|
With the mega mech upgrades + armory, wouldn't you make at least SOME thors? Maybe when you claim your third expo.
With the recent patch they can actually be quite good in TvP. I mean, if you're getting +2/+1 mech theres really no reason why you shouldn't be building a few thors also to benefit from that.
Thors=AA, so it will help against any stargate shenanigans.
|
On October 16 2010 13:16 manicsquare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 13:14 Yaotzin wrote: Have you even tested this against the various early aggression builds, or stargate openings..? One of those replays should involve a small stargate opening where i stop him from mining at his natural but I then give up on void rays after he gets enough turrets down. The counter to early voids as he said is an early E-bay or about 4 marines. I personally think that it works better if he goes 4 marines. The first 2 links are the same game so I can't see ^_^
Yes I have in fact, I just don't have the replays. Vs. a 4 gate it is advised to skip the 3rd and straight up add more factories and starports. Versus voidrays, I usually make ~4 marines OR turret up as seen in the first replay. I scouted it too late in the first replay, so I had to spam turrets. The thing I was weakest against was an early immortal push, but if you add 8 marines you can easily hold it off.
Turret against voids.....
You look extremely vulnerable to voids in those replays, especially at your front. Looks like an easy snipe+chargeup on the depots.
Midgame on you had like 4 vikings as your only anti-air...kinda begging for a void backstab, voids pushing straight on your army, or phoenix play.
How do you stop the immo push with only marines? Once the bunker is down the stalkers have you in serious trouble..
In general it's hard to draw much from games with so little aggression. That toss could've gone 200/200 void and gged you.
|
WTF is this? Bronze league play? I saw the replays, and the protoss didn't even make an army,- he had 103 harvesters at 3 base and maxed out all his pylons to 200 pop and was floating so much money. He was at 170 pop with no army and you were at 126.
Those replays demonstrate nothing, and the low APM of the protoss player already proves it- bronze level. When i was watching those replays i was facepalming at very instant where he could have won.
I hope this thread gets deleted because seriously, go ladder and try it why you will instantly lose against any half decent player. Playing on ICCUP - i thought you guys were competitive but replays showed every indication of a low level player and protoss never scouts actively and whole game was turtle like a noob.
Fking waste my time.
|
On October 16 2010 13:38 tournamentnow wrote: WTF is this? Bronze league play? I saw the replays, and the protoss didn't even make an army,- he had 103 harvesters at 3 base and maxed out all his pylons to 200 pop and was floating so much money. He was at 170 pop with no army and you were at 126.
Those replays demonstrate nothing, and the low APM of the protoss player already proves it- bronze level. When i was watching those replays i was facepalming at very instant where he could have won.
I hope this thread gets deleted because seriously, go ladder and try it why you will instantly lose against any half decent player. Playing on ICCUP - i thought you guys were competitive but replays showed every indication of a low level player and protoss never scouts actively and whole game was turtle like a noob.
Totally... low APM = Noob.
and themiddleone is platinum (i believe). I will play some games vs NitrOuS (Diamond 1200, ME ANXIETE not Nitrous), as you care about rank so much after SKT vs KT is i have time. check back up tomorrow night or something
|
TournamentNow, =(, youre so mean. TheMiddleOne is actually platinum and I'm diamond, and I have used this strategy on the ladder. If you play protoss I could play against you as soon as the proleague SKT vs. KT is finished, and I'll fix the replays right now. Thanks for informing me Yaotzin.
Edit : I think I fixed the replays.
|
Rather have 3 raxes and do an earlier push than have a smaller army w/ upgrades and a significantly later push.
|
Well if you have 3 raxes, you wont have as good as an economy and colossi/HT are quite good vs. BIO, especially in later game, while going double armory allows you to get a good economy, a powerful midgame/lategame army, and avoiding the problem of how good protoss things are later in the game.
|
I watched about 15 minutes of the first replay, and I'm stopping there compltely unconvinced. The
Why?
First up, play this build on SC2 maps. Oh what, you don't like them? Well, stiff fucking shit, your strategy is worthless on a map no-one plays on. Like, that map you were using is really good for mass turtling because it's huge and the terrain layout of the main and the natural and third support it. Awesome, I can totally apply that logic to any of the maps in the current SC2 map pool.
Wait, no I can't!
Second, the protoss is playing poorly. His build is unrefined, you're both floating crazy, and the counter to mech play is Immortal, HT, chargelot, and building some observers!
Third is that I would hate to go for a purely passive lategame strategy against protoss because the lategame favours them so very hard. Pure mech is dealt with by the above combo, plus a mothership, and the protoss WILL out-eco you the whole time.
I don't like this strategy, and I don't like the chances of pure mech in this matchup at it's current state. Ghost mech MAYBE, but not pure mech.
|
I see, well I'll get a replay on Ladder maps ok? I feel like it is viable on the current ladder maps, and how does lategame favour protoss hard? I was just wondering because this has actually been working for me in the ladder.
|
On October 16 2010 14:03 iaguz wrote: I watched about 15 minutes of the first replay, and I'm stopping there compltely unconvinced. The
Why?
First up, play this build on SC2 maps. Oh what, you don't like them? Well, stiff fucking shit, your strategy is worthless on a map no-one plays on. Like, that map you were using is really good for mass turtling because it's huge and the terrain layout of the main and the natural and third support it. Awesome, I can totally apply that logic to any of the maps in the current SC2 map pool.
Wait, no I can't!
Second, the protoss is playing poorly. His build is unrefined, you're both floating crazy, and the counter to mech play is Immortal, HT, chargelot, and building some observers!
