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On February 21 2012 03:24 Roynalf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 01:32 Tristanity wrote:
Ok guys, a droning question. I usually do a 30 drones (include gas) on 2 base. When I get a third, I usually transfer 8 drones from each to saturate the 3rd and make 6 more just for gas. However, what if I get a 4th base? Do I transfer my main base drones there, or do I drone up again? And I notice drone saturation differs with each match-up, is it true? Depends on match up and units what you are making, if you are making like infestors and you want to tech to broodlords just take the gas geysers and saturate them and once your main is mined out of minerals transfer those workers to your fourth bases mineral line.
I do hope you're saying 60 drones on 2base, 30 per base. If not, 9 drones on minerals per base isnt even close, 2 drones per min patch is rule of thumb.
Just want to make sure. 
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Anyone have any tips on dealing with marine/hellion elevator TvZ? I'm not really sure what to look for scouting wise except for delayed cc at natural, and the hellions make it hard for me to see anything coming. I usually go up to 4 queens on 2 base, but that's not enough to deal with the marines, and it feels like preemptively making lings is just econ suicide and makes you die to a standard 2 base tank push @_@
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On February 21 2012 03:30 KimJongChill wrote:
Anyone have any tips on dealing with marine/hellion elevator TvZ? I'm not really sure what to look for scouting wise except for delayed cc at natural, and the hellions make it hard for me to see anything coming. I usually go up to 4 queens on 2 base, but that's not enough to deal with the marines, and it feels like preemptively making lings is just econ suicide and makes you die to a standard 2 base tank push @_@
I think the most important thing is to have a lot of lings, split them, half to the high ground, half to the low ground, get your queens over there and attack the medivac with the queens. I've not played against many elevator styles. If you sense it coming, spinecrawlers are your friend, even tho they can drop elsewhere you can move the spine and root it when you engage it.
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On February 21 2012 03:38 DeflowSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 03:30 KimJongChill wrote:
Anyone have any tips on dealing with marine/hellion elevator TvZ? I'm not really sure what to look for scouting wise except for delayed cc at natural, and the hellions make it hard for me to see anything coming. I usually go up to 4 queens on 2 base, but that's not enough to deal with the marines, and it feels like preemptively making lings is just econ suicide and makes you die to a standard 2 base tank push @_@ I think the most important thing is to have a lot of lings, split them, half to the high ground, half to the low ground, get your queens over there and attack the medivac with the queens. I've not played against many elevator styles. If you sense it coming, spinecrawlers are your friend, even tho they can drop elsewhere you can move the spine and root it when you engage it.
If you're going 4 queens, chances are you're going gasless. In that case, holding that is simple:
-Building a spine crawler in your main is optional but recommended
-Take your 4 queens, target the medivac down - they'll be forced to run or stay and die
-If they stay, just kill them with 4 queens and like 6 lings. If they've been denying your creep spread, your 2 creep queens will have transfuse on them making it even easier.
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Is it ever wrong to build 5-7 queens in ZvT off 2 bases? Or if I get a fast 3rd, make like 10 queens? Is it worth the mineral investment to be safe vs banshee's/drops or should I make lings instead
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You can only get 2.5 lings for the cost of a queen, and that uses 2 larva also... Queens aren't as fast but in larger numbers they can mass transfuse each other in a battle or creep up the whole freaking map instantly... I actually build several queens in all matchups just because the mass transfuse is amazing... But, I'm only high bronze... So take it with a grain of salt. 
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On February 21 2012 04:45 Halftrolll wrote:You can only get 2.5 lings for the cost of a queen, and that uses 2 larva also... Queens aren't as fast but in larger numbers they can mass transfuse each other in a battle or creep up the whole freaking map instantly... I actually build several queens in all matchups just because the mass transfuse is amazing... But, I'm only high bronze... So take it with a grain of salt.
I thought people were bronze because they didn't learn from their mistakes, not because they can't do simple arithmetic. A queen is worth 3 sets of lings or 6 total lings, which uses 3 larva.
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A queen is 3 drone, so I mean, 5 queens and safe or 3 queens and 6 more drones...  It sucks how as zerg, anything you build "could have been drones instead".
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Just a general question about ZvT. I'm high masters (top15ish) on EU zerg.
