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(Edit: I do teach lessons for those who keep asking)
Hello everyone I am Yosho,
A little about me is that I play random frequently and study the game a bit, I enjoy the challenge and rising up the ladder facing names that I hear on Teamliquid.
I am a Random player but my main is mostly terran, to get to 1400 I used mostly the random race. My goal is to keep practicing until I have stable computer and then start entering and winning tournaments.
I told my stream that I would spend more time answering questions and fixing my chat. ( which I have no idea how to do, how do you get IRC on my stream chat? )
I have also been toying with new creations in strategy with stuff like;
9 barracks
10 depo
11 gas
On short maps this prevents any rush and literally keeps me up with the econ game even though I lose a few scvs orbital is up fast enough to keep me up with it. This prevents ANY cheese at the start. I will add replays later, for i'm not on the computer I saved them on.
Anyway, ask away ^^ I'll visit this thread regularly all day to answer questions.
My stream is marked under Vegasminion.
Usually I answer questions on the stream but today I will reply to the forums.
Will continue to answer questions from this thread; keep asking them!
--------------Replays here, Massive amount, All match ups, even tests and practices..-----------------------
[url blocked]
[url blocked]
[url blocked]
Uploaded - new replay packs!
http://www.filefront.com/17337133/Zerg.zip 10 zerg replays
http://www.filefront.com/17337136/Toss.zip 21 toss replays
http://www.filefront.com/17337137/Warden.zip 9 PvT's vs warden (2000 diamond terran)
Link to my stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/userstream.php?user=Vegasminion
http://sc2ranks.com/us/394799/Yosho
Update: I have asked for my stream to be featured and I should know sometime within a week if this will be allowed. For all you streamers who have needed help finding me this will be a big help and hopefully expand my capabilities in helping everyone.
Also incase people missed it I did open this thread to ask about any race; any matchup; any strategy; and more. It's not just terran anymore.
In the upcoming streams I will also try to give replays of the games that I do play near instant for al the viewers, however I need help finding a website that everyone loves and is the best place to upload / download from. Any feedback will help considered.
Update: 2 more replay packs have been added, 2nd is ladder games i lose a lot from cheese. Also a game vs LZgamer. and third I have a bunch of random versus zerg games to help the zerg players and show off my other races.
Update: May load new zerg replays soon.
Update:Yosho - A light take on things -
As many people continue learning the strategy of the game and progress that we have made so far and the ratings go up while the more distinguished players stand out. Players such like Huk and silver, we learn many things from a 1 point of view a take from every race and position. realcun's map read, all the pro's being asked about balance from their point of view.
I myself don't like to discuss much balance myself so i will talk about how improving the fundamentals of each race as I continue to play it.
As most of you know recently I hurt my neck and decided to practice more of races and let my rating tank so that when i am healed I simply rise again. However I have decided to not rise as terran, for when I played it i went from 500-1500 in only a matter of 2 weeks and found it rather easy after learning the build orders that are so far out there.
Most of the terran mechanics I find is very friendly; maybe not so much after the patch but the giant mule call down is powerful and the ability to mass turtle can stop those non aggressive players in their tracks. A mass turtle strategy can easily get you into diamond as people feel threatened by a defensive terran and have the urge to attack.
I am by no way saying terran is easy oh no, I am saying that terran is mostly about build orders and positioning. If the zerg can't get a surround we grow that much stronger. If the protoss are forced into a funnel concave we usually win the early game out right.
It isn't until collasai; storm; emp; medivacs come into play that micro is more so needed to climb higher in the ratings. The better you know how to get to these places and how to use these units the higher you will climb.
from my protoss point of view I have found that if the terran out techs me to one of these things such as massive siege tanks; emp; medivacs and I don't have enough counter tech to stop it, I will die. Even a mass bio army is so strong.
My take is that eventually the build orders will refine to one of three types of strategies.
1- the tech strat, trying to tech fast and hard to things like ravens.
2- the mass expansions, trying to mass out macro the enemy into submission. overwhelming the tech because of the limited amount of units.
3- the constant cheese or harrasment. very aggressive style play as you always try to cripple your opponent into submission.
These strategies are very dominant today. each can counter each other if played right but it comes down to these things. Finding out a players playstyle will show you what these things are and give you a large advantage as most people stick to what they know.
For example: I am a mass expander - I take many bases and force a giant macro battle that will usually take the win for me while I react to scouting information.
Trump: is a tech man he likes to have all sorts of tech and can be very aggressive but not unless he has tech to match it like tanks; vikings; medivacs.
Painuser: is a tech
TLO: is the aggressor
Which are you?
I haven't mentioned zerg because it's a whole different ball play.
Zerg is more reactionary and you have to combine all of these plays. Zerg is the balance between every one of them.
They have to mass expand; Be very aggressive; macro up giant armies and balancing the economy with it. on top of that part of our macro play is creep. We need a lot of it.
(note: I think zerg need a unit that suicides on the ground and spreads creep for a time period)
If zerg lacks in expansions they die very fast as their macro HAS to be superior to every race or they stand no chance in the units battles. For every races units are stronger zerg need more of them. It is easier for the other races to tech as zerg can't just stay on limited bases.
Do take note that it is not impossible for the player to keep up. But zerg takes more... harmony? More synchronization for what they need to do. Ying and yang between drones and fighting units.
The difference between a terran 1,000 and 1500 is build orders and multi tasking.
the difference between a protoss 1,000 and 1500 is knowing other strategies then 4 gate and positioning / when to be agressive.
the difference between zerg 1,000 and 1500 is harmony.
I am not saying that all toss 4 gate or all terrans are skill less. I am saying that they play a lot in the same. I reached 1500 with both protoss and terran refining build orders, macro'ing better, countering at the right times and positioning.
However with zerg I find that including all these is one element that makes it unable for most players to switch to zerg. Players who admit they would like to try it but feel like it's a lot harder to play the zerg style, for many pro's have said it and admit that zerg macro is just a whole new game.
With my rankings my zerg is at 1200-1300. Refining my harmony. It is easily my hardest race to learn. They are not underpowered they are just under learned. Some balance issues will probably be seen in the future though.
This little thought train is meant to show you how the playstyles are different. Maybe help people pick a race. Show you the different types of strategies that may fit your type and what type your friends are so you can defeat them. It's not a balance topic. It's just talking about the playstyles we all enjoy.
If you like to be strong with limited units, terran.
If you like to have a mass area of effect type units. Protoss. (collasai; storm; forcefield)
They can also be poweful with limited units but the styles are a little different.
Terran and protoss are more of a giant micro fest between the races.
If you want harmony and being everywhere at once with more of a mass type thought train, zerg.
I think a lot of this may change when we see larger maps such as ICCUP maps ( my favorites ).
However on blizzard maps and races. these are my thoughts.
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ummmm ya.....
User was warned for this post
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I've got a quick one for you. I'm still in bronze, largely because I play a lot on unreliable internet and so have very many "losses". I feel that I have a solid beginner's grasp of the mechanics though. Today, however, I was totally blindsided and roflpwned.
I played a match on Steppes against Zerg. Things were rolling along well, I managed to preserve my scout SCV and the other guy just let it go so I got a good second look into his base and saw 3 roaches. I figured this was np, as I was already mixing in marauders and had just finished blue flame upgrade.
I was about to go for my first push, had almost finished my second CC to expand along with the push, when BAM, 10 roaches unburrow in my mineral line. He would micro burrow/unburrow with a smaller group attacking random supply depots to keep me from just sitting next to the mineral line. Long story short, I hung on a while longer but with such a devastating econ hit I finally had to give up as I just couldnt get detectors out and was long behind him expansion wise.
Should I respond to scouted roaches with detectors? The thought had never occurred to me before. If so, ravens or a turret or two?
tl;dr Should getting detectors be part of my standard response to scouted roaches? I've been going at least 4/5 (in bronze, i know..) since getting halfway decent internet but was totally blindsided by burrow-move roaches.
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What zerg strategies do you consistently lose to, or at least give you serious problems? Both early-game & mid-game.
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Here's a question specifc to TvP. What is your standard opening? Is it the 111? Suppose you open 111, what scouting techniques do you employ (2nd scan? 3rd scan? reaper?) such that you can get enough time to prepare for proxy void and 4 gate all in? Generally what is the strategy to defend against those 2? Is it a problem with opening or something else?
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Ok, more lie since you seem to win way more than losing what you do in TvT, specially since you scan for vikings and tanks, more vikings and tanks ?
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How to counter 2-3 gates + 1 robo push as a terran? Bunkers are pretty bad against immortals. Should i go siege or just go bioball stim with medivac? Zemotes are devastating agaonst bioball...
Anotjer question, countering blink stalkers : non sieged tanks or marauders? Also do you use ghost as a part of the 2gates1robo countering strategy.
Those are vey theoric questions but even as a high platine player i don't know the answers.
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On September 14 2010 01:56 SocialFilth wrote:
ummmm ya.....
you shouldnt be aloud to make posts
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Hi, i am a protoss looking to start playing terran! (1300 diamond as toss)
Can you give me the build orders (more specific the better) for the stuff I've seen from GSL listed below?
1. TvZ tank drop on LT
2. TvZ marine/tank imba-ness
3. TvP dual proxy rax MM rape
4. TvP dual proxy rax marine/bunker rush.
much <3 if you can help me! I trust that it will be detailed and most efficient.
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Go back to Trump and test it out. Post replays please.
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On September 14 2010 02:09 truckerdaves wrote:you shouldnt be aloud to make posts
You shouldn't be allowed to criticize others.
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Hey, im a 700 random platinum player and i have a question about TvZ gameplay. What can T do to fight early blings from Z? This has been very problematic for me as lings eat up marauders and Blings fucking rape my wall and marines to pieces. I suppose i could possibly get hellions out in time, but that would not work to the zerg who really really gets early Blings, which has the possibility of being around 4 or 5 minutes into the game depending on the variation. What can i as a random player do to make myself better in this MU?
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On September 14 2010 01:58 xxWhistler wrote:
I've got a quick one for you. I'm still in bronze, largely because I play a lot on unreliable internet and so have very many "losses". I feel that I have a solid beginner's grasp of the mechanics though. Today, however, I was totally blindsided and roflpwned.
I played a match on Steppes against Zerg. Things were rolling along well, I managed to preserve my scout SCV and the other guy just let it go so I got a good second look into his base and saw 3 roaches. I figured this was np, as I was already mixing in marauders and had just finished blue flame upgrade.
I was about to go for my first push, had almost finished my second CC to expand along with the push, when BAM, 10 roaches unburrow in my mineral line. He would micro burrow/unburrow with a smaller group attacking random supply depots to keep me from just sitting next to the mineral line. Long story short, I hung on a while longer but with such a devastating econ hit I finally had to give up as I just couldnt get detectors out and was long behind him expansion wise.
Should I respond to scouted roaches with detectors? The thought had never occurred to me before. If so, ravens or a turret or two?
tl;dr Should getting detectors be part of my standard response to scouted roaches? I've been going at least 4/5 (in bronze, i know..) since getting halfway decent internet but was totally blindsided by burrow-move roaches.
did you have an orbital command at all?
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On September 14 2010 02:11 Bair wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 02:09 truckerdaves wrote:On September 14 2010 01:56 SocialFilth wrote:
ummmm ya..... you shouldnt be aloud to make posts You shouldn't be allowed to criticize others.
yeah you're just trying to be clever here, but he actually has a valid criticism. That post is completely unacceptable.
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On September 14 2010 02:11 Bair wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 02:09 truckerdaves wrote:On September 14 2010 01:56 SocialFilth wrote:
ummmm ya..... you shouldnt be aloud to make posts You shouldn't be allowed to criticize others.
Your mind must be altered if you think that person doesn't deserve criticism.
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How do you live with yourself knowing that every time you make a reaper a puppy is decapitated?
User was temp banned for this post.
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On September 14 2010 01:58 xxWhistler wrote:
I've got a quick one for you. I'm still in bronze, largely because I play a lot on unreliable internet and so have very many "losses". I feel that I have a solid beginner's grasp of the mechanics though. Today, however, I was totally blindsided and roflpwned.
I played a match on Steppes against Zerg. Things were rolling along well, I managed to preserve my scout SCV and the other guy just let it go so I got a good second look into his base and saw 3 roaches. I figured this was np, as I was already mixing in marauders and had just finished blue flame upgrade.
I was about to go for my first push, had almost finished my second CC to expand along with the push, when BAM, 10 roaches unburrow in my mineral line. He would micro burrow/unburrow with a smaller group attacking random supply depots to keep me from just sitting next to the mineral line. Long story short, I hung on a while longer but with such a devastating econ hit I finally had to give up as I just couldnt get detectors out and was long behind him expansion wise.
Should I respond to scouted roaches with detectors? The thought had never occurred to me before. If so, ravens or a turret or two?
tl;dr Should getting detectors be part of my standard response to scouted roaches? I've been going at least 4/5 (in bronze, i know..) since getting halfway decent internet but was totally blindsided by burrow-move roaches.
As a terran player I learned a specific timing in my builds where I know the enemy can get burrow or muta's, at that stage I auto add turrets to my bases for a "just in case" this prevents any muta harass and being surprised with burrowed roaches.
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On September 14 2010 01:59 BlasiuS wrote:
What zerg strategies do you consistently lose to, or at least give you serious problems? Both early-game & mid-game.
Very very aggresive zerg who are good at expanding and keeping me from expanding, basically people who really have when to drone up a very good understanding. If they aren't balanced evenly I have not much a problem taking them out.
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On September 14 2010 02:03 yalag wrote:
Here's a question specifc to TvP. What is your standard opening? Is it the 111? Suppose you open 111, what scouting techniques do you employ (2nd scan? 3rd scan? reaper?) such that you can get enough time to prepare for proxy void and 4 gate all in? Generally what is the strategy to defend against those 2? Is it a problem with opening or something else?
I like to keep a unit near their bases to scout aggression, scouting wise I do spend a scan at specific points of the game, such as when my factory finishes, or the 3rd scan that comes up. My opening is pretty universal vs all protoss strats until that phase.
Vs 4 gate I drop a second bunker and the marines + stim are ready or nearly ready when the void rays arrive. I try to get only marines at the start.
My strategies consist of hellions drops, the classic 3 rax or 2 rax into ghost with vikings and few more.
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On September 14 2010 02:26 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 01:59 BlasiuS wrote:
What zerg strategies do you consistently lose to, or at least give you serious problems? Both early-game & mid-game. Very very aggresive zerg who are good at expanding and keeping me from expanding, basically people who really have when to drone up a very good understanding. If they aren't balanced evenly I have not much a problem taking them out.
what do you mean by 'very very aggressive zerg'? early mass speedlings? speedling/roach? mass roach? baneling bust? 1base muta? How do good zergs prevent you from expanding?
Yes I agree that knowing when to drone is still one of the skills that majority of zergs don't have down yet (myself included).
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On September 14 2010 02:15 awu25 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 14 2010 01:58 xxWhistler wrote:
I've got a quick one for you. I'm still in bronze, largely because I play a lot on unreliable internet and so have very many "losses". I feel that I have a solid beginner's grasp of the mechanics though. Today, however, I was totally blindsided and roflpwned.
I played a match on Steppes against Zerg. Things were rolling along well, I managed to preserve my scout SCV and the other guy just let it go so I got a good second look into his base and saw 3 roaches. I figured this was np, as I was already mixing in marauders and had just finished blue flame upgrade.
I was about to go for my first push, had almost finished my second CC to expand along with the push, when BAM, 10 roaches unburrow in my mineral line. He would micro burrow/unburrow with a smaller group attacking random supply depots to keep me from just sitting next to the mineral line. Long story short, I hung on a while longer but with such a devastating econ hit I finally had to give up as I just couldnt get detectors out and was long behind him expansion wise.
Should I respond to scouted roaches with detectors? The thought had never occurred to me before. If so, ravens or a turret or two?
tl;dr Should getting detectors be part of my standard response to scouted roaches? I've been going at least 4/5 (in bronze, i know..) since getting halfway decent internet but was totally blindsided by burrow-move roaches. did you have an orbital command at all?
Yes, I'm bronze, but I do lurk on TL. I'd be pretty remiss if I hadn't figured out that was a necessity yet. Every time I would scan he would move his roaches away and then bring them right back. I'd have to look at the replay again, but unless I'm just giving myself the benefit of the doubt, I'm pretty sure I'd just used a MULE, so no energy.
Admittedly, I should have had more troops next to the mineral line, instead of in a newb ball right behind the entrance to my base.
EDIT: Missed response while typing. What do you use as the basis for your timing? Game time, supply count?
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The most effective way to counter a banshee TvT opening?
Thor seems to be one way, but I'm wondering if you prefer to counter that with turrets at all.
Or go for early harass to delay banshee timing?
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Russian Federation82 Posts
k yosho i have a couple of questions
high ranked gold Terran
1) whats counter to banelings if you dont want to get siege tanks (unfair units)
2) if my enemy is makin alot of zealots should i add in ravens for auto turret and missile launcher?
3) it eveyr viable to make first command cenre into Fortress against Zergling rush?
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I can answer number 3 JamieDukes.
No.
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On September 14 2010 02:15 truckerdaves wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 02:11 Bair wrote:On September 14 2010 02:09 truckerdaves wrote:On September 14 2010 01:56 SocialFilth wrote:
ummmm ya..... you shouldnt be aloud to make posts You shouldn't be allowed to criticize others. Your mind must be altered if you think that person doesn't deserve criticism.
I never said that he did not deserve criticism, but that is what our mods are for.
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Hyrule19057 Posts
On September 14 2010 02:36 JamieDukes wrote:
k yosho i have a couple of questions
high ranked gold Terran
1) whats counter to banelings if you dont want to get siege tanks (unfair units)
2) if my enemy is makin alot of zealots should i add in ravens for auto turret and missile launcher?
3) it eveyr viable to make first command cenre into Fortress against Zergling rush?
1) Marauders and/or baller micro
2) No.
3) Only if you want to lose.
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On September 14 2010 02:07 Goliath-sc wrote:
How to counter 2-3 gates + 1 robo push as a terran? Bunkers are pretty bad against immortals. Should i go siege or just go bioball stim with medivac? Zemotes are devastating agaonst bioball...
Anotjer question, countering blink stalkers : non sieged tanks or marauders? Also do you use ghost as a part of the 2gates1robo countering strategy.
Those are vey theoric questions but even as a high platine player i don't know the answers.
I enjoy ghosts against immortals but I always make sure I can prepare for collasai too as if immortals don't work they usually try that next, I do keep up 2 bunkers and more marines then marauders.
Zealots I try pre igniter hellions. (if they are going the tech route to templars)
against blink stalkers bio is good, try to keep the battles away from your base.
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On September 14 2010 02:11 Man.Magic wrote:
Go back to Trump and test it out. Post replays please.
I have won against trump with my strategy yesterday. replays of a few games will be coming later.
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Whats the best way to open aggressively and stay aggressive against a fast FEing player who is turtleing?
I've found that a pair of quick hellions works sometimes but only if the other player isn't paying even the slightest attention.
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very simple question: Did you pick terran because of the terran campaign? What do you think about the idea that Terran dominates the rankings due to the Terran campaign?
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How do you deal with TvZ if the Z gets to midgame muta/bling? My only hope right now is to go for mass reaper and do enough damage to buy time to get marines/turrents and hopefully an expo before the mutas pop.
Also how do you expo safely on oasis if you don't have total map control (unlike, say, LT where it's easy).
And what is your plan for dealing with mass chargealot/storm with possible robo support or a VR transition? Push push push with hellions?
Finally do you believe in walling your choke in TvT against the threat of a stimmed marauder rush?
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On September 14 2010 02:20 Floophead_III wrote:
How do you live with yourself knowing that every time you make a reaper a puppy is decapitated?
haha i laughed
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On September 14 2010 02:10 wxwx wrote:
Hi, i am a protoss looking to start playing terran! (1300 diamond as toss)
Can you give me the build orders (more specific the better) for the stuff I've seen from GSL listed below?
1. TvZ tank drop on LT
2. TvZ marine/tank imba-ness
3. TvP dual proxy rax MM rape
4. TvP dual proxy rax marine/bunker rush.
much <3 if you can help me! I trust that it will be detailed and most efficient.
I don't really have the exact build order for these, as I don't watch GSL and I come up with mostly my own strats. The things I research are map specifics and timings. The rest I come up naturally, the only strategy I use that I haven't tested out myself is the 1-1-1 and even that I have come up with my own variation.
I do not know the GSL exact timings that these players use.
I would guess;
1- 1-1-1 into a tank drop,
2 - barracks 12 factory 15 add 2 more barracks and expo into ading another factory then slowly pushing (depends on map)
3 - barracks at 9 barracks at 11, depo when you can afford it and mass marines in.
4 - same thing just make bunkers.
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On September 14 2010 02:54 sikyon wrote:
How do you deal with TvZ if the Z gets to midgame muta/bling? My only hope right now is to go for mass reaper and do enough damage to buy time to get marines/turrents and hopefully an expo before the mutas pop.
Also how do you expo safely on oasis if you don't have total map control (unlike, say, LT where it's easy).
And what is your plan for dealing with mass chargealot/storm with possible robo support or a VR transition? Push push push with hellions?
Finally do you believe in walling your choke in TvT against the threat of a stimmed marauder rush?
has anyone played with the idea of bunker leap frogging a slow push to help marines not die from banelings so hard?
maybe play around with forwards sensor tower?
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On September 14 2010 02:13 truckerdaves wrote:
Hey, im a 700 random platinum player and i have a question about TvZ gameplay. What can T do to fight early blings from Z? This has been very problematic for me as lings eat up marauders and Blings fucking rape my wall and marines to pieces. I suppose i could possibly get hellions out in time, but that would not work to the zerg who really really gets early Blings, which has the possibility of being around 4 or 5 minutes into the game depending on the variation. What can i as a random player do to make myself better in this MU?
Against banelings I try to wall off until i have something that counters that, for example hellions. But I rarely ever use depo's to wall off against a zerg as that can be problematic. I use more of a 1-1-1 variation.
Practice walling off better and harassing, don't be too afraid to expand but don't do it if you know the expo will just die. Practice build orders and get out a feel for when the zerg transitions into different things.
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On September 14 2010 02:20 Floophead_III wrote:
How do you live with yourself knowing that every time you make a reaper a puppy is decapitated?
I rarely ever make reapers, sometimes I practice the strat, sometimes I do it late in the game. However I rarely, EVER make reapers.
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What Vegas talking about in term of 9 rax is dead on.
You can 9 Rax 11 Depot 12 Refinery with almost identical economy by 17 scvs or so, because having the mule run longer evens out the minerals you have pulled in. I think 9 Rax 10 Depot 11 Refinery is quite a bit worse... you really scrape together minerals.
Anyone who is still blindly 10 Depot, 12 Rax, 13 Refinery'ing without thought to other strategies is limiting themselves significantly.
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On September 14 2010 02:54 sikyon wrote:
How do you deal with TvZ if the Z gets to midgame muta/bling? My only hope right now is to go for mass reaper and do enough damage to buy time to get marines/turrents and hopefully an expo before the mutas pop.
Also how do you expo safely on oasis if you don't have total map control (unlike, say, LT where it's easy).
And what is your plan for dealing with mass chargealot/storm with possible robo support or a VR transition? Push push push with hellions?
Finally do you believe in walling your choke in TvT against the threat of a stimmed marauder rush?
I can answer that last one. It depends on the map. sometimes it is good if you are on a map like steppes of war or desert oasis, but on maps like Kulas Ravine, the marauders will have the distinct advantage simply because they have sight of your first extremely vulnerable supply depot, and all the army in the world wont help you because marauders will outrange everything at that point of the game if it is behind a wall. Your army has to reach his army, but his marauders only have to reach your wall.
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do you sometimes have an uncontrollable evil chuckle or the urge to pet your naked cat when you drop blue flame hellions in mineral lines?
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Hey Yosho. I just wanna know, what is (one of) your main build orders against protoss? And why do you use it? Any comments as far as transitioning as the game goes on?
I'm not looking for any noob proxy BS. Just what you normally go with for solid game play.
Same thing vs zerg would be cool, but I'm most concerned about TvP.
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What do you hate seeing a zerg do?
ie what is it that when you scout a zerg doing it, that you go "fuck, not this again"
On the same vein, is there anything zerg can do that takes you by suprise after the 6pool window?
What zerg strat do you lose to most often, and what do you think you can do to prevent that?
edit: apparently we're all posting our ranks, 600 diamond zerg with 300 bonus pool.
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On September 14 2010 02:30 BlasiuS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 02:26 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 01:59 BlasiuS wrote:
What zerg strategies do you consistently lose to, or at least give you serious problems? Both early-game & mid-game. Very very aggresive zerg who are good at expanding and keeping me from expanding, basically people who really have when to drone up a very good understanding. If they aren't balanced evenly I have not much a problem taking them out. what do you mean by 'very very aggressive zerg'? early mass speedlings? speedling/roach? mass roach? baneling bust? 1base muta? How do good zergs prevent you from expanding? Yes I agree that knowing when to drone is still one of the skills that majority of zergs don't have down yet (myself included).
