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[Mid-High Diamond] How do you win Late Game ZvP? - Page 6
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Br3ezy
United States720 Posts
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Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo
Germany2959 Posts
On November 14 2010 07:42 BreAKmYBank wrote: ultralisks Where do these people come from? For gods sake stop such nonsense. @ OP I'm a 2400 Diamond Zerg and well it's kinda impossible to beat a Toss Army in the very late game cost effectively. I mean just the value of a Zealots compared to 4 Lings at this point of the game is so much higher. I especially have huge troubles against Immortals, Archons, HTs and Zealots. Well and forcefields of course. Late game I always want Ultralisks to even have a chance of engaging a battle without having have your army blocked off but... Immortals and Zealots just do soooo well cost-wise against Ultralisks it's not even funny. And it's not like Stalker or Archons would do bad against them, they're pretty strong too. If you then consider that the Toss can also add in Air oder HTs you'll quickly realize that you're in deep trouble. I'm having so huge problems myself I don't even know what advice to give. I'd say never let them get 3 bases as 5 bases for you will only be a minor advantage duo to a too high worker count cutting into your already less cost-effective army... but. There's really no way to engage a Toss using canons and Sentries to prevent you from attacking. And the problem is, you always have to be prepared for an attack and thus can't just immediately tech to Ultras / Broodlords or Drone up hard. And unless you spot their observers he'll know your unit composition perfectly ;P So I guess I'll suggest you always try to win the game with a Roach, Hydra few Corrupters army by trading armies when you got 2 and he only 1 base. Depends a lot on the map though. Works best on Caverns imo. | ||
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
On November 14 2010 09:39 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: Where do these people come from? For gods sake stop such nonsense. @ OP I'm a 2400 Diamond Zerg and well it's kinda impossible to beat a Toss Army in the very late game cost effectively. I mean just the value of a Zealots compared to 4 Lings at this point of the game is so much higher. I especially have huge troubles against Immortals, Archons, HTs and Zealots. Well and forcefields of course. Late game I always want Ultralisks to even have a chance of engaging a battle without having have your army blocked off but... Immortals and Zealots just do soooo well cost-wise against Ultralisks it's not even funny. And it's not like Stalker or Archons would do bad against them, they're pretty strong too. If you then consider that the Toss can also add in Air oder HTs you'll quickly realize that you're in deep trouble. I'm having so huge problems myself I don't even know what advice to give. I'd say never let them get 3 bases as 5 bases for you will only be a minor advantage duo to a too high worker count cutting into your already less cost-effective army... but. There's really no way to engage a Toss using canons and Sentries to prevent you from attacking. And the problem is, you always have to be prepared for an attack and thus can't just immediately tech to Ultras / Broodlords or Drone up hard. And unless you spot their observers he'll know your unit composition perfectly ;P So I guess I'll suggest you always try to win the game with a Roach, Hydra few Corrupters army by trading armies when you got 2 and he only 1 base. Depends a lot on the map though. Works best on Caverns imo. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=167126 You can instantly remove all zealots, sentries and HTs from his army like this. Then your 2/2 or 3/3 lings can clean up the rest.  Seriously HT isn't a problem if you drop banelings onto them lol. | ||
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SnOwBaLL.
