EPT[D] 1.1.2 Void Ray changes (with poll) - Page 2
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Ichabod
United States1659 Posts
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DragonDefonce
United States790 Posts
On October 15 2010 06:14 DeckOneBell wrote: I don't think 8+8 will be so bad, they'll probably still beat stalkers for cost, except they won't absolutely destroy stalkers any more. Honestly, probably nerfs them hardest in PvP, because of stalkers. Otherwise, looks like they're more combat-worthy units as opposed to purely building harass. Turning them into more of a core army unit, I think, is good. Explain to me how having voidrays mixed into your army is better now than it was before. | ||
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whoopadeedoo
United States427 Posts
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DrakanSilva
Chile932 Posts
On October 15 2010 06:28 DragonDefonce wrote: Explain to me how having voidrays mixed into your army is better now than it was before. with speed you can kite stalkers and marines to be able to kill marauders and inmortals without being charged, and since you will be kiting units all the time your void ray will uncharge several times during battles. win. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On October 15 2010 06:28 kasumimi wrote: Guys I'm sorry for the silly question but I was under the impression VRs had 3 levels of charge? What am I missing? :E It does, but the second level doesn't change the damage output. It's merely a passover/transition to delay the final damage level. Personally, I feel like it's a bit too overnerfed. It was quite powerful prior, but now with its reduced range, reduced speed, and reduced total dps I don't think it's worth the 250/150 price tag :\ | ||
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Perscienter
957 Posts
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noD
2230 Posts
On October 15 2010 06:29 whoopadeedoo wrote: I won't argue that it was done on purpose, but what I'm saying is it makes the VR pretty damn useless. Who would build VRs instead of immortals who do and take much more damage to intended armored unit ... for 50 less gas? What role does the VR have now? Simple answer ? They kill small things faster =X For example marines recive now 10dps instead of 8,3 marauders 17 dps instead of 8,3 ghosts 10 dps instead of 8,3, void ray is now meant to attack units not building, that is what changed, it will be even more of a coutner to mm .... | ||
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PointyBagels
United States90 Posts
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Perscienter
957 Posts
On October 15 2010 06:17 Drakan wrote: and when charged they were absolutely imbalanced killing vikings at sight before being able to make 2 shots, or instantly killing marines. You mean they hard countered bad micro and non-existant scouting. Yes, how evil of them! 'They always kill my precious vikings because I wasn't able to find the auto-kite-button' *cry* | ||
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blitzkrieger
United States512 Posts
LOL and they nerf speed which is on fleet bacon (typo wut?). I really thought void rays were going to be a cool high skill cap unit with phasing or charge juggling but no, now they are chandeliers in a museum of forgotten wonders. Thx blizzard. | ||
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blitzkrieger
United States512 Posts
On October 15 2010 06:30 Drakan wrote: with speed you can kite stalkers and marines to be able to kill marauders and inmortals without being charged, and since you will be kiting units all the time your void ray will uncharge several times during battles. win. Too bad its like uh... infinietly easier to get some vikings or blink to stop that that to get feet bacon and flux veins. Also stim. | ||
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Mystgun
Hong Kong311 Posts
On October 15 2010 06:17 Drakan wrote: LoL @ the complain. Did you read well ? now when uncharged they deal 10dmg to armored units instead of 5. and when charged they were absolutely imbalanced killing vikings at sight before being able to make 2 shots, or instantly killing marines. They will be very usefull in battles instead of only using the when they are in masses or to make sneak attacks/cheese when charged. With speed they can avoid being killed by marines, and kill armored units. The point you make is what I am ambivalent about. Half the fun of using void rays is to figure out creative ways to keep them charged, since it repays you in dividends if you manage to maintain charge. Now that charged damage has been reduced and uncharged damage has been increased, that gameplay mechanic has changed with less incentive to keep them charged. It adds a bit more flexibility to their playstyle but at the same time weakens their intended role. Another poster pointed out that this is analogous to buffing siege tank unsieged damage, but at the expense of siege mode. | ||
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DragonDefonce
United States790 Posts
On October 15 2010 06:30 Drakan wrote: with speed you can kite stalkers and marines to be able to kill marauders and inmortals without being charged, and since you will be kiting units all the time your void ray will uncharge several times during battles. win. Speed got nerfed, against big targets like immortals, voidrays suck ass now, voidray is marginally better when not charged, but that undermines the whole concept of charge that its built around, and it still cost shitton and takes forever to build. I mean it can't even beat a queen 1 on 1 anymore. What kind of joke is that? | ||
