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[G] ZvP: I offer to TeamLiquid the Fail Pool - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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XdsZmX
Profile Joined July 2010
21 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 03:20:57
October 15 2010 03:20 GMT
#61
Just wondering, how does this work out against a 10-gate early pressure into FE build? Even vs 6-pool, the toss is constantly chronoing the zealots and the first one will come out on time, or maybe a second or two late to defend. With the toss pulling 3-4 probes along with the zealot, he should no fine, no? Even if you run straight for the toss probe line, he can defend for a few seconds using just his probes and be still be in a good condition. Just don't see how this is viable, considering how often 10-gate pressure is seen vs zerg.
starcraft2leverage
Profile Joined October 2010
United States207 Posts
October 15 2010 03:47 GMT
#62
On October 15 2010 11:47 Jermstuddog wrote:
@Obsolescence

Sorry for not including enough pretty pictures.

I am not asking for help on how to properly execute a Fail Pool rush. I know very well how to do it and I am sharing that knowledge with TL.

I could have labelled it [D] as I intended to answer any questions people may have about it that I didn't cover specifically in the OP, but I figured the [G] tag fit best with what I wanted to do, which is share a strategy that I have found to be viable at mid-diamond levels.

I will add more bold text to the OP if it makes you feel better.

edit: Bolds added sir, sorry for the inconvenience.


Thanks for the thread, I'm definitely going to try this out. Don't listen to the negative nancy.
OreoBoi
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada1639 Posts
October 15 2010 04:02 GMT
#63
On October 15 2010 12:20 XdsZmX wrote:
Just wondering, how does this work out against a 10-gate early pressure into FE build? Even vs 6-pool, the toss is constantly chronoing the zealots and the first one will come out on time, or maybe a second or two late to defend. With the toss pulling 3-4 probes along with the zealot, he should no fine, no? Even if you run straight for the toss probe line, he can defend for a few seconds using just his probes and be still be in a good condition. Just don't see how this is viable, considering how often 10-gate pressure is seen vs zerg.


You can't get the zealot out unless you want to not completely wall in. For example, If it's scrap station, I could chrono a zealot out, but then a runby is so easy to do.
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 05:31:09
October 15 2010 05:29 GMT
#64
On October 15 2010 10:49 Subversion wrote:
I just wanted to ask you if you could clarifiy the "body block" that forces the zealot to spawn on the inside?

Could you explain how you do that? If you give a screenshot that would be awesome, but I understand if thats too much trouble


http://nerdnugget.com/download/file.php?id=93

It's a terrible game in general, I just chose to play like a retard for some reason. But it has a great example of "body blocking" at the 3 minute mark.

I use all my lings to block his gateway and his zealot is forced to come out on the inside of his base and be useless rather than outside where he can defend.

I can juggle his two gateways for 3 zealots.

The obvious counter to this would be to make 2 zealots at the same time, but then your poor guy is stuck 1 vs 7 when he comes out.

I added this rep to the OP as well so people can understand the tactic that I mention.
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
Mugiwara
Profile Joined October 2010
3 Posts
October 15 2010 13:55 GMT
#65
On October 15 2010 01:31 Eknoid4 wrote:
forge first every single game guarantees zerg gets as early an expansion as he wants.


oh really?
the zerg can expand as soon as he wants anyway since the zealot buildtime nerf.

mb except on steppes when the toss plays dual 10 gate or some shit like that.


and the thing is, if you play forge first, you want to do one of the following things:

1. Block the choke with 2 pylons and 1-2 cannons

2. block the natural with 1 pylon+1 cannon

both things prevent an early expo of the zerg much better than any gate first build.


that prevents the zerg from taking his natural early, or forces him to take another expansion far away from his main.


if you are still affraid of zealot pressure in the beginning of the game, you definitly do something wrong....
Skrag
Profile Joined May 2010
United States643 Posts
October 15 2010 17:33 GMT
#66
On October 15 2010 11:15 ittarter wrote:
This seems a good counter to the all-in 6 pool. Dunno if you guys were aware of it.


GJ reading the thread, which doesn't describe a 6pool, and is not all-in.
"Just go *@#$ing kill him!" -- Day[9] "Thanks for being a jackass though! Enjoy your time on the forums!" - Artosis
Skrag
Profile Joined May 2010
United States643 Posts
October 15 2010 17:40 GMT
#67
On October 15 2010 12:12 Adeny wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=catz vs time&aq=f

I haven't seen every single vod, check it out.


That search turns up absolutely nothing for me.

Got any specific links to vods?
"Just go *@#$ing kill him!" -- Day[9] "Thanks for being a jackass though! Enjoy your time on the forums!" - Artosis
Spaceknight
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1 Post
October 15 2010 18:03 GMT
#68
8/9 1300+ diamond zergs tried this on me yesterday. All of them failed. Dropping a 2nd gate while chronoboosting zealots along with using worker probes to surround the zlings really defeats this.
Toss has to keep a steady production of zealots in order to eventually defeat the stream of zlings.

