likely there will not be many immortals at all, since the robo bay(s) will be making colossi constantly, so ultras won't be countered very quickly
|
First of all a lategame straight up battle vs protoss is indeed very hard to beat. If the protoss scouts well and has the proper lategame ball (which is indeed one of the two you posted basically) it's very hard to win a army clash if you don't get proper positioning.
As zerg there are imo 3 things important to make sure you don't just get overrun in the lategame:
- keep the protoss guessing quite long what unit combination you are heading into. Mostly zerg go muta/ling into ultra or hydra/roach. However early on it's still quite easy for zerg to switch between these, for example opening muta/ling with only some muta's to switch into hydra/roach works quite well. It usually delays colossi by a lot (as muta opening usually forces blink stalkers, phoenixes etc.) and you have a spire for corruptors already. Likewise a roach opening can easily switch into muta/ling, just get armor upgrade first which is the better one against protoss anyway.
- Try to be economically ahead in the midgame. Muta/ling and hydra/roach are both quite good for getting an expansion advantage as they are easy to get compared to their protoss counters. PvZ is still a bit like sc1 imo, Z needs about 1.5 base for every P base.
- Try to keep small fights as much as possible by trading armies or fighting on multiple fronts. The zerg army can easily by split up whereas the protoss army can't. Sentries and colossi are not that strong in small armies so forcing the P to defend and move alot works really well. If you are using muta/ling you have speed anyway, if you use hydra/roach you really need drops or be economically even more ahead.
|
1800 random player, theres two types of situations I look at ZvP before I try to make any analysis on how the game should have gone.
Did he pressure, or did he FE himself?
If they try and put on early pressure your creep spread is your biggest concern. Getting a defense as far away from your main/natural (Map dependent), is your best chance if you are expecting to stay in the game and he isn't going all in. Obviously as zerg, at around the 12 minute mark you want to be taking your third. Think like that next time you play.
If they FE (and this is the situation I find hardest to deal with), scouting A LOT becomes more important than almost everything else you're doing in the game. Spread OVs all over his base (If they go for a forge/FE they aren't going to have stalkers for awhile, just pay attention to the time on their cybo.)
Either way, from what I've found best as zerg is a good mix of roach/zergling/ultra or roach/hydra/broodlord is the best possible solution. I like mutas though, however if you see a twilight council don't waste your time. I think the trick with zerg is trying to be, for a lack of a better terms, everywhere at once. What I mean is zerg has the most mobile army in the game, use that to your advantage. Nydus networks are very powerful when used correctly.
Don't forget, even against P, banelings tear mineral lines up, don't be afraid to ovie bomb some expos.
|
United States313 Posts
Protoss perspective, so a little more theory than experience, but I think an interesting discussion none the less.
From your detailed OP you do seem to be struggling with Blink stalkers and colossi primarily, both of which as shammy mentioned above can be taken care of with infestors. 2 colossi with range costs 850 gas, and the timing for infestors mid game shouldn't be too hard assuming your opponent isn't 1 basing. In fact infestors seem like a solid response to every protoss aggressive opening outside of 4gate; they destroy high phoenix counts with fungal growth (granted you'll need a spore crawler and a queen or two to finish them off), they can NP colossi, and depending on the timing could NP immortals if you got NP fast ish, and lastly both blink stalkers and charge zealots are restricted by FG allowing lings to destroy stalkers or roaches / any ranged unit to attack the zealots freely. Like I said I'm protoss so I'm sure there are plenty of holes that would need to be worked out with an infestation pit after lair opening, but it even sets you up for a fast hive if you only use the infestors to delay (harass burrowed with infested terran style?). Granted FG can't be counted on for damage quite like the other matchups because of shields, but in situations where you are either delaying or definitely engaging it still has significant impact. Gas heavy so this would obviously have to go with ling or roach depending on zealot vs stalker/immortal count, I'm curious to see how this would do, anyone interested in trying let me know.
I suppose this doesn't really help your late game, sorry for that, you probably have a good, well refined opening and mid game, but its an interesting idea and certainly pretains to the late game trouble you've been having. Stopping any mid game play efficiently with infestors allows you to counter their next tech, most likely meaning throw down a spire as they go HT for feedback. I would not necessarily advise adding infestors to your late game army if they already have storm, unless its storm + colossi or you think you can NP and storm his own army quickly/reliably enough. Against blink stalker heavy compositions though FG is probably the best zerg response avaliable, other than having the economy to pump out a massive wave of ultralisks. Corrupters recent buff should also make the spire look a little more appetizing than it already was, they can now directly counter 2 of Protoss's tier 3 techs, and they no longer have to watch out for feedback.
