EPT[G] ZvP: I offer to TeamLiquid the Fail Pool - Page 3
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
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Chriamon
United States886 Posts
On October 14 2010 15:22 Adeny wrote: By the way this is hard countered easily by the protoss by simply blocking the bottom of zerg's ramp with 2 pylons, which seems un-intuitive but it delays for long enough to get a ling-proof wall at home. Catz vs Time on Steppes. Check it out. | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
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Crosswind
United States279 Posts
-Cross | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
Leaving an opening and blocking with ~4 probes while chrono boosting a single zealot is one of the better options I've come across. You will be about 4 probes ahead assuming you lose only 1 or 2 probes, but won't really be able to leave your base for the time being. From there, it really depends if you want to go for 2-gate pressure or rush straight to 4-gate or Void Ray. Nothing is particularly devastating to me and it feels like an easy expo, assuming I manage my map control well enough. I have a buddy who turtles up very hard early game and does a 12 gate -> zealot -> cannon -> expand every game. He will get his zealot out early enough to minimize the damage I deal to his economy, but isn't really far enough ahead of me to take advantage of it. The other major option is a complete wall with gateway + forge, cannon goes down immediately after forge finishes. This will significantly slow your 4-gate push, but while that forge is there, you can use it to get +1 weapons, then go with a zealot/sentry heavy 5-gate. I mentioned this earlier and I typically counter by getting +1 carapace myself, but it can be a very strong push for those few seconds when your +1 weapons is done and my carapace is still in the works. Really, I think this throws off all the timings for a strong 4-gate, so some new timing push that isn't common yet will be the proper response. | ||
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Pfeff
United States270 Posts
On October 14 2010 22:27 Viruuus wrote: You missunderstood me I said, 2 gateway wall with a zealot in the middle, not a pylon. The zealot can easily kill the zerglings trying to kill the gateways, and he will soon have a 2nd zealot out. dont tell me you can micro against the zealot, because you cant. Decent micro leave all 6 zerglings alive vs 1 zealot. It's very simple...take two hits, pull back an inch and go back to attacking, repeat | ||
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OreoBoi
Canada1639 Posts
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SmoKe93
Germany162 Posts
On October 14 2010 16:49 Sterling wrote: I was mid platinum with T and P then switched to Z and 6 pooled my way to 1500 diamond in 1 day And you won GSL later in the weekend right | ||
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Dont-Panic
Germany567 Posts
Here are the replays for those who are interested: http://www.esl.eu/de/pro-series/season17/sc2/1on1/download/23538542/ http://www.esl.eu/de/pro-series/season17/sc2/1on1/download/23538573/ | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
That said, a properly executed FFE will rock this every time on most maps. Forge at the bottom of the ramp to wall off and a quick cannon repels the lings, and then P has both more workers and an earlier expansion. On Xel'Naga Caverns, it's a little tougher to press the advantage with a super-early expansion because you need multiple cannons to cover your ramp and defend your nexus at the nat. Still, Z is far behind unless you screw up. | ||
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
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colmanaburn
United States3 Posts
How would you respond to this (seeing as you didnt see it coming since I am walled in). | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
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iSTime
1579 Posts
I don't remember exactly what happened that game, but I'm pretty sure the double pylon worked out pretty well for me, and I lost later due to banelings/getting outplayed. I think the double pylon wall at the bottom of your/the zerg's ramp is pretty cost-effective. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On October 15 2010 05:51 colmanaburn wrote: Anytime I get early pooled I have already got the cannon up and my chocke blocked, I proceed to tech sprint to stargate and get 2 phoenix and 1 Void ray. If the queens shoot i pick them up and roast them. Hydras, Mutas all the same. the minerals you sunk into those 6 zerglins are equal to my cannon, and I was going to make the forge anyway. How do you counter this? I can have have my three units out at around 7-8 minutes. I post a couple of replays when I get home if you wish. How would you respond to this (seeing as you didnt see it coming since I am walled in). This can be hard if you don't scout it. This can be compounded by the fact that it can be hard to scout. My solution is to scout aggressively, sacrificing an overlord at around 40 supply if I don't see anything satisfying. I like to make an extra queen for creep spreading and extra AA. I will already have an evo chamber down, so I can always slap down a few spore colonies if needed. The biggest risk is this going unscouted. If I can find the starport, there is very little risk for me. | ||
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Obsolescence
United States270 Posts