As in every time I move out, he overwhelms my army composition. If I move out with more marines then marauders he sends in banelings from angle's and flanks / surround me. If i move out with hellions I have roaches everywhere. a zerg that is great at scouting and using the information he used against me. As if everytime I move out with any army composition he has the counter to it.
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On September 14 2010 02:33 xxWhistler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 02:15 awu25 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 14 2010 01:58 xxWhistler wrote:
I've got a quick one for you. I'm still in bronze, largely because I play a lot on unreliable internet and so have very many "losses". I feel that I have a solid beginner's grasp of the mechanics though. Today, however, I was totally blindsided and roflpwned.
I played a match on Steppes against Zerg. Things were rolling along well, I managed to preserve my scout SCV and the other guy just let it go so I got a good second look into his base and saw 3 roaches. I figured this was np, as I was already mixing in marauders and had just finished blue flame upgrade.
I was about to go for my first push, had almost finished my second CC to expand along with the push, when BAM, 10 roaches unburrow in my mineral line. He would micro burrow/unburrow with a smaller group attacking random supply depots to keep me from just sitting next to the mineral line. Long story short, I hung on a while longer but with such a devastating econ hit I finally had to give up as I just couldnt get detectors out and was long behind him expansion wise.
Should I respond to scouted roaches with detectors? The thought had never occurred to me before. If so, ravens or a turret or two?
tl;dr Should getting detectors be part of my standard response to scouted roaches? I've been going at least 4/5 (in bronze, i know..) since getting halfway decent internet but was totally blindsided by burrow-move roaches. did you have an orbital command at all? Yes, I'm bronze, but I do lurk on TL. I'd be pretty remiss if I hadn't figured out that was a necessity yet. Every time I would scan he would move his roaches away and then bring them right back. I'd have to look at the replay again, but unless I'm just giving myself the benefit of the doubt, I'm pretty sure I'd just used a MULE, so no energy. Admittedly, I should have had more troops next to the mineral line, instead of in a newb ball right behind the entrance to my base. EDIT: Missed response while typing. What do you use as the basis for your timing? Game time, supply count?
When I expo, and he's had a lair since I put it down, I expect something soon. If he's getting lair while I expo, it's when I get my 1-1 upgrades.
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i have a question for you sir. how do u beat a macro intense zerg? because of their mobility and my immobility as terran, how do u expand safely and still manage to contain without getting outmassed?
i've played countless games against my friend and countless times i lose the same way -- i get outexpanded and i try to expand but it just gets shutdown so i can't expand.
it's a playstyle that i can't seem to beat. i don't have problems with other zerg on ladder most of the time.
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On September 14 2010 02:35 LuciferSC wrote:
The most effective way to counter a banshee TvT opening?
Thor seems to be one way, but I'm wondering if you prefer to counter that with turrets at all.
Or go for early harass to delay banshee timing?
Raven and 1 viking. I get 1 viking first, switch addons get a raven. If done fast enough you have it in time. Raven is usefull for any push as well.
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On September 14 2010 02:36 JamieDukes wrote:
k yosho i have a couple of questions
high ranked gold Terran
1) whats counter to banelings if you dont want to get siege tanks (unfair units)
2) if my enemy is makin alot of zealots should i add in ravens for auto turret and missile launcher?
3) it eveyr viable to make first command cenre into Fortress against Zergling rush?
1) hellions
2) hellions
3) not really, build a bunker withing your minerals and a barracks to help wall off. use scvs to fight when you can overwhelm him or you have 1 marine out. have 2-3 scvs auto repair
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United States4796 Posts
Hey Are you the Xanga yosho?
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On September 14 2010 02:54 SilverPotato wrote:
Whats the best way to open aggressively and stay aggressive against a fast FEing player who is turtleing?
I've found that a pair of quick hellions works sometimes but only if the other player isn't paying even the slightest attention.
Match their expansions and attack in multiple places at the same time. keep a unit at every expo so he has to send more then just 1 scv and everytime he moves out, flank him. Maybe out expand him forcing him to attack.
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On September 14 2010 03:32 DivinO wrote:
Hey Are you the Xanga yosho?
No
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On September 14 2010 03:15 Shiladie wrote:
What do you hate seeing a zerg do?
ie what is it that when you scout a zerg doing it, that you go "fuck, not this again"
On the same vein, is there anything zerg can do that takes you by suprise after the 6pool window?
What zerg strat do you lose to most often, and what do you think you can do to prevent that?
edit: apparently we're all posting our ranks, 600 diamond zerg with 300 bonus pool.
I lose most to a zerg containing me to 1 base, and drops in my base can make me rage everytime I try to push out.
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How are you supposed to win TvZ on DO against a muta/ling/bling Z, with the exception of 5rax reaper?
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On September 14 2010 03:26 ahcho00 wrote:
i have a question for you sir. how do u beat a macro intense zerg? because of their mobility and my immobility as terran, how do u expand safely and still manage to contain without getting outmassed?
i've played countless games against my friend and countless times i lose the same way -- i get outexpanded and i try to expand but it just gets shutdown so i can't expand.
it's a playstyle that i can't seem to beat. i don't have problems with other zerg on ladder most of the time.
I get my 2nd base and then try limiting their expo's, while I attack I expand so they can't stop it from going up as easy.
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On September 14 2010 03:40 KaiserJohan wrote:
How are you supposed to win TvZ on DO against a muta/ling/bling Z, with the exception of 5rax reaper?
a few thors for splash ( spread out ) marines, hellions. Move the marines behind the thors and hellions when he engages and enjoy the blood splatter.
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How are you going to pressure his econ while deffing your two bases which are very far apart from a giant muta blob (magic box)?
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What gives you the most trouble trying a marauder/hellion all in against zerg?
Generally the type that get their before the spire pops and the sky is swarming with mutas.
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What is your preferred unit composition against muta/ling/baneling in the midgame on a standard map (say xel naga caverns or cross positions on metalopolis)? Edit: this was already answered with thor, rine, hellion? sry -_-
On those maps, do you like to fast expand (build cc before 30 food)? If so how do you hold it against early pressure (specifically vs zerg)?
In TvT, how do you play against tank-viking?
What's your favorite unit in SC2? 
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On September 14 2010 03:43 KaiserJohan wrote:
How are you going to pressure his econ while deffing your two bases which are very far apart from a giant muta blob (magic box)?
Randomly sending hellions from different sides trying to attack drones is my favorite, make a giant push in the middle so he masses units then retreat when he's producing units. a drop here and there just to snipe drones, maybe in multiple places WHILE attacking as well so he loses something somewhere.
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On September 14 2010 03:47 Moja wrote:What is your preferred unit composition against muta/ling/baneling in the midgame on a standard map (say xel naga caverns or cross positions on metalopolis)? On those maps, do you like to fast expand (build cc before 30 food)? If so how do you hold it against early pressure (specifically vs zerg)? In TvT, how do you play against tank-viking? What's your favorite unit in SC2?
I like to go with hellions and marines + thors, it's my favorite composition. I sometimes go thor marauder hellion viking, not as viable but it really messes with their heads.
I greatly enjoy tank - viking, I add marines and I have a really solid play as it, I never lose when someone differs as I am well practiced. I try to confuse the player with multiple battles as multi tasking is a strong suit of mine.
My favorite unit is the mutalisk.
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On September 14 2010 03:12 Shamaya wrote:
Hey Yosho. I just wanna know, what is (one of) your main build orders against protoss? And why do you use it? Any comments as far as transitioning as the game goes on?
I'm not looking for any noob proxy BS. Just what you normally go with for solid game play.
Same thing vs zerg would be cool, but I'm most concerned about TvP.
i like to go 2 rax ghost into drop play, I try to force their army out into the middle by controlling it and assaulting their expo a little. I don't go all in just a little bit to force a small engagement, retreat and fast drop in their main, snipe the hatch and move back. Putting a ghost on ledges like LT is just fun too.
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Vegasminion, how do u hotkey bulidings / do production macro?
i'm a zerg player, and i chose zerg in BW from the very beginning cz i liked how easy the production was. I find with terran, managing individual production buildings is kind of annoying for me. when u have mixed builds that is not all rax or all factory, it gets even more annoying. i want to try using terran more proficiently.
how do u hotkey your production buildings, or macro unit production structures in general?
do u hotkey all production buildings to one key and tab thru everything?
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On September 14 2010 03:53 waffling1 wrote:
Vegasminion, how do u hotkey bulidings / do production macro?
i'm a zerg player, and i chose zerg in BW from the very beginning cz i liked how easy the production was. I find with terran, managing individual production buildings is kind of annoying for me. when u have mixed builds that is not all rax or all factory, it gets even more annoying. i want to try using terran more proficiently.
how do u hotkey your production buildings, or macro unit production structures in general?
do u hotkey all production buildings to one key and tab thru everything?
1 scouting scv
2 CC's
3 specific units
4 all production facilities
5 specific units
6 specific units
7 specific units
9 specific units
0 specific units
I tab through with 4 while attacking, I find it very efficient.
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how did u go about getting accustomed to using the 8-0 hotkeys?
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In TvT do you prefer to open with early aggression, a FE, or 1 base turtling into a timing push/contain?
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On September 14 2010 03:49 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 03:47 Moja wrote:What is your preferred unit composition against muta/ling/baneling in the midgame on a standard map (say xel naga caverns or cross positions on metalopolis)? On those maps, do you like to fast expand (build cc before 30 food)? If so how do you hold it against early pressure (specifically vs zerg)? In TvT, how do you play against tank-viking? What's your favorite unit in SC2? I like to go with hellions and marines + thors, it's my favorite composition. I sometimes go thor marauder hellion viking, not as viable but it really messes with their heads. I greatly enjoy tank - viking, I add marines and I have a really solid play as it, I never lose when someone differs as I am well practiced. I try to confuse the player with multiple battles as multi tasking is a strong suit of mine. My favorite unit is the mutalisk.
About the hellion/rine/thor; how... are you supposed to survive the blings?
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On September 14 2010 03:56 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 03:53 waffling1 wrote:
Vegasminion, how do u hotkey bulidings / do production macro?
i'm a zerg player, and i chose zerg in BW from the very beginning cz i liked how easy the production was. I find with terran, managing individual production buildings is kind of annoying for me. when u have mixed builds that is not all rax or all factory, it gets even more annoying. i want to try using terran more proficiently.
how do u hotkey your production buildings, or macro unit production structures in general?
do u hotkey all production buildings to one key and tab thru everything? 1 scouting scv 2 CC's 3 specific units 4 all production facilities 5 specific units 6 specific units 7 specific units 9 specific units 0 specific units I tab through with 4 while attacking, I find it very efficient.
Why don't you use 8?
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how do you mech on blistering sands tvp? what sort of opening build order survives the initial 4gate rush and allows you to safely take your natural expansion? how do you push towards the protoss natural while not getting flanked from the watch towers? around what upgrades do you push at, and how do you defend your gold third from the more mobile toss army?
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at high level diamond early TvT seems to be all about the early marine/hellion drop or pushes. wat build do you think is the most solid?
I tend to get a reactor on my barracks and get hellions but i seem to lose or get contained by a quick/tank + medivac push
is the marine/tank/medivac a more solid opening?
thanks
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On September 14 2010 04:02 waffling1 wrote:
how did u go about getting accustomed to using the 8-0 hotkeys?
While I micro I just click on the tab with my mouse, much easier for me and more accurate.
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On September 14 2010 04:03 Moja wrote:
In TvT do you prefer to open with early aggression, a FE, or 1 base turtling into a timing push/contain?
I love 1-1-1 and I expand after I have the buildings and 400 minerals rise up.
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On September 14 2010 04:07 KaiserJohan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 03:49 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 03:47 Moja wrote:What is your preferred unit composition against muta/ling/baneling in the midgame on a standard map (say xel naga caverns or cross positions on metalopolis)? On those maps, do you like to fast expand (build cc before 30 food)? If so how do you hold it against early pressure (specifically vs zerg)? In TvT, how do you play against tank-viking? What's your favorite unit in SC2? I like to go with hellions and marines + thors, it's my favorite composition. I sometimes go thor marauder hellion viking, not as viable but it really messes with their heads. I greatly enjoy tank - viking, I add marines and I have a really solid play as it, I never lose when someone differs as I am well practiced. I try to confuse the player with multiple battles as multi tasking is a strong suit of mine. My favorite unit is the mutalisk. About the hellion/rine/thor; how... are you supposed to survive the blings?
Harass lings early on if they don't go roaches,
Move the marines behind the hor when the lings / banelings arrive and the hellions up front, if he only has lings / blings / muta you can move the hellions behind too, it's a mow down.
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On September 14 2010 04:08 Chriamon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 03:56 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 03:53 waffling1 wrote:
Vegasminion, how do u hotkey bulidings / do production macro?
i'm a zerg player, and i chose zerg in BW from the very beginning cz i liked how easy the production was. I find with terran, managing individual production buildings is kind of annoying for me. when u have mixed builds that is not all rax or all factory, it gets even more annoying. i want to try using terran more proficiently.
how do u hotkey your production buildings, or macro unit production structures in general?
do u hotkey all production buildings to one key and tab thru everything? 1 scouting scv 2 CC's 3 specific units 4 all production facilities 5 specific units 6 specific units 7 specific units 9 specific units 0 specific units I tab through with 4 while attacking, I find it very efficient. Why don't you use 8?
I do, oops ^^
8 specific units
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Here's a question for you:
Have you ever tried ravens builds ?
if so, how do you think protoss can counter these ?
(Im talking about either marine,tank,raven or marine raven banshee or combo that look like that)
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On September 14 2010 04:08 rauk wrote:
how do you mech on blistering sands tvp? what sort of opening build order survives the initial 4gate rush and allows you to safely take your natural expansion? how do you push towards the protoss natural while not getting flanked from the watch towers? around what upgrades do you push at, and how do you defend your gold third from the more mobile toss army?
1- start off with bio, transition
2 - planetary fortress expo, keep a bunker in your main base to retreat to close to your production facilities so you have less walking distance needed
3 - force an engagement on his army, take towers
4 - usually 1-1 but depends on the build
5 - planetary fortress. (can make more orbitals in main base to add mules it works, but you have to be ahead).
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On September 14 2010 04:08 YoiChiBow wrote:
at high level diamond early TvT seems to be all about the early marine/hellion drop or pushes. wat build do you think is the most solid?
I tend to get a reactor on my barracks and get hellions but i seem to lose or get contained by a quick/tank + medivac push
is the marine/tank/medivac a more solid opening?
thanks
I never really get hellions in TvT, my build I just form a concave at my ramp and it shuts down any aggresive hellion play.
I think 1-1-1 is most solid with marines, tanks, raven, vikings.
It is if you have air control, but if you don't you need vikings.
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On September 14 2010 04:12 Yokoblue wrote:
Here's a question for you:
Have you ever tried ravens builds ?
if so, how do you think protoss can counter these ?
(Im talking about either marine,tank,raven or marine raven banshee or combo that look like that)
High templars are good at countering ravens in any build. Feedback is exceptional.
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what are some good TvP builds that only involve one inital barracks?
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On September 14 2010 04:18 SilentCrono wrote:
what are some good TvP builds that only involve one inital barracks?
1-1-1, cauthon luck build, any 9 rax cheese. SCV rush??? Ghost mech.
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Yosho, I have a question for Diamond level play:
What do you do to punish Protoss for getting a fast expo followed by 4gate + robo.? It feels like 4gate's incredible aggression potential is used as a defensive measure instead of offense, and an attack on the Protoss (be it 3rax mmg or 1/1/1) comes too late to take down the nexus or deliver a killing blow.
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I've been 9 raxing since early in the beta. You are best off going for
9 rax
10 depot
11 OC
11 marine
12 gas
Since you are cutting scvs for the earlier rax, you want the orbital ASAP to make up for the missing scvs.
The timings work out well. You'll have ~150 minerals when the rax and depot finish (they finish around the same time).
This 9 rax build is only slightly less economical than a 12 rax. You can a thread about it here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124014
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On September 14 2010 04:11 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 04:07 KaiserJohan wrote:On September 14 2010 03:49 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 03:47 Moja wrote:What is your preferred unit composition against muta/ling/baneling in the midgame on a standard map (say xel naga caverns or cross positions on metalopolis)? On those maps, do you like to fast expand (build cc before 30 food)? If so how do you hold it against early pressure (specifically vs zerg)? In TvT, how do you play against tank-viking? What's your favorite unit in SC2? I like to go with hellions and marines + thors, it's my favorite composition. I sometimes go thor marauder hellion viking, not as viable but it really messes with their heads. I greatly enjoy tank - viking, I add marines and I have a really solid play as it, I never lose when someone differs as I am well practiced. I try to confuse the player with multiple battles as multi tasking is a strong suit of mine. My favorite unit is the mutalisk. About the hellion/rine/thor; how... are you supposed to survive the blings? Harass lings early on if they don't go roaches, Move the marines behind the hor when the lings / banelings arrive and the hellions up front, if he only has lings / blings / muta you can move the hellions behind too, it's a mow down.
Can you upload a replay doing that? I just have a hard time imagining it :p
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How do you deal with good muta harass? It seems like marines just get outrun (unless stimmed) and I slowly lose one building or some workers here and there. Turrets don't really seems like an option if it's a 5 muta harass.
When walling off vs zerg, how do you deal with the problem of needing different sorts of walls vs early pool and vs banelings? If you're in a bad starting position, baneling-proof walls prevent tech labs.
How do you maintain map vision/control vs zerg? Any suggestions at breaking out of being contained to 1 base? It seems like a lot of zerg players either have mutas, which prevent me from expanding, or else have a ground force outside my main.
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On September 14 2010 04:20 dudeman001 wrote:
Yosho, I have a question for Diamond level play:
What do you do to punish Protoss for getting a fast expo followed by 4gate + robo.? It feels like 4gate's incredible aggression potential is used as a defensive measure instead of offense, and an attack on the Protoss (be it 3rax mmg or 1/1/1) comes too late to take down the nexus or deliver a killing blow.
Go straight for a helion drop maybe,
I have countered this by dropping units in their main and sniping them. My 9 rax 10 depo build counters this on 2 playered maps, on 4 player maps, expo fast as well or go a very early attack. planning for early aggression with the capability to fall back and not die is usually good.
Scout it. go all in with an army + scvs sometimes work.
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On September 14 2010 04:20 AraqirG wrote:I've been 9 raxing since early in the beta. You are best off going for 9 rax 10 depot 11 OC 11 marine 12 gas Since you are cutting scvs for the earlier rax, you want the orbital ASAP to make up for the missing scvs. The timings work out well. You'll have ~150 minerals when the rax and depot finish (they finish around the same time). This 9 rax build is only slightly less economical than a 12 rax. You can a thread about it here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124014
That's the same build I do  Never read your thread though.
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On September 14 2010 04:20 KaiserJohan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 04:11 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 04:07 KaiserJohan wrote:On September 14 2010 03:49 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 03:47 Moja wrote:What is your preferred unit composition against muta/ling/baneling in the midgame on a standard map (say xel naga caverns or cross positions on metalopolis)? On those maps, do you like to fast expand (build cc before 30 food)? If so how do you hold it against early pressure (specifically vs zerg)? In TvT, how do you play against tank-viking? What's your favorite unit in SC2? I like to go with hellions and marines + thors, it's my favorite composition. I sometimes go thor marauder hellion viking, not as viable but it really messes with their heads. I greatly enjoy tank - viking, I add marines and I have a really solid play as it, I never lose when someone differs as I am well practiced. I try to confuse the player with multiple battles as multi tasking is a strong suit of mine. My favorite unit is the mutalisk. About the hellion/rine/thor; how... are you supposed to survive the blings? Harass lings early on if they don't go roaches, Move the marines behind the hor when the lings / banelings arrive and the hellions up front, if he only has lings / blings / muta you can move the hellions behind too, it's a mow down. Can you upload a replay doing that? I just have a hard time imagining it :p
I will upload replays when I have access to my other computer that I use to play on. At this moment I don't.
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On September 14 2010 04:24 Papajan wrote:
How do you deal with good muta harass? It seems like marines just get outrun (unless stimmed) and I slowly lose one building or some workers here and there. Turrets don't really seems like an option if it's a 5 muta harass.
When walling off vs zerg, how do you deal with the problem of needing different sorts of walls vs early pool and vs banelings? If you're in a bad starting position, baneling-proof walls prevent tech labs.
How do you maintain map vision/control vs zerg? Any suggestions at breaking out of being contained to 1 base? It seems like a lot of zerg players either have mutas, which prevent me from expanding, or else have a ground force outside my main.
2 turrets spread out behind mineral line, 1 in front of CC , 1 in unit production facility + a thor. marines to snipe out muta's if they go near thor.
They don't prevent my tech labs as I place more buildings behind it, sometimes depo's, sometimes other stuff.
Try to get a bunker up outside your base, a siege tank is good on occasion. If they have enough to keep you out of your natural they are sacrificing economy.
Hellion running through the map, taking towers constantly. scanning sometimes in key locations. small drops.
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On September 14 2010 04:15 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 04:08 YoiChiBow wrote:
at high level diamond early TvT seems to be all about the early marine/hellion drop or pushes. wat build do you think is the most solid?
I tend to get a reactor on my barracks and get hellions but i seem to lose or get contained by a quick/tank + medivac push
is the marine/tank/medivac a more solid opening?
thanks I never really get hellions in TvT, my build I just form a concave at my ramp and it shuts down any aggresive hellion play. I think 1-1-1 is most solid with marines, tanks, raven, vikings. It is if you have air control, but if you don't you need vikings.
im assuming that if u play at the 1500 level u see marine drops alot in TvT.
do you think tank viking is still a solid build? it seems too defense oriented vs the new style of marine hellion drops. You really cant leave until ur sure these drops wont own ur mineral line.
Do you just sit back and turtle till u have ur expo up vs this style?
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Yosho, I <3 you. That's all. Wait, just kidding, what build would you do for a ghost drop that makes zerg cry inside.
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Nice info Yosho, it was fun watching you play against Trump the other day.
BTW, You're not from Vegas are you? Just curious since it's part of your user name.
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On September 14 2010 04:28 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 04:24 Papajan wrote:
How do you deal with good muta harass? It seems like marines just get outrun (unless stimmed) and I slowly lose one building or some workers here and there. Turrets don't really seems like an option if it's a 5 muta harass.
When walling off vs zerg, how do you deal with the problem of needing different sorts of walls vs early pool and vs banelings? If you're in a bad starting position, baneling-proof walls prevent tech labs.
How do you maintain map vision/control vs zerg? Any suggestions at breaking out of being contained to 1 base? It seems like a lot of zerg players either have mutas, which prevent me from expanding, or else have a ground force outside my main. 2 turrets spread out behind mineral line, 1 in front of CC , 1 in unit production facility + a thor. marines to snipe out muta's if they go near thor. They don't prevent my tech labs as I place more buildings behind it, sometimes depo's, sometimes other stuff. Try to get a bunker up outside your base, a siege tank is good on occasion. If they have enough to keep you out of your natural they are sacrificing economy. Hellion running through the map, taking towers constantly. scanning sometimes in key locations. small drops.
Usually I do two turrets, but if they're spread enough to cover both sides of the mineral line, then the 5 mutas kill the turrets one at a time. When the marines or thor arrive, they simply fly away and skirt the base enough to scout the army, then poke in somewhere unprotected until they have to move again.
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damnit I want a protoss Q&A
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On September 14 2010 03:00 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 02:20 Floophead_III wrote:
How do you live with yourself knowing that every time you make a reaper a puppy is decapitated? I rarely ever make reapers, sometimes I practice the strat, sometimes I do it late in the game. However I rarely, EVER make reapers.
Good because I'd hate to think the blood of millions of innocent puppies is on your hands.
On a more serious note:
How do you feel about TvP in general at that point level? I'm still playing mostly 1200ish players and I find PvT to be generally pretty easy, especially if it's not a close rush distance. I just expand, get HTs if bio or robo/stargate if not (with the exception of mass banshee where HTs are still pretty sweet). It's just hold off the aggression until tech kicks in then collect a free win 90% of the time.
Everyone does a 1 base allin vs the 1 gate FE which is my standard opener. What do you do vs that strategy? What do other terrans at that level do?
Lastly and most importantly: Do you think voidrays are broken? It's so easy to switch to them midgame/lategame, get speed, and run into their main with 8 voidrays and just end the game cause you can shut down their starports and wipe out vikings super fast due to already being charged.
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Updated with a replay pack
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On September 14 2010 04:33 YoiChiBow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 04:15 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 04:08 YoiChiBow wrote:
at high level diamond early TvT seems to be all about the early marine/hellion drop or pushes. wat build do you think is the most solid?