Hope this helps =)
|
In SC1, basically if zerg and protoss on equal in econ/macro ability protoss will win. Sort of why the whole 1 base up logic comes from. Zerg and protoss must be 1 base up on terran to be "equal" And Zerg must 1 base up from protoss to be on equal grounds. Im well aware the 2 games are different, however their are some similarities.
From my PVZ late game experience if i hit late game full steam, little or no effective harassment / delay of tech/ expo, Im usually confident of a win. Nothing zerg can throw at me can take my ball down with such efficiency that i cant recover from. (
Let a protoss hit lategame with great econ and your in for a hell of a game(or at least better econ than you). The zergs that beat me late game, are the ones that harass me enough to weaken my late game, whether its nexus snipe, muta harass, overseer tech delay, early roach pressure. Sometimes all of these. Delaying protosses nexus, at least once, muta harass and cause him to either loose probes or pull them, either way good. Dont over commit to an harass trying to finish me and lose units because that just evens it right back up.
The way i see it zerg has to hit lategame with more econ/macro potential (steam) to grind away at protoss(aside from maybe a drop over my gateways and killing them all in which case, no matter my econ i cant reproduce units and keep up with zerg as we skirmish). Drop an expo, kill stray zealots with mutas, rarely will a late game zerg deal me a Killing blow that i cant recover from, but he cuts me down here, prevents a needed expo, drops forcing me to move army, etc, and sort of soften me up until i know its over and I GG, or they out macro me. You cant really go head to head with 200 vs 200 army Z v P in most cases, you want to constantly whittle his army so he doesnt have a solid 200 ball. Also before protoss get his 200 ball at which point the ball can deal with almost anything you have, before this point as zerg you can uniquely hard tech switch. You can be say during mid game, have a heavy zergling composition which will cause protoss to have zealots. Then as you harass, poke and prod within 1 mutas build time you can have 6-8 mutas and snipe probes, some stray templars and so on. You can REALLY abuse the protoss's unit composition against them. If your roach heavy initially - protoss reacts stalkers, then in 30 secs you can have a good number of zerglings + roachs vs pure stalkers. Even these in themselves are more early/mid game techniques but they will add up. If you can melt 1 squad of stalkers, even if protoss survives it puts him behind, since he has to rebuild his stalker count and invest in other gas units. Abuse your ability to dynamically change your unit composition.
I see it the same way in PVT, protoss sort of need to throw units at terran somewhat especially in a zealot heavy build, while terran tries to grow their army ball to a point where it melts most things Protoss can throw at it(more early/mid game). As protoss when playing terran, having the econ advantage(translate to more macro potential) seems to be key. And even then unless the advantage is huge, it wont in in itself give you the win. I throw my army at a terran expo, losing alot of zealots trying to conserve stalkers / HT / colossus/ immortal whatever your tech path is. Terran tries to micro and conserve units, while as toss i feel i try to minimize his ability to micro away, and unit trade but maintain an economic advantage. Again in this Matchup, lategame, protoss usually wont 1 killing GG blow, but this killshot comes after a series of exchanges where protoss comes out on top and gains the ability to make more tech units. Once you come out on top enough times(whether you do a even unit trade but expo in the process, or you efficient kill his units) you will gain a large enough advantage tech wise or unit wise to actually finish them. I guess the mechanics are a bit different since protoss late game is strong(equal or better than terrans) so its basically whoever has the better econ and control will win. neither side really has to have a clear econ advantage to win IMO. Meaning a lategame protoss could win say protss 3/4 base vs 4/5 base terran once you have hit 200/200 because protoss units trade fairly well with terran units lategame. WIth Zerg if the protoss player is ahead in econ or both players are near equal, and both players are at 200/200 i dont feel the zerg can win.
