EPTThe Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 300
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Tribuno
Italy261 Posts
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ysnake
Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
On June 29 2012 03:04 Tribuno wrote: what's the easiest way to drop with many OL? select all the overlord than shift D on everyone? Select all Overlods with units and just D them to a spot you want to bomb or drop, it's always good to have a couple of extra empty Overlords, in case your opponent decides to snipe them. | ||
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BurgherSC
United States4 Posts
On June 28 2012 17:38 Belial88 wrote: 1. Don't forget speed. Yours is soooo late. I like to hotkey my upgrade buildings on 6 - so spawning pool at start, and then later when I make evos, I remove pool and just make the evo's on 6, and then add spire/infestation pit, yadayadayada. You need to get speed asap... Wow. I didn't realize I had so much going wrong ^_^ Thanks so much! I'll work on it :D | ||
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Nezi
62 Posts
I just played a game on ladder on Shakuras. He 2rax'd, which I scouted with my drone. I defended reasonably well, I lost 5 drones and he lost 4 scvs. I guess I came out about even. I got my 2nd queen, speed, 3rd, and a baneling nest as a followup. He expanded and added 2 gas and another rax (putting him at 3) and then added 2 facts. One fact was naked the other got blueflame. I barely lost my 3rd to the push. Game continued on from there for a fairly long time but I was pretty far at that point. It even looked like I was behind even before he pushed. Was my defense of the 2 rax just not good or was it my followup that killed me? Help is appreciated. Rep is below. http://drop.sc/209529. Thanks. | ||
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Anacletus
United States733 Posts
On June 29 2012 04:19 Nezi wrote: Hey high master zerg here. I just played a game on ladder on Shakuras. He 2rax'd, which I scouted with my drone. I defended reasonably well, I lost 5 drones and he lost 4 scvs. I guess I came out about even. I got my 2nd queen, speed, 3rd, and a baneling nest as a followup. He expanded and added 2 gas and another rax (putting him at 3) and then added 2 facts. One fact was naked the other got blueflame. I barely lost my 3rd to the push. Game continued on from there for a fairly long time but I was pretty far at that point. It even looked like I was behind even before he pushed. Was my defense of the 2 rax just not good or was it my followup that killed me? Help is appreciated. Rep is below. http://drop.sc/209529. Thanks. Hey, hopefully I can help you out a bit!
Generally it seemed to be the little things that let him get ahead in the beginning which snowballed. I think that your hold was good - and you could have come out ahead from it, but in general I think that you should drone a LOT harder after a 2rax and in the mid-game scout a lot more. I hope this helps, good luck have fun future matches! | ||
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Nezi
62 Posts
I think chasing the marines and scvs back was a good thing, it prevented him from getting a bunker up and gave me time for my lings to pop. I think I just should've turned around a little earlier, when the 2nd and 3rd marine arrived instead of trying to engage without lings. I totally agree about the spine, I should've just dropped it right when my pool popped. Its quite common for marine followups so the spine wouldve helped a lot. When should I take my gas? I guess around after my 2nd queen pops would be good and I have about 25 drones. I made the roach warren right when I saw blueflame, but they weren't out in time for the fight. I agree think the overlord scout was late, after rewatching the game I should've sacced it around 30-45 seconds earlier. I knew I was so behind once he killed my 3rd so I tried doing a roach bane with speed allin once he pushed out to take his 3rd except I morphed the banes too late and had the worst engagement possible. | ||
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Anacletus
United States733 Posts
On June 29 2012 05:31 Nezi wrote: Thanks so much for the feedback. I think chasing the marines and scvs back was a good thing, it prevented him from getting a bunker up and gave me time for my lings to pop. I think I just should've turned around a little earlier, when the 2nd and 3rd marine arrived instead of trying to engage without lings. I totally agree about the spine, I should've just dropped it right when my pool popped. Its quite common for marine followups so the spine wouldve helped a lot. When should I take my gas? I guess around after my 2nd queen pops would be good and I have about 25 drones. I made the roach warren right when I saw blueflame, but they weren't out in time for the fight. I agree think the overlord scout was late, after rewatching the game I should've sacced it around 30-45 seconds earlier. I knew I was so behind once he killed my 3rd so I tried doing a roach bane with speed allin once he pushed out to take his 3rd except I morphed the banes too late and had the worst engagement possible. yeah - chasing probably was a good thing, you're totally right about the bunker. I also agree that engaging with only drones wasn't great. I think that 25 would sound great taking gas - I might even suggest placing your overlord behind his natural and looking at his gas timings without actually sacking it. I'd imagine (not certain) that you could draw some great analysis based on that and looking at his add-ons on the barracks in the front of his base. Such as if he has no gas - expect a follow up and drop gas early for banes. Or if you see 2 gas you might expect some later follow up with marine tech / hellions and so forth if you see add-ons. I feel like this is something worth experimenting with and that there is definitely no right answer, but in general I'd say 25 drones would be great for taking gas, especially considering how late his economy is and that you know he was expanding. But yeah, the rest of the game wasn't really you playing bad, you were just far enough behind to where you had an extremely high hill to trudge back up just to be on even footing with him. | ||