Third is that I would hate to go for a purely passive lategame strategy against protoss because the lategame favours them so very hard. Pure mech is dealt with by the above combo, plus a mothership, and the protoss WILL out-eco you the whole time.
I don't like this strategy, and I don't like the chances of pure mech in this matchup at it's current state. Ghost mech MAYBE, but not pure mech.
Srry my play is bad as they said I am in plat and I don't play like super competitive. Haven't tried Immortal,HT, chargelot yet but just getting chargelots with stalkers they got fryed once he gets so many hellions. I'm also concerned with HTs because I think the same logic would apply.
|
On October 16 2010 14:10 manicsquare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 14:03 iaguz wrote: I watched about 15 minutes of the first replay, and I'm stopping there compltely unconvinced. The
Why?
First up, play this build on SC2 maps. Oh what, you don't like them? Well, stiff fucking shit, your strategy is worthless on a map no-one plays on. Like, that map you were using is really good for mass turtling because it's huge and the terrain layout of the main and the natural and third support it. Awesome, I can totally apply that logic to any of the maps in the current SC2 map pool.
Wait, no I can't!
Second, the protoss is playing poorly. His build is unrefined, you're both floating crazy, and the counter to mech play is Immortal, HT, chargelot, and building some observers!
Third is that I would hate to go for a purely passive lategame strategy against protoss because the lategame favours them so very hard. Pure mech is dealt with by the above combo, plus a mothership, and the protoss WILL out-eco you the whole time.
I don't like this strategy, and I don't like the chances of pure mech in this matchup at it's current state. Ghost mech MAYBE, but not pure mech. Srry my play is bad as they said I am in plat and I don't play like super competitive. Haven't tried Immortal,HT, chargelot yet but just getting chargelots with stalkers they got fryed once he gets so many hellions. I'm also concerned with HTs because I think the same logic would apply.
WHAT your themiddleone?
HT's are weaker now. thors cant get feedbacked.
|
I think youre forgetting mech doesnt really fall to storm anymore since storm is weak, and hellions are quite strong vs. chargelots and HTs. A mothership can be easily scouted and I can add on more vikings, since I dont really get thors. I think I should get thors and ghosts though, improving this strat.
|
On October 16 2010 14:15 AnxietE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 14:10 manicsquare wrote:On October 16 2010 14:03 iaguz wrote: I watched about 15 minutes of the first replay, and I'm stopping there compltely unconvinced. The
Why?
First up, play this build on SC2 maps. Oh what, you don't like them? Well, stiff fucking shit, your strategy is worthless on a map no-one plays on. Like, that map you were using is really good for mass turtling because it's huge and the terrain layout of the main and the natural and third support it. Awesome, I can totally apply that logic to any of the maps in the current SC2 map pool.
Wait, no I can't!
Second, the protoss is playing poorly. His build is unrefined, you're both floating crazy, and the counter to mech play is Immortal, HT, chargelot, and building some observers!
Third is that I would hate to go for a purely passive lategame strategy against protoss because the lategame favours them so very hard. Pure mech is dealt with by the above combo, plus a mothership, and the protoss WILL out-eco you the whole time.
I don't like this strategy, and I don't like the chances of pure mech in this matchup at it's current state. Ghost mech MAYBE, but not pure mech. Srry my play is bad as they said I am in plat and I don't play like super competitive. Haven't tried Immortal,HT, chargelot yet but just getting chargelots with stalkers they got fryed once he gets so many hellions. I'm also concerned with HTs because I think the same logic would apply. WHAT your themiddleone? HT's are weaker now. thors cant get feedbacked.
Yeah Anxiete I'm TMO and he doesn't use thors for this or he doesn't use them against me at least. I mean if i could get close enough to tanks Storms would be useful but considering that he goes in with hellions first I don't think I could get that close. I think that it will have to be a mostly void ray army.
|
The problem is that air is easy to scout, so I can just add on vikings and thors, and reduce hellions and tanks. Its actually a very adaptable build, allowing for air upgrades OR mech upgrades.
|
On October 16 2010 14:19 NiTrOuS wrote: The problem is that air is easy to scout, so I can just add on vikings and thors, and reduce hellions and tanks. Its actually a very adaptable build, allowing for air upgrades OR mech upgrades.
I think going for an air army of viking and banshees would be an interesting for fun build. But on a more serious note I think that going vikings would be better because thors are more easily countered with immortals than tanks are especially if u have hellions acting as a wall for the tanks.
|
Yeah, I also agree that vikings would be a good choice, and that ravens, ghosts, and maybe even thors mixed in would also help a lot. Ravens specifically can detect and use PDD against the mothership attack, negating it.
|
I am definitely going to have to try this out, I have been trying to find some good ways to mech against protoss, and this seems as good as any. I would imagine that Thors somewhat early on would be great, especially against immortals, as 250mm cannons destroy them in 1 shot.
|
Well, it does get upgrades fast, and I guess thors could be good. You have to make sure to adapt though to what the protoss throws at you, like 4 gate you make more marines and get later expansions.
|
I was messing around with this build in some custom games today, and I have to say that it is really good.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-158208.jpg)
This is a replay that I played against a random player, and I have to say that mass tanks works really well. I think that this build is probably at its weakest early on, but once your economy kicks in the amount of units you can build just gets ridiculous.
|
I feel like, instead of adding that many factories on you could have gotten a starport, but at least you tried the build. Anyways, as you can see the tanks with upgrades are very powerful vs. all ground, including immortals, even though they are supposed to countered by them. Chargelots melted to your hellions and DTs also. This is also played on a ladder map, showing it is viable.
|
|
|
|