|
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On July 02 2012 00:56 arie3000 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 00:43 Mavvie wrote:On July 02 2012 00:08 arie3000 wrote:
I have some issues vs. P. Ok, I'm in the lower leagues so there's a lot to improve on, but I lose a disproportionate amount of games to P lately.
I try to do this Roach-ling style, meaning that a good player is maxed at 11-12 minutes, while I am at 13-14 minutes. Often I can kill the third, and contain the P at least for a while. Then, they often tech a bit more (on 2 base), get 2 colli and just crush me.
I feel that the roach unit composition is very fragile, in the sense that when the P breaks you, it is gg, because a maxed Z army won't stand a chance.
Is it wise to tech to hive earlier? I have difficulties in the transition, teching too hard can lose you a game, but if they come with their 180 pop deathball it is gg too... I've tried to make forests of spine crawlers (which helps), but it doesn't really work on maps like cloud kingdom, they can either attack the nat or the third, and it is not all 'coverable' with spines. Making this many spines feels a little stupid too, there should be a better way of solving this.... If you really want to continue roach/ling max a la Stephano, it is perfectly viable in every league except top master+ I believe. The trick to hitting an 11 minute max is do a solid opener (15p 16h, 4:15 third, when first queen finishes, inject main then transfer, remake queen at main) After that it's just hitting injects, making drones, and not getting supply blocked. Once the roach/ling starts to flow, P should never even get a probe to their third, unless they did some cheesy blind counter (ex. Double robo immortal). Typically, I take all the rest of my gas when I'm nearing max, and I expand + macro hatch. If you're trading constantly, P should never get two colo. it always helps to drop a spire when you see a robo, but don't make corruptors until you see colo. ProTip: spire + hive take the exact same time to morph! Start both at same time, instant greater spire! As a side note, broodlords aren't the only option. Ling/bane/infestor/ultra is REALLY good. Ultras kill colo better than corruptors hahaha. I believe Belial has an awesome ZvP guide on ling/infestor, it's a nice alternative to lolol0roacheslolol. Thanks! I never managed to max-out in 11 minutes, but it is a good build to practice macro. So what is the right response when P is just sitting on 2 base when you arrive? attacking up the ramp is just suicide, FF + immortals makes for VERY efficient trading in P's favour, but your army is very poor DPS/supply. Should you try to prevent the 3rd as long as possible, while teching hard to hive? I feel that this is the way to do it properly, produce a ton of roaches, attack, expand AND tech while attacking. Or 'fuck those roaches' and turtle up and go to hive quickly.
When P is doing a 2base turtle, I recommend morphing 3 overseers and scouting all of his base, while poking at the front. Send 1 roach up the ramp, if it gets fried by colo beams then you know you need corruptors! Typically if they haven't taken a third by 10:00 youve won the game haha. Yes, fast tech to hive! But make sure to get infestors, they're so OP they're a must xD. I would say keep making roach/ling until it stops working, then counter what they did! Again, in lower leagues, throw down a spire as soon as you can afford it! If they take a third you go muta/ling fast hive, if they go colo you make corruptors, if they do neither then you're only 200/200 poorer 
Again, broodlords aren't THAT good. They're super immobile and don't have much dps for their cost. They're also super squishy haha.
Actually, I think my Protoss is at gold league level, wanna play a game sometime? :D
|
I have problems in mid and late game. Due to my macro slipping, and me failing to prepare for the huge protoss (or terran) death ball.
http://drop.sc/211496
In this game I did very bad in the end battle. But what I need help on, is how to beat an army like that (it isn't huge, but hurts!):
- 1 zealot
- 18 stalkers with blink
- 5 sentries
- 3 immortals
- 2 collossi
- +2 attack
The map is day break and it is hard to engage from different angles there, I feel. Not so many huge areas, and a long run-around.
I experimented with units in the Sandbox and found out that the fastest (and cheapest) was:
- 85 lings
- 16 roaches
- 8 corrupters
- +2 melee, +2 carapace (preparing for broodlords).
It took me around 14 minutes (edit: 2nd test took 13 mins) to get an army like that (I could improve on various areas though), but is that a wrong goal for me to set, to counter a future player that FFE's and goes collossi? On Daybreak?
I often lose these battles vs the big armies of protoss or terran that hurts. Mostly because of macro and that I tech slowly, but also because I might not have the right counter and too late spot what they do late game.
