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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
So I generally go double upgrades into third into muta defending any earlier pushes with ling baneling. I drone up to third bases and take my fourth when my third finishes since my third is abit late due to hellions. If the terran is confined to three bases and I'm on four. How do I deal with 170 food pushes with around 8 tanks 2 thors and a ton of marines. At this point I don't have infestors or broodlords yet because I like to mass muta and harass. But how am I supposed to deal with this push? Because of two thors they nullify all my mutas trying to pick off tanks.
Counterattacking! Hence, why Shakuras is broken as fuck, and TDA is always a base trade.
Or, you can look for that opportune moment when they unsiege 1 or 2 too many tanks at once.
You're higher level than me, but that's my take on it. Counter attack, counterattack, counterattack. Without it, zerg has nothing. You should be cutting off reinforcements when he pushes out, and then you keep reinforcing your army, so you should have like 200/200 against him. And thors aren't that bad, don't be so scared of them.
Anyone have any tips on dealing with marine/hellion elevator TvZ? I'm not really sure what to look for scouting wise except for delayed cc at natural, and the hellions make it hard for me to see anything coming. I usually go up to 4 queens on 2 base, but that's not enough to deal with the marines, and it feels like preemptively making lings is just econ suicide and makes you die to a standard 2 base tank push @_@
In addition to what you already do, banes.
Is it ever wrong to build 5-7 queens in ZvT off 2 bases? Or if I get a fast 3rd, make like 10 queens? Is it worth the mineral investment to be safe vs banshee's/drops or should I make lings instead
Way too many. Your third will never happen. 3 on 2 base is what is standard, sometimes 4 (especially to deal with hellions or air).
4 queens should be able to handle anything standard.
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On February 21 2012 23:01 Zorkmid wrote:
I'm having a really hard time against mass blink stalkers play. I've tried most unit compositions against it:
Ling/Roach, Roach/Hydra (always with infestors)
Broodlords
Ultras
I'm at the point where I'm not really sure what to do when I scout 6-7 gates and a twilight council...
Any ideas about how to effectively play against this strat?
I am willing to bet a lot that you fall for the biggest mistake of them all when you scout. This is based purely on assumption as you dont give much info but, here's a guess. You fly in your overlord(s)/overseer, you see a number of gates just finishing up and a twilight researching. And you imidiately panic and begin producing units. This is not the way to do it. Day[9] did a very nice daily (Rets super standard ZvP - it was this past sunday I believe) about a similar topic. Here's the deal. When warpgate is just finishing, and gateways morphing. The protoss has maybe 3-4 sentries which he made from his initial gateway. Subtract one from this number for every scouting zealot. And then a full warpin round from the newly morphed gates. Lets say you scout these gates morph at 8:30 (fairly standard timing iirc for 6 gate blink). This means at 8:30 he has 4 sentries and 6 stalkers. Likely not even with blink yet (most blink pushes want +2 attack before pushing, and this research is slower than blink so they line them up to finish at the same time). Can he push? Not really. Maybe he can if you let him have a safe proxy pylon. This means when you scout this build coming, make another 10 or so drones! It is vital that you are ahead in economy. THEN start making units. It is also vital your injects do not slip up. And vital that you're active with your upgrades - +1 melee and +1 ranged is golden vs blink. Follow up with +2 on whichever unit you seem to be building more.
I personally like roach/sling slowly adding infestors (slowly! you dont wanna rush there at all). But 3 nearly-saturated bases, mineral wise, and 3 gas worth of roach + sling production. Maybe with a macro hatch or even two. Should hold 2-base blink play. When he expands, this is when you can start droning and teching again.
Roach/ling with 2 control groups, mind. Attack with your roaches from the front and flank with your speed zerglings. The force of blink stalkers, as you know, is their ability to jump to the back, thus keeping the entire firepower of the army alive even though by rights the units should have died. Sling flank limits this, allowing you to decimate him swiftly.
To sum up: DO NOT panic! Do not begin making units too soon! If you end up ~even on harvesters with him because you panic and make units too early, he has the advantage because of how dastardly cost efficient blink stalkers are. You will want to have your 3 bases saturated with mineral drones (this means 48 drones mining mineral and 9 on gas for 57 drones total as the very minimum. Aim for more like 62-65 so you have room to make a crawler or two if needed.) Remember, mineral saturation w/ 2 gas = doubleclick drones at a base. If there are exactly 2½ rows this means you're golden. If there are more than 3 rows, transfer the surplus.