This is basically an All-in if it fails because you'll be way behind in production and income.
Champ24
Profile Joined August 2010
177 Posts
October 15 2010 18:39 GMT
#69
On October 16 2010 03:03 Spaceknight wrote:
8/9 1300+ diamond zergs tried this on me yesterday. All of them failed. Dropping a 2nd gate while chronoboosting zealots along with using worker probes to surround the zlings really defeats this.
Toss has to keep a steady production of zealots in order to eventually defeat the stream of zlings.

This is basically an All-in if it fails because you'll be way behind in production and income.


Replay? Would be helpful to further this discussion.
Skrag
Profile Joined May 2010
United States643 Posts
October 15 2010 20:15 GMT
#70
On October 16 2010 03:39 Champ24 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2010 03:03 Spaceknight wrote:
8/9 1300+ diamond zergs tried this on me yesterday. All of them failed. Dropping a 2nd gate while chronoboosting zealots along with using worker probes to surround the zlings really defeats this.
Toss has to keep a steady production of zealots in order to eventually defeat the stream of zlings.

This is basically an All-in if it fails because you'll be way behind in production and income.


Replay? Would be helpful to further this discussion.


I'd be interested in seeing one or two of those replays too.
"Just go *@#$ing kill him!" -- Day[9] "Thanks for being a jackass though! Enjoy your time on the forums!" - Artosis
DarKFoRcE
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1215 Posts
October 15 2010 20:45 GMT
#71
if you want to build 2 drones and then an overlord i would suggest to use an 8 pool
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/PinDarKFoRcE
warriv13
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada2 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 20:53:05
October 15 2010 20:52 GMT
#72
On October 16 2010 03:39 Champ24 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2010 03:03 Spaceknight wrote:
8/9 1300+ diamond zergs tried this on me yesterday. All of them failed. Dropping a 2nd gate while chronoboosting zealots along with using worker probes to surround the zlings really defeats this.
Toss has to keep a steady production of zealots in order to eventually defeat the stream of zlings.

This is basically an All-in if it fails because you'll be way behind in production and income.


Replay? Would be helpful to further this discussion.


well the thing is it wouldnt further this discussion because it has nothing to do with it at all, the point of this thread as the OP stated several times is to make SIX FAST lings to harass the protoss

ONLY SIX

meanwhile you are pumping drones and expanding

I really like this idea even if it is micro intensive since it gives the zerg more options early game to fluster the toss
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
October 15 2010 20:53 GMT
#73
On October 16 2010 03:03 Spaceknight wrote:
8/9 1300+ diamond zergs tried this on me yesterday. All of them failed. Dropping a 2nd gate while chronoboosting zealots along with using worker probes to surround the zlings really defeats this.
Toss has to keep a steady production of zealots in order to eventually defeat the stream of zlings.

This is basically an All-in if it fails because you'll be way behind in production and income.

The 1300+ Zergs probably are in the beginning stages of using the strat, so aren't accustomed to controlling their units at this stage in the game. When adopting a new build order, there is always an adjustment period between when the steps are executed consciously and when they are executed automatically.
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
Benshin88
Profile Joined September 2010
United States183 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 21:51:01
October 15 2010 21:43 GMT
#74
Have you tried this build on Terran with the new patch? It might work. On a small map like Steppes of war. It can force the terran to build the 2nd depot + repair + have 4 Scv's off the line. The 1st Marine comes out like 10-15 seconds later then usual. They have to repair and use SCV's off line for a longer time then usual.

Mean while you can expo or drone up for a baneling attack.
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 21:52:41
October 15 2010 21:44 GMT
#75
On October 16 2010 05:45 DarKFoRcE wrote:
if you want to build 2 drones and then an overlord i would suggest to use an 8 pool


This has already been addressed, making 8 drones before pool delays the lings by 17 seconds (game time).

This gives plenty of time for that first zealot to be chrono boosted out and significantly reduces the pressure on the protoss player.

7 pool is the slowest pool you can make that still gets inside Ps base before the first zealot is out.

Timing is based on the very standard 12 gate opening.
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
ittarter
Profile Joined October 2010
United States13 Posts
October 16 2010 17:23 GMT
#76
On October 16 2010 02:33 Skrag wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 11:15 ittarter wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq9k2Xf_uPUThis seems a good counter to the all-in 6 pool. Dunno if you guys were aware of it.


GJ reading the thread, which doesn't describe a 6pool, and is not all-in.


Regardless the strategy is relevant to the thread posts re: defense against the six lings with zealot and probe wall.
I am the voice of the eclipse.
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