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great thread made by someone, never actually thought of this until not.
original topic: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/791239597
EDIT: some of you people think i made it! i didnt! i am simply informing you of a new micro trick.
i person credited with this is Thorn, praise him!
If you liked the magic box, you will like this even more.
There is a micro technique you can use to wipe out early Thor + SCV rushes with equal ammounts of resources, and with considerably less losses.
Test: 40 zerglings vs 1 Thor + 10 scvs
1000m vs 800m/200g
I have tried this a few times now and it has worked every time.
Sometimes the zerglings actually force the SCVs away from the thor and do tons of damage to the thor, other times they hit the scvs and kill them. Either way it causes you to win.
http://www.xfire.com/video/375d62/
In the video all SCVs are set to auto move to thor to repair it (Instead of repairing eachother first), also works if SCVs are set to auto repair.
To execute this maneuver, right click the thor, then hit hold position, right click again, hold position, etc.
When the zerglings circle the thor, they are in very close proximity to the scvs. When you hit hold position, the zerglings circling will attack the scvs, because the ai will not let them move to try to engage the thor. The zerglings who were already attacking, will not be affected, and infact prevent scvs from shoving them out of the way.
You have now learned the speedling slipknot.
If you like this, be sure to comment and hit the like button on the side.
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nice find! I am loving these neat little mico tricks as zerg
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very nice find. thank you.
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Excellent, this will surely help early TvZ. My only fear is blizzard will see this as a bug and nerf it D: Great find though in seriousness, hope this gets spotlighted.
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Wow... I never thought of that. Definitely going to use that with my zealots as P. Thanks!
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Hmm... This should also work against a planetary fortress to some degree as well. Thanks man, awesome find, we shall call this... muppeting.
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I think he already named it slipknotting..
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Kind of interesting how all these anti terran zerg tricks are anti-thor
you probably should have named the thread How to deal with Thor repair. Zergling Slipnot is a little confusing
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I love seeing these cool new tricks, even if they are going to be used against me in the long run :p
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I've seen the hold position to kill repairing SCVs here before, although without a video and special name.
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Well 40 Zerglings for a Thor is a bit much <_> What do you need vs say... 5 Thors? 200 Zerglings?
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I've seen people suggest holding position in other threads and have it dismissed out of hand as impractical -- so maybe calling it the "Zergling Slipknot" is a good way to get people to use it.
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Blizzard should just fix the AI priorities. Priorities are really messed up right now.
Back in BW weren't workers high priority?
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It shouldn't be called muppeting, because a fellow posting it on the Bnet forums. That's why he started off by saying "great thread made by someone". It could be called Slipknotting, but that Thorn guy didn't invent the technique either. It's been around for a short while, I'll try to find a VOD where a pro uses it.
One thing to note is that although this works well against small numbers of thors, it quickly becomes useless once the Terran gets 3 or more. The SCVs end up snuggling in nicely between the multiple thors and the surface area that the zerglings can attack becomes much smaller.
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Interesting find. Might try with zealots but... I don't see it working out very well.
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Interesting technique. Looks useful for stopping those 1-base allin Thor SCV pushes.
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Nice find, you could also use this on Terrans repairing there bunker
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On September 30 2010 13:14 Raiden X wrote:
Blizzard should just fix the AI priorities. Priorities are really messed up right now.
Back in BW weren't workers high priority?
No back in BW we didn't have auto repair and the only large unit that can be repaired (so manual repairing is actually useful) is battlecruiser which get owned by swarmed hydra.
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I'm gonna call it "hold surround."
Sounds like a useful tool.
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personally, like someone said on the original post, noose or noosing seems quite appropriate.
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smart way to do it, i love it, imagine how much better it would be with like 4 or 5 roaches dpsing down the thor!
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This isn't new, there have been threads about countering thor repair with hold position for weeks at the very least.
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On September 30 2010 13:11 Shikyo wrote:
Well 40 Zerglings for a Thor is a bit much <_> What do you need vs say... 5 Thors? 200 Zerglings?
Yeah 40 lings for this is a bit much, but I think the vid was designed to show an equal amount of resources. He actually has quite a few lings left over after the thor goes down.
My concern is if the scvs were repairing each other or not, just following the thor might've made them not repair each other?
It seems like they would if they were on auto repair, but I'd like to confirm this.
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Awesome, thx for bringing this to our attn as i never use the BNet forums...
Thorn ftw!
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the thor really is having a hard time.
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people are finding it difficult to defeat SCVs around thors..
pure theorycraft - roach meatshield to take initial hit then bling grind against thors?
(where you move them in back and forth around the thor so the blings roll around the thor and splash the scvs?)
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I've been testing this in the unit tester and it's pretty awesome. I'm not that excited about it for taking down thors, simply because this wont be effective against large numbers of thors.