Abit of a long answer but I hope it helps. MORE DRONES! Being up a base means nothing if youre 50 vs 50 workers. 60 vs 50 is better. 65 vs 50 is what you will want to aim for in time. 70 vs 50 is the optimal scenario. Remember your scouting! If he somehow sneaks a third while you think he is all in, it could be game ending, as him taking his third either means you must end the game right there, or take a fourth and start your brood lord tech imidiately. (Roach/ling/infestor is so strong to push vs a primarily stalker blink army).
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On February 21 2012 22:48 Tribuno wrote:
ZvT what's your build vs reactor hellion expand?
When do u build gas n. 2-3-4, macro hatch and take a third?
Vs standard 4 hellions -> marine/tank terrans:
Just lings. I deny hellion entry with 1 spine, 1 roach warren blocking the entry that the spine does not cover. 1 queen, like 8 zerglings. Holds it fine unless you really screw up. Dont get baited off creep and lose those lings. Spine crawler push your creep out! Get a macro hatch before your third. I throw back in gas around mid 30 supply, and get +1 carapace, then lair, then baneling nest, then second evo chamber lined up so I can start +1 melee/+2 armor asap, and I get gas number 2 and 3 as I start the lair. These gas timings are regardless of what he does, pretty much, unless I feel I need super fast muta.
The roach warren servers two purposes. 1) it discourages further hellion production and may force some defensive countermeasures as he may fear a counter attack or a straight allin. 2) IF he does:
The "standard 4 hellion" expand, where he really builds 10-12 hellions, or goes straight up mech with a big hellion/thor push.
It is vital to scout this difference. That is why I like to sac an overlord even when it seems like youre just playing a "standard hellion expand". The big warning signs are no tanks, and the reactor still being on the factory (or there is more than one factory) when you poke in with your overlord - I do this around the time where he shows me hellion number 4, the timing varies.
There are a number of variations which terran seems to like.
- he builds maybe 8 hellions, then swaps addons for tanks. If I see this, I just build maybe 4 roaches, and take my third while delaying my first armor upgrade abit (do not delay lair - you want that baneling speed).
- He builds super many hellions off 2 factories. Vs this you need more than 4 roaches - but he delays siege tanks so much by doing this that making as many as 10 roaches is no biggie at all.
- He goes pure mech. Many factories and only 1 rax signals this. Just gogo roaches with speedling support and expand.
I hope this helps a little  may be slightly messy but I just dotted down all my thoughts on this. Also, keep an eye out for the "4 hellion expand" that really transitions into cloak banshee.
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I have been having trouble lately in ZvZ at mid/high diamond. I always open the standard safe 14/14, and if my opp has expanded I will, if hes on 1 base I will go banes. Most games end up with either a 1 or 2 base bane war and most of the time that transitions into the mid-game. I am a fan of going 2base roach into 3 base infestor, but lately every opponent has started going 2base muta into like 4base roach infestor/muta. They stop me getting my third and they just out-produce me, and by time I try and push I get crushed... really struggling with this . Is it best if i just start going muta myself?
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HI i have a question. Is it economically feasible to do a 7 roach rush after i scout a FFE? preferably after i place down my nat and before i put down my third. and before second queen.
Roaches(7?) shld hit before warpgate. primary goal is a force scout and to do dmg if he tries any fancy tech. Also, as preparation incase he goes for a zealot push to kill my third. also to punish the toss shld he try to cut corners (ffe with one cannon, etc).
it is NOT all in and i will drone hard the moment roaches pop. will i be too far behind if i end up not doing any dmg?
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On February 22 2012 03:49 Deatheus89 wrote:
HI i have a question. Is it economically feasible to do a 7 roach rush after i scout a FFE? preferably after i place down my nat and before i put down my third. and before second queen.
Roaches(7?) shld hit before warpgate. primary goal is a force scout and to do dmg if he tries any fancy tech. Also, as preparation incase he goes for a zealot push to kill my third. also to punish the toss shld he try to cut corners (ffe with one cannon, etc).
it is NOT all in and i will drone hard the moment roaches pop. will i be too far behind if i end up not doing any dmg?
A 7 roach rush (7rr) is a 1 base play and extremely all in.