I tend to get a reactor on my barracks and get hellions but i seem to lose or get contained by a quick/tank + medivac push
is the marine/tank/medivac a more solid opening?
thanks I never really get hellions in TvT, my build I just form a concave at my ramp and it shuts down any aggresive hellion play. I think 1-1-1 is most solid with marines, tanks, raven, vikings. It is if you have air control, but if you don't you need vikings. im assuming that if u play at the 1500 level u see marine drops alot in TvT. do you think tank viking is still a solid build? it seems too defense oriented vs the new style of marine hellion drops. You really cant leave until ur sure these drops wont own ur mineral line. Do you just sit back and turtle till u have ur expo up vs this style?
No I am very aggresive and I use marines often myself. If they try to drop me I push on their line a little and I always keep scouts in the area to spot them, or units in my base to stop them.
I am a very aggressive terran player.
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On September 14 2010 04:36 Crazypyro1 wrote:
Yosho, I <3 you. That's all. Wait, just kidding, what build would you do for a ghost drop that makes zerg cry inside.
If it's a ghost rush, 1 gate into bunker to ghost tech. Other then that a normal bio ball build with ghosts and 3-4 hellions. Medivacs eventually to incorporate drops or just hellion drop them at the start into expo then go ghost play.
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On September 14 2010 04:36 moonkei wrote:
Nice info Yosho, it was fun watching you play against Trump the other day.
BTW, You're not from Vegas are you? Just curious since it's part of your user name.
My beta name was Vega, beta 2 it was vegasminion, now it's Yosho.
Thanks! I enjoy playing vs trump, cool guy. Doesn't talk much lately though.
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On September 14 2010 04:44 Papajan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 04:28 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 04:24 Papajan wrote:
How do you deal with good muta harass? It seems like marines just get outrun (unless stimmed) and I slowly lose one building or some workers here and there. Turrets don't really seems like an option if it's a 5 muta harass.
When walling off vs zerg, how do you deal with the problem of needing different sorts of walls vs early pool and vs banelings? If you're in a bad starting position, baneling-proof walls prevent tech labs.
How do you maintain map vision/control vs zerg? Any suggestions at breaking out of being contained to 1 base? It seems like a lot of zerg players either have mutas, which prevent me from expanding, or else have a ground force outside my main. 2 turrets spread out behind mineral line, 1 in front of CC , 1 in unit production facility + a thor. marines to snipe out muta's if they go near thor. They don't prevent my tech labs as I place more buildings behind it, sometimes depo's, sometimes other stuff. Try to get a bunker up outside your base, a siege tank is good on occasion. If they have enough to keep you out of your natural they are sacrificing economy. Hellion running through the map, taking towers constantly. scanning sometimes in key locations. small drops. Usually I do two turrets, but if they're spread enough to cover both sides of the mineral line, then the 5 mutas kill the turrets one at a time. When the marines or thor arrive, they simply fly away and skirt the base enough to scout the army, then poke in somewhere unprotected until they have to move again.
Cut off the army where you think they will escape too as well. and if they spend time taking down a turret, repair. They are still taking damage. 1 turret for 1 muta is worth it.
You also lose more money from muta's harrasing your mineral line without that turret.
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Updated with a replay pack
• The file you are trying to access is temporarily unavailable.
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On September 14 2010 04:51 Jayrod wrote:
damnit I want a protoss Q&A
I'll give you 1 question since my protoss is nearly even.
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On September 14 2010 05:03 Floophead_III wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 03:00 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 02:20 Floophead_III wrote:
How do you live with yourself knowing that every time you make a reaper a puppy is decapitated? I rarely ever make reapers, sometimes I practice the strat, sometimes I do it late in the game. However I rarely, EVER make reapers. Good because I'd hate to think the blood of millions of innocent puppies is on your hands. On a more serious note: How do you feel about TvP in general at that point level? I'm still playing mostly 1200ish players and I find PvT to be generally pretty easy, especially if it's not a close rush distance. I just expand, get HTs if bio or robo/stargate if not (with the exception of mass banshee where HTs are still pretty sweet). It's just hold off the aggression until tech kicks in then collect a free win 90% of the time. Everyone does a 1 base allin vs the 1 gate FE which is my standard opener. What do you do vs that strategy? What do other terrans at that level do? Lastly and most importantly: Do you think voidrays are broken? It's so easy to switch to them midgame/lategame, get speed, and run into their main with 8 voidrays and just end the game cause you can shut down their starports and wipe out vikings super fast due to already being charged.
I enjoy PvT, collasai are strong but easy to counter. High templars are good but a great ghost micro play is fun as well. It comes down to the players controls.
1 base all in is ok however I sometimes try to match expo's or a drop. It depends on position, units, where his army is, what money I have or if i'm about to push anyway.
Voidrays are strong on charge, I do feel like their charge should only last so long. Like a railgun that has to cool down. However I don't think it's broken. You can usually scout out void rays though and I haven't lost by that.( I have won doing that as protoss ).
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On September 14 2010 05:19 Jaal wrote:• The file you are trying to access is temporarily unavailable.
One moment.
Edit: Works for me just fine. Try again?
[url blocked]
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On September 14 2010 02:15 BlasiuS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 02:11 Bair wrote:On September 14 2010 02:09 truckerdaves wrote:On September 14 2010 01:56 SocialFilth wrote:
ummmm ya..... you shouldnt be aloud to make posts You shouldn't be allowed to criticize others. yeah you're just trying to be clever here, but he actually has a valid criticism. That post is completely unacceptable.
Play nice ^^
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On September 14 2010 05:17 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 04:36 moonkei wrote:
Nice info Yosho, it was fun watching you play against Trump the other day.
BTW, You're not from Vegas are you? Just curious since it's part of your user name. My beta name was Vega, beta 2 it was vegasminion, now it's Yosho. Thanks! I enjoy playing vs trump, cool guy. Doesn't talk much lately though.
Oh, I owe you an explanation for this
I'm sockfolding.
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On September 14 2010 05:41 Trump wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 05:17 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 04:36 moonkei wrote:
Nice info Yosho, it was fun watching you play against Trump the other day.
BTW, You're not from Vegas are you? Just curious since it's part of your user name. My beta name was Vega, beta 2 it was vegasminion, now it's Yosho. Thanks! I enjoy playing vs trump, cool guy. Doesn't talk much lately though. Oh, I owe you an explanation for this I'm sockfolding.
You must have bigfoot as a guest or lots of feet you mutant <3
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What do you think about the recent - 3-1-2 and 2-1-1 BO vs toss ? I think that 3-1-2 is kinda all in but if it's executed nicely it's just devastating . 2-1-1 is similiar to morrow's bo which is very good . What is your favorite BO for countering 1 gate FE by toss ?
Which opening do you prefer against zerg in maps with 4 positions like LT , metalopolis , delta and etc ?
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On September 14 2010 05:47 JaddF wrote:
What do you think about the recent - 3-1-2 and 2-1-1 BO vs toss ? I think that 3-1-2 is kinda all in but if it's executed nicely it's just devastating . 2-1-1 is similiar to morrow's bo which is very good . What is your favorite BO for countering 1 gate FE by toss ?
Which opening do you prefer against zerg in maps with 4 positions like LT , metalopolis , delta and etc ?
I think that in TvP you need a second base fast, like they do. All in simply is strong but it is a risk. Both races need more tech to really counter each other and very hard to afford on 1 base.
I prefer some build that leads into an expansion, however those builds are strong and worthy of play. In order to counter FE I like to FE or harass with some sort of drop.
I prefer hellion openings but I am also known for going pure viking mass.
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Hello Yosho,
I am currently a rank 7 Platinum Random player. I have some questions about your random play.
First off, how do you capitilize on the fact that you're random? I've been playing with not sending an early scout to force them to scout and have those extra 40 mins a minute. With Platinum players, I find everyone always does some sort of early rush. If I delay my scout, I usually can catch it fast enough and my extra worker in the early stages helps with that. Sometimes it also fails horribly. How do you deal with the early extra info of race?
Secondly, I never played beta, or any other RTS before. I read TL everyday and watch livestreams when I'm eating or doing somethin else on my computer, and it has taught me alot. I don't really have any build orders either. I have a standard opening that I do and then just transition based on my opponents play.
I've found that most players at my level don't know positioning or how to micro. I let them attack me, then I expand. I'm horrible at multi tasking, but it gets better with the game.
My question is, what would be time spent more wisely? Practicing specific matchups, practicing micro, practicing macro while microing, or just playing games and getting games under my belt while watching replays?
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On September 14 2010 05:57 KhrisKruel wrote:
Hello Yosho,
I am currently a rank 7 Platinum Random player. I have some questions about your random play.
First off, how do you capitilize on the fact that you're random? I've been playing with not sending an early scout to force them to scout and have those extra 40 mins a minute. With Platinum players, I find everyone always does some sort of early rush. If I delay my scout, I usually can catch it fast enough and my extra worker in the early stages helps with that. Sometimes it also fails horribly. How do you deal with the early extra info of race?
Secondly, I never played beta, or any other RTS before. I read TL everyday and watch livestreams when I'm eating or doing somethin else on my computer, and it has taught me alot. I don't really have any build orders either. I have a standard opening that I do and then just transition based on my opponents play.
I've found that most players at my level don't know positioning or how to micro. I let them attack me, then I expand. I'm horrible at multi tasking, but it gets better with the game.
My question is, what would be time spent more wisely? Practicing specific matchups, practicing micro, practicing macro while microing, or just playing games and getting games under my belt while watching replays?
I would practice micro and macro the most, those are universal between every race. Figuring out when to expand as well. THEN i would practice build orders.
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On September 14 2010 02:11 Bair wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 02:09 truckerdaves wrote:On September 14 2010 01:56 SocialFilth wrote:
ummmm ya..... you shouldnt be aloud to make posts You shouldn't be allowed to criticize others.
Neither should you.
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On September 14 2010 05:59 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 05:57 KhrisKruel wrote:
Hello Yosho,
I am currently a rank 7 Platinum Random player. I have some questions about your random play.
First off, how do you capitilize on the fact that you're random? I've been playing with not sending an early scout to force them to scout and have those extra 40 mins a minute. With Platinum players, I find everyone always does some sort of early rush. If I delay my scout, I usually can catch it fast enough and my extra worker in the early stages helps with that. Sometimes it also fails horribly. How do you deal with the early extra info of race?
Secondly, I never played beta, or any other RTS before. I read TL everyday and watch livestreams when I'm eating or doing somethin else on my computer, and it has taught me alot. I don't really have any build orders either. I have a standard opening that I do and then just transition based on my opponents play.
I've found that most players at my level don't know positioning or how to micro. I let them attack me, then I expand. I'm horrible at multi tasking, but it gets better with the game.
My question is, what would be time spent more wisely? Practicing specific matchups, practicing micro, practicing macro while microing, or just playing games and getting games under my belt while watching replays? I would practice micro and macro the most, those are universal between every race. Figuring out when to expand as well. THEN i would practice build orders.
could you answer that part too please
First off, how do you capitilize on the fact that you're random? I've been playing with not sending an early scout to force them to scout and have those extra 40 mins a minute. With Platinum players, I find everyone always does some sort of early rush. If I delay my scout, I usually can catch it fast enough and my extra worker in the early stages helps with that. Sometimes it also fails horribly. How do you deal with the early extra info of race?
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On September 14 2010 06:01 WarChimp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 02:11 Bair wrote:On September 14 2010 02:09 truckerdaves wrote:On September 14 2010 01:56 SocialFilth wrote:
ummmm ya..... you shouldnt be aloud to make posts You shouldn't be allowed to criticize others. Neither should you.
I don't get this post. The one it's quoting is just referring to the obvious mistake in the one above that, saying that if youre going to criticize someone, you should at least make sure you're at least somewhat faultless.
However your post is just criticizing someone for criticizing which seems hypocritical to me.
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how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air)
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On September 14 2010 06:09 CHOChi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 05:59 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 05:57 KhrisKruel wrote:
Hello Yosho,
I am currently a rank 7 Platinum Random player. I have some questions about your random play.
First off, how do you capitilize on the fact that you're random? I've been playing with not sending an early scout to force them to scout and have those extra 40 mins a minute. With Platinum players, I find everyone always does some sort of early rush. If I delay my scout, I usually can catch it fast enough and my extra worker in the early stages helps with that. Sometimes it also fails horribly. How do you deal with the early extra info of race?
Secondly, I never played beta, or any other RTS before. I read TL everyday and watch livestreams when I'm eating or doing somethin else on my computer, and it has taught me alot. I don't really have any build orders either. I have a standard opening that I do and then just transition based on my opponents play.
I've found that most players at my level don't know positioning or how to micro. I let them attack me, then I expand. I'm horrible at multi tasking, but it gets better with the game.
My question is, what would be time spent more wisely? Practicing specific matchups, practicing micro, practicing macro while microing, or just playing games and getting games under my belt while watching replays? I would practice micro and macro the most, those are universal between every race. Figuring out when to expand as well. THEN i would practice build orders. could you answer that part too please Show nested quote +First off, how do you capitilize on the fact that you're random? I've been playing with not sending an early scout to force them to scout and have those extra 40 mins a minute. With Platinum players, I find everyone always does some sort of early rush. If I delay my scout, I usually can catch it fast enough and my extra worker in the early stages helps with that. Sometimes it also fails horribly. How do you deal with the early extra info of race?
My apologies, I normally didn't scout and expected cheese or a normal build. I simply went to counter a normal build or cheesed myself. However on occasion I went a normal build to practice micro and macro. For example, against toss. Ling into baneling, they had to wall off.
or against terran maybe go for a fast 9 zealot into stalkers.
or 2 gate on a 2 player map
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Hey yosho thanks for doing this thread. I'm 1k diamond and I have the most trouble, by far, with P early to mid game. What are your goals early to mid game against P? Are there certain things you always try to do when engaging in fights, or macroing?
When you review your losses against P in games less than 15minutes what are some conclusions you normally draw? Oh, I needed to do this when I engaged, or Oh, I should have done this as I was moving out macrowise.
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Hello there I'm a gold level terran player and have trouble with zerg specifically when they mass muta's what's the best counter for them? Both in the mid and late game (if there is a difference i'm not sure) thanks
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Hey Yosho thanks a lot for the Q&A thread.
Lately I have seen some TvP games where the T does an interesting push. Open with the usual rax into 2gases into factory, second rax with tech lab, armory. The raxes are constantly pumping marines and a tech lab is used to get stim asap. You push with a bunch of marines with stim and a thor (with some scvs for repair if you want to). It seems to be pretty potent esp. if toss goes 1gate into robo for obs.
Do you feel this is a strong opening against Toss that can be used to get an expansion and transition into something like bio with thor banshee? Also are there any scenarior where you feel this push could fail hard? I guess 4 warp gate could be one but still that thor+stim marine combo focuses down zealots so quickly and then its a simple cleanup.
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On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air)
if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily.
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On September 14 2010 06:30 Sitizen wrote:
Hey yosho thanks for doing this thread. I'm 1k diamond and I have the most trouble, by far, with P early to mid game. What are your goals early to mid game against P? Are there certain things you always try to do when engaging in fights, or macroing?
When you review your losses against P in games less than 15minutes what are some conclusions you normally draw? Oh, I needed to do this when I engaged, or Oh, I should have done this as I was moving out macrowise.
My thoughts are prepare for the inevitable change to collasai or storm by expanding and getting the proper tech while out micro'ing in the current battle. if it's already out use delay tactics to get my tech up.
Most losses I have are from 4 gate all in while I try to fast expand against practice partners. other then that it's when they sneak a gold expo, however I usually win.
my most needed skill is to scout more and that is usually what lets me die is not scouting enough.
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On September 14 2010 06:42 JMC4 wrote:
Hello there I'm a gold level terran player and have trouble with zerg specifically when they mass muta's what's the best counter for them? Both in the mid and late game (if there is a difference i'm not sure) thanks
just muta's? thor, raven, marine. Thor = splash, Marine stops magic box, raven; point defense drone to stop a lot of muta damage.
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On September 14 2010 06:45 babyToSS wrote:
Hey Yosho thanks a lot for the Q&A thread.
Lately I have seen some TvP games where the T does an interesting push. Open with the usual rax into 2gases into factory, second rax with tech lab, armory. The raxes are constantly pumping marines and a tech lab is used to get stim asap. You push with a bunch of marines with stim and a thor (with some scvs for repair if you want to). It seems to be pretty potent esp. if toss goes 1gate into robo for obs.
Do you feel this is a strong opening against Toss that can be used to get an expansion and transition into something like bio with thor banshee? Also are there any scenarior where you feel this push could fail hard? I guess 4 warp gate could be one but still that thor+stim marine combo focuses down zealots so quickly and then its a simple cleanup.
The thor is usually proxied into this, it's kind of all in if you proxy it. however if you don't you can transition to bio very easily with a few tanks and siege up to take your expo.
This push if stopped could cost you the game ( i did one it's in the replay pack ). thor banshee still loses to storm and feedback a proper unit mix maybe add hellions for the mineral dump with marines?
4 gate can lose to this if timed fast, the strongest versus this I believe is 1 gate robo into another gate. cut off army at the ramp when you're the toss, be careful if you're terran.
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On September 14 2010 06:10 blagoonga123 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 06:01 WarChimp wrote:On September 14 2010 02:11 Bair wrote:On September 14 2010 02:09 truckerdaves wrote:On September 14 2010 01:56 SocialFilth wrote:
ummmm ya..... you shouldnt be aloud to make posts You shouldn't be allowed to criticize others. Neither should you. I don't get this post. The one it's quoting is just referring to the obvious mistake in the one above that, saying that if youre going to criticize someone, you should at least make sure you're at least somewhat faultless. However your post is just criticizing someone for criticizing which seems hypocritical to me.
Stop bumping this part of the thread please ty.
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Please give feedback on the replays, much appreciated.
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Hey, I need some advice on beating you.
Gold league zerg player here looking on how exactly I get the edge up on you early game. I scouted, always had vision of a terran on Desert Oasis, and baneling busted the double depoit doors of this terran, made his food go red, made it to his mineral line before killing me, and was on my way to send hopefully a gamewinning round of lets say 22 lings into his base when he takes 3 medivacs, drop a handful of marines, and wins.
I've gone early roach only to find the players marauders will destroy me and putting zerglings in the mix with the roaches almost feel useless because they reach critical mass incredibly easy to marines, especially at a choke.
I tried 1 base muta but if he ever scanned and found a spire he'd simply turret away, not to mention large soldier armies pound for pound wreck mutalisks.
I tried roach hydra with some success; however, I am finding more often than not the game ends before I have enough hydras to kill his marauders and successfully avoid his tanks.
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On September 14 2010 07:36 Jeffbelittle wrote:
Hey, I need some advice on beating you.
Gold league zerg player here looking on how exactly I get the edge up on you early game. I scouted, always had vision of a terran on Desert Oasis, and baneling busted the double depoit doors of this terran, made his food go red, made it to his mineral line before killing me, and was on my way to send hopefully a gamewinning round of lets say 22 lings into his base when he takes 3 medivacs, drop a handful of marines, and wins.
I've gone early roach only to find the players marauders will destroy me and putting zerglings in the mix with the roaches almost feel useless because they reach critical mass incredibly easy to marines, especially at a choke.
I tried 1 base muta but if he ever scanned and found a spire he'd simply turret away, not to mention large soldier armies pound for pound wreck mutalisks.
I tried roach hydra with some success; however, I am finding more often than not the game ends before I have enough hydras to kill his marauders and successfully avoid his tanks.
I am giving advice on how to play terran but don't use baneling busts unless you can break him and you're 100% sure. try a nydus canal into the back of his base with queens(multiple) and lings / banelings?
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On September 14 2010 04:02 waffling1 wrote:
how did u go about getting accustomed to using the 8-0 hotkeys?
Practice practice just like micro macro and game sense ^^
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I see thank you, I next to never use hunter seeker, I could see it maybe work with vikings on vikings or a mass roach army.
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Hi Yosho,
I am a Platinum Toss player switching over to Terran. I have two questions.
1. If you could recommend only one build for a new player to use in every match up, which one would it be? I want to get the mechanics of Terran down first before branching out into one build per matchup.
2. Once I get those mechanics down, what build would you recommend for each specific matchup?
Also if you could link/list the builds, that'd be awesome. Thanks!
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On September 14 2010 09:41 SupremeJD wrote:
Hi Yosho,
I am a Platinum Toss player switching over to Terran. I have two questions.
1. If you could recommend only one build for a new player to use in every match up, which one would it be? I want to get the mechanics of Terran down first before branching out into one build per matchup.
2. Once I get those mechanics down, what build would you recommend for each specific matchup?
Also if you could link/list the builds, that'd be awesome. Thanks!
1- the 1-1-1 build, demonstrated in my replay pack.
2. 1-1-1 tvt, 2 barrack into ghost tvp, hellion harass into mech tvz. all shown in my replay pack.
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On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily.
who the hell gives you time to get storm?
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On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm?
It happens? ^^ Who can't produce units, expo, mule, micro, at the same time?! anyone under 1,000 diamond usually. it happens ^^
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On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm?
Read the quoted portion again. He was being a smart ass.
On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air)
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On September 14 2010 09:49 selboN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm? Read the quoted portion again. He was being a smart ass. Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air)
aaaah
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What do you do against terran
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On September 14 2010 10:36 Fenarth wrote:
What do you do against terran
complain on online threads while waiting for blizz to fix and or theory craft then try them but fail.
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On September 14 2010 10:36 Fenarth wrote:
What do you do against terran
i do the 1-1-1 build, marines tanks vikings and 1 raven.
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On September 14 2010 10:44 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:complain on online threads while waiting for blizz to fix and or theory craft then try them but fail.
Terran is fine.
I don't do balance discussions really.
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I'm an inexperienced/nooby player (diamond) so I will post a few questions here to avoid making a new thread.
I thought MMMG was the way to go versus 4 gate or any 1 basing Protoss who delays their 2nd gas. I was beginning to feel that Protoss should pretty much always FE with that quick observer as it seems so flexible.
Here are 2 questions I have had recently
1•Which build/gameplan do you feel is the most successful versus a 4 Gate if scouted soon enough? Does it differ from your plan versus 3 Gate Robo?
2•How do you feel about FE Protoss and which response(s) do you feel are worthwhile if it is scouted soon enough?
Thank you very much Yosho for making this thread
(if some of this post seems awkward it's because I had a longer version of this post here but it was never responded to, edited it for this thread)
side question if you have time
3•Is there any downside to going fast cloaked banshee vs a Terran opponent who opens with more than 1 rax? I feel if I scout bio play I can go banshee and pretty much win every time.
I think you can make banshees work vs 1/1/1 builds but in my opinion there are better options. My question is revolving around if your opponent is going bio and you go banshees, can he do anything? Anything I should look out for? If I make sure to keep scouting to make sure he didn't tech switch wouldn't I be 99% fine?
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On September 14 2010 11:50 VERMM wrote:
I'm an inexperienced/nooby player (diamond) so I will post a few questions here to avoid making a new thread.
I thought MMMG was the way to go versus 4 gate or any 1 basing Protoss who delays their 2nd gas. I was beginning to feel that Protoss should pretty much always FE with that quick observer as it seems so flexible.
Here are 2 questions I have had recently
1•Which build/gameplan do you feel is the most successful versus a 4 Gate if scouted soon enough? Does it differ from your plan versus 3 Gate Robo?
2•How do you feel about FE Protoss and which response(s) do you feel are worthwhile if it is scouted soon enough?
Thank you very much Yosho for making this thread
(if some of this post seems awkward it's because I had a longer version of this post here but it was never responded to, edited it for this thread)
side question if you have time
3•Is there any downside to going fast cloaked banshee vs a Terran opponent who opens with more than 1 rax? I feel if I scout bio play I can go banshee and pretty much win every time.
I think you can make banshees work vs 1/1/1 builds but in my opinion there are better options. My question is revolving around if your opponent is going bio and you go banshees, can he do anything? Anything I should look out for? If I make sure to keep scouting to make sure he didn't tech switch wouldn't I be 99% fine?
1- I think the same build would work alright if you throw down a 2nd bunker at the start. mmmg - a very good strat
2- I do feel that if you can get away with fast expanding, you should, once it's up you have an instant advantage. (after it's paid for itself)
3- Yes, higher level players do account for that and place great missile turret areas. It is possible to win with PURE bio in the early game. However the more tanks the enemy has the less likely you can be effective.
Marines are great against banshee's if he has a way to catch them. Missile turrets provide very far range vision for detection. I would be weary of a raven to assist them. No you will not be 99% fine. Players who see it coming will save up scan and stim move under your banshee's. Then you're dead.
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Have you tried 10Rax -> 10 Ref -> SCV -> Orbital + Depot. I think that's a little better and smoother than the 9Rax. The fast Orbital/Early mule makes up for the SCV you miss.
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On September 14 2010 12:21 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Have you tried 10Rax -> 10 Ref -> SCV -> Orbital + Depot. I think that's a little better and smoother than the 9Rax. The fast Orbital/Early mule makes up for the SCV you miss.
I can't say I have, maybe.
