|
Hey dudes,
i am wondering if theire are some known strategys for all 2n2 combos.
I would be very glad if u post them! I will update the post.
got an rep-pack:
[url blocked]
Combinations:
P/P:
+ Show Spoiler +
P/Z:
+ Show Spoiler +
#Zergling/Stalker for map control, play defensively and use surround with lings/blings. Expo and build. Or you can try 5RR/Stalker push, it's fairly potent.(banling bust against terran and run into his base)
#Fungal growth + Colossi. Fungal growthing an opponent's army and watching colossi burn them from a safe distance is one of the most satisfying things I've ever done in sc2. Obviously back yourself up with stalkers or hydras, plus zealots or lings.
P/T:
+ Show Spoiler +
#Marauder/marine/medivac Colossi/sentry/zealot... Protoss gateway units are just there for meatshield, and serve no purpose beyond that. Colossi do much better than tanks at DPS because they don't hurt your own units. This is good vs basically all combos of teams without a Terran. Dual Terrans, this is a definite no because Tank/Viking will eat this combo alive. Opponents with one Terran might pose some problem, but you can find ways to counter his Vikings (i.e. build your own!)
#fast 4 gate, feed gas to terran, and do raven/tank/rine + 4 gate push
T/Z:
+ Show Spoiler +
# reaper/ling harass agianst toss
T/T:
+ Show Spoiler +
Z/Z:
+ Show Spoiler +
|
|
|
2v2 is about adaptation, plus it's kinda hard also to prescribe a course of action without knowing the opponent's race as well. That said here are some decent openings:
P/T: Marauder/marine/medivac Colossi/sentry/zealot... Protoss gateway units are just there for meatshield, and serve no purpose beyond that. Colossi do much better than tanks at DPS because they don't hurt your own units. This is good vs basically all combos of teams without a Terran. Dual Terrans, this is a definite no because Tank/Viking will eat this combo alive. Opponents with one Terran might pose some problem, but you can find ways to counter his Vikings (i.e. build your own!)
P/Z: Zergling/Stalker for map control, play defensively and use surround with lings/blings. Expo and build. Or you can try 5RR/Stalker push, it's fairly potent.
T/Z: Banshee/Muta harass is really annoying and worth a shot. Forces opponent to stall and fear moving out, giving you time to outmacro via expansion. Transition to Broodlord/Viking/Tank/Roaches for ultimate devastation.
Conversely, early Bling/sling or Roach + MM push is probably one of the stronger ones in 2v2.
|
push 
|
this doesnt make sense because the strategy highly depends on the other races of the other team so there is a huge difference if you play ZZ against TT or PP for example
|
My "good" 2v2 team is PZ. Here's what we do:
4 gate + roach push into expand.
HTs to handle mass anything + Z harass (normally mutas but occasional blings)
Push with chargelot/HT/hydra/roach
Went 6-1 last night 
+ Show Spoiler +I'm tired of collosi in multiplayer. I'm convinced people just set up to blind counter them if they see protoss at this point.
|
From my experience in the lower levels, which is what you sound like you're in, here's what I've learned about your ENEMIES:
1. Double Zerg might mean double 6pool. Open with a wall anyways and then convert away if your scout proves this wrong. I do this for single Zergs as well in 1v1 - it's THAT prevalent.
2. The presence of even ONE Protoss might mean that the other partner will dump resources to him to make mass Void Rays - if you scout more than one Stargate this is that case, and you should push immediately - don't try to build up anti-air because it will fail (especially if you are Protoss, whose anti-air is still a little wanting).
3. If one or both players is Random, then be prepared for a rush of any kind. In lower levels Random players can't possibly be good at all three races because you can't possibly have built up enough knowledge and experience to be universally successful by then. If they don't rush then they've either gotten their good race or they simply will not be very good at an off-hand race. This applies in 1v1 too.
4. Always check the portraits to see how well a player is at their race. Doesn't always mean much but it is a clue. You may want to take out the better or worse player first in each match.
|
When I was playing with a partner we usually did the same build give or take.