However, it's huuuge against PFs. Basically, any unit on hold position targets the units closest to it. So, if you run your slings back to where the scvs are repairing and put them on hold position, they will target the SCVs. Or, if you are attacking a mineral line and dont want your lings to get distracted by a single stalker shooting at them, hold position and they will focus the workers who run by (until, of course, your opponent runs them away).
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this is a great contribution! all threads should be this helpful. Thanks for the tip. A nice simple way of dealing with a very frustrating and powerful tactic. thanks!
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nice, could try this out..
but i find it quite a hassle since during engagements, zerg will need to micro so much, and now with this..
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Can work to break PFs as well with splings and charge-lots
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i wish people would stop giving "new" micro tricks special names.. its getting ridiculous
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On September 30 2010 22:57 hazz wrote:
i wish people would stop giving "new" micro tricks special names.. its getting ridiculous
I can't wait to show of my skill at hazzing in a few weeks.
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On September 30 2010 13:00 ThE.SparkZ wrote:
Excellent, this will surely help early TvZ. My only fear is blizzard will see this as a bug and nerf it D: Great find though in seriousness, hope this gets spotlighted.
This is in no way a bug, it just relies on the hold position making the lings attack the adjacent scvs. It is similar to hold position in a mineral line (otherwise the lings ignore mining scvs and run back out to attack the enemy army).
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What a garbage name. People need to stop trying to name everything.
Wasn't this already common knowledge, though?
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Never actually thoughta that. Awesome I'm definitely going to do this when I encounter it 
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this is a great find, wow.
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Why are people suggesting that this will work against planetary fortress? Zerglings get ass raped by PF, zerglings are about the worst unit you could send against a PF, in fact because that thing one shots 4+ lings at a time. maybe with 100 food worth of lings you could possibly take one down but the trade off isn't anywhere economical in the least.
on a side note planetary fortresses are retarded...
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Can we not try to name everything? xD Besides, this has been brought up many times before, apologies to Thorn.
And this doesn't work nearly as well when you have more than 2 thors, or just a general mix of other T units. In the heat of a battle, banelings do a way better job of getting rid of the SCVs (among other things). If only 1 or 2 isolated thors, you can use zerglings+hold, but they're usually not alone.
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now how to do this vs 3 thors and 9 blue helions with 15 scvs? just add more lings?
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Sweden33719 Posts
On September 30 2010 13:14 Raiden X wrote:
Blizzard should just fix the AI priorities. Priorities are really messed up right now.
Back in BW weren't workers high priority?
... No, back in BW workers were so low on the priority list that you could very easily use them to defend vs things like 6 pool or proxy-gates etc.
There just werent any 400 hp ground units lol
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Can anyone confirm this working with other units like Roachs or hydras? Cause then it's a whole 'nother level....
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I used this when there was just thors and tanks being repaired.
Here is the actual problem
Hellions, and cliffs.
Thors on cliffs cant be hit by zerglings, and thus this trick is null and void then.
Hellions DESTROY lings. Regardless of your micro.
Using hold position on lings is especially handy in mineral lines. Where if you attack move you will attack a zealot for example, while with hold position you will kill the workers. This is really great against planetary fortresses.
In enormous thor numbers, even a couple of hellions is enough to make this void.
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Can this be used for other things? Splitting forces, breaking concaves, etc.
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On October 01 2010 00:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2010 13:14 Raiden X wrote:
Blizzard should just fix the AI priorities. Priorities are really messed up right now.
Back in BW weren't workers high priority? ... No, back in BW workers were so low on the priority list that you could very easily use them to defend vs things like 6 pool or proxy-gates etc. There just werent any 400 hp ground units lol
What do you mean by priority?
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On October 01 2010 00:07 RoarMan wrote:
Can anyone confirm this working with other units like Roachs or hydras? Cause then it's a whole 'nother level....
If only there was a way to get roaches/hydras to shoot at a thor instead of having their shots blocked by the repairing scvs...
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On October 01 2010 00:27 Wohmfg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 00:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On September 30 2010 13:14 Raiden X wrote:
Blizzard should just fix the AI priorities. Priorities are really messed up right now.
Back in BW weren't workers high priority? ... No, back in BW workers were so low on the priority list that you could very easily use them to defend vs things like 6 pool or proxy-gates etc. There just werent any 400 hp ground units lol What do you mean by priority?
Priority is just an order of importance that the AI uses when deciding what to attack. An example would be using A-move into an opponents base and they have an evo chamber and a roach. Your units will attack the roach first because it has a higher priority. Jinro is saying that a ling rush in BW could be stopped with workers cause the workers were the last thing that the lings AI wanted to attack.
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i would like to see a video of the same units fighting without the slipknot to see what the difference is.