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On September 14 2010 12:07 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 11:50 VERMM wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'm an inexperienced/nooby player (diamond) so I will post a few questions here to avoid making a new thread.
I thought MMMG was the way to go versus 4 gate or any 1 basing Protoss who delays their 2nd gas. I was beginning to feel that Protoss should pretty much always FE with that quick observer as it seems so flexible.
Here are 2 questions I have had recently
1•Which build/gameplan do you feel is the most successful versus a 4 Gate if scouted soon enough? Does it differ from your plan versus 3 Gate Robo?
2•How do you feel about FE Protoss and which response(s) do you feel are worthwhile if it is scouted soon enough?
Thank you very much Yosho for making this thread
(if some of this post seems awkward it's because I had a longer version of this post here but it was never responded to, edited it for this thread)
side question if you have time
3•Is there any downside to going fast cloaked banshee vs a Terran opponent who opens with more than 1 rax? I feel if I scout bio play I can go banshee and pretty much win every time.
I think you can make banshees work vs 1/1/1 builds but in my opinion there are better options. My question is revolving around if your opponent is going bio and you go banshees, can he do anything? Anything I should look out for? If I make sure to keep scouting to make sure he didn't tech switch wouldn't I be 99% fine? 1- I think the same build would work alright if you throw down a 2nd bunker at the start. mmmg - a very good strat 2- I do feel that if you can get away with fast expanding, you should, once it's up you have an instant advantage. (after it's paid for itself) 3- Yes, higher level players do account for that and place great missile turret areas. It is possible to win with PURE bio in the early game. However the more tanks the enemy has the less likely you can be effective. Marines are great against banshee's if he has a way to catch them. Missile turrets provide very far range vision for detection. I would be weary of a raven to assist them. No you will not be 99% fine. Players who see it coming will save up scan and stim move under your banshee's. Then you're dead.
1. ok sounds good, I will work on MMMG
2. I'm not sure if this was clear sorry, I meant when you are Terran verses a Protoss who fast expands. As the PvT FE build seems very viable vs anything really. If you did know what I was asking then I think I would agree with you and just fast expand myself but I feel kind of behind, if I respond to seeing him FEing and I FE, he has his expo up first and I would have to catch up a bit.
Maybe I should just FE if he has a delayed gateway? It seems whenever someone delays their gateway to 13 or 14 they are going to FE.
3. thank you very much, I felt like I was missing something. But what I didn't say was I am not relying on the banshee itself. I use the banshee to set him behind by making him do exactly what you said, spend money on earlier ebay + turrets, maybe even get a raven. Then if he wants to expand he has to build turrets there too, and has to put effort into making sure each hole is covered otherwise I can poke in to harass.
Then for battles he must use scans which sets him back even more. Even 1-2 banshee can force him to scan while I have the rest of my army.
I think the combination of him being forced to build the ebay and turrets while having to use scans in every battle without a raven gives me a huge advantage versus bio play. Especially since their raven is delayed. I felt that with all that money I saved on not having to do what he has to do I pretty much win if I'm equally skilled as I straight up have more resources.
What are your thoughts on the more specific sides of banshee open vs bio open? You are right in that it is not an auto-win but could you at least say it's the way I should go vs bio? I think I definitely gain an advantage from it. And that's even with ignoring the psychological aspect of being worried about banshees being anywhere at any time.
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On September 14 2010 12:34 VERMM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 12:07 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 11:50 VERMM wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'm an inexperienced/nooby player (diamond) so I will post a few questions here to avoid making a new thread.
I thought MMMG was the way to go versus 4 gate or any 1 basing Protoss who delays their 2nd gas. I was beginning to feel that Protoss should pretty much always FE with that quick observer as it seems so flexible.
Here are 2 questions I have had recently
1•Which build/gameplan do you feel is the most successful versus a 4 Gate if scouted soon enough? Does it differ from your plan versus 3 Gate Robo?
2•How do you feel about FE Protoss and which response(s) do you feel are worthwhile if it is scouted soon enough?
Thank you very much Yosho for making this thread
(if some of this post seems awkward it's because I had a longer version of this post here but it was never responded to, edited it for this thread)
side question if you have time
3•Is there any downside to going fast cloaked banshee vs a Terran opponent who opens with more than 1 rax? I feel if I scout bio play I can go banshee and pretty much win every time.
I think you can make banshees work vs 1/1/1 builds but in my opinion there are better options. My question is revolving around if your opponent is going bio and you go banshees, can he do anything? Anything I should look out for? If I make sure to keep scouting to make sure he didn't tech switch wouldn't I be 99% fine? 1- I think the same build would work alright if you throw down a 2nd bunker at the start. mmmg - a very good strat 2- I do feel that if you can get away with fast expanding, you should, once it's up you have an instant advantage. (after it's paid for itself) 3- Yes, higher level players do account for that and place great missile turret areas. It is possible to win with PURE bio in the early game. However the more tanks the enemy has the less likely you can be effective. Marines are great against banshee's if he has a way to catch them. Missile turrets provide very far range vision for detection. I would be weary of a raven to assist them. No you will not be 99% fine. Players who see it coming will save up scan and stim move under your banshee's. Then you're dead. 1. ok sounds good, I will work on MMMG 2. I'm not sure if this was clear sorry, I meant when you are Terran verses a Protoss who fast expands. As the PvT FE build seems very viable vs anything really. If you did know what I was asking then I think I would agree with you and just fast expand myself but I feel kind of behind, if I respond to seeing him FEing and I FE, he has his expo up first and I would have to catch up a bit. Maybe I should just FE if he has a delayed gateway? It seems whenever someone delays their gateway to 13 or 14 they are going to FE. 3. thank you very much, I felt like I was missing something. But what I didn't say was I am not relying on the banshee itself. I use the banshee to set him behind by making him do exactly what you said, spend money on earlier ebay + turrets, maybe even get a raven. Then if he wants to expand he has to build turrets there too, and has to put effort into making sure each hole is covered otherwise I can poke in to harass. Then for battles he must use scans which sets him back even more. Even 1-2 banshee can force him to scan while I have the rest of my army. I think the combination of him being forced to build the ebay and turrets while having to use scans in every battle without a raven gives me a huge advantage versus bio play. Especially since their raven is delayed. I felt that with all that money I saved on not having to do what he has to do I pretty much win if I'm equally skilled as I straight up have more resources. What are your thoughts on the more specific sides of banshee open vs bio open? You are right in that it is not an auto-win but could you at least say it's the way I should go vs bio? I think I definitely gain an advantage from it. And that's even with ignoring the psychological aspect of being worried about banshees being anywhere at any time.
delayed gateway can also mean hidden tech, dangerous.
picture terran player who has great turret placement, then instead of a raven he drops in your main with 2 medivacs of marine. 1 scan and you have to attack or you lose all your scvs and your main. It's very risky.
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I've played 2 games vs yosho
1st game he went 7rax reaper (tvt)
2nd game he went bbs
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is awesome32274 Posts
To everyone making off-topic posts in this thread or imba jokes, please avoid them.
Thank you.
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On September 14 2010 12:40 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 12:34 VERMM wrote:On September 14 2010 12:07 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 11:50 VERMM wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'm an inexperienced/nooby player (diamond) so I will post a few questions here to avoid making a new thread.
I thought MMMG was the way to go versus 4 gate or any 1 basing Protoss who delays their 2nd gas. I was beginning to feel that Protoss should pretty much always FE with that quick observer as it seems so flexible.
Here are 2 questions I have had recently
1•Which build/gameplan do you feel is the most successful versus a 4 Gate if scouted soon enough? Does it differ from your plan versus 3 Gate Robo?
2•How do you feel about FE Protoss and which response(s) do you feel are worthwhile if it is scouted soon enough?
Thank you very much Yosho for making this thread
(if some of this post seems awkward it's because I had a longer version of this post here but it was never responded to, edited it for this thread)
side question if you have time
3•Is there any downside to going fast cloaked banshee vs a Terran opponent who opens with more than 1 rax? I feel if I scout bio play I can go banshee and pretty much win every time.
I think you can make banshees work vs 1/1/1 builds but in my opinion there are better options. My question is revolving around if your opponent is going bio and you go banshees, can he do anything? Anything I should look out for? If I make sure to keep scouting to make sure he didn't tech switch wouldn't I be 99% fine? 1- I think the same build would work alright if you throw down a 2nd bunker at the start. mmmg - a very good strat 2- I do feel that if you can get away with fast expanding, you should, once it's up you have an instant advantage. (after it's paid for itself) 3- Yes, higher level players do account for that and place great missile turret areas. It is possible to win with PURE bio in the early game. However the more tanks the enemy has the less likely you can be effective. Marines are great against banshee's if he has a way to catch them. Missile turrets provide very far range vision for detection. I would be weary of a raven to assist them. No you will not be 99% fine. Players who see it coming will save up scan and stim move under your banshee's. Then you're dead. 1. ok sounds good, I will work on MMMG 2. I'm not sure if this was clear sorry, I meant when you are Terran verses a Protoss who fast expands. As the PvT FE build seems very viable vs anything really. If you did know what I was asking then I think I would agree with you and just fast expand myself but I feel kind of behind, if I respond to seeing him FEing and I FE, he has his expo up first and I would have to catch up a bit. Maybe I should just FE if he has a delayed gateway? It seems whenever someone delays their gateway to 13 or 14 they are going to FE. 3. thank you very much, I felt like I was missing something. But what I didn't say was I am not relying on the banshee itself. I use the banshee to set him behind by making him do exactly what you said, spend money on earlier ebay + turrets, maybe even get a raven. Then if he wants to expand he has to build turrets there too, and has to put effort into making sure each hole is covered otherwise I can poke in to harass. Then for battles he must use scans which sets him back even more. Even 1-2 banshee can force him to scan while I have the rest of my army. I think the combination of him being forced to build the ebay and turrets while having to use scans in every battle without a raven gives me a huge advantage versus bio play. Especially since their raven is delayed. I felt that with all that money I saved on not having to do what he has to do I pretty much win if I'm equally skilled as I straight up have more resources. What are your thoughts on the more specific sides of banshee open vs bio open? You are right in that it is not an auto-win but could you at least say it's the way I should go vs bio? I think I definitely gain an advantage from it. And that's even with ignoring the psychological aspect of being worried about banshees being anywhere at any time. delayed gateway can also mean hidden tech, dangerous. picture terran player who has great turret placement, then instead of a raven he drops in your main with 2 medivacs of marine. 1 scan and you have to attack or you lose all your scvs and your main. It's very risky.
@banshee
ah ok thanks man
@delayed gateway
I've never heard of this, now I'm confused. So if their 1st gateway is delayed it can mean FE or hidden tech. But wouldn't me expanding be good versus either of those?
I'm still confused about the hidden tech, why does a delayed gateway help people who want to hide their tech? When you say hidden tech do you mean fast tech that's hidden? or just normally timed tech that is hidden? I'm guessing the former.
If I do expand when I see a delayed gateway and it turns out to be hidden tech won't I be in an alright position anyways? What constitutes hidden tech? Fast immortals or something? If I see they don't expand I think I would put in the effort to find their hidden tech
I said hidden tech a lot
Sorry for the bother
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On September 14 2010 13:35 VERMM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 12:40 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 12:34 VERMM wrote:On September 14 2010 12:07 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 11:50 VERMM wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'm an inexperienced/nooby player (diamond) so I will post a few questions here to avoid making a new thread.
I thought MMMG was the way to go versus 4 gate or any 1 basing Protoss who delays their 2nd gas. I was beginning to feel that Protoss should pretty much always FE with that quick observer as it seems so flexible.
Here are 2 questions I have had recently
1•Which build/gameplan do you feel is the most successful versus a 4 Gate if scouted soon enough? Does it differ from your plan versus 3 Gate Robo?
2•How do you feel about FE Protoss and which response(s) do you feel are worthwhile if it is scouted soon enough?
Thank you very much Yosho for making this thread
(if some of this post seems awkward it's because I had a longer version of this post here but it was never responded to, edited it for this thread)
side question if you have time
3•Is there any downside to going fast cloaked banshee vs a Terran opponent who opens with more than 1 rax? I feel if I scout bio play I can go banshee and pretty much win every time.
I think you can make banshees work vs 1/1/1 builds but in my opinion there are better options. My question is revolving around if your opponent is going bio and you go banshees, can he do anything? Anything I should look out for? If I make sure to keep scouting to make sure he didn't tech switch wouldn't I be 99% fine? 1- I think the same build would work alright if you throw down a 2nd bunker at the start. mmmg - a very good strat 2- I do feel that if you can get away with fast expanding, you should, once it's up you have an instant advantage. (after it's paid for itself) 3- Yes, higher level players do account for that and place great missile turret areas. It is possible to win with PURE bio in the early game. However the more tanks the enemy has the less likely you can be effective. Marines are great against banshee's if he has a way to catch them. Missile turrets provide very far range vision for detection. I would be weary of a raven to assist them. No you will not be 99% fine. Players who see it coming will save up scan and stim move under your banshee's. Then you're dead. 1. ok sounds good, I will work on MMMG 2. I'm not sure if this was clear sorry, I meant when you are Terran verses a Protoss who fast expands. As the PvT FE build seems very viable vs anything really. If you did know what I was asking then I think I would agree with you and just fast expand myself but I feel kind of behind, if I respond to seeing him FEing and I FE, he has his expo up first and I would have to catch up a bit. Maybe I should just FE if he has a delayed gateway? It seems whenever someone delays their gateway to 13 or 14 they are going to FE. 3. thank you very much, I felt like I was missing something. But what I didn't say was I am not relying on the banshee itself. I use the banshee to set him behind by making him do exactly what you said, spend money on earlier ebay + turrets, maybe even get a raven. Then if he wants to expand he has to build turrets there too, and has to put effort into making sure each hole is covered otherwise I can poke in to harass. Then for battles he must use scans which sets him back even more. Even 1-2 banshee can force him to scan while I have the rest of my army. I think the combination of him being forced to build the ebay and turrets while having to use scans in every battle without a raven gives me a huge advantage versus bio play. Especially since their raven is delayed. I felt that with all that money I saved on not having to do what he has to do I pretty much win if I'm equally skilled as I straight up have more resources. What are your thoughts on the more specific sides of banshee open vs bio open? You are right in that it is not an auto-win but could you at least say it's the way I should go vs bio? I think I definitely gain an advantage from it. And that's even with ignoring the psychological aspect of being worried about banshees being anywhere at any time. delayed gateway can also mean hidden tech, dangerous. picture terran player who has great turret placement, then instead of a raven he drops in your main with 2 medivacs of marine. 1 scan and you have to attack or you lose all your scvs and your main. It's very risky. @banshee ah ok thanks man @delayed gateway I've never heard of this, now I'm confused. So if their 1st gateway is delayed it can mean FE or hidden tech. But wouldn't me expanding be good versus either of those? I'm still confused about the hidden tech, why does a delayed gateway help people who want to hide their tech? When you say hidden tech do you mean fast tech that's hidden? or just normally timed tech that is hidden? I'm guessing the former. If I do expand when I see a delayed gateway and it turns out to be hidden tech won't I be in an alright position anyways? What constitutes hidden tech? Fast immortals or something? If I see they don't expand I think I would put in the effort to find their hidden tech I said hidden tech a lot Sorry for the bother
Delayed gateway can mean closer proxied gates or cannons in your base.
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Update for people; I will be streaming (99% sure) within a few hours and perform some of these builds for people in ladder. I will also answer questions online that are posted - in this thread - but answer them on the stream in more detail and maybe give some replay examples. Note that this is not within the hour, it's sometime within 2-3 hours unless i get delayed.
So prepare your questions! I will also answer about any race. Not - just terran.
Edit: may be up sooner then expected.
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Where can we view your stream? Is there a link on the TL SC2 home page?
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Hey Yosho, I was recently in the RH tournament with you when you went up against my boy Telov (and handed him a sound defeat), and I was wondering about your play on the first matchup.
I think you went refinery into rax/depot (I cant remember), and I was wondering what your thoughts were on that.
(Hope to see you on RH soon :D)
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On September 14 2010 14:43 pho308 wrote:
Hey Yosho, I was recently in the RH tournament with you when you went up against my boy Telov (and handed him a sound defeat), and I was wondering about your play on the first matchup.
I think you went refinery into rax/depot (I cant remember), and I was wondering what your thoughts were on that.
(Hope to see you on RH soon :D)
I actually decided not to join any teams unless it's contract; Looking more to go Pro and sponsors.
The only reason I haven't is that I am not playing on my computer, mine is not doing so well; missing a few parts but the important one is only 50$. Internet card or something I am unsure of the name. However in order to do tournaments I need the money to fix my computer so I have decided to be a freelancer in my meantime to pay for the computer. When the contracts expire I go for mass tournaments and try to get to the pro level. However I do enjoy the RH community and would love to participate in more fun with you all.
As for the strategy, it's a rush type strategy to prevent cheese; into early fast econ and fast aggression. You may see it more later tonight on the stream. (may)
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Just 1 bump for viewers to find the thread.
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Watching the stream
How does your mass viking build in TvZ stand up to 2 base mutas? With this build, how do you handle early roach pressure?
Also your walloffs in TvZ feel really late (see zelniq game on steppes). Are you still able to handle early pool pressure?
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I wanna see some good use of warp prism
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I haven't the time to read this entire thread, so if you've already answered this question, feel free to ignore.
As a terran player, what style of protoss play strikes the most fear into your heart? Is there a strategy you lose to more than you win?
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Hello ! First, i love your stream ^^
Thats said, I'm a platine player (750points) & have two questions :
"Wich map your consider favorite for playing Zerg ?"
another question :
I have a build for a Rush/Harass Muta like this :
10 Gaz
11 Overlord
11 Pool
When the pool is finished, i Tech for Leir & I take a 2nd gaz
(I put always 3 drones, when Gaz are finished)
When the Leir is Gone, I put immediatly a Spire and I product a Queen
My spire is over at 7.00 min of the game so a little bit after I have 6 Mutas
and then I go to harass.
What do you think about my Build ? Something Wrong ?
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Is it true that Terran "base management" is harder than the other races?
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hey yosho.
Stupid question. In tvp. Is it a good idea to have a few turrets in your base for the sole purpose of taking out detectors? Ive noticed that 90 percent of the games i lost vs protoss were because of early scouts hanging around my base before i could get a raven out and my early pushes get owned. Im not sure if the cost of building them are worth it but at the same time it could prevent hard counters early game.
Lastly. Any advice on how to counter a very early colossus blink stalker push? Ive lost games like that due to no air fire and fe preventions
thanks from a humble peasant lol
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On September 14 2010 18:49 eu.exodus wrote:
hey yosho.
Stupid question. In tvp. Is it a good idea to have a few turrets in your base for the sole purpose of taking out detectors? Ive noticed that 90 percent of the games i lost vs protoss were because of early scouts hanging around my base before i could get a raven out and my early pushes get owned. Im not sure if the cost of building them are worth it but at the same time it could prevent hard counters early game.
Lastly. Any advice on how to counter a very early colossus blink stalker push? Ive lost games like that due to no air fire and fe preventions
thanks from a humble peasant lol
1 turret is acceptable, they have a very large range. but only if you get the +1 attack.
As for the blink stalkers collasai get marauder heavy and 2-3 vikings. They can handle it pretty well.
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one more thing, when is the right time to build an ebay when using a 3.1.1 build?
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On September 14 2010 19:06 eu.exodus wrote:
one more thing, when is the right time to build an ebay when using a 3.1.1 build?
probably during the factory. as around that time the observer should be near finishing or being built.
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answered, can give more detail tomorrow if i remember. Sorry it's very late, off to sleep.
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On September 14 2010 04:11 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 04:07 KaiserJohan wrote:On September 14 2010 03:49 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 03:47 Moja wrote:What is your preferred unit composition against muta/ling/baneling in the midgame on a standard map (say xel naga caverns or cross positions on metalopolis)? On those maps, do you like to fast expand (build cc before 30 food)? If so how do you hold it against early pressure (specifically vs zerg)? In TvT, how do you play against tank-viking? What's your favorite unit in SC2? I like to go with hellions and marines + thors, it's my favorite composition. I sometimes go thor marauder hellion viking, not as viable but it really messes with their heads. I greatly enjoy tank - viking, I add marines and I have a really solid play as it, I never lose when someone differs as I am well practiced. I try to confuse the player with multiple battles as multi tasking is a strong suit of mine. My favorite unit is the mutalisk. About the hellion/rine/thor; how... are you supposed to survive the blings? Harass lings early on if they don't go roaches, Move the marines behind the hor when the lings / banelings arrive and the hellions up front, if he only has lings / blings / muta you can move the hellions behind too, it's a mow down.
What?????
How do your hellions counter blings?
How does the thor suck up tha bling damage? You can't mean the Z 1-a moved the blings on your army!?
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that build is good but you have to get mule out 1st otherwise depo 1st and constant scv production will out eco you, also be warey of supply blocking, other then that my standard build personally.
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On September 14 2010 14:47 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 14:43 pho308 wrote:
Hey Yosho, I was recently in the RH tournament with you when you went up against my boy Telov (and handed him a sound defeat), and I was wondering about your play on the first matchup.
I think you went refinery into rax/depot (I cant remember), and I was wondering what your thoughts were on that.
(Hope to see you on RH soon :D) I actually decided not to join any teams unless it's contract; Looking more to go Pro and sponsors. The only reason I haven't is that I am not playing on my computer, mine is not doing so well; missing a few parts but the important one is only 50$. Internet card or something I am unsure of the name. However in order to do tournaments I need the money to fix my computer so I have decided to be a freelancer in my meantime to pay for the computer. When the contracts expire I go for mass tournaments and try to get to the pro level. However I do enjoy the RH community and would love to participate in more fun with you all. As for the strategy, it's a rush type strategy to prevent cheese; into early fast econ and fast aggression. You may see it more later tonight on the stream. (may)
I didnt exactly meant or you to join RH, would just love to see you around sometime for our other Tournaments where we get about 40-50 people in. Love your style of play, and I like that BO to prevent cheese.
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On September 14 2010 20:05 Cibron wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 04:11 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 04:07 KaiserJohan wrote:On September 14 2010 03:49 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 03:47 Moja wrote:What is your preferred unit composition against muta/ling/baneling in the midgame on a standard map (say xel naga caverns or cross positions on metalopolis)? On those maps, do you like to fast expand (build cc before 30 food)? If so how do you hold it against early pressure (specifically vs zerg)? In TvT, how do you play against tank-viking? What's your favorite unit in SC2? I like to go with hellions and marines + thors, it's my favorite composition. I sometimes go thor marauder hellion viking, not as viable but it really messes with their heads. I greatly enjoy tank - viking, I add marines and I have a really solid play as it, I never lose when someone differs as I am well practiced. I try to confuse the player with multiple battles as multi tasking is a strong suit of mine. My favorite unit is the mutalisk. About the hellion/rine/thor; how... are you supposed to survive the blings? Harass lings early on if they don't go roaches, Move the marines behind the hor when the lings / banelings arrive and the hellions up front, if he only has lings / blings / muta you can move the hellions behind too, it's a mow down. What????? How do your hellions counter blings? How does the thor suck up tha bling damage? You can't mean the Z 1-a moved the blings on your army!?
Usually no; however a thor is also a giant block. The marines can get behind the actual army reducing the chance that banelings reach them. Delaying anything for slightly longer on the enemies attack is always a plus.
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On September 14 2010 21:57 pho308 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 14:47 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 14:43 pho308 wrote:
Hey Yosho, I was recently in the RH tournament with you when you went up against my boy Telov (and handed him a sound defeat), and I was wondering about your play on the first matchup.
I think you went refinery into rax/depot (I cant remember), and I was wondering what your thoughts were on that.
(Hope to see you on RH soon :D) I actually decided not to join any teams unless it's contract; Looking more to go Pro and sponsors. The only reason I haven't is that I am not playing on my computer, mine is not doing so well; missing a few parts but the important one is only 50$. Internet card or something I am unsure of the name. However in order to do tournaments I need the money to fix my computer so I have decided to be a freelancer in my meantime to pay for the computer. When the contracts expire I go for mass tournaments and try to get to the pro level. However I do enjoy the RH community and would love to participate in more fun with you all. As for the strategy, it's a rush type strategy to prevent cheese; into early fast econ and fast aggression. You may see it more later tonight on the stream. (may) I didnt exactly meant or you to join RH, would just love to see you around sometime for our other Tournaments where we get about 40-50 people in. Love your style of play, and I like that BO to prevent cheese.
Ah well thank you ^^ I like large tournaments but they are hard to manage. I will have to play in more with you all.
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As terrans, if you've started out heavy bio against zerg, and you see him going banelings, how do you respond?
Do you continue bio and try to kite/micro? Do you tech? if so to what? thors? tanks? air?
Thanks.
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On September 15 2010 03:22 Troy47 wrote:
As terrans, if you've started out heavy bio against zerg, and you see him going banelings, how do you respond?
Do you continue bio and try to kite/micro? Do you tech? if so to what? thors? tanks? air?
Thanks.