So I generally go double upgrades into third into muta defending any earlier pushes with ling baneling. I drone up to third bases and take my fourth when my third finishes since my third is abit late due to hellions. If the terran is confined to three bases and I'm on four. How do I deal with 170 food pushes with around 8 tanks 2 thors and a ton of marines. At this point I don't have infestors or broodlords yet because I like to mass muta and harass. But how am I supposed to deal with this push? Because of two thors they nullify all my mutas trying to pick off tanks.
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What is a standard build for Zerg (I am just switching). When should I take a third if I want to macro heavily, i.e. IdrA macro. What are standard gas timings and zerg counters to standard toss and terran builds?
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If you want to macro hard you need to always rely on spine crawlers and basically take 2nd and 3rd (4th too) gas AFTER Lair... In all that meantime you drone up, of course scouting in the process for army composition and possible 2 base timings and all ins
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On February 21 2012 06:30 Orazio wrote:
What is a standard build for Zerg (I am just switching). When should I take a third if I want to macro heavily, i.e. IdrA macro. What are standard gas timings and zerg counters to standard toss and terran builds?
This is kind of a broad question, but I can give you a few general guidelines.
ZvP:
Macro hard; go 10 overlord extractortrick, 11 pool. You deny any pylon block shenanigans and can deny scouting efficiently if you're map aware. Take natural asap, take 3rd preferably before or at the 5 min mark. Get 2 queens initially, 3rd at your third as it finishes (you cant afford more than this). Gas ~36 supply. Evo chamber as you take your gas. Start ling speed, then lair, then +1 attack on whichever unit you prefer. Drone like crazy, and around 7-7:30 is where you wanna plant roach warren, get 4rd and maybe 4th gas, and suicide at least one overlord (dont be afraid to sac two). Constant ling poke at his front to keep tabs on sentry count. You literally wanna drone to the very edge. If you see 5 gates warping in and no tech, DO NOT panic and imidiately make roaches. 5 gates warping in = he has no units yet = make more drones. Ideally, you will wanna make units as he leaves his base. At this time, make sure you dont supplyblock. Roach/ling (one of which with +1) should handle most 2-base pushes. If he takes a third, thats your queue to get more gas, take a fourth, add hydras OR infestors and pressure OR infestors + hive tech and defend. If you start to pile minerals (you will), dump supply and minerals in like 10 spines. Spines and spores at your, important, mining bases to ward for DT. Play the lategame as you want from here - and remember. Never push "to win".
Alternative - nice little allin I like to throw in the mix every so often. 15 pool 15 gas. Expand. Ling speed, keep 2 drones in gas. Roach warren around 30 supply -> cut drones and go go. Busts alot of FFE's if they do not invest in extra cannons.
ZvT:
15 hatch 15 pool 17 gas is what I like personally. 2x queen, off gas at 100 + speed, spine at natural close to 28 food. Spread creep at your natural with first 25 energy, too. If you feel unsafe, simcity with a roach warren or an evo chamber. If he goes 4 hellion, you can defend it fine with just a crawler and like 8 lings. If he shows 6 or even more hellions, feel free to make 2 or 3 roaches to be safe. (I actually often get roach warren to simcity with to a) discourage hellion production b) be safe vs mass mass hellion builds). Drone like nuts, get nice and early upgrades for your melee, and a sort of quick baneling speed will help so much in many situations. Scout if he goes mech or bio. Vs mech I like roach/ling/baneling into ultra/crackling (many terrans anticipate brood lords, and go for vikings blindly). Vs bio I play ling/bling into whatever I feel will help me win the late game. Broods if he goes very tank heavy, pure infestors if he goes very marine heavy. Regardless of build I like to get 8 or so mutalisks to deny drops and do light harass / force turret overreaction.
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On February 21 2012 05:41 Olsson wrote:
Just a general question about ZvT. I'm high masters (top15ish) on EU zerg.
So I generally go double upgrades into third into muta defending any earlier pushes with ling baneling. I drone up to third bases and take my fourth when my third finishes since my third is abit late due to hellions. If the terran is confined to three bases and I'm on four. How do I deal with 170 food pushes with around 8 tanks 2 thors and a ton of marines. At this point I don't have infestors or broodlords yet because I like to mass muta and harass. But how am I supposed to deal with this push? Because of two thors they nullify all my mutas trying to pick off tanks.
the order of priority in dealing this attack is marines first, thors then tanks. with your upgraded carapace you mentioned you should be able to take a few tank hits while the attack goes. you'll want to take marines out first with banes mostly. in the perfect scenario once most are dead (with you manually controlling banes only as in right click it attack the fat chunk of rines) conrtol the mutas to magic box thors, all while lings are attacking anything, and if their on tanks whether or not their spread out perfectly they can only attack lings that are already right next to tanks causing splash friendly fire which is good. of course once rines and thors are dead mutas become janitors because they clean everything up on the floor.
you'll also want to attack in a top to bottom wave or single wave, reference this LOTR video in spoiler.