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vsportsguy
United States118 Posts
On June 28 2012 23:38 Veriol wrote: Can anyone tell me please how to handle mutas in zvz? My deflaut opening is 14p/15h/15g i then proceed to 2 queens drone up when safe drop bane nest around 30 supply poke a little with banes. Start lair 2evo roach warren (im on 4gas at this point), now i try scout his mid game transition and if i see mutas i can just gg because its autoloss for me. I tried either pressure with roach bane but that usually fails miserably, i tried third with hydras but that just fails aswell because u need ur whole army to deal with muta/ling and if u move it to third he just runs 20 lings to main etc. I tried fast infestor but oponent just split abit mutas and is fine making me waste imense amount of energy. Im rly lost in this situation. 1100~ masters EU. Thanks for help if reps are needed i think i can dig up at least one. Hopefully you have your 3rd up, that way you can drop a lot of spores. If not you have to wait until infestors to take your 3rd. The real key is to NOT LET YOUR OPPONENT TAKE HIS 3rd. I can't stress that enough, if he takes his 3rd he can transition out of mutas and outproduce you with roach/hydra or roach/infestor. Just like any other zvz, if you outmine him, you win 95% of the time. Mutas are simply a tactic to get people to focus on the wrong thing: defending against the mutas. You need to defend against the mutas AND stay equal/ahead in bases. | ||
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TriumpHisme
United States97 Posts
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Anacletus
United States733 Posts
On June 29 2012 08:46 TriumpHisme wrote: I'm just curious in ZvT, if you go muta ling bane into hive, and they go mass thor/helion, how shoulda i counter that? Upgraded roaches. If you scout him going mass thor/hellion don't go muta/ling/bane. | ||
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Hemingway
United States55 Posts
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Anacletus
United States733 Posts
On June 29 2012 09:29 Hemingway wrote: What's the general micro idea for lategame ZvT or ZvP battles with broodlord/infestor? My infestors always seem to get shredded when I send them forwards to cast spells (either by zealots or MM), and then my broodlords of course die soon after. What're some tips on infestor retention? Spread your infestors out and try and send in some lings or let your broodlords shoot a few broodlings before using any spells. And even then only move them in one at a time to cast. The biggest thing is to split them up and have them not all clumped up. You should try to have some lings or roaches with your army to tank the initial hits and draw fire. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On June 29 2012 08:46 TriumpHisme wrote: I'm just curious in ZvT, if you go muta ling bane into hive, and they go mass thor/helion, how shoulda i counter that? Roach/ling/bane is actually pretty good vs that composition. Infestors with neural parasite are pretty effective vs the thors later when it gets into later matches. | ||
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HKdawg
United States2 Posts
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Anacletus
United States733 Posts
On June 29 2012 12:52 HKdawg wrote: I am confused as to how I'm supposed to beat a terran who goes thor and then has scvs repairing them. I have tried several different strategies and i would just like to know how other zergs are handling multiple to mass thors with repairing scvs. (This is a 2base push by terran usually and im usually ahead base wise) banelings bursting on SCVs or aiming down individual thors with mass roach | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
I'm just curious in ZvT, if you go muta ling bane into hive, and they go mass thor/helion, how shoulda i counter that? thor/hellion is just terran being greedy as fuck and skipping tanks (thors in critical mass owns broodlords and ultras, while tanks are useless), and you are going to probably lose to his push. You need to mass roaches and trade, as he wont have any tanks to stop you from simply walking up to him. You should always make an overseer, as well as poke with your army. If you are as late as going spire, before you identify mech, thats fine, just get those roaches asap and eventually go to infestors, broodlords (personally i go 3 base infestor while maxing roaches, attack, then 4 base hive, but whatever, you can do lots of things, from lots of roach aggresion like drops, or quicker hive with less roaches). You really should not be as late as making mutas before you realize he's going mech, but even then, you can be okay, just stop making more than those initial 10 mutas or whatever, use them to delay his third while teching up (or massing roaches). make an overseer, and sac an overlord at 40 supply, always... but if you are that late, for whatever reason, you will need to morph all your lings into banes. Watch Nestea vs Nada Bel Shir Beach Summer GSL (long time ago). You will need mass banelings, he wont have many tanks, or you will make mutas to own his hellion/tank force that has no thors. Ie, his 2 base all-in. What's the general micro idea for lategame ZvT or ZvP battles with broodlord/infestor? My infestors always seem to get shredded when I send them forwards to cast spells (either by zealots or MM), and then my broodlords of course die soon after. What're some tips on infestor retention? infestors should always be on their own hotkey. you are having control issues. stop move commanding your infestors. just cast the spell. What it sounds like you are doing, is move or attack commanding your infestors forward and then casting spells, which results in just al the infestors running to their doom. Just have teh infestors nearby, but back a safe distance, and just cast