If he is going heavy banelings i'd get a few more marauders until I have tanks out, then more marines. marauders can soak up more damage and be a front until tanks blast them out of the ground. I would recommend getting a thor or 2 because banelings are usually followed by muta's. if they aren't coming already.
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On September 14 2010 02:54 JiYan wrote:
very simple question: Did you pick terran because of the terran campaign? What do you think about the idea that Terran dominates the rankings due to the Terran campaign?
No, just.... no. No no no no no.
Terrans dont dominate the rankings. They are more prevalent in diamond because it is very easy to go 1-1-1 into marine marauder tank off 1 base and that strat reliably beats players in plat and below.
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On September 15 2010 03:52 bobcat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 02:54 JiYan wrote:
very simple question: Did you pick terran because of the terran campaign? What do you think about the idea that Terran dominates the rankings due to the Terran campaign? No, just.... no. No no no no no. Terrans dont dominate the rankings. They are more prevalent in diamond because it is very easy to go 1-1-1 into marine marauder tank off 1 base and that strat reliably beats players in plat and below.
I picked terran because I played sc1 terran for 10 years. I'm actually a random player. I was told #4 random player in the world.
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Can you upload the replays from last night? 2 in particular:
- the one against zerg (I think metalopolis) where you pulled off a great hellion drop but still ended up losing (tons of marines killed by banelings at the xel naga tower)
- the one against protoss on steppes of war where he hid a proxy stargate and went 3gate voidray push, charging the rays on the rocks before the fight at your ramp
I'd really like to study those build orders
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On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm?
It's actually very easy to do. If I scout a T player going reactor rax into 2 ports ill immediately start making templars, they wont have a big enough force to push before im done if I do it right. Esp after the tank nerf.
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On September 15 2010 03:54 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 03:52 bobcat wrote:On September 14 2010 02:54 JiYan wrote:
very simple question: Did you pick terran because of the terran campaign? What do you think about the idea that Terran dominates the rankings due to the Terran campaign? No, just.... no. No no no no no. Terrans dont dominate the rankings. They are more prevalent in diamond because it is very easy to go 1-1-1 into marine marauder tank off 1 base and that strat reliably beats players in plat and below. I picked terran because I played sc1 terran for 10 years. I'm actually a random player. I was told #4 random player in the world.
I'm sure you're very good. My point was that terrans don't "dominate" the rankings because of campaign. I was explaining that a lot of the lower diamond T players are just good at 1-1-1 and that is why there are a dissproportionate amount of them. There are still plenty of good terran players out there who know all of the builds in upper and lower diamond.
Or you may have been agreeing with me. I cant tell, either way thanks.
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On September 15 2010 04:19 bobcat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm? It's actually very easy to do. If I souct a T player going reactor rax into 2 ports ill immediately start making templars, they wont have a big enough force to push before im done if I do it right. Esp after the tank nerf.
so to scout and react to this build youre going
1gate
core
1robo (need the observer to scout and to not die to cloak banshee)
-wait for observer to arrive at enemy base
twilight council
templar archives
2-3 templar (you want energy on them when you get storm after all)
psionic storm
well, sorry but that isnt the correct response to 2 port banshee. It's actually pretty crazy and ineffective.
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On September 15 2010 03:57 Moja wrote:
Can you upload the replays from last night? 2 in particular:
- the one against zerg (I think metalopolis) where you pulled off a great hellion drop but still ended up losing (tons of marines killed by banelings at the xel naga tower)
- the one against protoss on steppes of war where he hid a proxy stargate and went 3gate voidray push, charging the rays on the rocks before the fight at your ramp
I'd really like to study those build orders
I may be able to but those will be later tonight.. I will look into it ^^ hope you enjoyed the stream!
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On September 15 2010 04:24 bobcat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 03:54 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 03:52 bobcat wrote:On September 14 2010 02:54 JiYan wrote:
very simple question: Did you pick terran because of the terran campaign? What do you think about the idea that Terran dominates the rankings due to the Terran campaign? No, just.... no. No no no no no. Terrans dont dominate the rankings. They are more prevalent in diamond because it is very easy to go 1-1-1 into marine marauder tank off 1 base and that strat reliably beats players in plat and below. I picked terran because I played sc1 terran for 10 years. I'm actually a random player. I was told #4 random player in the world. I'm sure you're very good. My point was that terrans don't "dominate" the rankings because of campaign. I was explaining that a lot of the lower diamond T players are just good at 1-1-1 and that is why there are a dissproportionate amount of them. There are still plenty of good terran players out there who know all of the builds in upper and lower diamond. Or you may have been agreeing with me. I cant tell, either way thanks.
Haha I was agree'ing with you in a sense. More so answering your qoute as I couldn't find the actual message.
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On September 15 2010 04:26 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:19 bobcat wrote:On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm? It's actually very easy to do. If I souct a T player going reactor rax into 2 ports ill immediately start making templars, they wont have a big enough force to push before im done if I do it right. Esp after the tank nerf. so to scout and react to this build youre going 1gate core 1robo (need the observer to scout and to not die to cloak banshee) -wait for observer to arrive at enemy base twilight council templar archives 2-3 templar (you want energy on them when you get storm after all) psionic storm well, sorry but that isnt the correct response to 2 port banshee. It's actually pretty crazy and ineffective.
2 port banshee is countered by pheonix; however if you fail to win in the time it takes to get storm you may lose right there. You have to transition out of it well. Storm hits the front line where the banshee's and ground units are stacked. So you are hitting double the units, ontop of that feedback is killer against banshee's.
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On September 15 2010 04:26 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:19 bobcat wrote:On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm? It's actually very easy to do. If I souct a T player going reactor rax into 2 ports ill immediately start making templars, they wont have a big enough force to push before im done if I do it right. Esp after the tank nerf. so to scout and react to this build youre going 1gate core 1robo (need the observer to scout and to not die to cloak banshee) -wait for observer to arrive at enemy base twilight council templar archives 2-3 templar (you want energy on them when you get storm after all) psionic storm well, sorry but that isnt the correct response to 2 port banshee. It's actually pretty crazy and ineffective.
If your opponent is running banshees, ravens, vikings with marines, how are templar a bad route to go? Feedback/storm banshees, strom rines, vikings are ineffective, add 4 or 5 zealots with a fair group of stalkers and you shouldn't have any problems. How do you counter massive air? Phoneix obs? Speedrays? I welcome a better alternative, but mine works just fine. Also, having an observer in your opponents base leaves the build open to flexibility, if you see all 2 tech lab ports, obviously make a phoenix or three. If however you see marine tank with medivacs and a few banshees, templar is definitely the right hammer for that nail.
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On September 15 2010 04:31 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:26 ChickenLips wrote:On September 15 2010 04:19 bobcat wrote:On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm? It's actually very easy to do. If I souct a T player going reactor rax into 2 ports ill immediately start making templars, they wont have a big enough force to push before im done if I do it right. Esp after the tank nerf. so to scout and react to this build youre going 1gate core 1robo (need the observer to scout and to not die to cloak banshee) -wait for observer to arrive at enemy base twilight council templar archives 2-3 templar (you want energy on them when you get storm after all) psionic storm well, sorry but that isnt the correct response to 2 port banshee. It's actually pretty crazy and ineffective. 2 port banshee is countered by pheonix; however if you fail to win in the time it takes to get storm you may lose right there. You have to transition out of it well. Storm hits the front line where the banshee's and ground units are stacked. So you are hitting double the units, ontop of that feedback is killer against banshee's.
THANK YOU!
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On September 15 2010 04:40 bobcat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:26 ChickenLips wrote:On September 15 2010 04:19 bobcat wrote:On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm? It's actually very easy to do. If I souct a T player going reactor rax into 2 ports ill immediately start making templars, they wont have a big enough force to push before im done if I do it right. Esp after the tank nerf. so to scout and react to this build youre going 1gate core 1robo (need the observer to scout and to not die to cloak banshee) -wait for observer to arrive at enemy base twilight council templar archives 2-3 templar (you want energy on them when you get storm after all) psionic storm well, sorry but that isnt the correct response to 2 port banshee. It's actually pretty crazy and ineffective. If your opponent is running banshees, ravens, vikings with marines, how are templar a bad route to go? Feedback/storm banshees, strom rines, vikings are ineffective, add 4 or 5 zealots with a fair group of stalkers and you shouldn't have any problems. How do you counter massive air? Phoneix obs? Speedrays? I welcome a better alternative, but mine works just fine. Also, having an observer in your opponents base leaves the build open to flexibility, if you see all 2 tech lab ports, obviously make a phoenix or three. If however you see marine tank with medivacs and a few banshees, templar is definitely the right hammer for that nail.
Pretty accurate information; depends on the setting and so on but mostly accurate.
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So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this?
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On September 15 2010 04:44 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:40 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 04:26 ChickenLips wrote:On September 15 2010 04:19 bobcat wrote:On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm? It's actually very easy to do. If I souct a T player going reactor rax into 2 ports ill immediately start making templars, they wont have a big enough force to push before im done if I do it right. Esp after the tank nerf. so to scout and react to this build youre going 1gate core 1robo (need the observer to scout and to not die to cloak banshee) -wait for observer to arrive at enemy base twilight council templar archives 2-3 templar (you want energy on them when you get storm after all) psionic storm well, sorry but that isnt the correct response to 2 port banshee. It's actually pretty crazy and ineffective. If your opponent is running banshees, ravens, vikings with marines, how are templar a bad route to go? Feedback/storm banshees, strom rines, vikings are ineffective, add 4 or 5 zealots with a fair group of stalkers and you shouldn't have any problems. How do you counter massive air? Phoneix obs? Speedrays? I welcome a better alternative, but mine works just fine. Also, having an observer in your opponents base leaves the build open to flexibility, if you see all 2 tech lab ports, obviously make a phoenix or three. If however you see marine tank with medivacs and a few banshees, templar is definitely the right hammer for that nail. Pretty accurate information; depends on the setting and so on but mostly accurate.
I mean yeah on a map like blistering sands or kulas where there are 2 base entrances I'll go for a hard early 4 gate push +1 immortal and just keep juggling attack points until I can get into his base and punish the fast tech. But against a 1 ramp terran it has been burned into my brain that I cannot be agressive in the early game without losing the game.
Which leads me to a question for you Vegasminion, when you play against a toss player on a map with 1 ramp into your base like Lost Temple or Metalopolis, have you ever run into a player who successfully pressured you early game without going all in?
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On September 15 2010 04:45 Vegasminion wrote:
So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this?
Blizz posted something about their top 200 ranked players, you might be on that list.
EDIT: Found it, you're 102
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/789458
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On September 15 2010 04:56 bobcat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:44 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 04:40 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 04:26 ChickenLips wrote:On September 15 2010 04:19 bobcat wrote:On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm? It's actually very easy to do. If I souct a T player going reactor rax into 2 ports ill immediately start making templars, they wont have a big enough force to push before im done if I do it right. Esp after the tank nerf. so to scout and react to this build youre going 1gate core 1robo (need the observer to scout and to not die to cloak banshee) -wait for observer to arrive at enemy base twilight council templar archives 2-3 templar (you want energy on them when you get storm after all) psionic storm well, sorry but that isnt the correct response to 2 port banshee. It's actually pretty crazy and ineffective. If your opponent is running banshees, ravens, vikings with marines, how are templar a bad route to go? Feedback/storm banshees, strom rines, vikings are ineffective, add 4 or 5 zealots with a fair group of stalkers and you shouldn't have any problems. How do you counter massive air? Phoneix obs? Speedrays? I welcome a better alternative, but mine works just fine. Also, having an observer in your opponents base leaves the build open to flexibility, if you see all 2 tech lab ports, obviously make a phoenix or three. If however you see marine tank with medivacs and a few banshees, templar is definitely the right hammer for that nail. Pretty accurate information; depends on the setting and so on but mostly accurate. I mean yeah on a map like blistering sands or kulas where there are 2 base entrances I'll go for a hard early 4 gate push +1 immortal and just keep juggling attack points until I can get into his base and punish the fast tech. But against a 1 ramp terran it has been burned into my brain that I cannot be agressive in the early game without losing the game. Which leads me to a question for you Vegasminion, when you play against a toss player on a map with 1 ramp into your base like Lost Temple or Metalopolis, have you ever run into a player who successfully pressured you early game without going all in?
When I try a fast expand build yes; You really can try to do something aggressive with your first immortal if you 1 gate into robo then a 2nd gate. Stay out his ramp and try to snipe units / buildings with an observer. maybe see if he has bunkers up. If he doesn't you may be able to just break him.
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On September 15 2010 04:58 bobcat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:45 Vegasminion wrote:
So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this? Blizz posted something about their top 200 ranked players, you might be on that list.
I know I am at the 102 in the top 200 but I didn't see anything about global.
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On September 15 2010 05:02 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:58 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 04:45 Vegasminion wrote:
So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this? Blizz posted something about their top 200 ranked players, you might be on that list. I know I am at the 102 in the top 200 but I didn't see anything about global.
Dunno, but you're 4th random on that list so gj.
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On September 15 2010 05:04 bobcat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 05:02 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 04:58 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 04:45 Vegasminion wrote:
So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this? Blizz posted something about their top 200 ranked players, you might be on that list. I know I am at the 102 in the top 200 but I didn't see anything about global. Dunno, but you're 4th random on that list so gj.
I can't take credit if I don't know it's true! :D
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On September 15 2010 05:07 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 05:04 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 05:02 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 04:58 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 04:45 Vegasminion wrote:
So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this? Blizz posted something about their top 200 ranked players, you might be on that list. I know I am at the 102 in the top 200 but I didn't see anything about global. Dunno, but you're 4th random on that list so gj. lol can't take credit if I don't know it's true!
http://sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/diamond/1/random/points/0
Third in US / Fourth in world with only 10 points to second (probably not true anymore)
Most of my losses are late game (or super early game) when I am in a lead but I somehow manage to throw away the game by just not being experienced enough above 150 supply. Do you have some tactics or tips you can give me what to pay special attention to in order to secure a win when in a lead? Just general frame of mind and what to look out for, what to do stuff etc. Thank you!
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Oh dam. Go me ^^ thanks for the info.
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On September 15 2010 05:13 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 05:07 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 05:04 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 05:02 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 04:58 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 04:45 Vegasminion wrote:
So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this? Blizz posted something about their top 200 ranked players, you might be on that list. I know I am at the 102 in the top 200 but I didn't see anything about global. Dunno, but you're 4th random on that list so gj. lol can't take credit if I don't know it's true! http://sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/diamond/1/random/points/0Third in US / Fourth in world with only 10 points to second (probably not true anymore) Most of my losses are late game (or super early game) when I am in a lead but I somehow manage to throw away the game by just not being experienced enough above 150 supply. Do you have some tactics or tips you can give me what to pay special attention to in order to secure a win when in a lead? Just general frame of mind and what to look out for, what to do stuff etc. Thank you!
I need a more idea of what you mean; as in what race is this against? All?
If it's against terran at that stage it's positioning and map control; keep them strong.
If it's against protoss stay on even bases and be very careful not to mis position your army. Army position is very key. If he's storming a lot try to get a sneak emp. This comes down to a lot of micro and army composition. while maintaining your macro.
If it's against zerg; snipe bases but never make it so he can 1-a your main base. The zerg has to surround you here to really get you; hug edges with your marines behind units un attainable; drop often to snipe mains. make 3-4 reapers just to go mineral harass.
I need more detail my friend.
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On September 15 2010 05:20 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 05:13 ChickenLips wrote:On September 15 2010 05:07 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 05:04 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 05:02 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 04:58 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 04:45 Vegasminion wrote:
So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this? Blizz posted something about their top 200 ranked players, you might be on that list. I know I am at the 102 in the top 200 but I didn't see anything about global. Dunno, but you're 4th random on that list so gj. lol can't take credit if I don't know it's true! http://sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/diamond/1/random/points/0Third in US / Fourth in world with only 10 points to second (probably not true anymore) Most of my losses are late game (or super early game) when I am in a lead but I somehow manage to throw away the game by just not being experienced enough above 150 supply. Do you have some tactics or tips you can give me what to pay special attention to in order to secure a win when in a lead? Just general frame of mind and what to look out for, what to do stuff etc. Thank you! I need a more idea of what you mean; as in what race is this against? All? If it's against terran at that stage it's positioning and map control; keep them strong. If it's against protoss stay on even bases and be very careful not to mis position your army. Army position is very key. If he's storming a lot try to get a sneak emp. This comes down to a lot of micro and army composition. while maintaining your macro. If it's against zerg; snipe bases but never make it so he can 1-a your main base. The zerg has to surround you here to really get you; hug edges with your marines behind units un attainable; drop often to snipe mains. make 3-4 reapers just to go mineral harass. I need more detail my friend.
Wow. I wrote a fairly ambiguous post and you already pointed out EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THING i was doing wrong.
Against Protoss I would be like 40 food ahead trying to snipe off Nexi while he just warps in templar to slowly but surely whittle down my army. I always forget to position my army correctly, I just macro and let the rally command take care of it and then lose half my army to templar + colossus before I can even react properly.
Against Zerg I manage to maintain map control with mech (mainly tanks and hellions plus maybe a stray thor for baneling soaking) + MMM + bunkers & turrets in front of his base until he just goes tier 3 and a move rapes my army. I have to be way more active about harassing in all matchups. It's so simple. Almost every time i harass I win lol
Day9 said in his recent daily that even if scourge controlled air in BW, Flash would just force the drops to work by doing some tactic. Do you think such drop forcing is possible or do you just have general pointers / tips / timings for dropping? It's so effective and yet I almost never get myself to do it since there's always something else on the agenda (omg need to survive, omg need those medivacs, omg need to expand / macro we)
Thanks again
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On September 15 2010 05:31 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 05:20 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 05:13 ChickenLips wrote:On September 15 2010 05:07 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 05:04 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 05:02 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 04:58 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 04:45 Vegasminion wrote:
So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this? Blizz posted something about their top 200 ranked players, you might be on that list. I know I am at the 102 in the top 200 but I didn't see anything about global. Dunno, but you're 4th random on that list so gj. lol can't take credit if I don't know it's true! http://sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/diamond/1/random/points/0Third in US / Fourth in world with only 10 points to second (probably not true anymore) Most of my losses are late game (or super early game) when I am in a lead but I somehow manage to throw away the game by just not being experienced enough above 150 supply. Do you have some tactics or tips you can give me what to pay special attention to in order to secure a win when in a lead? Just general frame of mind and what to look out for, what to do stuff etc. Thank you! I need a more idea of what you mean; as in what race is this against? All? If it's against terran at that stage it's positioning and map control; keep them strong. If it's against protoss stay on even bases and be very careful not to mis position your army. Army position is very key. If he's storming a lot try to get a sneak emp. This comes down to a lot of micro and army composition. while maintaining your macro. If it's against zerg; snipe bases but never make it so he can 1-a your main base. The zerg has to surround you here to really get you; hug edges with your marines behind units un attainable; drop often to snipe mains. make 3-4 reapers just to go mineral harass. I need more detail my friend. Wow. I wrote a fairly ambiguous post and you already pointed out EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THING i was doing wrong. Against Protoss I would be like 40 food ahead trying to snipe off Nexi while he just warps in templar to slowly but surely whittle down my army. I always forget to position my army correctly, I just macro and let the rally command take care of it and then lose half my army to templar + colossus before I can even react properly. Against Zerg I manage to maintain map control with mech (mainly tanks and hellions plus maybe a stray thor for baneling soaking) + MMM + bunkers & turrets in front of his base until he just goes tier 3 and a move rapes my army. I have to be way more active about harassing in all matchups. It's so simple. Almost every time i harass I win lol Day9 said in his recent daily that even if scourge controlled air in BW, Flash would just force the drops to work by doing some tactic. Do you think such drop forcing is possible or do you just have general pointers / tips / timings for dropping? It's so effective and yet I almost never get myself to do it since there's always something else on the agenda (omg need to survive, omg need those medivacs, omg need to expand / macro we) Thanks again
Forcing the drops is very possible, last night while streaming i flew 3 drops intentionally over a zerg control watch tower to have him intercept it with his army to his expo accross metalop; in the meantime I stimmed 15 marines to his main and took out 2 hatcheries while he was distracted and 2 queens; it was a very big blow to him as those were his main unit producing hatcheries. He was down to 2 hatcheries with queens producing versus a 3 base terran army.
In the end I overwhelmed him with numbers.
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Update: I have asked for my stream to be featured and I should know sometime within a week if this will be allowed. For all you streamers who have needed help finding me this will be a big help and hopefully expand my capabilities in helping everyone.
Also incase people missed it I did open this thread to ask about any race; any matchup; any strategy; and more. It's not just terran anymore.
In the upcoming streams I will also try to give replays of the games that I do play near instant for al the viewers, however I need help finding a website that everyone loves and is the best place to upload / download from. Any feedback will help considered.
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On September 15 2010 04:58 bobcat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:45 Vegasminion wrote:
So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this? Blizz posted something about their top 200 ranked players, you might be on that list. EDIT: Found it, you're 102 http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/789458
thank you ^^
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On September 14 2010 20:13 TibblesEvilCat wrote:
that build is good but you have to get mule out 1st otherwise depo 1st and constant scv production will out eco you, also be warey of supply blocking, other then that my standard build personally.
Which build are you talking about?
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Stream is coming online will answer Q&A's
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Do you use fast scroll (middle mouse button scroll) ?
I think that it is quite useful as it is fast but pressing the middle mouse button is not very efficient. If it was move to the right click button I would definitely use it all the time.
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Hello Yosho, I am a 900 point Terran player and commentator for sclegacy.com, struggling very badly with the TvZ matchup.
It seems that the inevitability of Mutalisks forces me to remain at home until i can feel safe with turrets, and spine crawlers and easy expansions nullify my attempts to harass and kill drones, upon which Ultralisks overwhelm me.
You can see in the replay I attached that I am actually able to defend from muta harass, stop a very large army of Ultralisks, and then lose when my Thors are destroyed by his next wave of larvae which are all zerglings, which he then sends in before his new Ultras, thusly killing the Thors before they can 250 mm Strike Cannon the Ultralisks.
It has it all: thrills, chills, spills, action, and BM whining from me at the end. I would really appreciate your help in this, I have struggled with this matchup since beta.
TvZ Replay - SaharaDrac vs Zul
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On September 15 2010 16:43 Ancient.eu wrote:
Do you use fast scroll (middle mouse button scroll) ?
I think that it is quite useful as it is fast but pressing the middle mouse button is not very efficient. If it was move to the right click button I would definitely use it all the time.
I have no idea what that is; I will try it out and tell you my opinion later today.
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On September 15 2010 17:25 EximoSua2 wrote:Hello Yosho, I am a 900 point Terran player and commentator for sclegacy.com, struggling very badly with the TvZ matchup. It seems that the inevitability of Mutalisks forces me to remain at home until i can feel safe with turrets, and spine crawlers and easy expansions nullify my attempts to harass and kill drones, upon which Ultralisks overwhelm me. You can see in the replay I attached that I am actually able to defend from muta harass, stop a very large army of Ultralisks, and then lose when my Thors are destroyed by his next wave of larvae which are all zerglings, which he then sends in before his new Ultras, thusly killing the Thors before they can 250 mm Strike Cannon the Ultralisks. It has it all: thrills, chills, spills, action, and BM whining from me at the end. I would really appreciate your help in this, I have struggled with this matchup since beta. TvZ Replay - SaharaDrac vs Zul
I will look at your replay further later in the day and comment on it; however I don't usually do that too much unless i'm teaching someone. No promises; however that is one thing that I sometimes struggle with too. and it is something that I will research further on thursday or later this evening. Stick with me then and you get a more definitive answer.
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Hey could you record your videos with livestream? I think there's a section somewhere on the website. I would love to take a look at your stream but I'm not always able to find the time for live streams. Thx!
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Just a quick question. In TvZ vs Muta harrass, how many turrets do you place in your mineral line and do you ever get the range and armor upgrade from the EB.
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On September 15 2010 22:09 ChickenLips wrote:
Hey could you record your videos with livestream? I think there's a section somewhere on the website. I would love to take a look at your stream but I'm not always able to find the time for live streams. Thx!
I am able to record them with Xfire however I am unable to until my computer gets fixed. I can't really download / record on my brothers computer.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Hi, I'm not sure if this question has been answered already, but what do you do against mass muta? And by mass muta I mean at least a good 30-35 that's constantly being reinforced. I've tried Thors/Marines but I just either can't get enough, get contained in my base, or try and move out and get nuked by banelings/slings. Have you had any experience dealing with this efficiently? Thanks!
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On September 15 2010 23:08 BadStigma wrote:
Just a quick question. In TvZ vs Muta harrass, how many turrets do you place in your mineral line and do you ever get the range and armor upgrade from the EB.
Sometimes I get the armor upgrades if they are trying to snipe mains and I get more planetary.
As for turrets 1 in your mineral line is good but i try to get 2 behind 1 in front of the CC.