Tz v pz
5 rax rine upgrading stim +1 attack
Mass slings into muta
Wed usually attack around 10 rines and follow up with stim/+1 rine
We were 35-17 top 20 diamond before we stopped playing together.
Against T
Again 5 rax rine into +1/stim
Sling/bling into muta.
If it failed we'd expand into rine/rauder/medi 1-2 tanks mass muta mass slings
I just play rt now though 1400 diamond rank 6 random/Zerg
I never 6-7 pool
|
PvZ
proxy reaper + 6 pool.
|
Try this, mothership with 40 scvs repairing it on auto repair, mass recall in their base, profit
|
this might sound like im crazy but tnz medivac hydra combo does shit tons of damage. Hydras does good dps at decent range but die like little bitches. With medivacs to heal they rape.
|
Hey, I am ryuzaki (see http://sc2ranks.com/team/3830578 , ~1700 Diamond), playing T in our TZ in ladder.
Shared bases (War Zone or even maps like Scorched Heaven):
Metal opening with tank works great against TP, PP, and sometimes even ZP teams. Terran blocks the ramp (OC opening with double gas, 1-2 factorys and making tanks asap), while Zerg techs to mutas (13-14 pool, makes some lings to take the Xel-Naga towers, also makes some spines if you see your opponent does a timing push). On maps like War Zone, Zerg can even expand (14 hatch 13pool or so), you both defend together against the push (Spines+Tanks, you just need to hold the allin attack).
As soon as Zerg gets mutas, he starts to harass, and T can take another expo, slowly adding more tanks and then +3-4 rax as soon as the expo kicks in. In case of phoenix harass, zergs do Hyds/Infestor and you push out together.
On maps like Arid Wastes:
Depends on the matchup:
TZ:
Rine spam+ 13 pool works great against TZ teams, since rines have more dps then maros and build up faster (10 supply, 12 rax, 15 oc, 15 2nd rax, 15 rine, means the scv that makes your 1st baracks builds the 2nd and the 3rd, start a new rax as soon as the last rax finishes. 4Rax without addons; Add gas at 22-26 supply, transition into Hellion/Medivac or heavy Rine/Maro). Zerg makes 10 pool (kind of all-in build) or 13 pool with banes.
Also works on some maps with shared bases, when the rush distance isn't that long
PZ:
Hard, OC opening with 2-3rax (1lab 1reactor) + 13pool with speedling/banes works good, but 4gate + 13pool is strong against that. Got no Clue. Rinespam sometimes works, but not always ^_^
TT/TP/PP:
Tanks do not work well since you can't defend both bases. Try a 2-3Rax with 2labs and 1 reactor. Against TT, Zerg can expand save, and transition into banes and infestors later. Abuse the Zerg mobility! Terran should tech up to medivacs soon.
Edit: ZZ:
Wallin, scout after 10supply (against 2x6pool; no OC and close wall against that), then 12rax 13 gas, OC, fax@100gas, reactor at rax@50 gas (after 2 rines normally), 2nd supply@ 17 or so. Reactor hellion, then +2rax Maro if one zerg goes roach, or more hellions if they try to bane/speedling rush your ally. Your ally often have to 10pool just to be save against 2x6pool and build 1-2 spines. He also spams lings and banes, often thats enough to kill one of the zergs and its gg^^
Play like TvZ in 1v1 (rines/medivac/thor vs speedling/muta)
|
Good thread, while I have to agree that in 2's, like 1's, you have to adapt. The thing about teams is you have many more options on combos, and you can focus on a specific unit/tech/strategy more efficiently than you can in solo, because you can get your teammate(s) to cover your weaknesses. I play random race arranged and random team 2's, 3's, and 4's in Diamond leagues, so here's some stuff I've picked up on. I'm gonna start with some general tips, then specific tips for the races (in team games), then tips for specific combos you have, and just as important, how to abuse other race combos. Much of this will overlap with solo, but hopefully some will help players that play mostly 1v1 or are just new.