So hope you can help me out...
|
I recall a thread in which someone explained how to defend against various early pool openings in ZvZ. I can't for the life of me find it anywhere--anyone know which one I'm talking about and have a link to it?
|
|
|
I previously asked 4 questions, 3 got answered (thanks a ton! :D), but I am left with one huge question:
In ZvZ, after you have a lot of roaches, do you get hydras, infestors, or both? I used to always go infestor, but one game i made ~10 hydras ~30 roaches and 4 infestors and literally roflstomped an equal size army...What's your preference?
|
On July 02 2012 05:22 Mavvie wrote:
I previously asked 4 questions, 3 got answered (thanks a ton! :D), but I am left with one huge question:
In ZvZ, after you have a lot of roaches, do you get hydras, infestors, or both? I used to always go infestor, but one game i made ~10 hydras ~30 roaches and 4 infestors and literally roflstomped an equal size army...What's your preference?
On June 28 2012 16:09 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 16:01 Sapp wrote:
^I don't know how have you been testing that roach vs roach/hydra, but that is like totaly wrong. --..-- Um just to be clear roach/hydra is better then pure roach. Not sure if you are saying why he thought pure roach was better or if you are thinking pure roach is better, roach/hydra > pure roaches anyway. A composition you should be going for is roach/infestor and then adding hydras or roach/hydra then adding infestors. I personally prefer roach/hydra then adding infestors as it's a strong composition zvz. roach/hydra/infestor will crush a roach/infestor army (or at least I do unless I was super behind all game)
It works for me, too.
|
Hey, what is actually a good way to play against a Protoss one base opener (nothing allin-ish)?
I am just not able to estimate the army size withe 1/3 Gate expands and I am usually dying against pressure pushes, because I totally underestimated the situation and overdroned ...
I am a Muta Ling player btw..
|
On July 02 2012 05:39 FeelTHeBluEZ wrote:
Hey, what is actually a good way to play against a Protoss one base opener (nothing allin-ish)?
I am just not able to estimate the army size withe 1/3 Gate expands and I am usually dying against pressure pushes, because I totally underestimated the situation and overdroned ...
I am a Muta Ling player btw..
I also have a funny time playing against gateway expands.
I feel one of the main things you need to look at is the sentry count; if they have lots of them as in 6+ it's highly likely that the protoss is doing a gateway allin, if so react as per usual if you opened gasless 3 hatch, pumping units from around 8:00 again.
There are lots of other things to take notice of but really thats been the main issue for me, once you see them take a 3rd it's essentially as though they ffe'd in the first place...except delayed by a few mins.
You mention that your a mutaling player, so you may be able to force a basetrade the second they try and be aggressive against you.
|
On July 02 2012 05:39 FeelTHeBluEZ wrote:
Hey, what is actually a good way to play against a Protoss one base opener (nothing allin-ish)?
I am just not able to estimate the army size withe 1/3 Gate expands and I am usually dying against pressure pushes, because I totally underestimated the situation and overdroned ...
I am a Muta Ling player btw..
The second you scout a Gateway opener throw down a gas (so that would be around 15-17 supply) after you do the standard 14pool 16 hatch. Get to 100 gas and then take gas drones off and get speed. 5:30 is the fastest warpgate research can complete, so start ling production 30 seconds earlier. Defend push with pure ling/queen and you'll be in a very nice position. From there you can probably just overrun him with speedling because he can't keep up with your production.
Quick notes
- Make a safe spine crawler, it never hurts in this scenario and it helps defending a gateway pressure so much easier
- Have lings constantly scouting his front, checking up on his chrono and unit comp
|
On July 02 2012 05:22 Mavvie wrote:
I previously asked 4 questions, 3 got answered (thanks a ton! :D), but I am left with one huge question:
In ZvZ, after you have a lot of roaches, do you get hydras, infestors, or both? I used to always go infestor, but one game i made ~10 hydras ~30 roaches and 4 infestors and literally roflstomped an equal size army...What's your preference?
Basically infestors is the better choice BUT you're not safe doing that if your opponent is a good player.
Teching to hydras at around 120 supply and pumping them at around 140 will allow you to hit a timing that will kill a zerg teching to infestors, so as long as you're aware of this timing, and the tech route of your opponent you can punish them being greedy.
If your opponent opened ling festor or muta the correct tech route is infestors though. against muta play specifically you pump queens as well.
|
On July 02 2012 05:22 Mavvie wrote:
I previously asked 4 questions, 3 got answered (thanks a ton! :D), but I am left with one huge question:
In ZvZ, after you have a lot of roaches, do you get hydras, infestors, or both? I used to always go infestor, but one game i made ~10 hydras ~30 roaches and 4 infestors and literally roflstomped an equal size army...What's your preference?
On maps where you can defend chokes OR if your multitasking is very good, I think roach/infestor is better. However, I think roach/hydra is much easier to play and therefore better for the vast majority of people. Eventually you will open up all 3 tech choices anyway.
If you go roach infestor in the midgame you should use your speed advantage and your harassment advantage (burrowed infestors) to harass multiple points and force your opponent to split up his units. If he pushes, you want to defend a choke so you can fungal the units in the choke and get a much bigger concave.