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EnderCN
United States499 Posts
On October 15 2010 06:17 regulator_mk wrote: This. Damage increasing by 60% from 10 to 16 when fully charged -- instead of 400% from 5 to 25 -- is a joke. From a spectator point of view, full charge used to be something to get excited about. It was cool to see people charging on pylons and trying to maintain it by hitting their own units, because it was a HUGE difference. Now, it's just not that serious. Void ray is kind of boring now (regardless of whether or not it is more "balanced"). A unit that sometimes does 5 and sometimes does 25 is called a poorly designed unit. The old VR was just poorly designed. The new one might not be perfect but it is better at least. Balance is generally boring, that's what makes it balanced~. | ||
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whoopadeedoo
United States427 Posts
On October 15 2010 06:31 noD wrote: Simple answer ? They kill small things faster =X For example marines recive now 10dps instead of 8,3 marauders 17 dps instead of 8,3 ghosts 10 dps instead of 8,3, void ray is now meant to attack units not building, that is what changed, it will be even more of a coutner to mm .... VRs fall silly-fast to marines, stimmed or not. It will not be a counter to MM because of +1 attack to marines and +5 to maruaders O.o Again, immortals > VRs for this function. Marines lolpwn VRs more than they do immortals, which says something. | ||
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kasumimi
Greece460 Posts
On October 15 2010 06:30 Ryuu314 wrote: It does, but the second level doesn't change the damage output. It's merely a passover/transition to delay the final damage level. Personally, I feel like it's a bit too overnerfed. It was quite powerful prior, but now with its reduced range, reduced speed, and reduced total dps I don't think it's worth the 250/150 price tag :\ Ahhh thanks for clearing this up. So the overall idea is to "buff" uncharged damage and nerf the max charge. The nerf might be too much but I don't think the unit will become useless like people claim. Catching your opponent of guard with charged VR will can still be devastating. | ||
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MK4512
Canada938 Posts
Now the void ray is just a unit with a laser beam and a slightly stronger laser beam. It was one of the most intresting units blizzard had designed, the mechanic was great. | ||
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DrakanSilva
Chile932 Posts
On October 15 2010 06:37 Mystgun wrote: The point you make is what I am ambivalent about. Half the fun of using void rays is to figure out creative ways to keep them charged, since it repays you in dividends if you manage to maintain charge. Now that charged damage has been reduced and uncharged damage has been increased, that gameplay mechanic has changed with less incentive to keep them charged. It adds a bit more flexibility to their playstyle but at the same time weakens their intended role. Another poster pointed out that this is analogous to buffing siege tank unsieged damage, but at the expense of siege mode. I understand but i've seen many progames being beated by 2 charged void rays and if you don't scout 1 of the 498.125.623 spots where protoss can hide a pylon there is no way to win as Zerg. What i think is that the Level 2 is WAYYY too nerfed, but it had to be nerfed anyway because it was ridiculous. I got tired of watching protoss winning using this strat against good players in the Garimto stream and another great example was IdrA being absolutely owned with no chance to survive after seeing 2 void rays. And i understand that many matches were interesting thanks to void ray micro, but they were MANY MORE matches were if a voidray hit a hatchery, a geyser, any structure, is instant win. | ||
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DeckOneBell
United States526 Posts
On October 15 2010 06:23 whoopadeedoo wrote: I actually ran it through the editor. VRs used to beat queens 1:1. They lose now. I'm not saying this is bad, but it does make VR harass completely unviable vs zerg. A good zerg player generally has two bases by the time you have voids, which means two queens. On most maps (lol not desert oasis) the second queen can come back, either way. VRs still do have a purpose in harass, but are now a lot more reasonable as combat units in smaller numbers, imo. Obviously I'll have to play to check. | ||
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Iatrik
Germany159 Posts
I like this change, since there is absolutely no way to stop a critical mass of Void Rays. The change of the level 1 attacks makes it a little bit harder for protoss to charge up (At a plyon | your own units etc). Vikings now might require some micro to kill of a level 1-charged Void Ray (don't know yet). I guess, this change will make Void Rays a little bit stronger in PvP early game, but preventing them from being "massed". You don't have to care as much about your Void Ray as before, since Level 1-Charge vs. Level 2-Charge won't be that much of a difference. So you have way more time to spend your APM at other things. Well , at least, that's my opinion. >.< Maybe they need to adjust its costs or HP/Shield now, since your Void Rays die very quickly without excellent micro. But why do you wanna micro them for such a small damage increase? | ||
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