spells. stop a-moving or move commanding your infestors, they will walk up automatically to cast spells. You can check out my ZvP and ZvT guides with replays showing how i control my bl/infestor/queen armies. I am confused as to how I'm supposed to beat a terran who goes thor and then has scvs repairing them. I have tried several different strategies and i would just like to know how other zergs are handling multiple to mass thors with repairing scvs. (This is a 2base push by terran usually and im usually ahead base wise) If he's doing a 2 base all-in, banelings if you are somehow surprised, but otherwise you should have a lot of roaches when you realize he is not expanding (terran expands quickly, if he doesnt take a third before about 60 supply its an all-innish play), you should be massing tons of roaches, and focus fire. you alway focus fire with roaches vs thors. its sooo important you do this. roaches are useless if you dont focus fire the thors... | ||
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
On June 29 2012 12:52 HKdawg wrote: I am confused as to how I'm supposed to beat a terran who goes thor and then has scvs repairing them. I have tried several different strategies and i would just like to know how other zergs are handling multiple to mass thors with repairing scvs. (This is a 2base push by terran usually and im usually ahead base wise) Belial was spot-on - you need to target fire the thors and overcome with macro. Here's a replay of me beating a plat terran going this strategy: http://drop.sc/209831 I rewatched it and wow...don't follow the old opener! I knew it was a one base terran for a while and was preparing for banshees. It was BFH, but I finally scouted mech when he had about 4 thors. I droned up the expansion, made 75ish drones, and started maxing on roaches. The only reason I beat the first wave of the all-in was target-firing one thor at a time. The game was pretty much over at that point. | ||
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triggey
10 Posts
I kept the terran on 3 base the entire game (it was a 30 min game) but i still lost... this was on ladder plat vs masters for some reason.... (ignore what i said at the end of the game i was just raging/venting) http://drop.sc/209839 | ||
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eXeel
Denmark62 Posts
On June 26 2012 17:12 Belial88 wrote: My average game length according to sc2gears is 22:52 long. You aren't doing anything wrong with not going for early attacks - as darkforce said best in this thread, you just have to accept that with zerg, attacking anytime before 70+ drones on 3 base is somewhat all-in. My advice to you - focus on defending all-ins. If you hold, THEN is a great time for aggression. I also think you aren't looking at the game right. It's about denying expos, and taking more yourself. So if you defend an all-in, make just enough army to deny the opponent from expanding, and then tech up (no need expand since you are already ahead on the econ front, check out the ETA guide, very good stuff in terms of understanding the game, its linked my in ZVP guide in the "Avoiding stupid losses" section). Attacking early with zerg won't really work anymore at the higher levels. Zerg all-ins are just so damn weak (there are some cute all-ins vs ffe and fast third terran though) ;/ I just got mad at myself for losing vT, so I decided to go aggressive vs a protoss. 14 pool, 16 hatch, gas for ling speed and droning to about 30 drones total, and then I went lings in mass. 50 lings and 9 banelings attacked the FFE protoss. He had 3 sentries, 2 stalkers and a few zealots. He didn't scout me regularly, didn't see it come. I was so easy. I hate the fact that at my mid-to-high gold level, doing this works often for a P expansion. It is so tempthing, but I don't learn much from it. And I know at higher levels I will have to face my own issues and the areas I come short at. But the longer the game, the more mistakes I make. So easier to end it fast (or pressure him so I know he is troubles). I guess there is no question, but it is frustrating to know there is an easier way to win atm (early aggressiveness because they expect a Z to drone up), since it makes things harder in the long run (I never learn to macro in the mid and end game). I guess I just need to practise, practise, practise not letting the macro slip up  | ||
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envisioN .
United States552 Posts
On June 30 2012 02:42 eXeel wrote: I just got mad at myself for losing vT, so I decided to go aggressive vs a protoss. 14 pool, 16 hatch, gas for ling speed and droning to about 30 drones total, and then I went lings in mass. 50 lings and 9 banelings attacked the FFE protoss. He had 3 sentries, 2 stalkers and a few zealots. He didn't scout me regularly, didn't see it come. I was so easy. I hate the fact that at my mid-to-high gold level, doing this works often for a P expansion. It is so tempthing, but I don't learn much from it. And I know at higher levels I will have to face my own issues and the areas I come short at. But the longer the game, the more mistakes I make. So easier to end it fast (or pressure him so I know he is troubles). I guess there is no question, but it is frustrating to know there is an easier way to win atm (early aggressiveness because they expect a Z to drone up), since it makes things harder in the long run (I never learn to macro in the mid and end game). I guess I just need to practise, practise, practise not letting the macro slip up It is good to know some all-ins that can punish players for being too greedy, because there will ALWAYS be people who play too greedy, even at the highest level. The key is to differentiate between what is too greedy and what is just economically friendly but won't be killed by an all-in. For example, CC first on Ohana is too greedy because it is a small map and a ling/bling all-in will do massive damage, where a 1 Rax FE on Condemned Ridge is not too greedy because it is a large map and a safe(er) build. | ||
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