Im a 1500 platinum (rank 1) zerg player, and the only match i cannot beat a protoss who goes fast pheonix. I have 5 mutas and like 6 hydras with a few roaches and decent amount of lings (cause he had z's stalkers) he cannoned him self up in the front so i went fast lair and got fast mutas but he had 2 pheonixs which destroyed my mutas
then i mainly went hydras but he got so many pheonixs and jsut lifted all my shit and just one shot my hydras.

anyone know best way to deal with a lot of pheonix?

Verst

United States22 Posts

October 23 2010 05:32 GMT

infestors with your hydras will rape the phoenixes pretty hard. If he's turtled up in his base just take more expansions. He won't fly those phoenixes once you start snaring em all the time. But ya mutas will just get shit on, get corruptors if you just really want spire tech.

sl10

Canada37 Posts

October 23 2010 05:41 GMT

get 3 queens to guard your OV's.4 if he really wants to go air heavy. teching hydra will get your stuff killed as they will tech into collosus. phoenixwerra [ i think, -- i forget] used muta/infestor in the GSL to counter air.

Adeeler

United Kingdom764 Posts

October 23 2010 05:46 GMT

In the GSL this happened and infestor + muta beat the phoenix providing you hit the phoenix clumped. Ofc hydra+infestor works too just have your creep spread so you can manoeuvre well to fungal the phoenix.

Usually the phoenix will come out early so expect them and have spare queens/spores appropriately and try to power through there harass replenishing ovies/queens appropriately. Extra hatch might be key here for larva concerns.

If you go for hydra try to make them all together at one hatch so you don't have them come out only 2-3 at a time for them to be lifted and picked off by the phoenix. Also with the spare queen/s transfuse to make the phoenix waste there mana.

You can also ignore the phoenix and power ground army also and counter cos they invested a lot to get the large number of them out.

obsid

United States389 Posts

October 23 2010 05:57 GMT

The most important part of fighting pheonix is infestesrs with fungal growth. You might want burrow, so they dont just snipe the infester (so unburrow and then FG right away). Then for your main army I think its very important to go muta with 1-2 corrupters OR hydra, but not both.

With the muta/corrupter combo. Corrupters are your tanks against the pheonix's as they do crap damage to them and the corrupters do fairly good damage (with corruption to help focus too), while the mutas mainly focus on killing them after a FG. Make sure you do NOT just run from phoenix, as they are faster and can shoot while moving. Instead you run till he starts to follow, then attack, as he turns to run, you run, untill you get a FG off, then you fuck him up and counter attack. Watch the GSL game for an example of this style.

The other style you keep lots of hydras, with infesters around. Make sure you get the infester energy upgrade and the hydra range upgrade. Initaly keep everything in one big group, so the hydras dont get sniped by the phoenix, but then split into about 2-3 gropus as your numbers grow, so you can cover each of your bases. If any of the phoenix get anywhere close to your base just FG, and then rip them to shreads with your hydras (you probably need 2 FG to kill the phenoix so be ready for the followup, dont let them get away). Right before you attack, get some roaches to tank for the hydras. Eventualy push out, with 1 spore at eacn base and about 4-5 queens for defense (so you can transfuse each other while the queens and the spores defened).

jHERO

China167 Posts

October 23 2010 06:02 GMT

umm, infestors + mutas will beat them, but it will be dependent on luck too

however, corrputor just owns phoneix hands down u can try it out

Enervate

United States1769 Posts

October 23 2010 06:13 GMT

Well if he has so many phoenixes that he can lift all of your army, you shouldn't be able to beat him. But to answer your question in general, at your level, you can probably afford to put down a couple of spore crawlers, and leave your overlords near them.

Hydras are good since he probably won't be able to switch to colossi quickly and hydras own gateway units. You really shouldn't be getting mutas if you see phoenixes.

obsid

United States389 Posts

October 23 2010 06:29 GMT

@Enervate: Someone should have told NEXSuhoshin that he shouldnt have won that first set in the GSL using muta vs pheonix: http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens2/vod/1180

ZomgTossRush

United States1041 Posts

October 23 2010 07:14 GMT

Replays, replays, replay.

Every build has a weakness.

Replay, and we can find it.

TeWy

France714 Posts

October 23 2010 07:29 GMT

#10

Hydralisks.
Then do a timing push that the Protoss can't counter because he wouldn't have enough gaz to make colossi. He most likely will have a bunch of ununpgraded zealots and a few stalkers/sentries. Then A-MOVE.

Shi

69 Posts

October 23 2010 07:33 GMT

#11

The window for a timing push is extremely small, and unless you have awesome creep spread it probably won't work that well. You'd also need at least 10-12 hydras so avoid getting them picked off by phoenixes.

Xog2

United States97 Posts

October 23 2010 07:33 GMT

#12

I find pheonix to be the only 1 base opener build that can survive against me, any 4 warp, 3 robo, 1 gate forge->cannon rush to gets shut down easily, and the following accounts a game completely in my favor as i transition into my choice of speedling baneling, roach speed timing attack, or mass mutalisk/speedling, depending on his expansion timing of course.

Greth

Belgium318 Posts

October 23 2010 14:42 GMT

#13

*snaps*

Phoenix ... PHOENIX . . . P H O E N I X.

*gasps*

IS IT THAT HARD!? If it is, just write Fenix ... Or Feeyonicks if you like to pronounce it like that.

Ok I'm done. Thanks.

iAmJeffReY

United States4262 Posts

October 23 2010 14:57 GMT

#14

Multiple queens, creep spread, a couple spore towers, and get overlord speed. I feel that could at least let you run them away to let the queens come cover up.

Plus, with added queens you can have a creep highway better than I-95. I imagine queen hydra/ling could be potent especially if they waste time and tech on phoenixes, (not really a waste I get that)

But, if it's just two as you said, queens. 3-4 queens total should be able to at least combat them away.

sylverfyre

United States8298 Posts

October 23 2010 16:14 GMT

#15

By showing us some replays.

Muta can beat phoenix if you don't let him get his phoenix numbers up - LegalMinD lost a GSL match phoenix vs muta (by being fucking terrible and a-moving phoenix+stalker into muta ball and then letting the phoenix die as they get there first.)

DJiGGs

Canada24 Posts

October 23 2010 22:55 GMT

#16

K ill post a reply.

http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/4631