EPT1gate 1 stargate PVZ pheonix play - Page 4
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Minigun
619 Posts
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pwadoc
271 Posts
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Fiel
United States587 Posts
On October 06 2010 03:00 pwadoc wrote: How does this work against a zerg who gets 4-5 queens? It fails. http://www.sendspace.com/file/e7xxly I'm gold and the other guy is platinum. He went 4 phoenix and harassed my OLs, but he was not able to take my queens. I never tech switched from mass lings. I think he was waiting for me to go hydras. I think he lost the game only due to bad last second sentry micro than the strategy being bad, but I was able to hold my own against him. Had I expanded, I would have lost due to only 2-3 queens per base which are easily gravitoned. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Granted, phoenix pick off stray infestors pretty easily. But the scary part is that infestors are generally followed up with ultras, and zerg can handle immortals very easily when the protoss doesn't have a big gateway army to help out the immortals. | ||
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asdfTT123
United States989 Posts
Of course, Phoenix has obvious advantages such as better scouting and is more likely to force Hydra tech. However, to FE with this build safely you'll sometimes need cannons and sim-city because there's a large window where an aggressive zerg can push to end the game or at least deny your expo. I think people should experiment with a mix of Phoenix and Voids. Obviously, both are on the same tech tree but there could be a useful synergy with the two combined (i.e. Phoenix lifting queen and Void charging and focusing it down as a simple example). | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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Minigun
619 Posts
On October 06 2010 03:26 asdfTT123 wrote: This build is nothing new. It's basically a twist on Void ray FE (aka protoss 1/1/1 or 2/1/1 vs zerg). I prefer voids over phoenix because it grants ability to charge up and do more serious damage (i.e. kill tech) and it allows you to defend against heavy roach pressure where Phoenix FE will not. You can also end the game against an unprepared opponent. Voids also allow you to run around killing creep tumors with an obs when your robo is done - minimizing the effectiveness of their hydra. Of course, Phoenix has obvious advantages such as better scouting and is more likely to force Hydra tech. However, to FE with this build safely you'll sometimes need cannons and sim-city because there's a large window where an aggressive zerg can push to end the game or at least deny your expo. I think people should experiment with a mix of Phoenix and Voids. Obviously, both are on the same tech tree but there could be a useful synergy with the two combined (i.e. Phoenix lifting queen and Void charging and focusing it down as a simple example). Voids and phoenix are not the same thing, since when are there too many guides? Voids are basically useless, if they got more than two queens which most seem to do, 5 phoenix can take on 4 queens, if they have 2 at one base and two at another, as long as you strike them fast, and pick up the 2nd one before he transfuses, with micro. I much prefer phoenix, to force hydras, and not do a basically all in with voids. If they only made two queens it's basically a game over. You can hold off the attacks just long enough to get a colos out, the only times I lose my nat is when I forget to put down a robo bay while using phoenix (especially with this new bug) | ||
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asdfTT123
United States989 Posts
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JrK
United States283 Posts
On October 06 2010 03:36 asdfTT123 wrote: Also why do you opt for stalker before sentry? I realize I'm nitpicking your build but isn't sentry first the safer option esp against ling pressure? That was my question as well. I've not played this build out, but maybe it's to use the gas elsewhere? | ||
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Minigun
619 Posts
On October 06 2010 03:36 asdfTT123 wrote: Also why do you opt for stalker before sentry? I realize I'm nitpicking your build but isn't sentry first the safer option esp against ling pressure? I like denying that overlord that always comes, if early pressure does come you can pull off a few probes, but I've never needed too. | ||
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whiteguycash
United States476 Posts
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Quepp42
United States96 Posts
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Minigun
619 Posts
On October 06 2010 03:40 Quepp42 wrote: can phoenix pick up burrowed units? If not, I feel like burrow would pretty much negate phoenix harass. I would prefer it if he tried to burrow his drones every time I came by. | ||
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bobcat
United States488 Posts
On September 30 2010 04:21 Minigun wrote: Well thanks to the new pheonix bug this build is basically useless for now, hehe. Yeah.... are they planning on fixing that or is this just a new thing we have to do now? | ||
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Minigun
619 Posts
On October 06 2010 03:49 bobcat wrote: Yeah.... are they planning on fixing that or is this just a new thing we have to do now? I'm sure it will be fixed, whether it's patch 1.04 or 1.47 who knows. | ||
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phil.ipp
Austria1067 Posts
the basic idea of this strategy is for me, i build phoenixes so i have map control and the zerg will think twice about going mutas. then i switch to collosi and from there on i have a good chance of winning. what i would question is building 4-5 or more phoenixes cause all it will do is slow the zerg down but it also slows you down from getting fast to collosi 1-2 phoenixes sends the message: i have map control, i will know if you switch to mutas, and i will add a second stargate and stomp you if you do it. then i kill 2-3 overlords and 2-3 drones - so that the phoenixes are worth the money. with 4-5 phoenixes i think i would give the zerg a bigger window where he can just overrun me with lings and roaches .. or he sees you commited heavily on phoenixes so he just expands a third time, either way you get screwed. also 1-2 phoenixes can be handled from a player below 100 apm cause they dont have to do much damage, just fly with them around sometime. 4-5 phoenixes have to do much more damage and cause of that need much more attention, and you have to expand and macro hard in the meantime, all that need apm apm apm .. im not saying more phoenixes are bad, but you should only build more than 2 if you know you have the apm to really do damage and macro at the same time. | ||
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Entr0py
Germany11 Posts
But i have some questions: In your replays u always pick up the queens first. Don't u think it is more wise to go straight for the drones, especially when he has more than one queen at his hatch? If that's the case u could move out already with your 3. pheonix. Sure killing a queen is good, but for zerg it is not such a huge loss. And like u said even with two queens, with proper micro u can go in and pick up 2-3 drones every time. To the phoenix bug: can someone confirm it really is a bug and not the original intention of blizzard? For blizzard to make such a mistake.... | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
On September 29 2010 02:26 Minigun wrote: I don't think it can hold vs a 5 rr all ins. Surprisingly, it can hold vs this too. I've been trying this out a lot lately and if your probe sees 1 base play, all you need to do is build void rays instead of phoenixes. They're on one hatch and can't build queens fast enough and you're mostly likely going to be able to stall long enough with forcefeilds/wallin for the voids to clean up their 5rr. | ||
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SONE
Canada839 Posts
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Minigun
619 Posts
On October 06 2010 07:52 SONE wrote: In the replay against lost, i assume that 2nd robo bay was a mistake? still watching through almost done yeah just a retarded moment | ||
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