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yay so i can finally kill planetary fortress with zealots now props to thorn, great finding
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TO anyone who said "you're dumb why would you do this against PFs"
You don't just send lings at a PF, you hold position the lings near the SCVs while the rest of your army kills and tanks the PF
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is there ANY way to lose with 40 speedlings to a thor and 8/10 scv repairing ?
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On October 01 2010 06:30 noD wrote:
is there ANY way to lose with 40 speedlings to a thor and 8/10 scv repairing ?
um yea pretty sure if you attack move the lings they will get raped by a thor with 8-10 scv's repairing... they just run around the thor like chickens with their head cut off because the SCV's deny a good surround... that's why you would use this method..
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This is so obvious, really. I'm surprised people didn't think of this earlier 
Also really useful for protoss.
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okay could you post a video of 10 SCVs surrounding thor like that that are on auto-repair? Since the Thor beats the lings in my tests
EDIT: nvm I just suck, but it's much much closer if you actually right click autorepair instead of doing what you did
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I know almost nothing about this issue, but cant 40 speedlings beat a thor and 6 scvs in any situation?
Will A-moving zerglings not try to hit the SCV's?
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On October 01 2010 06:56 bobcat wrote:Will A-moving zerglings not try to hit the SCV's?
Welcome to our world.
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I posted it in the bnet thread as well, but you get similar results if you alternate stop and hold position which is a bit simpler than clicking the thor and works on multiple thors.
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Cool trick, even cooler name :D
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This might work with zealots as well. And the trick should also work for killing a PF.
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Oh yes, it might work with zealots too! It's almost as if the post right above you mentions zealots doing this specifically.
Why do I post here when no-one actually reads any of the posts?
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Repairing SCVs should have the same threat level as attacking units. Attacking and repairing both affect the health levels of units, so it makes sense to me at least.
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Found out about this a few weeks ago.... messaged HD and Psy asking them to make a video of so as to educate the Brood, but so far nothing.
Regardless, great bit of knowledge. I got owned by a single Thor being repaired once... that was my impetus to find a way to counter it.
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United States7166 Posts
remember dont try this when there are medivacs there to heal the scvs, you wont kill ANYTHING
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in my opinion repairing workers should be prioritized and then these silly Thor all ins would not be ridiculous to begin with
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On October 03 2010 08:48 StormWeapon wrote:
This might work with zealots as well. And the trick should also work for killing a PF.
Lol, good luck killing a PF with just lings
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@bobcat: a +0/1 Thor with autorepair scvs can kill a startling number of Zerg units. I have a mid diamond play buddy whose standard Zerg build is thors, and he got the "Kill 40 units with a single unit in a ladder game" achievement really easily with it.
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It all depends on the situation. Surely you would have scouted his Thor?
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A refinement to this micro I found while testing it:
The zerglings like to run 'around' (out of melee range) of the SCVs a lot of the time, so what you can do is do the first hold position, then stop + hold position quickly (like scoot+shoot speed) a few times, and they will scoot closer to the SCVs/Thor.
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Why didn't I think of this!? Thanks ^^
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On October 03 2010 12:14 NATO wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2010 08:48 StormWeapon wrote:
This might work with zealots as well. And the trick should also work for killing a PF. Lol, good luck killing a PF with just lings
Im a toss, thinking more about zealots and archons.
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is this (speedling slipknot) better than using the Patrol command?
i mean u just have to patrol them near the thor/scvs and they will attacks what they can, the scvs then the thor.
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Ugh, first magic box now this :O Terran is just gonna get harder and harder to play
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Interesting technique. I don't see how this will help with groups of Thors, though, or when Thors are mixed with support units (as they always are).
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On October 06 2010 08:39 Nub4ever wrote:Ugh, first magic box now this :O Terran is just gonna get harder and harder to play
harder to play? you mean you can no longer send a single thor and a bunch of SCV's and auto-win? not being able to do that must be really hard
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Against larger groups of Thors (without support units of course), couldn't you just get a surround, and then alternate pressing S to stop and H to hold? Yeah, right clicking a Thor wouldn't work well against multiple Thors, but wouldn't the zerglings handle the surround themselves if you release them with a stop order?
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On October 06 2010 08:36 rza wrote:
is this (speedling slipknot) better than using the Patrol command?
i mean u just have to patrol them near the thor/scvs and they will attacks what they can, the scvs then the thor.
Knew about the "slipknot" but not about this apparent control ability... hmm....
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Can't belive I hav'nt thought of this, in my defense I'm a protoss and workers doesn't autoattack, great find
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I thought pressing hold to kill repairing workers was a known trick since many a week ago.
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yeah knew about the hold thing but is it true that patrol works?
I mean thats a helluva lot better
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EPT
