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You cannot get away with mindlessly a-moving your armies anymore and tanks are almost a necessity early on. Marauders are also a nice option since you will have atleast one tech lab barracks. I personally like hellion because the factory you make is going to sit on its duff otherwise after an initial run of tanks. With tanks you want to spread your marines out around them and have a small group running around the edge of siege range being annoying. With hellions, you want to drag the zerg army out of position and kite his units. With marauders, you want them to take baneling hits. Medivacs aren't bad though I don't experiment with them enough. Maybe an early run of tanks + medivacs + a raven would work better. I don't know but drops are indeed very good.
I suppose it comes down to preference unit composition wise. Tactics and over all strategy wise, one of the things that is very useful to do is just clear out creep tumors. Fly over with your marines and ravens to feint a push onto the creep but instead take out a bunch of tumors and withdraw. Turrets are also pretty good for mass creep erasing.
There are many reasons to target creep that I won't go into but suffice to say, creep becomes a major advantage for zerg if you let it be. Its not usually the big line of creep to your base. Its more often the creep not directly going towards you that kills you (they let Zerg flank really well) so deal with it. Creep on many maps also allows zerg to take and defend their third. One many maps that aren't lost temple, the creep has to go towards you and then to the third base. On these maps, its really easy to eat away at that exposed creep so it becomes harder for zerg to maintain map control.
You'll also generally want to control the middle areas of the map and force engagements close to zerg and farther from you. If you are engaging near zerg, they can't expand as easily but you can expand much easier. If you ultra fail, it is harder for zerg to counter you. If he goes for mutas, it becomes extremely risky for him to fly his muta to harass you. If you saw the Flash vs Jaedong MSL with PowerOutage, you'll know what I'm talking about. If you kill creep, this becomes easier. The map itself is really telling as to who is winning. Generally you want to contest map control with zerg the whole game.
My general gameplan from observing the numerous replays is:
Early Game - Force 1 round of lings early with 5 Marine Push, try to snipe Ovie. This is basically a free timing that's guaranteed to turn out well for Terran.
5:00 - 10:00 - Zerg has map control because he maxes production off 2 base faster, defend expo and build army. Watch out for some sort of bust. However if Zerg is kneecapped, then push out with a stim + upgrade timing attack to win game.
10:00 - 15:00 - Macro potential off 2 base maximized. Put pressure on zerg and try to make his third a money hole(costs more to hold than it makes money). Look to take potential third if Zerg's third really gets up and running.
15:00+ - Deny creep, deny extra bases, take extra bases preferably near zerg with Pforts. Try to push up to natural and turret contain.
20:00 - 30:00 - If this strategy works then Zerg runs out of money, win game.
Generally works best on big maps (gogo GSL map pool) with a third that is towards you or very small maps with exposed expos.
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I've watched more Pokebunny replays, and one thing I notice is constant aggression, constant upgrading, not forgetting to expand and just keeping the pressure/trade up. After some waves the zerg just crumples.
So I guess, if I can do that, I can win?
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Don't forget to macro like a fiend.
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ASM I might have a little cheesey TvZ for you if you would like a few reps and a run down.
It's a reactor hellion harass into reactor viking -> marine tank viking medic scv push around 10 minute. If all goes well, a small bunker harass 3 min, hellion harass 5 min, viking harass OLs and drones and queens (Vikings rape queens on the ground) run, repair, pull scvs, and rush all in.
I even worked out one where I put a CC in base after I 1-1-1 very effectively
Opens up a very good leg to stand on, with 3 reactors to land raxes on, and 1-1-1 ready with an expo.
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On February 04 2011 11:40 iAmJeffReY wrote:
ASM I might have a little cheesey TvZ for you if you would like a few reps and a run down.
It's a reactor hellion harass into reactor viking -> marine tank viking medic scv push around 10 minute. If all goes well, a small bunker harass 3 min, hellion harass 5 min, viking harass OLs and drones and queens (Vikings rape queens on the ground) run, repair, pull scvs, and rush all in.
I even worked out one where I put a CC in base after I 1-1-1 very effectively
Opens up a very good leg to stand on, with 3 reactors to land raxes on, and 1-1-1 ready with an expo.
Sure, go for it - it sounds like the stove except with hellions :D. Anyone should feel free to PM me with silliness. 
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There's a shitload of pages in this thread and I just saw it now.
I've wanted to try out marine raven since beta but never really got around to researching it, so I'm glad you wrote this up.
Sorry if it was mentioned already (which it probably has since there's 35 pages), but have you considered getting a ghost or two to EMP infestors if he adds them to his army? Does it hinder your gas for ravens too much? Possibly get a couple late-game when you already have a nice sized raven cloud?
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You should try to solve problems with what you have instead of what would be nice.
The main issue with ghosts is they are incredibly expensive and micro intensive. Remember APM and attention are resources. If you think a mineral/gas/APM/attention intensive unit is worth the ability in game then go for it. I frankly just get enough tanks or bleed enough gas out of Zerg to deal with it. See Marine/Medivac style (See the JP & Friends with LzGamer).
