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Zvendetta
United States321 Posts
With this scouting information, good strategy has room for dynamic gameplay. As far as mass roach spam goes, protoss MUST eventually switch to robo tech and get that immort out, this will take away from air play, but its a must. You can defend a 5RR with a sentry alone with good enough control, split as they try running up the ramp, and even roaches with range 4 the stalkers can focus fire the seperated units. The sentry also prevents ling reinforcements should the zerg go all in. | ||
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rozina
Slovenia72 Posts
What should I do in terms of this build? I tryed to do some early pressure with 2 zealots and 2 stalkers one game witch was nice (killed an ovie) until a bunch of speedlings came out and killed them all  I know i could have macroed that game better and saved my expansion, since he went muta zergling and phoenixes cleaned mutas. However, I understand this build's point is to make zerg go hydras. In my case, mutas and my phoenixes came out at the same time. Any tips are welcome | ||
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addohm
2 Posts
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shouri
90 Posts
On October 20 2010 07:23 rozina wrote: I meet a lot of zergs lately and I have some problems with the ones that tech really fast. Most of them go early hatch (15-23 or so) and just make 2-6 lings and then go straight to lair and have hydras or mutas out before my 4th phoenix is out. I feel like that zergs don't fear any early agression so they just skip the army and go for tech. What should I do in terms of this build? I tryed to do some early pressure with 2 zealots and 2 stalkers one game witch was nice (killed an ovie) until a bunch of speedlings came out and killed them all I know i could have macroed that game better and saved my expansion, since he went muta zergling and phoenixes cleaned mutas. However, I understand this build's point is to make zerg go hydras. In my case, mutas and my phoenixes came out at the same time. Any tips are welcome If you deny scouting with your stalker and build your stargate in the middle of your base zergs will tend to think it's some kind of 4 gate opening a lot of the time and they'll definitely build some roaches or lings with a couple of spinecrawlers. | ||
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rozina
Slovenia72 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
imo you pretty much need a 2nd base faster, or mass-anything will kill you; currently I'm testing the 2-fast-stalker opening (as seen eg. from nexgenius in his opening gsl-match) into a fairly fast expo into stargate; if zerg did go for fast hydras then you are still better off just taking the map and denying overlords compared to the one gate stargate opening, since the faster 2nd base allows for a much smoother transition into colossi if it works for the OP it's great, would love to see some post patch reps though | ||
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johngalt90
United States357 Posts
\that being said FE into double stargate for phoenix is pretty great check this out for some inspiration ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-159606.jpg) | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On October 22 2010 18:37 johngalt90 wrote: \that being said FE into double stargate for phoenix is pretty great check this out for some inspiration without watching the rep I have to agree that shakuras is one of the most perfect maps for phoenixes - simply because all bases after the natural are so wide spread that zerg just "can't" be everywhere at once if you pin zerg down with phoenixes you have ages to tech to colossi and an awsome ramp to stop any early tries | ||
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wxwx
527 Posts
I think 1 basing toss is not frightening for zerg once the 4gate timing is past. Roach range makes this worse. If I were to use phoenix I would do it after I have secured an expo i would love to be proven wrong by some pro level replays~ post away! | ||
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Woony
Germany6657 Posts
On October 22 2010 19:09 wxwx wrote: can someone post some pro replays please? (top level, not diamond) I think 1 basing toss is not frightening for zerg once the 4gate timing is past. Roach range makes this worse. If I were to use phoenix I would do it after I have secured an expo i would love to be proven wrong by some pro level replays~ post away! No one does 1 base Phoenix anymore. But you have to take into mind, the opening post was made 3 weeks ago. A more modern version would be 2 base Phoenix. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Here's a replay for all you low-mid Protoss players wondering how this works when you aren't solid on all aspects of play. It features *Probe + Pylon expo delay *Queen / Sporecrawler defense *Great units lost tab from 5 phoenix ^.^ Danglars vs. Hrh 1280 diamond vs 1484 diamond Zerg http://rapidshare.com/files/427000843/PvZ_-_Metalopo_-_Danglars_vs_hrh.SC2Replay Note: My macro during the harass is incredibly low, and he scouted the build at 3 phoenixes leading to an earlier attack from me. Timings are late due to my execution and the pylon at natural. | ||
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adrift
192 Posts
On October 22 2010 19:09 wxwx wrote: can someone post some pro replays please? (top level, not diamond) I think 1 basing toss is not frightening for zerg once the 4gate timing is past. Roach range makes this worse. If I were to use phoenix I would do it after I have secured an expo i would love to be proven wrong by some pro level replays~ post away! http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/show/id/2336 http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/show/id/2335 Two games from GSL showing FE into 2x stargate phoenix. The protoss is very good. He goes 15 Nexus because of the two maps but you could do basically the same thing opening FFE or one-gate expand. | ||
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ChineseWife
United States373 Posts
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Minigun
619 Posts
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bovineblitz
United States314 Posts
On September 29 2010 05:03 ichangedmyname wrote: Don't see what the phoenix had to do with the game against CellaWerra. You basically all in'ed a fast void ray against him all'inning a bling bust. Looked to me like and adjustment of the strategy based on what the opponent did. | ||
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Foolio
36 Posts
I'm having to modify my opening now when playing protoss, but ultimately I think I'll play this similar to how'd I'd play anyways. 15 hatch / 14 pool / 14 extractor That's how I open. I'll go straight to roaches usually. Seeing your wall off and not being able to fully detect what you're doing, my opening isn't going to really change. If you go 4 gates - I want hydra roach If you go 3 gate/robo - I want hydra roach corruptor If you go x gate/air - I want hydra roach corruptor I'm finding now that so many toss are going for phoenix's that it's a must I assume they'll be getting them. There's typically a window before hydras though where I'm vulnerable. I'll usually get a few hydras up about the time I've lost 2 lords and a queen. If I see the toss has FE'd I'll usually have a single spore up in each mineral line and push hydras earlier. Not sure if this helps you guys. Don't know how most zerg are responding. I'm definitely having to figure out a new way to deal with toss due to heavy phoenix play. | ||
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bovineblitz
United States314 Posts
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
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Shadrak
United States490 Posts
On October 27 2010 00:13 Arcanefrost wrote: zerg can just mass economy becauseyou have a very small ground army, i dont think this is good Its true this leaves Z safe to drone, but it also deals a strong blow to their econ via queen/OL/drone killing. When this is done right I think Toss and Zerg come out roughly even on econ but toss has achieved muta prevention and map control. | ||
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xxxfunbobxxx
7 Posts
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