If you go roach hydra you really just want to force an engagement in an open/neutral area, you will have the superior army to roach infestor.
|
Ah, that's it. Thanks Dude! <3
|
I have a question regarding late game Zerg unit transition.
FYI I am a high diamond/low master Zerg
Basically, high tier units like BL or ultras takes a long time to make, and in a late game where things are so fast paced, I have the tech but often don't know when to get them.
There are basically 3 situations:
1. When I am in danger and are in need of units ASAP. For example when my opponent's army is at my front door and the battle is very intense. In this situation, it makes sense to make units like roaches or lings b/c they spawn faster. I need things ASAP so I don't die. Right?
2. When *I* am at my opponent's front door and the battle is intense. I can do damage but need reinforcements ASAP. In this situation it also makes sense to make fast-spawn units. Right?
3. When I am maxed on normal units like roaches, and have all the high tech (BL/ultras) needed. In this situation I often make an attack. My aim is always to do enough damage and to free up supply so I can get ultras/BL behind it. I mostly try to snipe bases or go for his army if he's open. Sometimes this works out fine. But Sometimes I lose some supply and he's right on the chase, I have to either make things like roaches ASAP or make ultras/BL at the risk of losing bases. (I try to make spines before hand but it really depends on the map, on bigger maps he can just avoid it). And sometimes I snipe a base or two but his army supply is so big that he just counter and kill me (it's worth to note that I find it helpful to make 80-90 drones and that most of my opponents makes less than that, they thus have a bigger army than me supply wise. When I snipe a base or two, freeing up more supply for them, their army gets even bigger)
Idk how or when can there be a situation when I have free supply and the free time to make BL or ultras, not that I ever rush to get them, but I often have games where late tire units could have won me the game, or that I'm forced to stay on lower tiered units longer than I wanted.
Any suggestions?
|
Last two protoss I've played have managed to get tons of archons, a few colossus and a bunch of dark templar with stalkers on two base. It's a joke. If I could make that much tier 3 tech on two base I'd cream myself.
Oh, you say all it takes is maxing on roaches at 11 minutes (perfect injects on four hatcheries) while perfectly scouting and preparing for any number of timing attacks protoss can throw at any of my three bases, spread across the map?
Well, shit, that's easy.
|
On July 02 2012 11:15 lbw199455 wrote:
I have a question regarding late game Zerg unit transition.
FYI I am a high diamond/low master Zerg
Basically, high tier units like BL or ultras takes a long time to make, and in a late game where things are so fast paced, I have the tech but often don't know when to get them.
There are basically 3 situations:
1. When I am in danger and are in need of units ASAP. For example when my opponent's army is at my front door and the battle is very intense. In this situation, it makes sense to make units like roaches or lings b/c they spawn faster. I need things ASAP so I don't die. Right?
2. When *I* am at my opponent's front door and the battle is intense. I can do damage but need reinforcements ASAP. In this situation it also makes sense to make fast-spawn units. Right?
3. When I am maxed on normal units like roaches, and have all the high tech (BL/ultras) needed. In this situation I often make an attack. My aim is always to do enough damage and to free up supply so I can get ultras/BL behind it. I mostly try to snipe bases or go for his army if he's open. Sometimes this works out fine. But Sometimes I lose some supply and he's right on the chase, I have to either make things like roaches ASAP or make ultras/BL at the risk of losing bases. (I try to make spines before hand but it really depends on the map, on bigger maps he can just avoid it). And sometimes I snipe a base or two but his army supply is so big that he just counter and kill me (it's worth to note that I find it helpful to make 80-90 drones and that most of my opponents makes less than that, they thus have a bigger army than me supply wise. When I snipe a base or two, freeing up more supply for them, their army gets even bigger)
Idk how or when can there be a situation when I have free supply and the free time to make BL or ultras, not that I ever rush to get them, but I often have games where late tire units could have won me the game, or that I'm forced to stay on lower tiered units longer than I wanted.
Any suggestions?
I have the exact same troubles as this guy! If I don't attack, I am maxed and can't use my tech. If I attack, I lose all my shit and he counters before my BL/ultras are out.
~80 seconds to make broodlords, ~60 seconds for ultras. I guess spine crawler walls are the answer....but holy crap robo tech breaks down spines so fast.
I have an idea -- I saw it once in a game husky casted. If you're maxed and want high tech units, take ALL your drones and morph them into spines. Make infestors/ultras, cancel the spines and then you're at like 260/200 supply haha. 10 ultras more than you should have! 3000/2000 in your army that normally wouldn't be there -- it could help smooth the transition. 10 ultras will enable you to trade really well with toss armies, or at least cripple them which gives you time.