If Zerg and Protoss are on equal footing protoss is ahead. This is why zergs like to have at least 1 more hatch than protoss, to have that economic advantage since unit for unit protoss sort of edges out, especially late game. You need mess up his early/mid game so that once you hit lategame you will be at 100% and him only at 80%. So although your looking for lategame advice, im sure there are alot of things your could do in your early/midgame to weaken the toss late game.
|
im constantly winning my pvz´s currently, and im a 1800 point diamond protoss.
the key to win vs toss is a good harrass i think...... a well played muta harrass is really hard to counter. and im not even playing collossi very often... currently i always make an fe into blinkstalkers out of 4-6 gates. then watch what the zerg do... if he goes for mass muta i add storm... if he does mass hydra, i add collossi or storm.. depends on how i fell :D
if he goes roach heavy, i add some immortals and chargelots+stalkers and np.
if he gets ultras.. immortals/chargslots/stalkers just counter them quite well... sometimes i add archons... if i got a good econ in lategame there is really nothing what can kill me.
really the only games i lose are the ones, where i get really hard muta harrassed, while the zerg is expanding the whole map^^ and he outmacros me then.
|
Like the OP I thought hydras were out of the question and I also felt like I hit a wall against protoss in mid-diamond. Now for me at least hydras have become the key, they crush gateway armies (minus high templar) so easily I feel that they are essential for this matchup. This is if the protoss is being very aggressive while macroing in the early/mid game which is every game for me. The problem I was having is that trying to fend off early 4 gate with roaches/lings was causing too many losses and the protoss was always able to out produce me on workers while keeping the pressure on at the same time. Instead with a mix of ling/roach/hydra, using an appropriate mix of roaches to kite/tank his number of zealots and an appropriate mix of lings to tank stalkers meanwhile the hydras snipe sentries and shred everything else. You really only need 6-10 of them, keep them in the back and keep them safe, treat them as defensive unites. This will force him to either lay off the pressure or trash his units meanwhile giving you the opportunity to out macro him. Lots of other things help in this matchup, but i think that mid game defensive hydras are very important to hold off gateway pressure and allow you to stay +1 base over the protoss.
|
On October 25 2010 18:17 skindzer wrote:
Theres no combination of unit that i can produce thatn can comfortably beat the Protoss ball, an after 3 bases the P can pretty much equal the Zerg production constantly so trying to simplify our armies so i can outproduce him an overrun his army/bases is out of the question.
Also, backstabbing becomes harder because in the best of cases youll only have creep up to the middle of the map.
Yes protoss units are more cost efficient than yours. Duh.
Also Protoss will NEVER EVER be able to match Zergs production capabilities. Just macro better and stay ahead on bases. Backstabbing has almost nothing to do with creep. The only unit that is suitable for backstabs is (late game) speedlings. They are dirt cheap and can easily put a big dent into the P economy.
|
@ trueredemption.
I agree infestors are quite good vs protoss actually and should definately be used more. Especially with roach/hydra armies getting infestors to counter colossi is in my opinion better then corruptors. NP works quite well vs colossi if you can keep your infestors somewhat safe which is much easier since FG stops blink and roaches have more range now.
Also infested terrans are hugely underrated. They are actually quite decent against a colossus/stalker ball. Spew some of the eggs in the mid of their army any they soak a fair bit of damage or do a fair bit of damage. With missile attack upgrades affecting both roach/hydra and the infested terrans they actually do quite some respectable damage.. (1 infested terran does about 65% dmg of a hydra!).
Infestors are a terribly underrated unit imo, they are just as easy to access as corruptors if you dont have spire already and fit much better with a roach/hydra army.
Spire = 200m 200g and 100 secs to build.
Then 40 secs for corruptors which then take 45 secs to 'activate' their corruption ability.
So at the fastests you have corruptors after 140 secs with corruption at 185.
Infestation pit + neural parasite = 250m 250g and 160 secs (50 for pit, 110 for NP).
Infestors take 50 secs but can be made while researching NP and also gain energy then while NP is researching.
So at the fastest you can have infestors ready to NP after 160 secs.
Spire also allows muta's which isn't too usefull at that point in the game if you started with roach/hydra imo as the toss will likely have blink stalkers already with possibly some upgrades. Infestation pit allows hive tech, which is fairly usefull for getting ultra's quickly.