The alternative is to make your army kill everything to death so they can't afford to make a whole ton of infestors because they'd like die horribly. Blue Hellions are quite good in this mix because Zerg won't be able to throw gasless zerglings at you in a economic way. You can additionally wound his econ on more open map in such a way he can't make infestors effectively as well.
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Antisocialmunky,if lets say there is an engagement in the zerg's 4th, with a ling/baneling/muta army vs my rine/raven,is it better to place turrets or use HSM instead?
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On February 04 2011 12:14 thoradycus wrote:
Antisocialmunky,if lets say there is an engagement in the zerg's 4th, with a ling/baneling/muta army vs my rine/raven,is it better to place turrets or use HSM instead?
I cannot really answer that. Its very situation dependent though I can say that HSM would definitely go onto the banelings. As a general rule of thumb, turrets go down before and after battle, PDD and HSM go down during battle. The way I play is to crawl in with turrets before the marines go in though. If It is that late and I'm still not dead, then I'll have like 20 ravens and hilarity ensues with HSM spam.
Like I said, it is highly situation dependent.
Hopefully I have a Third up and running because I don't want to deal with the 10 instant ultralisks on 2 base :-p.
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What can you do when Zergs plant multiple macro hatches and just overwhelm you with massive ling bling numbers?
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This is where is becomes difficult. If he goes 2 base, and plants a third hatch in base to try and kill you. You're going to have to get tanks. You'll need factory units if he tries to do that sort of bust. You'll want atleast two levels of barracks/factory walls for his blings to break through.
Replays would be nice.
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Baneling Splitting Tricks with Diagrams
Coming Soon
- Hide Spoiler -
^^^
pissed me off
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Does anyone still want that?
I'll make it if enough people still need it.
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I decided to stop trying to make this work at least for now. Because I have far bigger problems such as macro, scouting, keeping creep controlled and positioning mistakes. Until I feel comfortable with the race, I will try to play some variations of Tank/Marine. When I feel like I'm decent, I will definitely try this build again.
In any case, I wanna thank you Antisocialmonkey for creating the build and answering my boring questions
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On February 05 2011 23:47 icclown wrote:
Baneling Splitting Tricks with Diagrams
Coming Soon
- Hide Spoiler -
^^^
pissed me off
yeah I'm still checking for it once in a while. Nice thread btw. I think this style of play will become more used on the bigger maps that are supposed to be played on tournaments. It gives you more moveability
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Alright, I'll try and get that thing started then, I'll post a separate thread and link from here..
I'm designing a game right now so bear with me :-p
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im starting to really like ravens, tho today i tried to add tanks from single factory the whole game and i must say it was better than pure MM raven, they help so greatly vs blings
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On February 05 2011 23:47 icclown wrote:
Baneling Splitting Tricks with Diagrams
Coming Soon
- Hide Spoiler -
^^^
pissed me off
Does anyone have some ideas as to what they might be? I've been doing this exclusively in TvZ for a few weeks now after seeing this thread, and I've yet to "split" banelings with ravens.
Also, thanks for the tread. My TvZ would look nothing like it does if not for it 
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Here's a replay of a Masters game in SEA. Please give me your thoughts on this guys, I'm still not completely sure how do you optimally use this build. What i try to do basicly is to deny the Zerg of a 3rd base and outmacro him.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-187753.jpg)
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On February 09 2011 18:29 Opalcard wrote:Here's a replay of a Masters game in SEA. Please give me your thoughts on this guys, I'm still not completely sure how do you optimally use this build. What i try to do basicly is to deny the Zerg of a 3rd base and outmacro him.
Trying to deny the zerg a Third Expansion on most of the current maps is pretty much what the general gameplan for me is. Sometimes you can't because the map attack lanes are just not so good for it. (Blistering Sands is 'okay' for denying a third/Long Diagonal Distances on Metal aren't so great if you are pushing the close attack lane)
I could tell you weren't very comfortable with it and didn't really know what to do with the Ravens. So here are some things you might want to do:
1) If you go Ravens you need to get energy atleast. If you don't then the Ravens need to sit around too long for energy. You should also consider HSM since Zerg armies generally do not have AA and nuking baneling clumps is quite delicious. Also, it is quite good as a deterrent vs Muta unless the Muta dive in. If they dive in then you can nuke them quite easily.
2) I would personally keep ravens with my army to support your pushes (turret crawl). Turret crawling is a lot like the bunker crawling you did except faster. You can do the thing where you have your ravens operating separately but I find it really risky. It just depends on if you want to do a strong push or do harassment
3) Given the way you play, you should do the variant where you get tanks and medivacs while making Ravens out of only one port. Its more suited for slower styles of play and seems to fair much better against more competent zergs. You can look at KME's replays to get an idea how this is done. Get medivac energy since you won't be pumping out of a reactor port. Its slower and feels more standard. It is basically like standard marine/tank without as many tanks.
Hope that helps. Don't forget to repair your Pforts.
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EPT