In general:
-Map control is huge (just like it is in solo) mid-late game you really want to start locking down map control/containing and expand like the plague/ denying expos.
-The most aggressive and organized team is usually rewarded in sc. If you attack one guy with a well timed push, and they havent scouted you or arent ready for it, you can easily gang-bang one opponent into submission.
-Once you've taken advantage with a timed push/rush/cheese and severely injured their economies or taken a player out, take a breather, expand, get your econ going, and tech/scout. In solo, if you get them with your cheese/push/rush, you win, in teams, theres always a chance the other guy's teammates are going to come and counter you/bash your face in. Always be ready for that, don't be a slave to your original plan.
-don't forget you can share control (allows a teammate to pick up slack in micro while you do macro on extended battles)
-don't forget you can share resources, if you have too much, ask if your allies need them, if you need something to keep up, dont be afraid to ask.
-avoid using static base defenses when you can. If I ever see someone cannoning, we will immediately rush their teammate, since they won't be able to provide any support, you get the free 2v1. Always favor units over defensive buildings when you can.
-Sometimes it is better to counter attack than try to save your ally if it's too late to prevent their base from being destroyed. You can tie up the game if you can hit their base hard before they can react themselves.
As Zerg:
-Speedlings can really run a game, especially once you get to 3v3 and 4v4, their mobility allows you to counter attack very effectively, and if youre lucky/good, ruin their economies. (especially on maps where bases are separated or are hard to block).
-If youre going mutaling, get some extra gas from teammates if they can spare it (if I'm playing with a friend I know will do this, I'll often adjust my strategy so that I'll have 500+ to give him). Showing up with 10 mutas instead of 5 mutas is a huge difference.
-Don't be afraid to 8/9 pool, but know how and when to recover your economy. One of my favorite cheap moves in 3v3 with a zerg +p/t is to have the non-zergs scout, and double up probe harassing a terran while hes building his supply/rax. Delay him as much as possible while the zerg 9 pools him, it's mean but it works surprisingly well.
-I don't know how often you see ling/hydra in solo, but i find very often that this will compliment most T/P army compositions extremely well. Same can be said for broodlords... They just win games.
As Terran:
-Siege tanks are a powerhouse earlier in team games than they are in solo. This is obviously because larger armies give tanks more opportunities to get lots of splash damage, and your allies can throw up a meatshield to protect them, where in solo it would take quite a while to have enough meat to defend tanks. I like to do marines + tanks (early) with support from either roaches or zlot/stalker.
-You don't have to all in 4-5 rax to help out teammates that are rushing/pressuring while you tech. You'd be surprised how strong 4-5 marines can be when well microed with ling/zlot.
-If you're up against all protoss, a pure marauder push supported by lings or zlots will devastate them, since early on concussive marauders own zlots and stalkers.
As Toss:
-In solo there's obviously a lot of force field play on defense, or to break up your opponent's army, but on certain maps with ramps that are easily FF'ed, you can really punish teams by blocking in teammates while ganging up one a single player. This is particularly nasty when you put tanks on their ledge, then FF their ramp while you decimate their teammate and tanks rain down on them from their own teammate's ledge.
-Get pylons in strategic locations around the map so that you can quickly support allies or counterattack enemies with warpgates.
-You'll be surprised how many games chargelots and immortals will be very effective vs a large part of your opponent's total army composition, just make sure your ally supports you accordingly.
As these team combos, think about doing stuff like this (obviously not everything, but heres some stuff to get your juices flowing):
Z/P:
-as previously stated in this thread, speedlings and blinkstalkers are extremely mobile and are a very good combo, with good micro you can completely own a game with just that.
-Fungal growth + Colossi. Fungal growthing an opponent's army and watching colossi burn them from a safe distance is one of the most satisfying things I've ever done in sc2. Obviously back yourself up with stalkers or hydras, plus zealots or lings.