FFE is an extremely safe build and you cannot punish it unless you go all in.
If you speedling expand you can put back into gas when your nat is 25%, then make a roach warren when your nat is 75% and make 8 roaches when it finishes, rally lings to your roaches and break it.
This is also an all in however.
So to answer your question: "Is it economically feasible to do a rush after I scout a FFE?"
No, the word rush should be hinting towards this.
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3rd time im posting this T_T.
Very standard zvt, i hatch first he goes for the hellion expand.
My macro was good but around 10 min he goes a push just when i try to take a third which destroyed me i don't know why but i think i overdroned a little bit or engaged to early :/.
http://drop.sc/115374
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On February 22 2012 05:47 Guamshin wrote:3rd time im posting this T_T. Very standard zvt, i hatch first he goes for the hellion expand. My macro was good but around 10 min he goes a push just when i try to take a third which destroyed me i don't know why but i think i overdroned a little bit or engaged to early :/. http://drop.sc/115374
Well first off, you macrod well. I don't know what league you're in but that was pretty smooth.
Also, nice overlord scout, you basically knew he was going marine tank.
When your pool pops and you make your two queens, always make 1 set of lings. Take a tower, but more importantly: scout his front/natural.
Didn't matter much in this case, but it can!
As for why you lost, most of it is not seeing the attack coming before it hit the tower on your side of the map.
This can be hard with hellions, but if you're staying on 2base you could've stopped droning a little bit earlier and made some more lings, spread out your creep a bit by moving 1 spine at a time with queen support etc.
You had a ling on your tower when the hellions contained you, move it to HIS tower and morph banes the moment you see him coming.
You did a good job with waiting as long as possible, got a bit unlucky with bane speed not finishing.
What killed you is that his push arrived at your natural, meaning you couldn't flank it.
I think you still could've held had you unrooted your spines and backed them up, and spread your lings/banes to the left and right of your nat before engaging (as opposed to all of them coming from the ramp).
Short version: Try to always have a ling hidden so that when the hellions contain you, you have a way to see if he's moving out. If he's moving out you have to force the hellions back, or kill them. Then you morph banes in two locations (your natural and your flanking spot, your third for example) and crush the attack (still wait as long as possible, you dont want to stop his attack, you want to crush it), and most likely win with a counter seeing as he didn't have a wall at his natural.
I hope this answered your question. ^^
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http://drop.sc/117199
I hate marines. Marines are stupid. They stim and kill my entire army. Terran split marines, I have to split banelings, but they still die because of tank focus fire before they do anything useful anyway so I'm just wasting apm.
How do I beat T? Like...wtf...do I beat T with?
Harass with mutas? How? T makes a trillion turrets and a couple thors and suddenly doing anything near the T base is the most cost inefficient thing to do other than simply throwing your army away...like I enjoy doing vs terran anyway.
Some people like making mutas for harassing. I can't do that. I'm not good at it. I prefer making 10-12 mutas for drop stopping then going on about my business with infestors and teching...but...when I do go mass mutas, I just lose. How do you win with mass mutas!?
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http://drop.sc/117749
I just don't understand the ZvZ match up. I held off the early pool easily enough, and then thought I could just roll him over with ling/bling off one base. However, despite his early pool, he has a better economy than I do, and his speed and bling nest come up at a reasonable timing to defend my own attack. What did I do wrong here? Was there not a window to attack?
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On February 22 2012 00:03 Thraundil wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 23:01 Zorkmid wrote:
I'm having a really hard time against mass blink stalkers play. I've tried most unit compositions against it:
Ling/Roach, Roach/Hydra (always with infestors)
Broodlords
Ultras
I'm at the point where I'm not really sure what to do when I scout 6-7 gates and a twilight council...
