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Awesome, thanks for the feedback.
To be honest I have never considered doing a turret crawl. I've always assumed the Ravens' role were to simply harass the base/take down key tech structures. The reason I did a turret crawl was because of the map Scrap Station. The 2nd expo is at the centre of the map so I just guessed that having bunkers there would be a good investment anyways.
As for tanks, I can't seem to get enough resources to support a constant tank production as I'm already struggling with just Ravens, Medivacs, Marines and double upgrades.
Again, appreciate the advises, will take them into consideration for future games.
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Hiho,
Since I'm new to TL, I don't really know if I can post this replay here. It's me against a terran, I'd like to know what could I have done. I have encounter a mass raven use.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-189186.jpg)
(Sorry if my english is bad!)
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On February 07 2011 04:15 PredY wrote:
im starting to really like ravens, tho today i tried to add tanks from single factory the whole game and i must say it was better than pure MM raven, they help so greatly vs blings
Yeah i've noticed that 1 fact making tanks and 1 star-port making Ravens with Medic-marine Support is really good in the mid to l8 game. The Raven really helps tame the Muta ball without having to go Thor. Also if you get a cloud you can spam HSM like a mad man an kill his whole army. This style feels very BW esq where Terran you add Sci's.
As for Marine-Raven it is more rewarding if you have killer micro similar to SK Terran. With MMR you have to be able to Marine Split and have sick control with your Raven. Multi Tasking is also essential, attacking and dropping all over the map. MMR is also more Mobile then MMTR.
I'm hoping to see NaDa go Marine Raven 
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I want to experiment with Hellions first with a 2nd factory for Tanks. A large reactored blue Hellion ball basically forces roaches which is guarantee gas usage by zerg (unlike bling). Another plus is you will be able to get something to contest map control after ling speed. Then you swap to tanks later on to counter infestors.
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People still having success with this?
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So I have read through this thread and bit, and haven't found anyone saying what a legitimate strategy for zerg to combat this. So I have to ask as I have been utterly destroyed by this build a few times, what as a zerg player can I do to fight this?
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I really want to get good with this style, I'm switching to Terran for at least a while, anyone have any VODs or replays that are more recent/relevant than the ones in the OP or know any players who have used this before in a high level tourny?
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HSM doesn't work past a certain level in tvz anymore; all the HSM based strategies died out after the nerf in beta. that leaves mass ravens to fight hydras, which no one ever uses in zvt, and mutas, where your gas is better spent on tanks and thors to be able to actually kill anything.
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On April 18 2011 05:44 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
I really want to get good with this style, I'm switching to Terran for at least a while, anyone have any VODs or replays that are more recent/relevant than the ones in the OP or know any players who have used this before in a high level tourny?
You should try one of the mass marine based builds like the marine/medivac build if you are bouncing around everything. This build will get you far but it won't work that well at the top. However, the FE openings are still quite valid, mass marine + X builds are still strong when played properly, and mass Ravens spamming turrets will still win games.
LZgamer on Mr.Bitter's 12 week with the pros has a good episode detailing the 'in your face with marine' builds.
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@rauk
Oh, forgot about that nerf =O
@Antisocialmunky
Ok thanks xD
Darn, I was hoping this was a build I could use and get to high masters with partly due to its rareness 
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On April 18 2011 08:53 Antisocialmunky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 05:44 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
I really want to get good with this style, I'm switching to Terran for at least a while, anyone have any VODs or replays that are more recent/relevant than the ones in the OP or know any players who have used this before in a high level tourny? You should try one of the mass marine based builds like the marine/medivac build if you are bouncing around everything. This build will get you far but it won't work that well at the top. However, the FE openings are still quite valid, mass marine + X builds are still strong when played properly, and mass Ravens spamming turrets will still win games. LZgamer on Mr.Bitter's 12 week with the pros has a good episode detailing the 'in your face with marine' builds.
I've actually been doing a 3tank + stim timing push in tvz, and expanding behind it. Even on 2 factories I end up with a lot of gas, which lets me alternate building ravens and medivacs from 1 starport.
I end up setting up a contain outside his base with tanks + rines + missile turrets. Once I get the ravens out there I will lay down a PDD, then pull the ravens back. PDD's last 180s, 240s with upgrade, which means I can drop one on my tanks and turrets, then move the raven to safety. The PDD's are critical for preventing mutas from sniping tanks while your marines are running from banelings. It may not seem like much, but 1-2 PDD's is a massive difference from getting tanks sniped. You end up not having to build as many tanks, which means more gas for upgrades and more ravens.
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On April 18 2011 09:07 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:@rauk Oh, forgot about that nerf =O @Antisocialmunky Ok thanks xD Darn, I was hoping this was a build I could use and get to high masters with partly due to its rareness
Well, let me put it this way: Mass raven works and the mass marine openings segway extremely nicely into it. However, you need to be able to crank out enough Ravens in such a way you don't die in the mid-game.
