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[D] 1.1.2 Void Ray changes (with poll) - Page 11

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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GoldenH
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1115 Posts
October 16 2010 02:52 GMT
#201
I guess some of my replays are being downloaded, so I hope they are being useful? If there is any situation you want to see VRs in, please let me know and I'll try to arrange it in a game.
"(Dudes are) not going to say "Buy this game — I cried at the end". (...) I suppose the secret is to find a game that makes you shoot eight million fuckin' dudes and then cry about how awesome it is to shoot eight million fuckin' dudes." - Tim Rogers
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
October 16 2010 03:13 GMT
#202
Voids are actually really good against Vikings now. I mean, they're kitable without the speed upgrade, but in a straight-up fight Voids beat them quite handily, and once they have the speed upgrade Vikings (still) can't kite. Since Vikings are one of the primary reasons Terran kicks the crap out of Toss in the air, I think this is pretty significant, and definitely a straight buff, as it was very rare that you'd have precharged Void Rays for an air to air battle with Vikings.

They're also better at quickly defending against that bane of all Toss--Marauders. Previously, if Marauders dropped into your base and your Void wasn't charged, they would likely take out your nexus before you could effectively respond. Now the Void can pitch in effectively on defense right away, and the Nexus has more hp.

Voids are also, somewhat ironically, even better when massed, which I think runs counter to what Blizzard intended. It was basically impossible to get charge on 10+ Voids, but now even uncharged Voids are quite dangerous.

This is a big nerf to one specific use--precharging or proxying Voids, then using them to wipe out a base almost instantly. It is a small nerf to another use, using them to bring down capital ships (Blink Stalkers are probably the unit of choice for that now).

But in terms of actually making Void Rays useful in a normal battle, useful in defense, and useful in the battle vs. Terran for air dominance, I think its a pretty decent buff.
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
FrostOtter
Profile Joined September 2010
United States537 Posts
October 16 2010 03:32 GMT
#203
Are the people saying that VRs die v. Queens one-on-one actually testing this, because from my tests this is not at all true. The Queen gets the VR down into its health (no shields), but still dies.
GoldenH
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1115 Posts
October 16 2010 03:42 GMT
#204
The guy saying that said he did it by a map editor, I think he set the queen to the wrong stats, maybe gave it 1000 HP or something. I have had no problems killing queens with my VRs in actual games, see my posted replay.
"(Dudes are) not going to say "Buy this game — I cried at the end". (...) I suppose the secret is to find a game that makes you shoot eight million fuckin' dudes and then cry about how awesome it is to shoot eight million fuckin' dudes." - Tim Rogers
FrostOtter
Profile Joined September 2010
United States537 Posts
October 16 2010 04:02 GMT
#205
On October 16 2010 12:42 GoldenH wrote:
The guy saying that said he did it by a map editor, I think he set the queen to the wrong stats, maybe gave it 1000 HP or something. I have had no problems killing queens with my VRs in actual games, see my posted replay.

Ah, missed that. That makes more sense.
SaintsTheMetal
Profile Joined September 2010
United States45 Posts
October 16 2010 09:24 GMT
#206
On October 16 2010 12:42 GoldenH wrote:
I have had no problems killing queens with my VRs in actual games, see my posted replay.


I have >.>
I ended up in a very strange situation, where the game hung in the balance between my 3 VRs vs just two queens with one more on the way. Well these two queens with a few transfusion completely beat my 3 VRs. They gunned one down to the red (which i pulled back and microed) by the time he had to use one transfusion. In the end I got one queen down with another popping out and taking down my last VR..

Their damage is pitiful, have the survivability of a paper plane, and cost almost as much as a capital ship. I just don't understand what Blizzard thinks we're to do with them...
GoldenH
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1115 Posts
October 16 2010 09:44 GMT
#207
They wouldn't have beat 2 queens that could transfuse each other pre-nerf anyway. If he's skipping Spawn Larvaes you should consider that a huge victory, and then go straight for the drones. I don't care how good the zerg player is, transfuse on drones isn't going to save them
"(Dudes are) not going to say "Buy this game — I cried at the end". (...) I suppose the secret is to find a game that makes you shoot eight million fuckin' dudes and then cry about how awesome it is to shoot eight million fuckin' dudes." - Tim Rogers
Chen
Profile Joined June 2009
United States6344 Posts
October 16 2010 09:46 GMT
#208
For those of you suggesting that void rays be used as a core army unit for dps vs armored targets. the uncharged DPS of void rays(only can use this since its the only thing that was buffed) is 16.6. the DPS of 2 stalkers vs armored is 19.5. 2 stalkers costs about the same as 1 void ray not factoring in cost of the starport. 2 stalkers also tank more damage than 1 void ray does.
If they really wanted to make it an army unit they should have given it the 1 armor/range back and/or decreased cost/increased HP.
Batch
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden692 Posts
October 16 2010 11:41 GMT
#209
On October 16 2010 18:46 Chen wrote:
For those of you suggesting that void rays be used as a core army unit for dps vs armored targets. the uncharged DPS of void rays(only can use this since its the only thing that was buffed) is 16.6. the DPS of 2 stalkers vs armored is 19.5. 2 stalkers costs about the same as 1 void ray not factoring in cost of the starport. 2 stalkers also tank more damage than 1 void ray does.
If they really wanted to make it an army unit they should have given it the 1 armor/range back and/or decreased cost/increased HP.

You are doing it wrong. Why shouldn't void rays get to factor in their charged attack in a army unit comparison?

