EPT
[G]TvZ Marine/Raven - Page 33
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kosai
20 Posts
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dslyecix
Canada37 Posts
Has there been success transitioning from the 4OC opener into marine raven? Or is it better to stick to the openings presented initially in this thread? They both are/sound so fun that I'm kinda sad they are both for zerg. This makes two interesting ways to play TvZ but leaves TvP feeling kind of boring to me :p | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
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Bibbit
Canada5377 Posts
You can support a max of 600 min/minute and about 250 gas/minute off 1 base. That is 5 rax and 1 SP so you should end up with 8-10 rax and 2 SP off 2 bases. This is like the most helpful thing I've ever read on this site. :/ For some reason I've never been able to kick sc1 mentality and would make 6 barracks, 2 starports, and then wonder why I had 8 million money. But its funny because I could have easily just looked a replay and realized I was making pretty constantly out of my barracks and still being rich. :/ | ||
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
i always go mass raven against zerg but in a somewhat different fashion bunker block or ebay marines into 2 siege expand into PF + bunkers stop @ ~20 marines 2-3 sieges 4 ravens out of 2 starports follow with vikingks reasearch building armor have fun this is a replay against the only decent counter i had, mass raven still worked nice, too bad i suck @ multtasking and i eventually lost. the rest of zerg mass raven are so one sided its not worth it. the only counter i expect to stomp me is a fast ultra response. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/121081-1v1-terran-zerg-metalopolis | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On December 28 2010 06:41 Bibbit wrote: This is like the most helpful thing I've ever read on this site. :/ For some reason I've never been able to kick sc1 mentality and would make 6 barracks, 2 starports, and then wonder why I had 8 million money. But its funny because I could have easily just looked a replay and realized I was making pretty constantly out of my barracks and still being rich. :/ It is actually closer to 900/240. Its about 120 per geyser and a maxed out base is close to 900. However you need about 300 of that to comfortably build SCVs and depots. So cutting SCVs (~200 min/min) gains you a huge amount of income. | ||
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Tortfeasor
United States14 Posts
On December 28 2010 21:48 danielsan wrote: your build is kind of strange, nothing like i expected. it's more like mass marines into few ravens to seal the deal since in 3 of the replays i've watched you severely outmacroed your zerg opponent from start. you couldve followed it with basically any wacky unit your heart desired. 10 to 15 harvesters over a zerg that's ..... i always go mass raven against zerg but in a somewhat different fashion bunker block or ebay marines into 2 siege expand into PF + bunkers stop @ ~20 marines 2-3 sieges 4 ravens out of 2 starports follow with vikingks reasearch building armor have fun this is a replay against the only decent counter i had, mass raven still worked nice, too bad i suck @ multtasking and i eventually lost. the rest of zerg mass raven are so one sided its not worth it. the only counter i expect to stomp me is a fast ultra response. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/121081-1v1-terran-zerg-metalopolis Your replay had me cringing. You could have won that game 3 or 4 times before the zerg started to kill your expos. I don't understand why you didn't just push out with your tanks and marines and win the game after you killed his 3rd and 4th twice. I also dont understand why you left all of your tanks in your main after your main AND natural were totally mined out. TL:DR The zerg did not have a decent counter and played almost as badly as you. You lost to hydras when you had tanks AND ravens. Shame on you. You did a good job of stifling the zerg's econ but you squandered your lead several times by letting the zerg rebuild. You can't just win games by harassing, at some point you HAVE to go for the killing blow. Mass ultra is good against marine/raven, especially if you don't upgrade your marines and don't get tanks. Hydra's *should* get roflraped by raven/marine/tank. | ||
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simian_sc
United States91 Posts
Simian vs Rocco | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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Komsa
United States99 Posts