I think the correct way would be to do some sort of marine/tank play with emphasis on the marines which is a more Korean thing. Foreigners tend to play more static with 3 fact off 2 base (Jinro vs Idra on Terminus). A good example of this is Boxer vs Sen from TSL where Boxer had only 2 fact and was trading marines and tanks attritionally to gain position rather than trying to set up a slow crawl. So you do this right and stay in zerg's face so zerg can't muta harass you (the easiest way to counter mutas is force the mutas to defend constant pushes). Only switch to a more static and heavy tank centric force if infestors come out.
The configuration should be something like 9 rax equivalent + 2 Fact + 1 Port.
Then take a relatively fast third and add one port with a tech lab because you'll probably start running low on your mineral patches but your geysers should have a fair amount of gas. Then start massing Ravens late game and start relying on taking position with mass +2 armor, +1 range turret spam instead of only tanks (you'll still want tanks but you can cut down on tanks if you have a labrynth of turrets). You'll also want marauders to deal with ultras.
Don't let anyone fool you, you get mass ravens for mass turrets, not HSM or PDD though a PDD will nullify medium sized muta flocks and a HSM will make things run away.
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Aw, but HSM is so fun Heheh
Ok, thanks for clearing that up! I'll try working on this style next... after I get my TvP and TvT figured out xD
Didn't realize that little part about the foreigner vs korean style of aggression vs defense
And yeah HSM seems like it really should have a buff -.-; may be the turrets, although they are very fun, should be nerfed a bit so that HSM will be more useful xD (125 energy for 100 AOE damage isn't much unless may be you use one to kill like 30 banelings)
thanks again!
Oh and so for turrets, you use them primarily (besides harassment) like normal turrets (built by scvs) for pushing and etc.?
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Outstanding build... even if it isn't as good as marine tank, I don't care. It's extremely fun, and I hate marine tank.
Here's a 30 mins game where the zerg ends with "lolterran"
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-206201.jpg)
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On April 24 2011 15:14 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Aw, but HSM is so fun Heheh Ok, thanks for clearing that up! I'll try working on this style next... after I get my TvP and TvT figured out xD Didn't realize that little part about the foreigner vs korean style of aggression vs defense And yeah HSM seems like it really should have a buff -.-; may be the turrets, although they are very fun, should be nerfed a bit so that HSM will be more useful xD (125 energy for 100 AOE damage isn't much unless may be you use one to kill like 30 banelings) thanks again! Oh and so for turrets, you use them primarily (besides harassment) like normal turrets (built by scvs) for pushing and etc.?
Sorry, I did not see the reply.
Well, I saw it in Boxer vs Sen and remembered that I've seen Koreans play that way a few times before. I shouldn't say its the Korean style, that is incorrect but I've only really seen it from Koreans. Maybe someone else can correct me on that.
Yeah, the only thing HSM is actually really good at is nuking banelings and making mutas fly away.
I slow crawl turrets towards zerg. Turrets have more range than people expect (6) so you end up with interlocking auto turret fields of fire. You can throw them down on creep so you crawl your turret field towards zerg and force them to engage it. You can run marines in and out of the turret field and use the turret field to funnel units into tank splash. Turrets in minerals is also quite devastating on maps with close air distance (as in ridiculous).
Throw down PDD and HSM if they try and push break with a muta ball into your marines and tanks.
@Covenants - I'll look at that when I have some time.
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@Antisocialmunky
Thanks again
Ahh yeah, I guess when you reach a "Critical" point (even 10) of Ravens the energy will replenish fast enough for you to keep like 40 turrets down at once... especially since each one lasts a few minutes xD. Ok now that I think of it, that looks entirely broken =O
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Yeah your gonna need like NaDa APM to pull this off. Also the issue with the raven compared to the sci Vessel is the Speed and HSM Energy/Range. Every HSP is a suicide mission since range is 6 and you cant get away quickly. Also Each Raven is limited to 1 seeker missle even at full energy.
Raven is good though, but just adding a Thor is better.
-_- why do you hate Ravens Blizzard
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Like I said, HSM is meh unless you lob one at a committed zerg attack, turret push is your real power if you can get enough Ravens.
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this SK style takes way too much execution too pull off. Without tanks, marines are gonna get runned down by banelings so easily and there really isnt much we can do other than reducing the damage by splits or something. Seeker missle is one option but it just cost way too much energy, making it only a limited time.
Its a fun build but i dont think its as good as tank marine combo. However this SK style can work very very well if u go super harass style with medivacs and raven turrents very often, forcing zerg to split, with constant denying of 3rd. But this takes alot of execution to make it roflstomp zerg.
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I want the marine splitting guide ;(
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EPT