Z/Z:
-double one-base roach push can be brutal.
-if this game goes long I usually find broodlords to be full of win, and sometimes your only option. They destroy just about anything on the ground if you give them minimal support.
Z/T:
-8/9 pool + reapers isn't as prevalent anymore, but with good micro that is pretty tough harass to beat.
-in the late game, if you can get thors + broodlords +random filler, you're going to win.
-delayed reapers + muta. This is after initial skirmishes. Use reapers to clear any AA defenses, then harass workers with muta and reaper.
-if the terran goes gas-light with a combo like marine/hellion/viking, and donates excess gas to the zerg, it makes for a pretty rough harass harass harass mutaball.
T/T:
-MMM + mech (timed with tanks), simple yet effective.
-if your bases are separated, try not to turtle up too much, if you do it'll be hard to react to opponent's moves, especially early all-in rushes.
P/P:
-if you can make it to the mid/late game, you can win dominantly, but be careful of reaper/marauder/speedlings when you only have slow moving early game gateway armies.
-sometimes the doubleproxy just works, especially if you want to avoid getting abused by T/x teams.
T/P:
-very common combo, excels with timed pushes or mid/late game play. Can't think of anything particularly special atm that you couldn't figure out yourself.
Some of this may sound repetitive, but for completion's sake:
Against these combos:
Z/Z:
-Instinctually you may want to prepare for the double 6/8 pool, but be sure not to give them too much space. If they get to pure drone for too long early game you're going to be in deep trouble.
-roaches beat all other zerg t1, so vs double zerg as zerg, roaches are very effective early. Similarly, the first mutas out will have a huge impact in this match up. I will almost always tribute gas to a zerg teammate for mutas if were facing off against 2 zerg.
-abuse ovies as much as you can, afew vikings or phoenix/void can go a long way at setting them back.
-goes without saying but as toss get that damn +1 attack upgrade for zlot vs ling
P/P:
-stalkers, marauders and speedlings all abuse protoss t1's lack of mobility. Take advantage with an early push if you can, or at least maintain map control.
-tank/viking will often find a place against this match up late game.
-in solo you usually will avoid hydra vs toss (colossi), but if you can get ample anti-colossi support from viking, corruptors, s-tanks, infestors, void, immortals, etc, dont be afraid to mix in hydra, they are great vs zlot/stalker you will see plenty of.
T/T:
-fast rushes can often pick on these teams if their bases are separated because of their tendency to wall off. If you scout a terran that hasn't walled off he's probably going all in rax, in which case rush the crap out of him with everything you have and you'll overpower him (when lings/zlot are more effective, that is, when numbers are still low). It's alot harder to fight them when they get their critical mass bioball.
-a few fast marines or reaper can go a long way in breaking a terran wall. Often they are only defended by a marine or two and scv repair, and your own marines can help cover ling/zlot busting down the house.
-broodlords own on all terran ground units, so combo them with ample anti air (thor, stalker, corruptor, viking, phoenix, etc) and lay siege to them, zerg style.
T/P:
-in the early game speedlings can work pretty well against this team. avoid fighting zlots, crush their mm/stalkers when they are in small numbers, and try to get at those gatherers.
-supported tanks are great vs this combo.
-early game straight mass marines do pretty well in this match.
-roaches tend to not fair so well in this one, since there is definitely going to be marauders and or stalkers.
-be careful going fo muta, T/P in team games tend to be the hardest to get away with this against.
-chargelots usually do really well in this matchup, since they will beat on MM and zlot/stalker/immortal
T/Z:
-if you can, supported colossi will often be very strong against this combo.
P/Z:
-can be a tricky match up, scouting is very important to know if you're gonna see roach or lings, zlot or stalker, etc. Stay on your toes as much as possible.
-it's very likely they wont have good ramp wall-offs, so rushes can work pretty well.
Well... there's my 2 cents that I can think of at the moment. Hope that helps somebody.
|
nice post
going to update the thread after blizzcon
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