Main thing why I think infestors > corruptors against colossi if you use hydra/roach is that they are just more versatile. Corruptors can be ignored, ie. protoss lets his colossi die (while doing lots of damage to hydra's first) and then simply switches to immortal + stalker which is very good vs hydra/roach as well, especially later on as immortals benefit from upgrades really well (the armor ignores zerg upgrades). Broodlords are too sucky and take too long to get too (greater spire takes way too long and needing infestation pit for hive sucks as well if you have spire). Infestors are just so much more usefull all around as they can help stop blink harass and do stuff when the colossi are dead, whereas corruptors are just dead weight then.
|
1930 Diamond Zerg here.
Late game ZvP is hard, but I feel like it can be in zerg favor if you play the early/midgame correctly.
Clearly you should thumbs down Steppes and Delta Quadrant, no zerg in their right mind would include those in the ladder map pool. It's a tough choice between Lost Temple and Jungle Basin. I have been thumbing down LT because, close positions, it's so hard to defend against early pressure and thor/tank drops on the ledge are just so strong.
In terms of economic strategy for late game, zerg needs to drone whore during the early and mid game until we reach roughly 90 drones (16 drones for minerals, 6 for gas per base = 22 per base, ideal is 88 drones for 4 bases). With three or four bases fully running and 3 queens (that's all I can manage to handle), you should have a lot of income and enough hatcheries for production (I usually produce an extra hatch in base and an extra hatch at natural around 80 and 160 supply respectively). Creep should of course occupy as much of the map as possible (I always do early creep tumor to make sure this happen).
With 88 drones and (3x2= six supply worth of queens), you should have 106 supply worth of army units. The key to late game zerg is to keep productively using up this army. Doom drop his main, snipe an expansion with cracklings, Trade armies with protoss when you can, and keep him to two or three bases. Your main goal is to prevent him from maxing and pushing out. Zerg can reproduce armies and tech switch faster than toss, so trading armies (even at small cost effectiveness disadvantage to zerg) is beneficial for the Swarm, especially because zerg should have income advantage.
In terms of unit composition, muta/ling is exteremly strong in mid game and you can literally should keep building more mutas into late game untill you have a 3/3 death fleet. IF he goes phonexis, one fungal growth + muta ball with decimate the phonexis. If you opt for hydra/roach play in mid game, hydras beat everything except templars and colloasus. If you see lots of these units, go roach heavy. Late game, you can throw in ultras. IF he goes archon or zlot heavy in response to ultars though, switch back to hydras.
Honestly the key is being aggressive with your army once you max. If you keep the toss off his toes, below max supply, prevent him from pushing on you, and at 3 bases or below when you have 4 bases or more, the game will eventually end in your favor.
|
Up and coming 1700 Diamond Zerg:
This is the late game match-up I have the most trouble with. I won't rehash what people have said about muta tech switches and ultras/roachs/lings whatever.
I will say that, while it sounds stupid and naturally intuitive, just don't let the game run that long. 80% of my ZvP games are over before they get 3 bases. To get mass Collosi or HT's, he is going to need a lot of gas. He is going to either be on 2 bases for a long time, in which you should have at least 4. Or he needs to be on three bases, which should be a flashing light that you should attack.
Unless he is rushing to get mass collosi in which case Mutas would be the obvious option (he'll have not a lot of stalkers), you can generally tell the timing of his robo.
Think of it this way: You FE, he gets gateway units and does a 3 gate push. You hold it off and he expos. Right now in the game, you would have some lings, roaches, and hydras. Pump roaches and hydras and try to end it right there. Bypass the whole mass robo ball before he can get it.
|
On October 25 2010 22:58 Thor1104 wrote:
1930 Diamond Zerg here.
Late game ZvP is hard, but I feel like it can be in zerg favor if you play the early/midgame correctly.
Clearly you should thumbs down Steppes and Delta Quadrant, no zerg in their right mind would include those in the ladder map pool. It's a tough choice between Lost Temple and Jungle Basin. I have been thumbing down LT because, close positions, it's so hard to defend against early pressure and thor/tank drops on the ledge are just so strong.
In terms of economic strategy for late game, zerg needs to drone whore during the early and mid game until we reach roughly 90 drones (16 drones for minerals, 6 for gas per base = 22 per base, ideal is 88 drones for 4 bases). With three or four bases fully running and 3 queens (that's all I can manage to handle), you should have a lot of income and enough hatcheries for production (I usually produce an extra hatch in base and an extra hatch at natural around 80 and 160 supply respectively). Creep should of course occupy as much of the map as possible (I always do early creep tumor to make sure this happen).