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On September 16 2010 01:11 Wunder wrote:
Hi, I'm not sure if this question has been answered already, but what do you do against mass muta? And by mass muta I mean at least a good 30-35 that's constantly being reinforced. I've tried Thors/Marines but I just either can't get enough, get contained in my base, or try and move out and get nuked by banelings/slings. Have you had any experience dealing with this efficiently? Thanks!
Well spread out thors really can be key, I do feel thors marine are the best it may be up to your micro and unit placement that need work.
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How do you feel about 2 gate robo fast colossus opening against a 3 raxing terran? I find I never get to late game with this strat because if my colossus isn't out by the time he pushes out with his MMG army, I lose due to not enough gateways and if I get a nice FF off and my colossus is out I push out and win.
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Stream going down; will be on later tonight. Will update thread when it does. Thanks everyone!
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On September 14 2010 02:36 JamieDukes wrote:
k yosho i have a couple of questions
high ranked gold Terran
1) whats counter to banelings if you dont want to get siege tanks (unfair units)
2) if my enemy is makin alot of zealots should i add in ravens for auto turret and missile launcher?
3) it eveyr viable to make first command cenre into Fortress against Zergling rush?
with your mindset about #1, you're never going to get any better than you are now.
If anything, you're just going to slowly fall out as other players get better, until you drop that scrubby attitude.
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On September 16 2010 05:58 Rubyiris wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 02:36 JamieDukes wrote:
k yosho i have a couple of questions
high ranked gold Terran
1) whats counter to banelings if you dont want to get siege tanks (unfair units)
2) if my enemy is makin alot of zealots should i add in ravens for auto turret and missile launcher?
3) it eveyr viable to make first command cenre into Fortress against Zergling rush? with your mindset about #1, you're never going to get any better than you are now. If anything, you're just going to slowly fall out as other players get better, until you drop that scrubby attitude.
I don't see him saying anything that may show as an ego; he just said high ranked gold terran so I'm assuming 500+ points in gold; that gives me an idea of his skill level and allows me to get more detailed advice to what his bracket usually struggles with.
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Stream is now online and taking more questions for those who asked earlier.
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On September 15 2010 17:25 EximoSua2 wrote:Hello Yosho, I am a 900 point Terran player and commentator for sclegacy.com, struggling very badly with the TvZ matchup. It seems that the inevitability of Mutalisks forces me to remain at home until i can feel safe with turrets, and spine crawlers and easy expansions nullify my attempts to harass and kill drones, upon which Ultralisks overwhelm me. You can see in the replay I attached that I am actually able to defend from muta harass, stop a very large army of Ultralisks, and then lose when my Thors are destroyed by his next wave of larvae which are all zerglings, which he then sends in before his new Ultras, thusly killing the Thors before they can 250 mm Strike Cannon the Ultralisks. It has it all: thrills, chills, spills, action, and BM whining from me at the end. I would really appreciate your help in this, I have struggled with this matchup since beta. TvZ Replay - SaharaDrac vs Zul
I'm going to respond to this just because I'm a huge fan of your commentaries.
Watched the replay:
Stuff to improve
- Create a stronger first timing push. Your opponent this game was droning HARD. You can work out a lot of timing pushes that hit before mutalisks that can immediately end the game against super greedy zergs, while still punishing more conservative zerg openers (forcing them to build a lot of defense), and allowing you to expand on time with a very strong economy. PM me if you wanna steal some of mine
- More constant scv production. After you took your first expo you had a big lull in scv production til about your third. He was way ahead of you in income because of this. This is probably the main reason you lost.
- Don't stop harassing. You were good about this until your first major 2 base push got defeated, then you stopped. Hellions are cheap (minerals only) and can kill a lot of drones. Send out groups of 4 as scouts to punish undefended expos.
- Unit composition. I think you had awesome composition until the final battle. You were floating a ton of minerals; minerals which could have been hellions and marines. With those you would have crushed his army and won the game.
- Unit priority in battle: in your first major mech push, you had all your bio in front. I've found your number 1 priority should be to keep your marines alive. They do absurd DPS and hit both ground and air.
- Upgrades. You were pretty good about this, but you really want stim a lot earlier, and + infantry attack is good to have early too. You had lots of spare gas for these. With stim I think you would have won at your first mech push.
- Sensor towers: they are awesome. Use them. They give you huge peace of mind and discourage muta harass, doom drops, and nydus attacks.
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On September 16 2010 07:27 Moja wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 17:25 EximoSua2 wrote:Hello Yosho, I am a 900 point Terran player and commentator for sclegacy.com, struggling very badly with the TvZ matchup. It seems that the inevitability of Mutalisks forces me to remain at home until i can feel safe with turrets, and spine crawlers and easy expansions nullify my attempts to harass and kill drones, upon which Ultralisks overwhelm me. You can see in the replay I attached that I am actually able to defend from muta harass, stop a very large army of Ultralisks, and then lose when my Thors are destroyed by his next wave of larvae which are all zerglings, which he then sends in before his new Ultras, thusly killing the Thors before they can 250 mm Strike Cannon the Ultralisks. It has it all: thrills, chills, spills, action, and BM whining from me at the end. I would really appreciate your help in this, I have struggled with this matchup since beta. TvZ Replay - SaharaDrac vs Zul I'm going to respond to this just because I'm a huge fan of your commentaries. Watched the replay: Stuff to improve - Create a stronger first timing push. Your opponent this game was droning HARD. You can work out a lot of timing pushes that hit before mutalisks that can immediately end the game against super greedy zergs, while still punishing more conservative zerg openers (forcing them to build a lot of defense), and allowing you to expand on time with a very strong economy. PM me if you wanna steal some of mine - More constant scv production. After you took your first expo you had a big lull in scv production til about your third. He was way ahead of you in income because of this. This is probably the main reason you lost. - Don't stop harassing. You were good about this until your first major 2 base push got defeated, then you stopped. Hellions are cheap (minerals only) and can kill a lot of drones. Send out groups of 4 as scouts to punish undefended expos. - Unit composition. I think you had awesome composition until the final battle. You were floating a ton of minerals; minerals which could have been hellions and marines. With those you would have crushed his army and won the game. - Unit priority in battle: in your first major mech push, you had all your bio in front. I've found your number 1 priority should be to keep your marines alive. They do absurd DPS and hit both ground and air. - Upgrades. You were pretty good about this, but you really want stim a lot earlier, and + infantry attack is good to have early too. You had lots of spare gas for these. With stim I think you would have won at your first mech push. - Sensor towers: they are awesome. Use them. They give you huge peace of mind and discourage muta harass, doom drops, and nydus attacks.
Thank you for answering for me ^^ I can't go check everyones replays so this is appreciated.
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Mmm I love your stream, you should get featured! Sexy voice and all.
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What do you think about the 3-1-2 or 2-1-2 builds against protoss, as opposed to standard 2-3 rax bio openers?
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So couple of questions
1) How come you don't wall vs toss? Suppose what i'm actually asking is how do punish a wall vs toss?
2) Has the 9rax 10depot build fallen out of favor with you? You seem to be doing the 9depot 12rax on the stream.
Also no longer able to watch the stream today, so a response in thread would be appreciated.
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What are your best matchups? Worst matchups? What gives you the most trouble?
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On September 16 2010 08:20 Almin wrote:
Mmm I love your stream, you should get featured! Sexy voice and all.
You are my biggest fan, get out of my window.
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On September 16 2010 08:21 Moja wrote:
What do you think about the 3-1-2 or 2-1-2 builds against protoss, as opposed to standard 2-3 rax bio openers?
2-3 rax are my favorite;
the counter is pheonix however I love it because if the opponent plays badly with detectors you can punish to no end. Which is why peopel scream over powered terran who to crush you.
as for the 2-1-2 less marines? you could get a faster expo. throw some bunkers down at your expo with the minerals you save.
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On September 16 2010 08:24 habbey wrote:
So couple of questions
1) How come you don't wall vs toss? Suppose what i'm actually asking is how do punish a wall vs toss?
2) Has the 9rax 10depot build fallen out of favor with you? You seem to be doing the 9depot 12rax on the stream.
Also no longer able to watch the stream today, so a response in thread would be appreciated.
I don't wall off because I don't want void rays charging on my buildings and I don't want stalkers or immortals to be able to snipe with an observer.
If you are a protoss and the terran walls go void rays. void ray stalker 2 gate void ray. charge on rocks, charge on buildings. Badly controlled and you die but good charge and it's instant win.
If the toss walls off, scan + stim and take down gateways or warp gates at the sides. very good.
Good I was typing one before I read that! Thanks for watching.
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what is your standard opening in tvt in close positions (and cross positions) if you know your opponent is not cheesing?
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I prefer the 1-1-1 more tanks then viking build when I KNOW he's not cheesing and rely on micro. Otherwise I get a bunker and a raven.
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Stream is down - I will update when it's up again.
Good questions asked on the stream thanks everyone!
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Coming online now! Will take more questions / requests.
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Should I go 9rax 10 depot 11 OC 12gas build or standard 10 depot 12 rax 13 gas?
In ladder that 9rax build is very good becouse there is lot of cheeses. And if I go that standard 12rax build I get siege tanks like 15sec earlier than in that other build. So which one do you prefer?
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On September 16 2010 07:27 Moja wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 17:25 EximoSua2 wrote:Hello Yosho, I am a 900 point Terran player and commentator for sclegacy.com, struggling very badly with the TvZ matchup. It seems that the inevitability of Mutalisks forces me to remain at home until i can feel safe with turrets, and spine crawlers and easy expansions nullify my attempts to harass and kill drones, upon which Ultralisks overwhelm me. You can see in the replay I attached that I am actually able to defend from muta harass, stop a very large army of Ultralisks, and then lose when my Thors are destroyed by his next wave of larvae which are all zerglings, which he then sends in before his new Ultras, thusly killing the Thors before they can 250 mm Strike Cannon the Ultralisks. It has it all: thrills, chills, spills, action, and BM whining from me at the end. I would really appreciate your help in this, I have struggled with this matchup since beta. TvZ Replay - SaharaDrac vs Zul I'm going to respond to this just because I'm a huge fan of your commentaries. Watched the replay: Stuff to improve - Create a stronger first timing push. Your opponent this game was droning HARD. You can work out a lot of timing pushes that hit before mutalisks that can immediately end the game against super greedy zergs, while still punishing more conservative zerg openers (forcing them to build a lot of defense), and allowing you to expand on time with a very strong economy. PM me if you wanna steal some of mine - More constant scv production. After you took your first expo you had a big lull in scv production til about your third. He was way ahead of you in income because of this. This is probably the main reason you lost. - Don't stop harassing. You were good about this until your first major 2 base push got defeated, then you stopped. Hellions are cheap (minerals only) and can kill a lot of drones. Send out groups of 4 as scouts to punish undefended expos. - Unit composition. I think you had awesome composition until the final battle. You were floating a ton of minerals; minerals which could have been hellions and marines. With those you would have crushed his army and won the game. - Unit priority in battle: in your first major mech push, you had all your bio in front. I've found your number 1 priority should be to keep your marines alive. They do absurd DPS and hit both ground and air. - Upgrades. You were pretty good about this, but you really want stim a lot earlier, and + infantry attack is good to have early too. You had lots of spare gas for these. With stim I think you would have won at your first mech push. - Sensor towers: they are awesome. Use them. They give you huge peace of mind and discourage muta harass, doom drops, and nydus attacks.
Thanks for the feedback, now that my energy has been drained (LOLOL RITE) I will definitely try to work on this stuff, gonna make another post-it for my monitor with this stuff.
Update: Just laddered with these things in mind, things were going well, very high pressure baneling bust Zerg, (baneling busted, twice!!) which i survived, then countered with a single tank marauder-stim drop at his natural, took it out completely, then............
WINDOWS.
AUTOMATIC.
UPDATE.
Fucking Christ. ON a pogo stick. Doing a fantastic Rodney Dangerfield impression.
Needless to say, automatic update is off now. As for the tips, I think my play is already elevated. I would have lost to that guy legitimately a week ago. Sorry to hog the attention in another guy's thread..
I really like Yosho's stream a lot, great for terran play when I'm in between casting and GSL games. =)
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
On September 16 2010 03:26 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2010 01:11 Wunder wrote:
Hi, I'm not sure if this question has been answered already, but what do you do against mass muta? And by mass muta I mean at least a good 30-35 that's constantly being reinforced. I've tried Thors/Marines but I just either can't get enough, get contained in my base, or try and move out and get nuked by banelings/slings. Have you had any experience dealing with this efficiently? Thanks! Well spread out thors really can be key, I do feel thors marine are the best it may be up to your micro and unit placement that need work.
I faced a Zerg just now who went Mass Muta/Ling and I'm not entirely sure how many bases he was on, but he just kept going muta/ling and abusing my immobile thors. He didn't even magic box his mutas and I had about 6-7 thors and whenever I got a volley off it really tore through his pack, but he eventually starved me out and I couldn't do anything against it, do you have any suggestions for this? ><
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On September 16 2010 23:53 Wunder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2010 03:26 Vegasminion wrote:On September 16 2010 01:11 Wunder wrote:
Hi, I'm not sure if this question has been answered already, but what do you do against mass muta? And by mass muta I mean at least a good 30-35 that's constantly being reinforced. I've tried Thors/Marines but I just either can't get enough, get contained in my base, or try and move out and get nuked by banelings/slings. Have you had any experience dealing with this efficiently? Thanks! Well spread out thors really can be key, I do feel thors marine are the best it may be up to your micro and unit placement that need work. I faced a Zerg just now who went Mass Muta/Ling and I'm not entirely sure how many bases he was on, but he just kept going muta/ling and abusing my immobile thors. He didn't even magic box his mutas and I had about 6-7 thors and whenever I got a volley off it really tore through his pack, but he eventually starved me out and I couldn't do anything against it, do you have any suggestions for this? ><
Go hellion/thor and (presumably) take your 3rd faster. Play defensively until you max out (don't forget upgrades) and push with your deathball.
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On September 16 2010 14:53 slaiqq wrote:
Should I go 9rax 10 depot 11 OC 12gas build or standard 10 depot 12 rax 13 gas?
In ladder that 9rax build is very good becouse there is lot of cheeses. And if I go that standard 12rax build I get siege tanks like 15sec earlier than in that other build. So which one do you prefer?
If you expect cheese every game; go the anti cheese build. 15 seconds is giving back by the time it takes them to cross the map.
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On September 16 2010 17:19 EximoSua2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2010 07:27 Moja wrote:On September 15 2010 17:25 EximoSua2 wrote:Hello Yosho, I am a 900 point Terran player and commentator for sclegacy.com, struggling very badly with the TvZ matchup. It seems that the inevitability of Mutalisks forces me to remain at home until i can feel safe with turrets, and spine crawlers and easy expansions nullify my attempts to harass and kill drones, upon which Ultralisks overwhelm me. You can see in the replay I attached that I am actually able to defend from muta harass, stop a very large army of Ultralisks, and then lose when my Thors are destroyed by his next wave of larvae which are all zerglings, which he then sends in before his new Ultras, thusly killing the Thors before they can 250 mm Strike Cannon the Ultralisks. It has it all: thrills, chills, spills, action, and BM whining from me at the end. I would really appreciate your help in this, I have struggled with this matchup since beta. TvZ Replay - SaharaDrac vs Zul I'm going to respond to this just because I'm a huge fan of your commentaries. Watched the replay: Stuff to improve - Create a stronger first timing push. Your opponent this game was droning HARD. You can work out a lot of timing pushes that hit before mutalisks that can immediately end the game against super greedy zergs, while still punishing more conservative zerg openers (forcing them to build a lot of defense), and allowing you to expand on time with a very strong economy. PM me if you wanna steal some of mine - More constant scv production. After you took your first expo you had a big lull in scv production til about your third. He was way ahead of you in income because of this. This is probably the main reason you lost. - Don't stop harassing. You were good about this until your first major 2 base push got defeated, then you stopped. Hellions are cheap (minerals only) and can kill a lot of drones. Send out groups of 4 as scouts to punish undefended expos. - Unit composition. I think you had awesome composition until the final battle. You were floating a ton of minerals; minerals which could have been hellions and marines. With those you would have crushed his army and won the game. - Unit priority in battle: in your first major mech push, you had all your bio in front. I've found your number 1 priority should be to keep your marines alive. They do absurd DPS and hit both ground and air. - Upgrades. You were pretty good about this, but you really want stim a lot earlier, and + infantry attack is good to have early too. You had lots of spare gas for these. With stim I think you would have won at your first mech push. - Sensor towers: they are awesome. Use them. They give you huge peace of mind and discourage muta harass, doom drops, and nydus attacks. Thanks for the feedback, now that my energy has been drained (LOLOL RITE) I will definitely try to work on this stuff, gonna make another post-it for my monitor with this stuff. Update: Just laddered with these things in mind, things were going well, very high pressure baneling bust Zerg, (baneling busted, twice!!) which i survived, then countered with a single tank marauder-stim drop at his natural, took it out completely, then............ WINDOWS. AUTOMATIC. UPDATE. Fucking Christ. ON a pogo stick. Doing a fantastic Rodney Dangerfield impression. Needless to say, automatic update is off now. As for the tips, I think my play is already elevated. I would have lost to that guy legitimately a week ago. Sorry to hog the attention in another guy's thread.. I really like Yosho's stream a lot, great for terran play when I'm in between casting and GSL games. =)
^^ thanks for the compliment, glad you are doing better.
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On September 16 2010 23:58 infinity21 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2010 23:53 Wunder wrote:On September 16 2010 03:26 Vegasminion wrote:On September 16 2010 01:11 Wunder wrote:
Hi, I'm not sure if this question has been answered already, but what do you do against mass muta? And by mass muta I mean at least a good 30-35 that's constantly being reinforced. I've tried Thors/Marines but I just either can't get enough, get contained in my base, or try and move out and get nuked by banelings/slings. Have you had any experience dealing with this efficiently? Thanks! Well spread out thors really can be key, I do feel thors marine are the best it may be up to your micro and unit placement that need work. I faced a Zerg just now who went Mass Muta/Ling and I'm not entirely sure how many bases he was on, but he just kept going muta/ling and abusing my immobile thors. He didn't even magic box his mutas and I had about 6-7 thors and whenever I got a volley off it really tore through his pack, but he eventually starved me out and I couldn't do anything against it, do you have any suggestions for this? >< Go hellion/thor and (presumably) take your 3rd faster. Play defensively until you max out (don't forget upgrades) and push with your deathball.
Well you don't want to be defensive 100% as then they get the whole map and broodlords or ultras. It's safer to figure a time out when to push out. As in observing the replays you play and say ok; at this time when i grabbed my 3rd he's vulnerable so the moment i make it I push out. ETC.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On September 17 2010 01:51 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2010 23:58 infinity21 wrote:On September 16 2010 23:53 Wunder wrote:On September 16 2010 03:26 Vegasminion wrote:On September 16 2010 01:11 Wunder wrote:
Hi, I'm not sure if this question has been answered already, but what do you do against mass muta? And by mass muta I mean at least a good 30-35 that's constantly being reinforced. I've tried Thors/Marines but I just either can't get enough, get contained in my base, or try and move out and get nuked by banelings/slings. Have you had any experience dealing with this efficiently? Thanks! Well spread out thors really can be key, I do feel thors marine are the best it may be up to your micro and unit placement that need work. I faced a Zerg just now who went Mass Muta/Ling and I'm not entirely sure how many bases he was on, but he just kept going muta/ling and abusing my immobile thors. He didn't even magic box his mutas and I had about 6-7 thors and whenever I got a volley off it really tore through his pack, but he eventually starved me out and I couldn't do anything against it, do you have any suggestions for this? >< Go hellion/thor and (presumably) take your 3rd faster. Play defensively until you max out (don't forget upgrades) and push with your deathball. Well you don't want to be defensive 100% as then they get the whole map and broodlords or ultras. It's safer to figure a time out when to push out. As in observing the replays you play and say ok; at this time when i grabbed my 3rd he's vulnerable so the moment i make it I push out. ETC.
It doesn't matter if Zerg takes the whole map imo. But I do agree that you can do a timing push before brood lords, although it's not absolutely necessary as long as you have enough vikings.
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Stream is coming online - However I don't know for how long.
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Love your stream
Think you deserve to get featured
Kitelight <|
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Great stream, very helpful and tact with answering questions. Very fun to watch with a good sense of humor.
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Grreeeat Steam !!
I really hope you wanna share a Zerg so i might can learn something new ;D
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Your stream is awesome, keep up the good work. Glad you help out a lot of players, myself included!
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Agreed, very solid stream as a new Starcraft player i've learned a good amount about all races.
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He's a great teacher
The student will surpass the teacher, someday.
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Well, if the thread is open to all MUs...
I've got a question about ZvZ. On small maps or close positions, I think roach/hydra/infestor may be better than ling/baneling/muta. How do you play out ZvZ, and if you DO try roach/hydra/infestor, what are your opening timings?
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I believe that roach hydra infestor is incredibly stronger as the infestor can stop the mutalisk in it's tracks entirely. The roaches can take baneling damage while the hydras take down everything from a distance and i have a strategy of this i am uploading soon in the first page of this thread
it will be the 2nd replay pack.
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Really cool stream. Even though I am a mid level diamond protoss I enj0oy watching it. I like how you can clearly talk and play a high level game at the same time, I cannot do that.
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Hey yosho, been enjoying your stream today. I'm a pretty new player, and have a very elementary question regarding the correct way of making units attack. (!!)
Although i'm sure there are situational variants, what is the best "default" way of making a control group of units attack an enemy. I've been using right click to target individual units, but this method seems to suffer when is misclick terrain and just cause my units to move instead of attack. Is it best therefore to use an attack move, or is there another method that I am not aware of?
Sorry for such a newbie question, hopefully you can help me out Cheers
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Answered on stream; attack move very good it's what I use personally but with micro included. No question is too noob thanks for asking.
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Hey Yosho, what do you put your scroll sensitivity to?
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On September 17 2010 07:53 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
Hey Yosho, what do you put your scroll sensitivity to?
I use the default, but my windows scroll is rather low.
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What are some strong things protoss can do against terran? I struggle early game vs maurader/marine and maurader/ghost pushes.
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Update: 2 more replay packs have been added, 2nd is ladder games i lose a lot from cheese. Also a game vs LZgamer. and third I have a bunch of random versus zerg games to help the zerg players and show off my other races.
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On September 17 2010 07:56 CaterpillarSC2 wrote:
What are some strong things protoss can do against terran? I struggle early game vs maurader/marine and maurader/ghost pushes.
1 gate into a robo facility is very strong against marauders and be sure to have some zealots infront of your stalkers to take the damage.
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Stream is down for a few hours thanks everyone! we reached 120+ viewers.
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As terran u use sensors towers?
In tvt u open with 3rax or anything different from 1/1/1?
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On September 17 2010 08:00 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2010 07:56 CaterpillarSC2 wrote:
What are some strong things protoss can do against terran? I struggle early game vs maurader/marine and maurader/ghost pushes. 1 gate into a robo facility is very strong against marauders and be sure to have some zealots infront of your stalkers to take the damage.
This is sort of a followup question. How do you counter gates into robo? A balanced comp of zeal/stalker/immortals rape my M&M's (even with micro) and still roll me when i transition into MMG. Should I have ghosts ready during the first clash when I know they're going for Immortals?
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On September 17 2010 09:18 noD wrote:
As terran u use sensors towers?
In tvt u open with 3rax or anything different from 1/1/1?
I do use sensor towers but most of my builds are 1-1-1; however occasionally I go 2-1 for more marine support.
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On September 17 2010 09:22 SONofaGUN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2010 08:00 Vegasminion wrote:On September 17 2010 07:56 CaterpillarSC2 wrote:
What are some strong things protoss can do against terran? I struggle early game vs maurader/marine and maurader/ghost pushes. 1 gate into a robo facility is very strong against marauders and be sure to have some zealots infront of your stalkers to take the damage. This is sort of a followup question. How do you counter gates into robo? A balanced comp of zeal/stalker/immortals rape my M&M's (even with micro) and still roll me when i transition into MMG. Should I have ghosts ready during the first clash when I know they're going for Immortals?
I have ghosts by my 2nd push; my first is usually with 3 marauders and 2 marines. You want them fast, just not too fast. probably after the 2nd barracks is buildings.
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i have a question about 2vs2 ....
me and my friend are playing 2vs2 (im terran and he is protoss - we are pretty noobs)..
and we alwys seems to lose to early rushes and when we try to rush we lose...
any good rush that u can suggest us to try ?? (we tried marines + zealots and we lost )
im talking about early-mid game rush and not at the end of the game.
Thanks alot
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On September 17 2010 10:40 Dwight wrote:
i have a question about 2vs2 ....
me and my friend are playing 2vs2 (im terran and he is protoss - we are pretty noobs)..
and we alwys seems to lose to early rushes and when we try to rush we lose...
any good rush that u can suggest us to try ?? (we tried marines + zealots and we lost )
im talking about early-mid game rush and not at the end of the game.