Just my thoughts ^^
|
On July 02 2012 12:07 Falcon-sw wrote:
Last two protoss I've played have managed to get tons of archons, a few colossus and a bunch of dark templar with stalkers on two base. It's a joke. If I could make that much tier 3 tech on two base I'd cream myself.
Oh, you say all it takes is maxing on roaches at 11 minutes (perfect injects on four hatcheries) while perfectly scouting and preparing for any number of timing attacks protoss can throw at any of my three bases, spread across the map?
Well, shit, that's easy.
So if toss can get that much tier three on 2 base. just imagine what you can have on 3-X bases. Now isn't that something
|
Hello Hello,
I have a little problem regarding the midgame in ZvP.
LingBling vs Roaches is a discussion which popped up again after Dimaga owned the hell out of the Dreamhack.
LingBling scales with the 2x upgrades. Roaches don't really.
Now my little question. Roaches are imba cheap and more larva effective than LingBling, so shouldn't it be more "viable" to get the Airupgrades with a 2x spire for the BL's and own the midgame with RoachLing?
Exspecially because than you have still the option of a Stephano-Push which can finish the game easily. LingBling can be end into an auto-lose if the P has proper FF-control + blink.
Im really struggling in the decision between both because of the upgrades.
|
If I'm going late lair in ZvT with the intention of getting infestors then going fast hive, how do I deal with bio aggression that comes before I get infestors or baneling speed? I've been seeing pros get their lair around 8:30 when going for infestors/quick hive, but I haven't seen how they deal with a marine/tank push that shows up before they can get baneling speed or infestors out, perhaps because it's not a prevalent strategy at the higher levels. However, down here in platinum I'm getting dominated and am unsure what to do other than simply get lair earlier, which is obviously not ideal as preparation for playing better opponents.
|
On July 02 2012 12:52 Mavvie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 11:15 lbw199455 wrote:
I have a question regarding late game Zerg unit transition.
FYI I am a high diamond/low master Zerg
Basically, high tier units like BL or ultras takes a long time to make, and in a late game where things are so fast paced, I have the tech but often don't know when to get them.
There are basically 3 situations:
1. When I am in danger and are in need of units ASAP. For example when my opponent's army is at my front door and the battle is very intense. In this situation, it makes sense to make units like roaches or lings b/c they spawn faster. I need things ASAP so I don't die. Right?
2. When *I* am at my opponent's front door and the battle is intense. I can do damage but need reinforcements ASAP. In this situation it also makes sense to make fast-spawn units. Right?
3. When I am maxed on normal units like roaches, and have all the high tech (BL/ultras) needed. In this situation I often make an attack. My aim is always to do enough damage and to free up supply so I can get ultras/BL behind it. I mostly try to snipe bases or go for his army if he's open. Sometimes this works out fine. But Sometimes I lose some supply and he's right on the chase, I have to either make things like roaches ASAP or make ultras/BL at the risk of losing bases. (I try to make spines before hand but it really depends on the map, on bigger maps he can just avoid it). And sometimes I snipe a base or two but his army supply is so big that he just counter and kill me (it's worth to note that I find it helpful to make 80-90 drones and that most of my opponents makes less than that, they thus have a bigger army than me supply wise. When I snipe a base or two, freeing up more supply for them, their army gets even bigger)
Idk how or when can there be a situation when I have free supply and the free time to make BL or ultras, not that I ever rush to get them, but I often have games where late tire units could have won me the game, or that I'm forced to stay on lower tiered units longer than I wanted.
Any suggestions?
I have the exact same troubles as this guy! If I don't attack, I am maxed and can't use my tech. If I attack, I lose all my shit and he counters before my BL/ultras are out. ~80 seconds to make broodlords, ~60 seconds for ultras. I guess spine crawler walls are the answer....but holy crap robo tech breaks down spines so fast. I have an idea -- I saw it once in a game husky casted. If you're maxed and want high tech units, take ALL your drones and morph them into spines. Make infestors/ultras, cancel the spines and then you're at like 260/200 supply haha. 10 ultras more than you should have! 3000/2000 in your army that normally wouldn't be there -- it could help smooth the transition. 10 ultras will enable you to trade really well with toss armies, or at least cripple them which gives you time. Just my thoughts ^^
My friend are giving me suggestions. A great tip I got was to build a lot of drones, up to 100, and when u move out, build spines, place them everywhere not in one spot, to delay ur opponent ( he has to kill them one by one).
|
I played ZvT meching on Taldarim Altar and got harrassed a lot by packs of 12 blue flame hellions on my outer expansions.
Even when I got spine crawlers down, they just ran by. Needed only 10 seconds (and a scan) to kill all.
How do I keep these bases safe from this? Blocking with a queen and then not using that hatchery for rallying troops (since they get stuck)?
Or what? Lost 68 workers :S
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