[G] Fighting Muta/Ling as Toss You've got a cute idea, but I fail to see how this OP, the idea, or the effort you've put into it warrant a [G] (guide) tag. Please don't dilute the meaning of [G]. This is a [D] (discussion) thread at best. Probably needs to be a [H] (help) thread. I'll go ahead and post the guidelines found in the 2nd thread of SC2 Strategy in case you feel my assessment is invalid. On February 24 2010 00:47 zatic wrote: [G] Guides Know what you are talking about Guides are complete, detailed, and comprehensive advice for a specific strategy or tactic that can be generally executed and is not situational. Guides are held up against the highest standards of quality in this forum. They are the most valuable resource for the average player. Writing a good guide may yield you wide appreciation and e-fame, but comes with a lot of work and responsibility. Naturally, do not write a guide about something you are not experienced with. If you have come up with a new build and you just won 6 games in a row with it, do not start writing a guide. Play your build more, tweak it, find out it’s weaknesses and follow-ups and branches. A good rule of thumb is to play a strategy until you lose a couple of times with it against different counters, then modify it until you win most games again, then start to think about writing a guide. A good guide does not necessarily have to be written about a build in a specific matchup, although that is most common. If you have found a new, incredibly effective way to micro Helions you can write a generic Helion micro guide. Most of the time guides will introduce builds in specific matchups though. Look through our legacy Strategy forum to get an idea on how to write good matchup build guides. There is no perfect recipe, but a few things to take care of: State the goal of the build, strengths, weaknesses, possible follow-up, and adaptations to what the opponent does. Dedicate a chapter to scouting and how to react to what you see within your build. To give you an idea of the quality we are eventually aiming for have a look at this incredible SC:BW guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=89265 | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
On October 14 2010 20:16 Jermstuddog wrote: Lets call it the "Double Gateway Wall-in." It is a complete wall in with 2 gateways exposed and a pylon holding the small area between unless I'm misunderstanding you. I have encountered this quite often and it is one of my favorite ones to come across. I can body block your gateways with my lings back and forth while you spam zealots, this will cause all your zealots to spawn inside your base rather than outside, so they're useless until I kill BOTH gateways. This gives me a massive lead due to the fact that you have to build ANOTHER gateway before you can even start your cybernetics core and get to teching. I also saw somebody mention the 2 pylon + cannon block at the Zergs ramp. 7 Pool will have lings out fast enough to kill both pylons at the bottom of the ramp before the cannon finishes. It is the same effect as a blind forge -> cannon build where you know he is not going to be aggressive for the next few minutes so you can feel free to power drone quite heavily. As far as the +1 upgrade, I will say that this is one of the stronger follow-ups that I have come up against. I personally prefer to ling until I have 60-80 lings, so this is particularly potent against my follow-up build as well. What I have found is placing an overlord to keep watch of the protoss players forge helps. If I see it upgrading, I will slap down a 2nd evo chamber and get +1 carapace ASAP. Still, there are some very strong timing windows that appear as protoss can chronoboost their +1 weapons before my +1 carapace is finished. And +1 weapons 5 gate pushes are completely viable if you go very zealot/sentry heavy. 4 stalkers = 500 minerals, 5 zealots also = 500 minerals. I am not calling this fool-proof, there is a lot of skill involved on both sides, but at the current time, I am finding it to be a viable opening that puts me at an advantage unless I mess up. hey man, cool thread. i like this idea and I've actually seen CatZ use it quite a few times. he does a 7pool that forces opponent to make cannons or whatever, then just transitions into totally normal game and ends up stomping the guy on 5 bases xD I just wanted to ask you if you could clarifiy the "body block" that forces the zealot to spawn on the inside? Could you explain how you do that? If you give a screenshot that would be awesome, but I understand if thats too much trouble  Edit: On October 15 2010 05:58 PJA wrote: IMO just go study catz' replays if you want to see how to transition out of 7 pool well. See this guy beat me to the catz thing | ||
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ittarter
United States13 Posts
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
Sorry for not including enough pretty pictures. I am not asking for help on how to properly execute a Fail Pool rush. I know very well how to do it and I am sharing that knowledge with TL. I could have labelled it [D] as I intended to answer any questions people may have about it that I didn't cover specifically in the OP, but I figured the [G] tag fit best with what I wanted to do, which is share a strategy that I have found to be viable at mid-diamond levels. I will add more bold text to the OP if it makes you feel better. edit: Bolds added sir, sorry for the inconvenience. | ||
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Adeny
Norway1233 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=catz vs time&aq=f I haven't seen every single vod, check it out. | ||
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