Thanks alot
if you want to be super cheesy send a worker close to their base at the start, make a barracks then a gas get a tech lab and a reaper while he does the same with zealots.
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Mmm thank you for all the help! Love the Zerg replay packs, they've helped a lot. You should get featured or something.
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On September 17 2010 11:34 Almin wrote:
Mmm thank you for all the help! Love the Zerg replay packs, they've helped a lot. You should get featured or something.
Only cause you're in them 
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You should put up your replays with your commentary on youtube or something, the commentary you say during games helps a lot.
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On September 17 2010 06:17 Almin wrote:He's a great teacher The student will surpass the teacher, someday.
Ha ha you just may! keep practicing.
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On September 17 2010 12:53 Almin wrote:
You should put up your replays with your commentary on youtube or something, the commentary you say during games helps a lot.
I will when I get my computer fixed actually.
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What do you think of a BW style hellion/tank metal oriented strategy in tvp? I've been thinking about it a lot but I'm not sure how to go about "getting to" that point, since obviously void ray builds are a problem, and I also think phoenix play would be a real problem as well. I think an interesting aspect of it would be after the patch, I think a lot of toss will see tanks and think "oh hey tanks suck now versus zealots" and make a lot of zealots, playing into your hands with the hellions. I just don't know how to go about creating a robust build order to get there without losing to various 1 base plays. Also, once you "get to" that point, should it be played aggressively? Or more passively, like a siege FE into fast third expo? I guess that's map dependent.
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On September 17 2010 13:43 BigOleDonkey wrote:
What do you think of a BW style hellion/tank metal oriented strategy in tvp? I've been thinking about it a lot but I'm not sure how to go about "getting to" that point, since obviously void ray builds are a problem, and I also think phoenix play would be a real problem as well. I think an interesting aspect of it would be after the patch, I think a lot of toss will see tanks and think "oh hey tanks suck now versus zealots" and make a lot of zealots, playing into your hands with the hellions. I just don't know how to go about creating a robust build order to get there without losing to various 1 base plays.
I have tried going from a 2 racks fast expand into 3 racks ghost and viking push then when they switch to templar I trade out al addons with factories and go hellion / tank viking. it works great on occasion.
Still refining it all though.
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The link you put in leads to a question about 1-1-1.
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what do you do against an army of stalker and zealot with a fast colusses? I seem to have problems with this build i place down a pdd but the zealot and colusses destroy my marines leaving my viking or banshee to get owned by the stalkers?
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Hmm this build ; may - have potential. I will look into it and maybe practice it in my next stream; however it is very weak to mass tanks, you will not be able to deny a turtle terran unless you have medivacs of yourself, which in reality is bad because he has air control. I feel like this build could easily lose unless you go for some fast expand play.
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On September 17 2010 15:37 iamalegitnoob wrote:
what do you do against an army of stalker and zealot with a fast colusses? I seem to have problems with this build i place down a pdd but the zealot and colusses destroy my marines leaving my viking or banshee to get owned by the stalkers?
Against collasai try to get a lot of marauders, for every collasai get 2 vikings.
Stim attack move back stim attack move back for the zealots and collasai. also spread your units out. Combine these tactics with the point defense drone and you will get him.
Collasai are the type of unit you can 1a into an army and do ok without micro. however you need to do more micro then the collasai in order to beat it.
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^^ The most potential for the build I believe is vs Zerg, 2 shotting hydras and 3 shotting Muta's for 50 and 75 energy respectively is powerful imo.
Even against Tanks, i believe a early push before a terran player reaches critical mass of tanks against this build will effective.
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On September 17 2010 15:53 BadStigma wrote:
^^ The most potential for the build I believe is vs Zerg, 2 shotting hydras and 3 shotting Muta's for 50 and 75 energy respectively is powerful imo.
Even against Tanks, i believe a early push before a terran player reaches critical mass of tanks against this build will effective.
It may be possible, only real way to tell is to play with it.
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^^ The most potential for the build I believe is vs Zerg, 2 shotting hydras and 3 shotting Muta's for 50 and 75 energy respectively is powerful imo.
Even against Tanks, i believe a early push before a terran player reaches critical mass of tanks against this build will effective.
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On September 17 2010 16:03 BadStigma wrote:
^^ The most potential for the build I believe is vs Zerg, 2 shotting hydras and 3 shotting Muta's for 50 and 75 energy respectively is powerful imo.
Even against Tanks, i believe a early push before a terran player reaches critical mass of tanks against this build will effective.
speedling / bane ling would really counter this; so would a critical number of mutalisks, eventually you will get over run.
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Just wanna say thx for the help and fast feedback Vegasminion. To flip it around a bit. What is your take on terran race as a whole. Board question i know but if there are any specific points that you have thought of id like to hear it.
On super fast reaper rush, what are your views on the opportunity cost of building a fast reaper vs the sacrifice in workers/lost income?
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Thanks for watching everyone! i've streamed over 10 hours today and i need some sleep lol. You got to watch me play random at a 1500 level and the replays will most likely be added tomorrow to the site. Questions were asked on stream so a lot of you missed it but it was a blast. Peace!
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Iam downloading the reps now, looking forward to see them!
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great stream. could you make a replay pack with the different oppenings (for Terran)?
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What is the usual time you stream? Somehow I always seem to miss it 
(I know you stream alot, just wanna make sure it's not when I'm asleep, as in that case i'd have to swap around day and night)
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hey yoshoo im a 1200 pts diamond protoss player and id like help on how to scout the basnhee/rines/raven all in off 1 base and what is a good counter to it... ive tried some high temps with feedback but it set me behind too much to get there and even when i feedback the PDD/raven and some banshee the marines roll me
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On September 17 2010 21:44 dellesh1ruH wrote:
Iam downloading the reps now, looking forward to see them!
Enjoy my friend!
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On September 18 2010 00:23 Buhmann wrote:
great stream. could you make a replay pack with the different oppenings (for Terran)?
The 2nd replay pack has very many terran openings.
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On September 18 2010 01:54 Saltz wrote:What is the usual time you stream? Somehow I always seem to miss it (I know you stream alot, just wanna make sure it's not when I'm asleep, as in that case i'd have to swap around day and night)
It is very random until I can find the money to fix my computer, i have to stream off my brothers.
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On September 18 2010 01:58 mark05 wrote:
hey yoshoo im a 1200 pts diamond protoss player and id like help on how to scout the basnhee/rines/raven all in off 1 base and what is a good counter to it... ive tried some high temps with feedback but it set me behind too much to get there and even when i feedback the PDD/raven and some banshee the marines roll me
With banshee rine raven you need to scout 2 starports and that is the hint. The actual counter is pheonix zealot stalker sentry. Engage him away from your base so he has to point defense drone earlier and then back up.
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Okay, fair enough. Thanks alot for the replay packages btw, nice to watch
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No worries stream is coming online soon.
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how do you a fast banshee (double banshee + cloak) opening ?
13 gas or 12 gas ?
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you can get 11 gas then barracks, also a 2nd gas after barracks is done.
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what should i do if my opp is going mass zealots + void rays and I'm toss
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Strats have worked wonderfully! Thanks for them! Keep them coming!
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On September 18 2010 10:51 aztrorisk wrote:
what should i do if my opp is going mass zealots + void rays and I'm toss
collasai and stalker would do pretty good versus this. So would zealot stalker yourself with a few sentries to forcefield and make his zealots useless.
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On September 18 2010 13:51 Marcato wrote:
Strats have worked wonderfully! Thanks for them! Keep them coming!
Thanks for watching! I'm glad you are getting lots of help!
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Update: On muscle relaxers; stream coming up.
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I'm getting really frustrated :<
How do you deal with mass zealot + ht? I usually have a significant amount of marauders, marines, sometimes medivacs and tanks + ghosts, occasional hellions if i remember to build them. I try to emp a lot and usually I do hit a few templars, but even then zealots rip me apart. I try to kite, but it's usually pointless as chargelots kill me anyway I try to move back when the storm hits me of course, but still chargelots kill me! I have no problems with collosi, stalkers, nothing except those goddamn zealots.
Is this a matter of bad unit composition? Should i go pure hellion? Or maybe ravens with seeker? But i guess feedback will deny any attempts of dropping the missile. I have tried to find some pro replays, but found none where protoss would use such unit composition.
What is the key except for outmacroing the opponent? I'm ~900dia if it matters. Thanks for help in advance.
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On September 19 2010 01:53 jimee wrote:
I'm getting really frustrated :<
How do you deal with mass zealot + ht? I usually have a significant amount of marauders, marines, sometimes medivacs and tanks + ghosts, occasional hellions if i remember to build them. I try to emp a lot and usually I do hit a few templars, but even then zealots rip me apart. I try to kite, but it's usually pointless as chargelots kill me anyway I try to move back when the storm hits me of course, but still chargelots kill me! I have no problems with collosi, stalkers, nothing except those goddamn zealots.
Is this a matter of bad unit composition? Should i go pure hellion? Or maybe ravens with seeker? But i guess feedback will deny any attempts of dropping the missile. I have tried to find some pro replays, but found none where protoss would use such unit composition.
What is the key except for outmacroing the opponent? I'm ~900dia if it matters. Thanks for help in advance.
you can kite zealots with stim and concussive shells if you time it right, other then that you can try blue flame hellions with your unit mix.
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Hello Yosho,
First of all, thank you for the thread. Discussing with you is very helpful and fun.
I watched your replays,
In a replay called 'map4' you play terran versus StaineD (protoss). on quandrant delta. he goes 6 gate, expand, and just out macro you.
Terrans are so slow builing units... you should construct barracks, then add the laboratory, etc... everytime I loss against high platine toss is when they out macro me with a mixed army of zelotes, stalkers, sentries and immortals. nothing I can do. If I go siege, immortals take all the damage. Ghosts ? too expensive but can be discussed.
I'm glad that the patch will slow a little bit the warp gates and the zelote construction, but still they can build units very fast.
What can we do against this fast-macro build as terrans ? and as zergs ?
What are your principal mistakes in this game you played against StaineD which costs you the game ?
Thanks
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Some principal mistakes was that at one of his pushes I didn't have ghosts, this was when I had a massive bio ball and the map was nearly split in half. If i even got 1 great emp there I would have been able to stream roll his units, we can't "outproduce" but we have gimmicks.
Gimmicks like emp or burrowed roaches. Each race including protoss needs their niche that makes them work. Ghosts are so great and forgetting to add one to my massive push was a bad idea.
As for defending it as zerg you need a great balance of when to expo; when to make units; which upgrades to get. As I've been playing zerg a lot lately I realize that zerg is the least forgiving for all these.
I am looking forward to the patch as well as they mostly nurf the terran and protoss races which I feel needed playing all 3.
Another problem is that he did snipe a few expo's and got his up earlier then mine so he did out macro me that game.
Thanks for the compliments I hope you have fun and watch the stream! (It's coming online now).
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dang it looks like you had a pretty brutal downswing yesterday hehe >B^)
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He just taught me so many different cool strats as Zerg...appreciate it Yosho. Definitely a standup guy.
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Just wanna say thanks for the replay pack, especially the TvT replays which are awesome possum.
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Does your wife play starcraft too? I hear her commenting in the background
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Very interesting stream to watch, hopefully you get featured in time for your neck to heal! Learning alot as a Starcraft noob.
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Shoutout to Yosho for being the shit!
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Thanks for the enjoyable streams Yosho and your constant feedback to your viewers. Would love to see your stream get featured sometime in the future. =D
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Late in a game, my opponent went stalker, colossus, and immortal.
What kind of unit mix for Terran should I have done? Now that I think about it, I'm leaning towards battlecruiser.
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I like battlecruisers as a support for a bioball... a bioball with 2 battlecruisers, the stalkers or muta will focus the battlecruiser. he can take so much damage while you annihilate his army with your stim !
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How do you deal with storms lategame TvP?
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On September 19 2010 23:10 Bagi wrote:
How do you deal with storms lategame TvP?
I would so love to know this.
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On September 19 2010 16:43 kyt wrote:
Late in a game, my opponent went stalker, colossus, and immortal.
What kind of unit mix for Terran should I have done? Now that I think about it, I'm leaning towards battlecruiser.
a mix of emp vikings and tanks + bio works well too.
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On September 20 2010 00:08 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 23:10 Bagi wrote:
How do you deal with storms lategame TvP? I would so love to know this.
Ghost EMP totally owns HT's.
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yes...ghosts are so much easier to micro with EMP than HTs with feedback since EMP is an aoe spell
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On September 20 2010 00:08 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 23:10 Bagi wrote:
How do you deal with storms lategame TvP? I would so love to know this.
Emp, positioning. It's usually followed by lots of zealots so sometimes I get blue flame hellions. EMP vs storm and feedback is a huge micro war.
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On September 20 2010 01:59 motus wrote:
yes...ghosts are so much easier to micro with EMP than HTs with feedback since EMP is an aoe spell
I can agree to this.
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Stream is coming online -
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It seems like you switch building attachments very quickly. Maybe it is poort stream quality, but I don't evey see you select the building and they seem to launch simultaneously. How do you do this so fast?
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On September 20 2010 02:48 bmoneyAK wrote:
It seems like you switch building attachments very quickly. Maybe it is poort stream quality, but I don't evey see you select the building and they seem to launch simultaneously. How do you do this so fast?
I use L and I am a very fast player; other then that I can't think of what you mean.
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Hello Yosho and thanks for making this thread!
My question is how many unit producing structures do you have for 2 / 3 / 4 basses? I find my self either getting money starved with too many buildings or having 700 gas and 3000 minerals. I usualy play bio, but if you could post the answer to cover both mech and bio production buildings that would be great!
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5 barracks - no addons, 3 barracks 3 addons, 3 barracks no addons - 1 factory - 1 starport.
2 factories 2 addons 1 barracks.
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How do you lose with marine banshee raven vs P?
Do you actually lose?
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On September 20 2010 07:32 gr8ape wrote:
How do you lose with marine banshee raven vs P?
Do you actually lose?
Don't give them time to get pheonix or templars, they can turn the tide fast.
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Brilliant stream Yosho, keep up the great work man, I love it and hope it gets featured!
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Love the stream man. Awesome work.
What is a good TvT strategy that doesn't turn into a tank stalemate?
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Great stream you have there.
I got a question, in zvt, when you FE, how do you decide to counter early harrassment from T? When do you use spine crawlers? When do you use speedlings? When do you use roachs? or the combine?
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Yo bro started watching you stream for the past couple of days, Love it. You have shown some pretty nice strats and counters it has helped me go form Silver to Gold Keep up the Good work =D
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Hey, about half a week since I started watching your stream, I saw a post of yours in the official b.net forums and came to this site to see what's up, I haven't played multiplayer that much yet, but made it into the platinum league on 1v1 and I'm working my way up. Thanks for the stream Yosho, hopefully one day I will be half as good as you are. (Great zerg play btw)
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Been watching yosho for about a week and have allrdy got to platnium. This guy is great and has a very good attitude, win or lose. Awsome stream thx Yosho !
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Yo,
Very nice knowledge and skills ! So I have a question : how in the middle game do you counter (as a T) a protoss which has a big army and templars and know how to fedback dropship and storm your bioball.
I use thors marines marauders and some vicking along with the medifvac but the protoss I played against dont use fedback. I think to turttle and bunker ( with good positionning and improved capacity) and 3 expand, while droping marauders and banshee harass is nice ^^
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I am a 1200 diamond terran, whats a solid tvt and tvz build. I usually do some sort of repear opening vs zerg and i dont know how to transition too well. Also against terran, most my builds revolve around early bahsee's, are there any nice early pushes that successfully take a fast expo that you like to use?
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Hey Yosho how u doin?
just gotta say im loving ur stream, always fun and entertaining to watch. been learning some nice tactics off of ur stream and im having a good laugh at the diamond guys getting 6pooled! ofc all other games are nice to watch too!
keep up the nice work
ps: loving that piano music <3
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Will answer them all after the stream goes down, 10 hours + and counting! Woot! Covering zerg all day.
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Hi Yosho,
Love the stream, I enjoy the practice matches between you and Trump (how I found out about you). Keep up the good work! Makes me kinda want to play random..
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On September 20 2010 08:50 canikizu wrote:
Great stream you have there.
I got a question, in zvt, when you FE, how do you decide to counter early harrassment from T? When do you use spine crawlers? When do you use speedlings? When do you use roachs? or the combine?
Zergling > reaper > Roaches > Marauders > zergling. > Hellion > Roaches. I try to get a mix of both if they are mixing both. I prefer zerglings though.
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On September 20 2010 09:20 Tonyoh wrote:
Yo,
Very nice knowledge and skills ! So I have a question : how in the middle game do you counter (as a T) a protoss which has a big army and templars and know how to fedback dropship and storm your bioball.
I use thors marines marauders and some vicking along with the medifvac but the protoss I played against dont use fedback. I think to turttle and bunker ( with good positionning and improved capacity) and 3 expand, while droping marauders and banshee harass is nice ^^
You need ghosts to counter templars, it's a massive micro fest. However ghost is the perfect counter for templars.
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On September 20 2010 09:29 Sparkxxx wrote:
I am a 1200 diamond terran, whats a solid tvt and tvz build. I usually do some sort of repear opening vs zerg and i dont know how to transition too well. Also against terran, most my builds revolve around early bahsee's, are there any nice early pushes that successfully take a fast expo that you like to use?
Tvt I like the 1-1-1 opening very well, it's incredibly standard. As for tvz reaper 5 racks or pre igniter hellion drops, maybe reactor hellion harass. Another fun thing is combine reapers marines and marauders then add medivacs and micro your way to victory.
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On September 20 2010 10:11 Ascalon wrote:
Hey Yosho how u doin?
just gotta say im loving ur stream, always fun and entertaining to watch. been learning some nice tactics off of ur stream and im having a good laugh at the diamond guys getting 6pooled! ofc all other games are nice to watch too!
keep up the nice work
ps: loving that piano music <3
Haha thanks!!
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Update: Zerg replay pack may be uploaded sometime soon for all you zerg players who wish to learn some of my strategies.
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Good job Yosho, keep it up. We really appreciate the help and advice (forums + stream), hope you don't quit on us!. More Power.
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On September 20 2010 16:45 Roniacz wrote:
Good job Yosho, keep it up. We really appreciate the help and advice (forums + stream), hope you don't quit on us!. More Power.
Thank you :D
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Update: Yosho - A light take on things -
As many people continue learning the strategy of the game and progress that we have made so far and the ratings go up while the more distinguished players stand out. Players such like Huk and silver, we learn many things from a 1 point of view a take from every race and position. realcun's map read, all the pro's being asked about balance from their point of view.
I myself don't like to discuss much balance myself so i will talk about how improving the fundamentals of each race as I continue to play it.
As most of you know recently I hurt my neck and decided to practice more of races and let my rating tank so that when i am healed I simply rise again. However I have decided to not rise as terran, for when I played it i went from 500-1500 in only a matter of 2 weeks and found it rather easy after learning the build orders that are so far out there.
Most of the terran mechanics I find is very friendly; maybe not so much after the patch but the giant mule call down is powerful and the ability to mass turtle can stop those non aggressive players in their tracks. A mass turtle strategy can easily get you into diamond as people feel threatened by a defensive terran and have the urge to attack.
I am by no way saying terran is easy oh no, I am saying that terran is mostly about build orders and positioning. If the zerg can't get a surround we grow that much stronger. If the protoss are forced into a funnel concave we usually win the early game out right.
It isn't until collasai; storm; emp; medivacs come into play that micro is more so needed to climb higher in the ratings. The better you know how to get to these places and how to use these units the higher you will climb.
from my protoss point of view I have found that if the terran out techs me to one of these things such as massive siege tanks; emp; medivacs and I don't have enough counter tech to stop it, I will die. Even a mass bio army is so strong.
My take is that eventually the build orders will refine to one of three types of strategies.
1- the tech strat, trying to tech fast and hard to things like ravens.
2- the mass expansions, trying to mass out macro the enemy into submission. overwhelming the tech because of the limited amount of units.
3- the constant cheese or harrasment. very aggressive style play as you always try to cripple your opponent into submission.
These strategies are very dominant today. each can counter each other if played right but it comes down to these things. Finding out a players playstyle will show you what these things are and give you a large advantage as most people stick to what they know.
For example: I am a mass expander - I take many bases and force a giant macro battle that will usually take the win for me while I react to scouting information.
Trump: is a tech man he likes to have all sorts of tech and can be very aggressive but not unless he has tech to match it like tanks; vikings; medivacs.
Painuser: is a tech
TLO: is the aggressor
Which are you?
I haven't mentioned zerg because it's a whole different ball play.
Zerg is more reactionary and you have to combine all of these plays. Zerg is the balance between every one of them.
They have to mass expand; Be very aggressive; macro up giant armies and balancing the economy with it. on top of that part of our macro play is creep. We need a lot of it.
(note: I think zerg need a unit that suicides on the ground and spreads creep for a time period)
If zerg lacks in expansions they die very fast as their macro HAS to be superior to every race or they stand no chance in the units battles. For every races units are stronger zerg need more of them. It is easier for the other races to tech as zerg can't just stay on limited bases.
Do take note that it is not impossible for the player to keep up. But zerg takes more... harmony? More synchronization for what they need to do. Ying and yang between drones and fighting units.
The difference between a terran 1,000 and 1500 is build orders and multi tasking.
the difference between a protoss 1,000 and 1500 is knowing other strategies then 4 gate and positioning / when to be agressive.
the difference between zerg 1,000 and 1500 is harmony.
I am not saying that all toss 4 gate or all terrans are skill less. I am saying that they play a lot in the same. I reached 1500 with both protoss and terran refining build orders, macro'ing better, countering at the right times and positioning.
However with zerg I find that including all these is one element that makes it unable for most players to switch to zerg. Players who admit they would like to try it but feel like it's a lot harder to play the zerg style, for many pro's have said it and admit that zerg macro is just a whole new game.
With my rankings my zerg is at 1200-1300. Refining my harmony. It is easily my hardest race to learn. They are not underpowered they are just under learned. Some balance issues will probably be seen in the future though.
This little thought train is meant to show you how the playstyles are different. Maybe help people pick a race. Show you the different types of strategies that may fit your type and what type your friends are so you can defeat them. It's not a balance topic. It's just talking about the playstyles we all enjoy.
If you like to be strong with limited units, terran.
If you like to have a mass area of effect type units. Protoss. (collasai; storm; forcefield)
They can also be poweful with limited units but the styles are a little different.
Terran and protoss are more of a giant micro fest between the races.
If you want harmony and being everywhere at once with more of a mass type thought train, zerg.
I think a lot of this may change when we see larger maps such as ICCUP maps ( my favorites ).
However on blizzard maps and races. these are my thoughts.
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Hello,
first just want to say thanks for the help and keep it up!
I am a ~800 Diamond Terran player so i know the basics(builds counters etc etc) but wouldnt consider myself good at all.
I just had a few questions regarding specific matchups.
TvP
In TVP I like to hit at around 70-80 supply, just before they tech to anything that will cause me a lot of problems unless they go early tech or something...so usually it'll be a mix of lots/stalkers/sentrys maybe 1-2 immortals just coming out. As long as I dont miss micro hard core I can take on their army fairly easily. My question is:
1. What upgrades should I get for my ground unit? and should I go 1st rax reactor or tech?
Really it comes down to concussive, marine hp, stim, engineering bay upgrades and I always get siege mode. Usually b y the time i hit I can have 2 upgrades. So which would you do? I like to get marine hp since I go reactor on my first rax so my marine count is a lot more ,I also like it to deal with void rays just in case.
2. What build should you go to ensure no early rush? Mass zealot etC?
I usually go reactor on first rax and tech on 2nd. So usually if there is a mass zealot rush (inbetween the time my first tank comes out) I sometimes have trouble defending their push. I block with 2supply 1 rax.
TvZ
1. Again if I see a standard zerg opening my first hit comes a bit earlier especialyl if they FE, maybe around 45-50 supply. So again what upgrades should I focus on for infantry? I always go siege and have been going marine HP to deal with any fast mutas. Would stim be a better option? I usually start off with 2 rax 1 fac and starport as I push out. Would it be better to go 2fac (tanks/hellions) + 1 rax(reactoR)?
2. Do you always block with 1rax 1fac?
TvT
1This matchup is something I have to work on. Any general tips? It always turns into a viking/tank army. Do you get a lot of thors in your army composition when it gets late? Do you do a lot of drops? Use ghosts?
Thanks for your help!
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Hi,
i know you opened up the thread to all matchups so i have a zerg question... i feel like starcraft, like poker, the aggressor is usually in the better position... but how can zerg be aggressive without pooling 6-8? aggression means tier 1/1.5 units but the few times i tried the 5 roach rush terrans usually have maruaders and by the time i break the supply depot, i don't have enough to harass... so the only thing that's worked for me is the baneling bust... is there any other way to be aggressive?
just to give you some background, i've used to always fe on every map... but then learned that small maps i can't fight zealots with a fe... and reapers/bunkers make fe hard too... so i started one basing and getting roaches to counter reapers and zealot pressure with some limited success.. but recently i've found 14gas, 14 pool into baneling bust to be super effective and have reached my highest point total ever (1000+ dia), including a 10 game win streak...
i'm not too familiar with streaming but would love to watch your zerg play... but do you have other ways to be aggressive besides baneling busting? and what do you do if the bust fails? or should you never be in that position, meaning by scouting, if you see it's bust proof, don't even make banelings even though you sunk money into a nest? but then in that case, how do you be aggressive? thanks for answering!