Any ideas about how to effectively play against this strat? I am willing to bet a lot that you fall for the biggest mistake of them all when you scout. This is based purely on assumption as you dont give much info but, here's a guess. You fly in your overlord(s)/overseer, you see a number of gates just finishing up and a twilight researching. And you imidiately panic and begin producing units. This is not the way to do it. Day[9] did a very nice daily (Rets super standard ZvP - it was this past sunday I believe) about a similar topic. Here's the deal. When warpgate is just finishing, and gateways morphing. The protoss has maybe 3-4 sentries which he made from his initial gateway. Subtract one from this number for every scouting zealot. And then a full warpin round from the newly morphed gates. Lets say you scout these gates morph at 8:30 (fairly standard timing iirc for 6 gate blink). This means at 8:30 he has 4 sentries and 6 stalkers. Likely not even with blink yet (most blink pushes want +2 attack before pushing, and this research is slower than blink so they line them up to finish at the same time). Can he push? Not really. Maybe he can if you let him have a safe proxy pylon. This means when you scout this build coming, make another 10 or so drones! It is vital that you are ahead in economy. THEN start making units. It is also vital your injects do not slip up. And vital that you're active with your upgrades - +1 melee and +1 ranged is golden vs blink. Follow up with +2 on whichever unit you seem to be building more. I personally like roach/sling slowly adding infestors (slowly! you dont wanna rush there at all). But 3 nearly-saturated bases, mineral wise, and 3 gas worth of roach + sling production. Maybe with a macro hatch or even two. Should hold 2-base blink play. When he expands, this is when you can start droning and teching again. Roach/ling with 2 control groups, mind. Attack with your roaches from the front and flank with your speed zerglings. The force of blink stalkers, as you know, is their ability to jump to the back, thus keeping the entire firepower of the army alive even though by rights the units should have died. Sling flank limits this, allowing you to decimate him swiftly. To sum up: DO NOT panic! Do not begin making units too soon! If you end up ~even on harvesters with him because you panic and make units too early, he has the advantage because of how dastardly cost efficient blink stalkers are. You will want to have your 3 bases saturated with mineral drones (this means 48 drones mining mineral and 9 on gas for 57 drones total as the very minimum. Aim for more like 62-65 so you have room to make a crawler or two if needed.) Remember, mineral saturation w/ 2 gas = doubleclick drones at a base. If there are exactly 2½ rows this means you're golden. If there are more than 3 rows, transfer the surplus. Abit of a long answer but I hope it helps. MORE DRONES! Being up a base means nothing if youre 50 vs 50 workers. 60 vs 50 is better. 65 vs 50 is what you will want to aim for in time. 70 vs 50 is the optimal scenario. Remember your scouting! If he somehow sneaks a third while you think he is all in, it could be game ending, as him taking his third either means you must end the game right there, or take a fourth and start your brood lord tech imidiately. (Roach/ling/infestor is so strong to push vs a primarily stalker blink army).
I'm jumping in late here, but do you have a replay of this (the droning up to 70ish before pumping units)? What you say makes sense, in that having a superior econ means that you can out-trade his efficient army with sheer numbers over time, but I would like to see several things, including the roach/ling balance that works, how well-timed the injects need to be to pull this off (i.e., how much attention can I spare for micro?), and how bad cliff-blinking can be for this approach. I assume you're on three base with three hatches, no macro hatch?
I will go watch that daily you mentioned.
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On February 22 2012 16:10 6xFPCs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 00:03 Thraundil wrote:On February 21 2012 23:01 Zorkmid wrote:
I'm having a really hard time against mass blink stalkers play. I've tried most unit compositions against it:
Ling/Roach, Roach/Hydra (always with infestors)
Broodlords
Ultras
I'm at the point where I'm not really sure what to do when I scout 6-7 gates and a twilight council...