United States17 Posts
If they have a stalker/sentry/colossus type of army get a few infestors mid game. Ling/infestor into ultras will decimate his ball. Fungal Growth will stop all kiting, and once your ultras get into the fray, you will win. Use Neural Parasite in the mid game if they have 3 or less colossi. If the P has a Zealot/HT/sentry/archon type of build, you should honestly get banelings. Banelings are not used often in ZvP, but they do insane damage to everything in that army besides archons. A Ling/Roach/Bling build will destroy this. As mentioned before, a transition into mass mutas will destroy most P armies. The best defense late game for mass muta is an archon/HT/zealot build and just killing your base. Anything else will crumble. Mass phoenix can work, but then you can exploit the P ground weakness with mass lings/hydras. | ||
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aquanda
United States477 Posts
A good toss will scout your ling muta with hallucinations and delay robo while he spams cost effective gateway units and denies any significant muta harass. A switch to roach/hydra will reduce your map contol to nil and put you behind on attack upgrades (he'll be 2-1 pretty quick to your at best 0-2). You'll have a delayed hive and no where near enough gas for ultras. I haven't been able to find a way to avoid getting totally abused by pro ff usage or stop the toss from taking his natural for free (ff and building placement makes roach/ling attacks early game pointless). I usually enter the mid game on even ground with a toss with no real way to attack if he slowly takes his 3rd while adjusting his army comp to mine. I'm a 2100 Zerg and right now zvp is my worst matchup vs competent players. | ||
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ERGO
United States168 Posts
Ultras AND broodlords is hard to deal with, blink stalkers can't really get in there without totally dying to ultralisks. Blink makes them very clumped and very +to armored splashable. Then, once neither player is maxed, you remax with roaches and don't let the protoss max again, and keep piling on roaches. 3/3 roaches vs 3/3 stalkers is much better for the roaches than 0/0 roach vs 0/0 stalker is, as the stalkers are still dealing the same damage once armor is taken into account, but the roaches are dealing more. The only reason you don't do roaches all the way is because they cost 2 supply, but as long as he can't get capped with his super gas heavy composition that doesn't matter. | ||
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413X
Sweden203 Posts
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chip789
Canada199 Posts
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friscosav
United States71 Posts
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UniQ.eu
Sweden82 Posts
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ikarigendo
United States99 Posts
- make sure you have a lot of larva and resources banked (make extra hatches if necessary) - when your armies clash, make sure to take out one of his capabilities (for example, take out his anti-air) - rebuild instantly with a tech switch - overwhelm his now one-dimensional army I saw Idra do this once -- he took out the stalkers and templars, then tech switched to mutas and totally cleaned up. I've tried it myself in late game (diamond) a couple times and it worked both times. Alternately, you could take out the collosi and templars and then overwhelm with ground troops. | ||
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
slings/roaches to fend off the 4 gate or variation thereof. hydras + roaches for a 2base timing push when i see an expo go down. hydras are so misused. they fucking demolish a toss army that isnt properly controlled. yes even collosi if there arent enough gateway meatshields, 12ish hydras +2 attack 2 shot a collosus. this has been ending games right here. i go into the game with this as my plan and start getting carapace and ranged upgrades asap. i attack when +2 ranged finishes, ill either have +1 or+2 carapace at this point. if this attack fails then its time to regroup and consider a tech switch. the reason i started experimenting with this strat is that most toss i play tend to go semi-all in with their first attack (whatever it may be, 4 gate, 3 gate robo, stargate). if i fend off the attack and manage to hold onto most of my drones and my expo then i am usually at a big advantage. i push this by droning up a bit more and then exploding with roaches/hydras. if the toss expos he is dead. if he is massing for another push then u will have enough to fend it off, and the game will be over if he is on 1 base. the way it generally ends is the toss expansion is just starting to ramp up production. there are 3-5 cannons at the choke, less then 15 total gateway units, and 2 maybe 3 collosi. 20 roaches +15 hydras will win u the game at this point. if his units are out of position or he isnt paying attention he will be crippled before he even knows what happened. hydra dps is insane. obviously this build wont counter everything toss could throw at u, but for the normal 1 base attacks that toss do this works well. 1400 diamond for what its worth. | ||
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uberdeluxe
Canada306 Posts
bling drops are super effective and I don't see why more people aren't utilising them. 4-6 banelings can kill most of a mineral line, and your only loosing 200/100. Another thing I've been experimenting with is burrow, 9/10 times when a protoss goes to kill a far off expansion they wont bring detection and you can just burrow all your drones and queen, then backstab them. Even with these sorts of unorthodox strategies, i still don't win lategame very much... Anyone else been trying this sort of stuff? *edit* seems like massive numbers of hive tech units is the only answer, but the transition period is a long and extremely painful one... | ||
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lemonbone
Hong Kong154 Posts
Also, protoss in late game can really harass you everywhere with warp prisms, so make sure you keep you expo safe. | ||
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whoopadeedoo
United States427 Posts
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eth3n
718 Posts
If you are superfancy I guess you could try NP as well, but as its utility is highly situational (luck dependent), generally using FG is enough. Not trying to say this is your only problem as there is a lot of other decent advice here, but just curious. | ||
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bacoatc
El Salvador26 Posts
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AsherSC
United States30 Posts
On September 18 2012 20:29 bacoatc wrote: my prefer composition to late game is infestor broodlords because u can deal with any composition of protoss is really important range attack upgrade im top diamond Why did you bump this? This thread is from 2010 and back then Diamond was the highest league. Modlock please. | ||
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gronnelg
Norway354 Posts
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