Larger armies of ground units would block each other making some of them unable to attack. Since void rays are flying units this means that you are less affected by chokes and can have a larger number of units participating in the combat. A combination of zealots, stalkers, collossus and void rays could be put together to create a really compact army ball.
noVa972
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany64 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-16 11:53:16
October 16 2010 11:52 GMT
#210
They are still OP but now it's a bit better.
But they are now even more usefull. Strange change.
hoovehand
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom542 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-16 12:01:17
October 16 2010 11:54 GMT
#211
also, please stop talking about queens - THEY ARE NOT ARMOURED. it's exactly like someone saying "ZOMG reapers have been massively gimped against queens" - no they ain't, because they're faster than creep queens without nitro packs already.

i'm pretty sure that voidrays OWN even harder in early game against marines in 1.1.2...

the only down side is that they're a lot weaker against battlecruisers and buildings... but the damage against those was rediculous. he baits stim while sniping at your refinery from the cliff, then comes in without charge and kills 5-6 marines - then you simply can't build anti air fast enough unless you have like 5 rax. just a single voidray requires like 4-5 rax to effectively counter.

imo voidray makes banshee look like trash. get detection and the banshee is just a flying marauder that costs 4 times more gas, takes twice as long to build and has very limited cloak time..
Goobahfish
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia71 Posts
October 16 2010 12:21 GMT
#212
I think the change was completely appropriate. Now you can use an uncharged void ray for something and charged void-rays aren't insane. I still disagree with the mechanic in general but pragmatically it fixes a few of the issues. They should probably drop the cost slightly however or something like that to compensate, but that remains to be seen.
The body cannot live without the mind.
Drakkart
Profile Joined May 2010
80 Posts
October 16 2010 12:56 GMT
#213
In my humble opinion te void ray is now ok damage wise.
but blizzard created a imbalance by not lowering its cost. the unit is not worth 250/150.
but the voidrays are ok for now to play. what blizzard still needs to fix is protoss air concept and giving them some counter to the late game units like corruptors and battlecruisers ...
the voidray could not fullfill that role prepatch so the changes affect protoss AA capability post patch even more. but right now the stats of the unit work quit right. as i mentioned the costs are too high now.
Wrongspeedy
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1655 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-16 14:37:31
October 16 2010 14:37 GMT
#214
Lol @ posters comparing voids to immos and stalkers. Did they forget that flying is a bonus? I think it is easy to forget* that when half the stuff in the game can't shoot you, you don't need as much survivability. Oh and you can still boogie over cliffs and even into the abyss of the map.
It is better to be a human dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied.- John Stuart Mill
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
October 16 2010 14:40 GMT
#215
I think the change is fantastic. Not only does it nerf those voidray all-ins which might have been a little too strong against terran it also drastically changes their ability to just be used as a combat unit.

Against colossi for example they are actually better now as they do much more damage straight up now. The stage 1 damage against colossi has more then doubled which is huge (9 vs 4 since colossi have 1 armor) which makes them a much better counter against colossi now. Fast colossi builds are not viable anymore in PvP because stalker heavy builds can easily make voids to counter those now.

Against zerg and terran they are simply a unit they should be now, a counter to tier 3 air. Voidray rushes can still work ok in some scenario's as well.
Quasi.In.Rem
Profile Joined September 2010
53 Posts
October 16 2010 17:47 GMT
#216
how boring.

they are basically different units now. i'm not opposed to balancing the unit, but it's sad that they just decided to play it safe and make them boring.
metalsonic
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands95 Posts
October 16 2010 17:51 GMT
#217
this patch is ridicoulles , Void Rays are so useless to charge ...... please decrease damage when not charged and increase when charged it worked way better , if the opposing player didn't see void rays incoming it is his problem for his lack of scouting . A few voids taking out a base is pretty fair if u compare them with mutalisk wich can when massed take a mineral line out in 5 seconds -.-'' .
Void Rays are the spellbreakers from war 3 tft all over again ( there identity and uses change so much that nobody knows the exact usage anymore )
universalwill
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States654 Posts
October 16 2010 18:25 GMT
#218
I think it's good. Now players don't lose immediately if the stargate is hidden and the toss charges up on a phoenix or some destructible rocks or something.

i haven't had much trouble with them because most of the time i either scout the stargate or scout the complete lack of any units or buildings in his base and know that there's a stargate somewhere on the map. but on maps like kulas and desert oasis post-patch, i would still lose to them because i can't stop them from being charged up on rocks (probably the big reason those maps were removed from the pool, though i don't see how it can't be done on shakuras)

but they didn't nerf void rays for us dia players. they were nerfed for the bronze league players. i have 2 friends who were trying to get into starcraft, but ended up just quitting the game because in bronze league, players can barely hold off worker rushes. let alone void ray rushes. players ragequitting the game is bad for business.

still, i think void rays will have their place. they can still do a lot of damage if the opponent is caught off guard by them, and they're great units once zergs reach hive tech.
Rawenkeke
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway350 Posts
October 16 2010 18:33 GMT
#219
Gotta love gold and silver players strugling against Vrs... durderp blizz :/
SaintsTheMetal
Profile Joined September 2010
United States45 Posts
October 16 2010 18:38 GMT
#220
Anyone that thinks its a buff that Void Rays do better damage un-charged is either a troll or just doesn't understand them. Unless you have 10+ Void Rays, they are SO easy to charge, that unless you are in Bronze you would always find a way to charge them before engaging, so the uncharged DPS REALLY doesn't matter Blizzard is really just trying to make them into an A-Move unit it seems like
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