Any ideas about how to effectively play against this strat? I am willing to bet a lot that you fall for the biggest mistake of them all when you scout. This is based purely on assumption as you dont give much info but, here's a guess. You fly in your overlord(s)/overseer, you see a number of gates just finishing up and a twilight researching. And you imidiately panic and begin producing units. This is not the way to do it. Day[9] did a very nice daily (Rets super standard ZvP - it was this past sunday I believe) about a similar topic. Here's the deal. When warpgate is just finishing, and gateways morphing. The protoss has maybe 3-4 sentries which he made from his initial gateway. Subtract one from this number for every scouting zealot. And then a full warpin round from the newly morphed gates. Lets say you scout these gates morph at 8:30 (fairly standard timing iirc for 6 gate blink). This means at 8:30 he has 4 sentries and 6 stalkers. Likely not even with blink yet (most blink pushes want +2 attack before pushing, and this research is slower than blink so they line them up to finish at the same time). Can he push? Not really. Maybe he can if you let him have a safe proxy pylon. This means when you scout this build coming, make another 10 or so drones! It is vital that you are ahead in economy. THEN start making units. It is also vital your injects do not slip up. And vital that you're active with your upgrades - +1 melee and +1 ranged is golden vs blink. Follow up with +2 on whichever unit you seem to be building more. I personally like roach/sling slowly adding infestors (slowly! you dont wanna rush there at all). But 3 nearly-saturated bases, mineral wise, and 3 gas worth of roach + sling production. Maybe with a macro hatch or even two. Should hold 2-base blink play. When he expands, this is when you can start droning and teching again. Roach/ling with 2 control groups, mind. Attack with your roaches from the front and flank with your speed zerglings. The force of blink stalkers, as you know, is their ability to jump to the back, thus keeping the entire firepower of the army alive even though by rights the units should have died. Sling flank limits this, allowing you to decimate him swiftly. To sum up: DO NOT panic! Do not begin making units too soon! If you end up ~even on harvesters with him because you panic and make units too early, he has the advantage because of how dastardly cost efficient blink stalkers are. You will want to have your 3 bases saturated with mineral drones (this means 48 drones mining mineral and 9 on gas for 57 drones total as the very minimum. Aim for more like 62-65 so you have room to make a crawler or two if needed.) Remember, mineral saturation w/ 2 gas = doubleclick drones at a base. If there are exactly 2½ rows this means you're golden. If there are more than 3 rows, transfer the surplus. Abit of a long answer but I hope it helps. MORE DRONES! Being up a base means nothing if youre 50 vs 50 workers. 60 vs 50 is better. 65 vs 50 is what you will want to aim for in time. 70 vs 50 is the optimal scenario. Remember your scouting! If he somehow sneaks a third while you think he is all in, it could be game ending, as him taking his third either means you must end the game right there, or take a fourth and start your brood lord tech imidiately. (Roach/ling/infestor is so strong to push vs a primarily stalker blink army). I'm jumping in late here, but do you have a replay of this (the droning up to 70ish before pumping units)? What you say makes sense, in that having a superior econ means that you can out-trade his efficient army with sheer numbers over time, but I would like to see several things, including the roach/ling balance that works, how well-timed the injects need to be to pull this off (i.e., how much attention can I spare for micro?), and how bad cliff-blinking can be for this approach. I assume you're on three base with three hatches, no macro hatch? I will go watch that daily you mentioned.
GM Zerg here - I would recommend you avoid that advice entirely. Drones are good units, but most zergs have a very simplistic "making some drones was good, so obviously making more is even more good!" mentality. In truth, stopping between 60-65 drones and just pumping roach ling off of 4 gas (3 bases + macro hatch) will a)give you enough units to hold any 2 base allin and b) allow you to deny a greedy third. In short, the Toss's only option is to sit on 2 bases and tech up which gives you the opportunity to tech up to infestors or whatever you want. Sometimes Stephano just maxes on roach ling and chills in a concave outside the Protoss' ramp, but that is vulnerable to really stupid things like not pushing out until the 20 minute mark.
The reason you'll want to cut drones, especially vs a 6/7/8 gate, is because small numbers of units will get cost ineffectively obliterated. The more units you have, the more cost effective they'll be, making up for any loss in economy.
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On February 22 2012 16:10 6xFPCs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 00:03 Thraundil wrote:On February 21 2012 23:01 Zorkmid wrote:
I'm having a really hard time against mass blink stalkers play. I've tried most unit compositions against it:
Ling/Roach, Roach/Hydra (always with infestors)
Broodlords
Ultras
I'm at the point where I'm not really sure what to do when I scout 6-7 gates and a twilight council...