Enjoy: http://www.mediafire.com/?44je2e4kom9bllp | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On December 31 2010 01:41 simian_sc wrote: Hey Antisocialmunky. Thank you for posting this build. I really appreciate it. I started trying it out in TvZ a few days ago and its working well. I'm having a bit of trouble in games that go later. I was hoping you could tell me what I am doing wrong. Here is a replay with a prime example. Thanks again! Simian vs Rocco That was pretty cool. What rank are you? The main reason you lost was you are like me and tend to stick on 2 base for too long. You should have thrown down an expansion with one of your big pushes but didn't. It was a strange game with very few banelings... Generally against lings, you should be trying to make your units into a giant blob when they get spread out. Also, work on your macro, it threw your attack timings and left you without that late game raven cloud. You should have had more than you had since you weren't producing tanks. On December 31 2010 09:09 Komsa wrote: Having some fun with the rine/raven composition. Not a build order showcase, but still crushing a 2.1k+ Zerg. Enjoy: http://www.mediafire.com/?44je2e4kom9bllp 2 Rax Banshee Feint is best Banshee Feint :D You can actually get your 2 ports up faster if you double gas and cut marines. | ||
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simian_sc
United States91 Posts
On December 31 2010 23:38 Antisocialmunky wrote: That was pretty cool. What rank are you? The main reason you lost was you are like me and tend to stick on 2 base for too long. You should have thrown down an expansion with one of your big pushes but didn't. It was a strange game with very few banelings... Generally against lings, you should be trying to make your units into a giant blob when they get spread out. Also, work on your macro, it threw your attack timings and left you without that late game raven cloud. You should have had more than you had since you weren't producing tanks. Awesome. Thanks for the advice! I'm platinum rank 1 with about 2200 points. Pretty close to ranking up to diamond I think. I know my macro needs work. But I guess my only other question would be, in late game like that with his mass of ultras and mutas, whats a cloud of Ravens gonna do? Just spam turret and HSM? | ||
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Komsa
United States99 Posts
The title reads rine/rav right? The idea is to play in such a way that allows that composition to thrive. If you wondering about counters you're missing the point. Now onto some fundamentals, and some early mistakes that lead to an inhospitable environment for rine/ran --> He tried to hit you with some lings. So your first push/threat has already been accounted for. No need to move out with the first 5. Regardless, keep your initial rine threats grouped tightly. Lead your pushes with an scv (looking for banelings or masses). He over reacted severely to your first attack, so your 2nd threat wasn't needed either, in other words it already did it's job just by way of your opponent playing badly. The moment you had 5 SCV's queued up on each CC should tell you need to box about 5 SCV and spam 5 barracks ;] walling your natural (great against ultra)! You ravens coulda came out much sooner as well if you subtract your queuing. Lastly, focus firing that hatch with nothing around was pointless. You army will auto attack anything in range, no need to force them to act stupidly. Just walk them near that makes it a wall to help your marines too if they get attacked. That was the death nail homey. Just imagine your attack at 15:44 if that previous attack did a worthy trade. | ||
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simian_sc
United States91 Posts
On January 01 2011 03:02 Komsa wrote: If he has Ultra + Muta, then the rine/rav strategy has already broken down. It's not the nature of mass marine/ravine to fight a zerg on those kinda terms. Quite frankly if he had that combo, you're execution before hand is what lost you the game. Worry about what rine/rav does against ulta/muta is wasting your time. The title reads rine/rav right? The idea is to play in such a way that allows that composition to thrive. If you wondering about counters you're missing the point. Now onto some fundamentals, and some early mistakes that lead to an inhospitable environment for rine/ran --> He tried to hit you with some lings. So your first push/threat has already been accounted for. No need to move out with the first 5. Regardless, keep your initial rine threats grouped tightly. Lead your pushes with an scv (looking for banelings or masses). He over reacted severely to your first attack, so your 2nd threat wasn't needed either, in other words it already did it's job just by way of your opponent playing badly. The moment you had 5 SCV's queued up on each CC should tell you need to box about 5 SCV and spam 5 barracks ;] walling your natural (great against ultra)! You ravens coulda came out much sooner as well if you subtract your queuing. Lastly, focus firing that hatch with nothing around was pointless. You army will auto attack anything in range, no need to force them to act stupidly. Just walk them near that makes it a wall to help your marines too if they get attacked. That was the death nail homey. Just imagine your attack at 15:44 if that previous attack did a worthy trade. Cool thanks for the pointers. So are you saying if he gets to that kind of end game (mass ultra) then the rine/raven strat has failed? As in, its designed to beat him mid game? I mean, I know in the OP he talks about gearing up your biggest attack around the time he takes his 3rd. But does that mean if I can't kill him by then its GG? | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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wowzer