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=401BrTPRUwk the attack at 4:40 wouldn't have worked if Rohan's entire army was just a stab/straight line into Mordor's army they did a long ways attack reaching every part, get it?, also I'm a nerd
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I have been having trouble lately in ZvZ at mid/high diamond. I always open the standard safe 14/14, and if my opp has expanded I will, if hes on 1 base I will go banes. Most games end up with either a 1 or 2 base bane war and most of the time that transitions into the mid-game. I am a fan of going 2base roach into 3 base infestor, but lately every opponent has started going 2base muta into like 4base roach infestor/muta. They stop me getting my third and they just out-produce me, and by time I try and push I get crushed... really struggling with this . Is it best if i just start going muta myself?
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On February 21 2012 05:41 Olsson wrote:
Just a general question about ZvT. I'm high masters (top15ish) on EU zerg.
So I generally go double upgrades into third into muta defending any earlier pushes with ling baneling. I drone up to third bases and take my fourth when my third finishes since my third is abit late due to hellions. If the terran is confined to three bases and I'm on four. How do I deal with 170 food pushes with around 8 tanks 2 thors and a ton of marines. At this point I don't have infestors or broodlords yet because I like to mass muta and harass. But how am I supposed to deal with this push? Because of two thors they nullify all my mutas trying to pick off tanks.
Basicly you want to delay his push as much as you can and trying to sniper reinforcements, addons, maybe few scv.
Keep your army ready right outside of his base, soo as he moves out force fight if you think you can win while his tanks are un sieged, if you dont think you can win bait him to siege and stimming by runnin towards him and then pull back and remake what you lost (do not loose mutas), while he is sieged right outside of his base try to snipe few tanks, reinforcements or some addons with your mutas. Keep doing this every time he unsieges and tries to move towards your base. This gives you lot of time to tech broodlords and allows you to weaken Terran army.
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In zvp lategame: I have my deathball consisting primarly of inferstor/BL/spines, against the protoss deathball of MS/colo/archons/gateway units. As stupid as it may sound, I oftentimes find I have a hard time with detection. i.e. my overseers will either be to far behind, to far in the front, spores will die to fast...
Do you guys have some good solutions for this problem?
Edit: mid dia zerg here.
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On February 21 2012 21:35 gronnelg wrote:
In zvp lategame: I have my deathball consisting primarly of inferstor/BL/spines, against the protoss deathball of MS/colo/archons/gateway units. As stupid as it may sound, I oftentimes find I have a hard time with detection. i.e. my overseers will either be to far behind, to far in the front, spores will die to fast...
Do you guys have some good solutions for this problem?
Edit: mid dia zerg here.
You can hold position them at the spines or you can right click them onto a Broodlord. Also don't just bring 1, you have to have a lot of them.
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On February 21 2012 21:57 K3Nyy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 21:35 gronnelg wrote:
In zvp lategame: I have my deathball consisting primarly of inferstor/BL/spines, against the protoss deathball of MS/colo/archons/gateway units. As stupid as it may sound, I oftentimes find I have a hard time with detection. i.e. my overseers will either be to far behind, to far in the front, spores will die to fast...
Do you guys have some good solutions for this problem?
Edit: mid dia zerg here. You can hold position them at the spines or you can right click them onto a Broodlord. Also don't just bring 1, you have to have a lot of them.
If I make them follow the broodlords, will they give detection far enough? Like, will I see more than just the front units?
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ZvT what's your build vs reactor hellion expand?
When do u build gas n. 2-3-4, macro hatch and take a third?
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I'm having a really hard time against mass blink stalkers play. I've tried most unit compositions against it:
Ling/Roach, Roach/Hydra (always with infestors)
Broodlords
Ultras
I'm at the point where I'm not really sure what to do when I scout 6-7 gates and a twilight council...
Any ideas about how to effectively play against this strat?
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EPT