With 88 drones and (3x2= six supply worth of queens), you should have 106 supply worth of army units. The key to late game zerg is to keep productively using up this army. Doom drop his main, snipe an expansion with cracklings, Trade armies with protoss when you can, and keep him to two or three bases. Your main goal is to prevent him from maxing and pushing out. Zerg can reproduce armies and tech switch faster than toss, so trading armies (even at small cost effectiveness disadvantage to zerg) is beneficial for the Swarm, especially because zerg should have income advantage.
In terms of unit composition, muta/ling is exteremly strong in mid game and you can literally should keep building more mutas into late game untill you have a 3/3 death fleet. IF he goes phonexis, one fungal growth + muta ball with decimate the phonexis. If you opt for hydra/roach play in mid game, hydras beat everything except templars and colloasus. If you see lots of these units, go roach heavy. Late game, you can throw in ultras. IF he goes archon or zlot heavy in response to ultars though, switch back to hydras.
Honestly the key is being aggressive with your army once you max. If you keep the toss off his toes, below max supply, prevent him from pushing on you, and at 3 bases or below when you have 4 bases or more, the game will eventually end in your favor.
I wouldn't really advise going that muta heavy. Muta's are a great opener and can continue to be good against players who don't get the proper counters but mass muta isn't that hard to beat. Protoss can just defend with stalkers and phoenix and then push with zealot/stalker/phoenix/archon. No way those muta's will do much in battle, even if you have FG as stalker/phoenix/archon combined mutilates it. If you focus so much on muta upgrades you are likely to be behind in ground upgrades and you know how hard lings get owned if they don't have as many armor ups as toss has attack ups.
Muta play is good but mass upgrading it and continuing to make it regardless of protoss answers is a nono, no matter what backup units they never will be really effective for actual combat.
|
2100+ Toss user here.
Usually, you dont want to fight with Protoss' fully loaded ball of death head on.
But there are many ways to solve this.
Constantly trading off your army with his (while expanding) before protoss meets the Critical tech mass is one way.
The other way, easier way, is to go for the elimination game. This is frequently seen on pro games lately. By the end of the game, you should be spread out through-out the map and basically, as he comes far away from his base, you try to kill him faster. You still pump out units from all over but never fight with his army (will be just waste).
However, this may not work in small maps, eg. steppes.
|
I always lose to ultras. Stalkers/zealots and colossi dont have the DPS to deal with them, and the protoss will have to switch to immortals, which are then eaten alive by zerglings mixed in with the ultras.
Fungal growth the protoss ball, then surround with ultras. Also, keep sniping colossi with corruptors, and actually make use of corruption.
|
The hardest thing for newer zergs (and new players to RTS games in general) is the concept of aggressive expansions.
If you are on equal bases with a protoss, generally speaking in the early to mid game, you have to be the aggressor. You cannot sit there and let them mass up a well rounded ball of units and just march forwards as you aim to get in a good position. Once toss reaches a clean transition into high tech units, zerg units lose about 60% of their cost effectiveness (Things like 4-5 colossi with range, 6-7 templar with storms, archons, heavy pheonix count, etc).
As a zerg player you have to take advantage of a early toss by exploiting what they don't have, and thats anything besides gateway units. I highly recommend players using Hydras at least for a mid game pressure situation (hydras are a pretty smooth transition into roach/ling/ultra as well).
What I meant by aggressive expanding is, if the protoss won't come to you, you go to him. As zerg it is most important to constantly be trading units with your opponent, because again once the death ball of units comes its almost impossible to stop.
From what I've seen while playing ZvP, there are a few ways to put pressure on early to make their transition into mid/late game and more importantly tech units, a lot more bumpy.
Banelings work wonders, honestly they aren't only good against Terran. Banelings are like helions, once you have them out, they make your opponent paranoid, always checking every corner of their base looking for a nydus/hidden zerglings/overlords, etc. What effect does this have? It can shake up your opponent, force more stalkers then needed, or it can make them forget their tech timings.
Hydralisks are IN-CREDIBLE for mid game pushes, not so much late game, but when its about 12-15 minutes into a game, these are a golden unit to possess. They don't have the mobility of mutalisks, but a well rounded gateway/immortal army will fall very quickly to a well numbered hydralisk army. And since you have the pressure on the protoss, you have the room to expand.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