Any ideas about how to effectively play against this strat? I am willing to bet a lot that you fall for the biggest mistake of them all when you scout. This is based purely on assumption as you dont give much info but, here's a guess. You fly in your overlord(s)/overseer, you see a number of gates just finishing up and a twilight researching. And you imidiately panic and begin producing units. This is not the way to do it. Day[9] did a very nice daily (Rets super standard ZvP - it was this past sunday I believe) about a similar topic. Here's the deal. When warpgate is just finishing, and gateways morphing. The protoss has maybe 3-4 sentries which he made from his initial gateway. Subtract one from this number for every scouting zealot. And then a full warpin round from the newly morphed gates. Lets say you scout these gates morph at 8:30 (fairly standard timing iirc for 6 gate blink). This means at 8:30 he has 4 sentries and 6 stalkers. Likely not even with blink yet (most blink pushes want +2 attack before pushing, and this research is slower than blink so they line them up to finish at the same time). Can he push? Not really. Maybe he can if you let him have a safe proxy pylon. This means when you scout this build coming, make another 10 or so drones! It is vital that you are ahead in economy. THEN start making units. It is also vital your injects do not slip up. And vital that you're active with your upgrades - +1 melee and +1 ranged is golden vs blink. Follow up with +2 on whichever unit you seem to be building more. I personally like roach/sling slowly adding infestors (slowly! you dont wanna rush there at all). But 3 nearly-saturated bases, mineral wise, and 3 gas worth of roach + sling production. Maybe with a macro hatch or even two. Should hold 2-base blink play. When he expands, this is when you can start droning and teching again. Roach/ling with 2 control groups, mind. Attack with your roaches from the front and flank with your speed zerglings. The force of blink stalkers, as you know, is their ability to jump to the back, thus keeping the entire firepower of the army alive even though by rights the units should have died. Sling flank limits this, allowing you to decimate him swiftly. To sum up: DO NOT panic! Do not begin making units too soon! If you end up ~even on harvesters with him because you panic and make units too early, he has the advantage because of how dastardly cost efficient blink stalkers are. You will want to have your 3 bases saturated with mineral drones (this means 48 drones mining mineral and 9 on gas for 57 drones total as the very minimum. Aim for more like 62-65 so you have room to make a crawler or two if needed.) Remember, mineral saturation w/ 2 gas = doubleclick drones at a base. If there are exactly 2½ rows this means you're golden. If there are more than 3 rows, transfer the surplus. Abit of a long answer but I hope it helps. MORE DRONES! Being up a base means nothing if youre 50 vs 50 workers. 60 vs 50 is better. 65 vs 50 is what you will want to aim for in time. 70 vs 50 is the optimal scenario. Remember your scouting! If he somehow sneaks a third while you think he is all in, it could be game ending, as him taking his third either means you must end the game right there, or take a fourth and start your brood lord tech imidiately. (Roach/ling/infestor is so strong to push vs a primarily stalker blink army). I'm jumping in late here, but do you have a replay of this (the droning up to 70ish before pumping units)? What you say makes sense, in that having a superior econ means that you can out-trade his efficient army with sheer numbers over time, but I would like to see several things, including the roach/ling balance that works, how well-timed the injects need to be to pull this off (i.e., how much attention can I spare for micro?), and how bad cliff-blinking can be for this approach. I assume you're on three base with three hatches, no macro hatch? I will go watch that daily you mentioned.
I do have a replay, yes... *seaches frantically through the replay folder*
In all seriousness my decision making was not the best in this game - the primary reason why it drags out for a looooong long time. Its played in the low master league area.
Replay: Here
Basically I go 10 overlord trick to 11 drone. Then pool, although I actually end up killing his probe with my drone :p I slip up abit and let his next probe into the main, and he sees no gas which means he must know I am 3 hatch. I drone to 63 (notice the overlord scout at 8:30 seeing exactly those 4 additional gates morphing. I see 1 stalker and 3 sentries - thats what he has at that point in time).
I do drone to 63 drones before doing anything else in this game - although in fairness, i should have made a macro hatchery and droned to at least 66. I do morph an overseer with which I spot a robotics, and he expands, which prompts me to opt for more drones, tech and a 4th before sort of tossing my roaches away for only a few units :p game drags out from there, but I do end up putting a win in my belt in the end...
Anyways! At 12 min mark I am at 74 drones, which is around where you wanna be really. And you will notice by my unit count relative to his that I am, at that point, also fairly safe vs any push that he could be doing. All because I got that moneyscout, and then deduced that he would not go for an allout attack. If you then play into the mid to late game abit more carefully and patiently than me - I mean. Yeah. The point was the ohmygod safe early game droning! 
Edit; although the guy above me has an entirely valid point. Its two different styles I guess. In my opinion, having the option and ability/practise of doing both is not a bad thing.