United States3 Posts
Finally, I always use auto turrets against the enemy drone lines but is hsm effective for quick in and out permanent damage. I have also talked with EGLzGaMeR about the build and he thought with a bit of rearranging it could be quite effective even at the highest levels of play. | ||
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wowzer
United States3 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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LostFaction
Portugal80 Posts
This is my current build along with ravens. Basically its a hellion opening -> teching to siege tank and stim -> get ravens theand seeker missile +/- at the time he gets mutas. Ravens deal the mutas, and marines/tanks deal with grund. My macro seems alot broke, and i would like to hear your opinions, thoughts. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/122851-1v1-terran-zerg-metalopolis | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
I mean once Zerg gets a ball of banelings with ling and muta support, unless you can siege up a sufficient amounts of tanks at a really good position (and hope that those lightning speed lings don't make it to the tanks, which they do) I can't really see how it is possible to engage Zerg in an even foot on ground. 8-10 Helions in frontlines might devastate that ling force, and leave room for your tanks to blow banelings, but just in theory. Zerg sees everything with creep, and not only that, creep gives speed, and with mutalisks taking control of air and map, you don't get to engage Zerg without him knowing anything about it. Once he sees you, he only needs to send the ling/bling ball once your tanks are in an awkward position, and it is GG. A smart Zerg, will never directly confront your sieged tanks without Ultra or Broodlord Support unless he's desperate or severely outnumbers the Terran army. In comparison, I watch some Flash vs. Jaedong matches from Youtube, (btw it is a really great rivalry and those players are so awesome to watch, they are like Federer vs. Nadal of SC as far as I can understand), and the matchup looks much more fun.Banelings are much more deadlier to Terran army than Lurker as far as I can understand. True, Lurkers also decimate infantry, but the Zerg also needs to position them well, while in SC2, Zerg just selects banelings, clicks 1-a, and there you go, unless Terran has godly marine micro or a ball of siege tanks blowing banelings to pieces before they get to your marines, you can say farewell to your marines and watch Mutas clean everything up. As far as I can see from BW, TvZ is just interesting...marines can die fast, but they are not that hopeless against Lurkers as SC2 Marines are against Banelings. It's just so easier compared to positioning Lurkers. My tone sounds like I'm whining, but I am actually just a Zerg player trying out Terran. I made it to Diamond as Zerg about two months ago, but now decided to play Terran. I'm now in Platinum, and boy, being on the other side, just sucks. I don't like shit like Bunker rushes or 2 rax all-in with scv shit, I just want to play a good, normal game. But Zerg spreads like cancer and it's just...so disheartening to feel so hopeless. Whenever I decide to make a push, Zerg comes with his ball before I can even react to siege my tanks and everything eveporates. If I have to go ridiculous all-in, or cheese everytime vs. Zerg, then I may just go back to playing Zerg before my ability diminishes too much since I don't enjoy cheesing. It may win you games yes, but I play the game for fun and cheese is much more riskier than a well-planned game. I feel like Terran players do not have the right ideas to combat Banelings. It is similar to how PvP is usually Colossus fest. But with Ravens, you get more options. This is why this build is so interesting: Two HSM can take out a ball of banelings before they get to your marines, and leave room for your marines to deal damage. They can do the same to Muta balls. Auto Turret fields, can help your tanks to get into position. Point Defense Drone, will nullify Muta shots. I think Ravens are the most underrated, underused unit in Terran arsenal, especially against Zerg. It would be brilliant if Ravens take the role of Science Vessels in SC2. | ||
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