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On February 12 2012 18:40 yzzdups wrote:
I am a low NA master player. I struggle with proper overlord production/keeping up with supply. I either get supply blocked or build way to many resulting in a waste of money. The early game is not that difficult. I would roughly estimate I start to have problems around the time I start to get 3 hatcheries going. I've heard numerous things like 1 overlord for every inject, 1 around the time your larva inject is around half done, or when you're around 10 food away from your cap. I've tried all of them but none of them quite seem adequate. If one of these is a good technique, let me know, and I'll work to perfect it. So how do keep up with proper overlord production throughout the various stages of the game in high masters/gm?
Sorry if this has been addressed. 177 pages is a bunch to skim through.
Sorry to bump this, but it's been 10 pages with no reply. Someone have advice?
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On February 22 2012 16:54 yzzdups wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 18:40 yzzdups wrote:
I am a low NA master player. I struggle with proper overlord production/keeping up with supply. I either get supply blocked or build way to many resulting in a waste of money. The early game is not that difficult. I would roughly estimate I start to have problems around the time I start to get 3 hatcheries going. I've heard numerous things like 1 overlord for every inject, 1 around the time your larva inject is around half done, or when you're around 10 food away from your cap. I've tried all of them but none of them quite seem adequate. If one of these is a good technique, let me know, and I'll work to perfect it. So how do keep up with proper overlord production throughout the various stages of the game in high masters/gm?
Sorry if this has been addressed. 177 pages is a bunch to skim through. Sorry to bump this, but it's been 10 pages with no reply. Someone have advice?
There really is no technique but lots of playing and doing the situation alot. If you play 5 hours a day or something and do this a lot you will eventually get better at it. I mean theres no other way other then playing a lot in that scenario where you get supply capped to stop yourself.
I had that problem and just kept playing and telling myself not to forget and now I don't get supply blocked at the times I used to a lot with playing and getting used to it. Best advice I can give you really.
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guys, I have a burning yet trivial question, On xel naga caverns, does a drone rush hard counter a 6pool?
thanks in advance!
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On February 22 2012 18:03 Selendis wrote:
guys, I have a burning yet trivial question, On xel naga caverns, does a drone rush hard counter a 6pool?
thanks in advance!
I would say no, best 6 pools drone to like 8 or to 9 drones and then do extractor trick, they save minerals for lings what they can in panic to use for extra drones + they most likely see your drones coming with overlord.
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Sup my zerg dawgs n' bros.
In ZvT, upgrades.
For ground, do you think it's good to get double upgrades for lings like Dimaga does or Carpace like leenock. Either way what upgrade should you get for lings at the evolution chamer? Carpace or Attack?
For air, do you get carpace or attack if you go mass mutas. Carpace is slightly better vs marines according to some unit testing statistics though attack is better when you're harassing and going for turrets, buildings, tanks and stuff.
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On February 22 2012 23:01 Olsson wrote:
Sup my zerg dawgs n' bros.
sigh :p
In ZvT, upgrades.
For ground, do you think it's good to get double upgrades for lings like Dimaga does or Carpace like leenock. Either way what upgrade should you get for lings at the evolution chamer? Carpace or Attack?
If only getting one I'd say it's usually best to get carapace first since that makes lings survive a tank-volley which can make quite the difference
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Hey guys, I think I've asked something similar in this thread before but I don't remember me getting a good answer to my question. So basically, I'm trying to focus on hitting injects and not getting supply blocked, and for that I feel like I need to have some proper macro build orders so I can develop my play. (btw, I'm silver)
Right now, I'm happy with my ZvT, but vZ and vP not so much^^. So my question is, what build orders should I use versus zerg and protoss? I would also be grateful as to what kind of composition and mid-late game plan that I should be aiming for in those matchups.
Also, when I play, I kind of need to have the build order in front of me to be able to play correctly. I write them down on a piece of paper, and as the game advances I just look at the paper and follow what I'm supposed to do. Obviously, this is a bad thing because it makes me feel really unsafe when I don't have my BO's in front of me. This then leads to the situation that when I for some reason can't follow my BO, my play gets absolutely SHIT. I just start to get nervous, I play sloppy and my macro suffers from that. What is the best way to avoid this? Should I just learn the BO's by heart and play a lot of games to make me more secure in my playing or what should I do?
So to sum it up, if you would be so kind to link 2 macro oriented builds vZ and vP and their "gameplan" (fast expands obviously). And what is the best way to solve my other problem.
(Really sorry for the lengthy post, hope you can see what I'm trying to say since I've got a serious lack of sleep atm and thanks a LOT to anyone helping me out! )
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EPT