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My first question dealing with the PvT match up is, my fav opener at the moment is a 1 gate core to 3 gate + expo. Thus I can have a warpgate army defend my expo. As the expo goes up, I get a robo for the obs and then immortals. How viable/strong is this opening? Generally speaking my biggest weakness comes right my expo finishes, if the Terran pushes, or before i get my obs out, (if say the terran chooses banshee cloak harass). I suppose my question is, how likely am I to fall to one or both of these strats, and is there any counter measure I can do to protect myself from them? (I prefer not to blindly hope the Terran does not go cloak banshee).
>> Response from Yosho: <<
The fast expand build is great on 4 player maps; very powerful. I would not recommend it as much on 2 player maps and getting a fast robo would be there in time for the banshee's. AS for the push the distance is what helps you there. This is why you want to be on a 4 player map and semi far away; the time it takes to get to your base can mean you having enough units to defend it.
The build is very powerful if not scouted. If the terran goes fast expand as well; expand after you see it. try to stay 1 base ahead and macro well enough to survive.
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On September 21 2010 03:06 CrayonKing wrote:
Hello,
first just want to say thanks for the help and keep it up!
I am a ~800 Diamond Terran player so i know the basics(builds counters etc etc) but wouldnt consider myself good at all.
I just had a few questions regarding specific matchups.
TvP
In TVP I like to hit at around 70-80 supply, just before they tech to anything that will cause me a lot of problems unless they go early tech or something...so usually it'll be a mix of lots/stalkers/sentrys maybe 1-2 immortals just coming out. As long as I dont miss micro hard core I can take on their army fairly easily. My question is:
1. What upgrades should I get for my ground unit? and should I go 1st rax reactor or tech?
Really it comes down to concussive, marine hp, stim, engineering bay upgrades and I always get siege mode. Usually b y the time i hit I can have 2 upgrades. So which would you do? I like to get marine hp since I go reactor on my first rax so my marine count is a lot more ,I also like it to deal with void rays just in case.
2. What build should you go to ensure no early rush? Mass zealot etC?
I usually go reactor on first rax and tech on 2nd. So usually if there is a mass zealot rush (inbetween the time my first tank comes out) I sometimes have trouble defending their push. I block with 2supply 1 rax.
TvZ
1. Again if I see a standard zerg opening my first hit comes a bit earlier especialyl if they FE, maybe around 45-50 supply. So again what upgrades should I focus on for infantry? I always go siege and have been going marine HP to deal with any fast mutas. Would stim be a better option? I usually start off with 2 rax 1 fac and starport as I push out. Would it be better to go 2fac (tanks/hellions) + 1 rax(reactoR)?
2. Do you always block with 1rax 1fac?
TvT
1This matchup is something I have to work on. Any general tips? It always turns into a viking/tank army. Do you get a lot of thors in your army composition when it gets late? Do you do a lot of drops? Use ghosts?
Thanks for your help!
TvP
1. reactor if being aggressive with more marines and using marauders for slow. (gets more units)
lab if you want stim faster or more marauders. (more over all army health)
2. drop a bunker and wall off. 2 bunkers if needed.
TvZ
1.Watch out for banelings. (if 2 fac add a thor and some marines, feels stronger early game weaker late.)
TvT. I use the standard 1-1-1 and out manuever my opponent. Some rushes will kill you fast though so make sure to have a raven and either fast siege or a bunker up at your front to defend pushes. I go marine / tank / vikings. Sometimes marauders. I also do drops yes.
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On September 21 2010 03:42 Warbreaker wrote:
Hi,
i know you opened up the thread to all matchups so i have a zerg question... i feel like starcraft, like poker, the aggressor is usually in the better position... but how can zerg be aggressive without pooling 6-8? aggression means tier 1/1.5 units but the few times i tried the 5 roach rush terrans usually have maruaders and by the time i break the supply depot, i don't have enough to harass... so the only thing that's worked for me is the baneling bust... is there any other way to be aggressive?
just to give you some background, i've used to always fe on every map... but then learned that small maps i can't fight zealots with a fe... and reapers/bunkers make fe hard too... so i started one basing and getting roaches to counter reapers and zealot pressure with some limited success.. but recently i've found 14gas, 14 pool into baneling bust to be super effective and have reached my highest point total ever (1000+ dia), including a 10 game win streak...
i'm not too familiar with streaming but would love to watch your zerg play... but do you have other ways to be aggressive besides baneling busting? and what do you do if the bust fails? or should you never be in that position, meaning by scouting, if you see it's bust proof, don't even make banelings even though you sunk money into a nest? but then in that case, how do you be aggressive? thanks for answering!
Sometimes I get a 10 pool before my 2nd overlord and get 6 lings out to stop rushes then go into an economy build. I also get speed and slowly add lings as they are useful to any ground push. I also recommend getting a 2nd queen on smaller maps to stop void rays and banshee's. Don't worry about pushing into the base as long as they can't expand. However if you see an opening to finish him, take it.
When I find the money for a new computer I will try to make vods for people. Even if you make banelings save them for later, get burrow and burrow them outside their base. blow them up when they walk over. Banelings will be useful through out the matchup. As for aggressive, build a better economy while he turtles and get some units out, prepare to surround him everytime he pushes out and keep him locked up. The more you expand the more aggressive he has to be.
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How the heck do you push when playing tank-viking vs tank viking?
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On September 21 2010 07:32 Antisocialmunky wrote:
How the heck do you push when playing tank-viking vs tank viking?
Air control, tanks can shoot farther then they can see. So if you slowly edge forward with air control you can shoot tanks that can't shoot back unless they scan.
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I'm sad to report such news but there will be no featured stream as of yet.
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That's... shocking, tbh.
Who has a featured stream?
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I am a strong macro terran who likes to just turtle up and then expand like crazy.
I struggle against toss all in 4 gate. I will wall off with 1 bunk and two depots and then if i spend the 400 on an expo, i get pushed and get crushed. how do you counter 4 gate all in?
also, alot of protoss will go 3 or 4 gate robo, and then expand and not make as many units.
how do you counter the toss when they do this
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Hi, I have just one and simple question:
I have been reading your post and i am agree in most of the things you say in #1, I am wondering if you answer zerg' s player questions. Just in case, Ill try.
In #1 you talked about some kind of harmony and I understand very well what you wanted to say.
I want you to give me some specific tips to know the exact moments to make drones or attacking units. I think that this is the key to be a good zerg player. Can you give me some tip?
Thanks. fyi i am 700+ Zerg
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On September 21 2010 12:35 OneEurope wrote:
I am a strong macro terran who likes to just turtle up and then expand like crazy.
I struggle against toss all in 4 gate. I will wall off with 1 bunk and two depots and then if i spend the 400 on an expo, i get pushed and get crushed. how do you counter 4 gate all in?
also, alot of protoss will go 3 or 4 gate robo, and then expand and not make as many units.
how do you counter the toss when they do this
Emp would be great and placing bunkers outside your base while getting in those before the expo helps secure it.
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On September 21 2010 18:03 ArKLaWL wrote:
Hi, I have just one and simple question:
I have been reading your post and i am agree in most of the things you say in #1, I am wondering if you answer zerg' s player questions. Just in case, Ill try.
In #1 you talked about some kind of harmony and I understand very well what you wanted to say.
I want you to give me some specific tips to know the exact moments to make drones or attacking units. I think that this is the key to be a good zerg player. Can you give me some tip?
Thanks. fyi i am 700+ Zerg
Some tips are don't make drones if you are expecting a massive attack. if you do make 1 or 2 maximum. Scout aggresive as it can be the key to winning or losing. Pick where you fight carefully.
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On September 14 2010 01:48 Vegasminion wrote:
Hello everyone I am Yosho,
Hi, can you please upload your packs to a not-so-limited file hosting service, such as mediafire.com? Currently Megaupload says I hit the limit.
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On September 21 2010 22:19 Strajder wrote:Hi, can you please upload your packs to a not-so-limited file hosting service, such as mediafire.com? Currently Megaupload says I hit the limit.
Which websites would better fit a non limit download?
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Working on my computer now, may expect a near full time stream! (fixing it as we speak)
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Well written analysis on playstyle. You clearly have a deep understanding of the game, and even so, it makes me realize how truly deep the hole can go.
Makes me want to "know" the game, rather than just to "win" it, because it can be mutually exclusive for some.
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For 2v2 as terran with a protoss ally, what basic build order should I use as my base? I want to go the same early game build every game and learn how to tweak it accordingly over the course of many games.
I'm currently doing 2 rax orbital but i'm not so sure it's the best one. Any tips? Please be specific when giving the build so I can copy it easily :D
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I heard there is a repair move command similiar to attack move. i havent figured out how to do it, how do you do it?
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On September 22 2010 03:13 Vegasminion wrote:Which websites would better fit a non limit download?
I mentioned mediafire.com, because I know of it, but I'm sure there are other sites that don't limit the download as megaupload does.
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On September 22 2010 20:14 welcomerain wrote:
Well written analysis on playstyle. You clearly have a deep understanding of the game, and even so, it makes me realize how truly deep the hole can go.
Makes me want to "know" the game, rather than just to "win" it, because it can be mutually exclusive for some.
Knowing the game improves your chances to win as well.
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On September 22 2010 21:45 Patriot.dlk wrote:
For 2v2 as terran with a protoss ally, what basic build order should I use as my base? I want to go the same early game build every game and learn how to tweak it accordingly over the course of many games.
I'm currently doing 2 rax orbital but i'm not so sure it's the best one. Any tips? Please be specific when giving the build so I can copy it easily :D
To prevent cheese;
Wall off-
9 barracks
10 supply depo,
11 gas.
13-14 orbital
20 barracks
21 reactor
21 tech lab
22 bunker
25 stim
keep producing units and sacrifice bunker when ready to move out. you want marauders / marines.
35, add either a - Ghost acadamy or factory depending on choice of tech, GL!
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On September 22 2010 23:48 OneEurope wrote:
I heard there is a repair move command similiar to attack move. i havent figured out how to do it, how do you do it?
Right click on the repair icon and it will auto repair, simply attack move with it in your main army and it will auto repair all units. OR click auto repair and right click on the unit you want it to follow.
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On September 23 2010 00:44 Strajder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 03:13 Vegasminion wrote:Which websites would better fit a non limit download? I mentioned mediafire.com, because I know of it, but I'm sure there are other sites that don't limit the download as megaupload does.
I will look into it, trying to fix streaming on my personal computer at the moment.
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Stream is coming online for testing. ( NO microphone at the moment )
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On September 23 2010 02:08 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 23:48 OneEurope wrote:
I heard there is a repair move command similiar to attack move. i havent figured out how to do it, how do you do it? Right click on the repair icon and it will auto repair, simply attack move with it in your main army and it will auto repair all units. OR click auto repair and right click on the unit you want it to follow.
You are better off manually repairing if you have hellions in the mix if you are say doing hellion/Thor. The SCVs will pin them in place and fail will ensue.
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On September 23 2010 02:12 Antisocialmunky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 02:08 Vegasminion wrote:On September 22 2010 23:48 OneEurope wrote:
I heard there is a repair move command similiar to attack move. i havent figured out how to do it, how do you do it? Right click on the repair icon and it will auto repair, simply attack move with it in your main army and it will auto repair all units. OR click auto repair and right click on the unit you want it to follow. You are better off manually repairing if you have hellions in the mix if you are say doing hellion/Thor. The SCVs will pin them in place and fail will ensue.
Would be hard to do in the middle of a battle, probably would be best to run infantry from the banelings that are usually accompanied with your need for hellions.
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HI Yosho,
I watched a few of your replays, and they have been really helpful. Is there a general rule of thumb of when you would recommend when you should harass initially with 1 Tank 1 V and rines in a TVT?
The reason I'm asking is because I practice with my friend a lot and he usually bioballs with vikings, and usually I can't get enough units to stop his push.
Also would u still recommend tanks after the recent nerf?
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I do still recommend tanks but a bio build is also powerful, you attack when you think you can harass him or do some damage without taking too much yourself. scouting is the key to this.
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Hi,
I'm wondering how you handle your macro when your doing multi attacks w/ micro I just can't handle microing 2/3 attacks as well as macro any ideas on how to handle it or how you handle it :O??
Regards,
Tidgney
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Your videos have helped me out so much Yosho, I'm finally a 1000 point Diamond Zerg player, with the help from you. Thank you.
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The build I got for 2v2 is doing quite great. Finally got the #1 spot back and it also did very well in 3v3. I would like some feedback on this game btw:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/860312/9rax2.SC2Replay
if you have time for this focus on me (Kakakarl). I'm trying to be offensive early to force chrono on gate and pick off a probe but since I suck I failed to do so + didn't manage my base well while doing it. (practice here is obviously needed) But what else did I do wrong?
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On September 24 2010 02:46 Tidgney wrote:
Hi,
I'm wondering how you handle your macro when your doing multi attacks w/ micro I just can't handle microing 2/3 attacks as well as macro any ideas on how to handle it or how you handle it :O??
Regards,
Tidgney
I try to practice speed and lots of hotkeys for groups. helps me greatly. just try to be faster in general.
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On September 24 2010 06:58 Patriot.dlk wrote:The build I got for 2v2 is doing quite great. Finally got the #1 spot back and it also did very well in 3v3. I would like some feedback on this game btw: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/860312/9rax2.SC2Replayif you have time for this focus on me (Kakakarl). I'm trying to be offensive early to force chrono on gate and pick off a probe but since I suck I failed to do so + didn't manage my base well while doing it. (practice here is obviously needed) But what else did I do wrong?
I don't really watch replays unless i'm teaching my apologies but I get too many requests. You can purchase lessons though! sorry my friend.
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On September 24 2010 04:40 Almin wrote:
Your videos have helped me out so much Yosho, I'm finally a 1000 point Diamond Zerg player, with the help from you. Thank you.
w00t!!!
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Hey Yosho, yet another newb question
I do use a particular set of hotkeys 1 cc/nexus 2-4 structures and 5-7 units
while i do feel 5a and 5h 6e (emp) 7d is easier I see near every guide/pro/faq/video saying to use 1-3 and 4-7 and not the opposite
You think I should force myself to change since it may cost me effectiveness ?
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On September 24 2010 10:04 noD wrote:
Hey Yosho, yet another newb question
I do use a particular set of hotkeys 1 cc/nexus 2-4 structures and 5-7 units
while i do feel 5a and 5h 6e (emp) 7d is easier I see near every guide/pro/faq/video saying to use 1-3 and 4-7 and not the opposite
You think I should force myself to change since it may cost me effectiveness ?
If you feel your keybinds is easier, then obviously you shouldn't switch. You should only consider swapping around if it somehow feels weird.
That's my oppinion anyway
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On September 24 2010 15:15 Saltz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 10:04 noD wrote:
Hey Yosho, yet another newb question
I do use a particular set of hotkeys 1 cc/nexus 2-4 structures and 5-7 units
while i do feel 5a and 5h 6e (emp) 7d is easier I see near every guide/pro/faq/video saying to use 1-3 and 4-7 and not the opposite
You think I should force myself to change since it may cost me effectiveness ? If you feel your keybinds is easier, then obviously you shouldn't switch. You should only consider swapping around if it somehow feels weird. That's my oppinion anyway
Pretty much agreed unless it hinders your capabilities in game.
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Hi Yosh thanks for the thread, I had some questions regarding TvT and TvP.
I am trying to learn 1 rax fe builds for TvP and I have come across a bunch where you get reapers or marauders or 1 rax marine into expand. I was wondering if you have a specific preference and what do you think is a good way to go about 1 rax fe against Toss. Particularly what do you do against 3 gate immortal and 4 gate all-ins, is it something that I have to scout for and change my build to account for or can I simply get away with throwing down 2-3 bunkers at nat and macroing away?
I have also had a difficult time transitioning into tech from 1 rax fe. If I over-commit to bio I lose to mass colossus pushes but lately I have been having a lot of success with banshees. I saw some of your games where you transition into mech but I have a hard time pulling off mech against toss on most maps, particularly when the critical mass of colo 1-2 shots everything on the ground.
I was also wondering if you have some good insights about TvT. For some reason I just don't have a handle on this match-up. I mostly lose or get behind in the early game, If I go tanks then I eat a marau drop in main or if I go bio, I have tanks sieging up in front of my main. Otherwise it is banshees. Its pretty much hit or miss because I don't have a reliable opening. I have been experimenting with marine hellion banshee but have been getting rolled over with thor and bio when I do this.
Late game I have trouble with thor banshee compositions where banshees have cloak and the thors can easily snipe ravens. The banshees' mobility also make up for the slow thors and allow good harassment. Any ideas for dealing with this composition?
Is there a go to reliable macro opening you can recommend for this matchup or is it a little rock/paper/scissorish in that its pretty much about scouting and then responding with a counter to whatever your opponent is doing?
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On September 25 2010 02:53 babyToSS wrote:
Hi Yosh thanks for the thread, I had some questions regarding TvT and TvP.
I am trying to learn 1 rax fe builds for TvP and I have come across a bunch where you get reapers or marauders or 1 rax marine into expand. I was wondering if you have a specific preference and what do you think is a good way to go about 1 rax fe against Toss. Particularly what do you do against 3 gate immortal and 4 gate all-ins, is it something that I have to scout for and change my build to account for or can I simply get away with throwing down 2-3 bunkers at nat and macroing away?
I have also had a difficult time transitioning into tech from 1 rax fe. If I over-commit to bio I lose to mass colossus pushes but lately I have been having a lot of success with banshees. I saw some of your games where you transition into mech but I have a hard time pulling off mech against toss on most maps, particularly when the critical mass of colo 1-2 shots everything on the ground.
I was also wondering if you have some good insights about TvT. For some reason I just don't have a handle on this match-up. I mostly lose or get behind in the early game, If I go tanks then I eat a marau drop in main or if I go bio, I have tanks sieging up in front of my main. Otherwise it is banshees. Its pretty much hit or miss because I don't have a reliable opening. I have been experimenting with marine hellion banshee but have been getting rolled over with thor and bio when I do this.
Late game I have trouble with thor banshee compositions where banshees have cloak and the thors can easily snipe ravens. The banshees' mobility also make up for the slow thors and allow good harassment. Any ideas for dealing with this composition?
Is there a go to reliable macro opening you can recommend for this matchup or is it a little rock/paper/scissorish in that its pretty much about scouting and then responding with a counter to whatever your opponent is doing?
With a fast expand,make sure you are on far positions or you know they won't be aggressive until you are safe. I prefer 2 reaper opening with the fast expand to scout them out accordingly. Or a2 racks into expo.
Bunkers down could be sufficient if repaired properly.
TvT is about scoutingand multi tasking. If bio kills you, try bio and find out what stops that. If tanks kill you, go tanks and find out what counters that. If you lose at 1 strategy, try it until you found a counter. And an under used unit for the banshee is ghost + marines.
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Why did you dip from 1500 Terran to 1300 random? Troll troll troll!!! lol jk. I had the same problem picking up zerg.
From one random to another, how do you go about practicing? Do you have consistent partners? Do your testing on ladder? Ask for certain builds?
Good Stuff so far.
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It's more of a replay request than an advice
Is there any replay you remember you had to fend off big drops-all-in early/mid early (40-60 food) with lik 4-6 medivacs full of marines or for any particular reason you stayed behind and had to be on turtle mode against air/drops in a tvt ?
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On September 26 2010 14:10 zomgtossrush wrote:
Why did you dip from 1500 Terran to 1300 random? Troll troll troll!!! lol jk. I had the same problem picking up zerg.
From one random to another, how do you go about practicing? Do you have consistent partners? Do your testing on ladder? Ask for certain builds?
Good Stuff so far.
I actually practice multiple strategies on ladder, I was at 1500 and hurt my neck making it very difficult to play. At that time I decided to test strategies like no queen zerg and so forth. Still testing multiple strategies that I want to work on and planning to climb again soon.
As for practicing I practice with specific people in match ups and different maps. People like Trump, Warden and so on. I don't ask for builds I try to make my own.
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On September 26 2010 23:56 noD wrote:
It's more of a replay request than an advice
Is there any replay you remember you had to fend off big drops-all-in early/mid early (40-60 food) with lik 4-6 medivacs full of marines or for any particular reason you stayed behind and had to be on turtle mode against air/drops in a tvt ?
To fight tactics like this keep a few units in your base that can snipe a medivac and atack ground. Kill it fast before it can unload, or only a little.
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Hey Yosho,
First off all thx for all the quality streaming on xfire!
I recently started to play scII, ive only played one race "zerg". Atm im playing at the bottom of the bronze league. Ive played like 20 games and won 5... Mostly im facing terran. But i don't really get what i should build against those marine / and those flyers...
Im mostly using zerglings, rouches, hydra's.. And i don't know which upgrades i need to take first and when to build what. Can u provide me some sort of build-up and what to upgrade and when?
I also can provide you with a replay if you'd like that.
muchly appreciated
Xenius
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On September 27 2010 10:34 xenius wrote:
Hey Yosho,
First off all thx for all the quality streaming on xfire!
I recently started to play scII, ive only played one race "zerg". Atm im playing at the bottom of the bronze league. Ive played like 20 games and won 5... Mostly im facing terran. But i don't really get what i should build against those marine / and those flyers...
Im mostly using zerglings, rouches, hydra's.. And i don't know which upgrades i need to take first and when to build what. Can u provide me some sort of build-up and what to upgrade and when?
I also can provide you with a replay if you'd like that.
muchly appreciated
Xenius
Marines < banelings
Marauders < zerglings
Both< banelings and zerglings- infestors work too.
Hellions < roaches
Siege tanks < Mutalisks
Thors< zerglings
All 3< Muta's, zerglings, banelings, roaches from different angles attacking.
Vikings<mutalisks
Battlecruisers<corrupters
Terran ground army < broodlords or ultralisks.
As for strategy, 13 gas 14 pool and get units according to what he's getting.
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Does anyone know what 11am GMT+1 is for Mountain time? *America - Utah*
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Just wondering? WHat are some decent hotkeys, Maybe its just me, but I run into so many issues with my macro, Im high end Gold Terran player, And its just that during fights and with other stuff i run into trouble with my macro..
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Ah well someone messaged me that I am not very good with all those type things.
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On September 29 2010 09:15 Bonkerz wrote:
Just wondering? WHat are some decent hotkeys, Maybe its just me, but I run into so many issues with my macro, Im high end Gold Terran player, And its just that during fights and with other stuff i run into trouble with my macro..
I use 1 army,cc, nexus, hatchery. 3 special units, 4 production facilities. 5-0 special units
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Personally I like:
1 - Main army
2 - special units
3 - special units
4 - Raxs
5 - factories and starports
6 - upgrade buildings
7 - Command centres.
8 - anything extra I may need
9 - SCVs for easy base reasignment
0 - I usually just chuck 1 SCV on this as a scout so i don't have to pick them off mineral lines or anything, but of course I send him back to minerals after the scouting. XD
I usually go pretty heavy bio play so this works for me with easy access to raxs and fairly easy access to ports/fac since i make less units from those in most situations. Plus army is easy to select and use being right up the front.
And CC on 7 because basically once you start getting into the mid game, I have almost all the SCVs I will need so it's less important to be able to select compared to say, army and production. To me anyway. :D
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Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware from the viewers
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On September 29 2010 12:51 Rodregeus wrote:
Personally I like:
1 - Main army
2 - special units
3 - special units
4 - Raxs
5 - factories and starports
6 - upgrade buildings
7 - Command centres.
8 - anything extra I may need
9 - SCVs for easy base reasignment
0 - I usually just chuck 1 SCV on this as a scout so i don't have to pick them off mineral lines or anything, but of course I send him back to minerals after the scouting. XD
I usually go pretty heavy bio play so this works for me with easy access to raxs and fairly easy access to ports/fac since i make less units from those in most situations. Plus army is easy to select and use being right up the front.
And CC on 7 because basically once you start getting into the mid game, I have almost all the SCVs I will need so it's less important to be able to select compared to say, army and production. To me anyway. :D
Finding a right hotkey setup is a great way to improve macro and micro. I like the way yours is as well, very convenient.
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Hi Yosho,
I got some trouble when I play Zerg and I face a Terran who fast double starport for Banshee.
When I can't scout (no gaz steal nor than an effective overlord sacrifize) I tend to go for the economy (coz he has only few marines near his wall).
So when I drone drone drone the Terran get my pants down and I can't manage banshee with only 2 (or 3) queens and no overseer.
When I mass zerglings (for banelings later) I usually can't beat the wall.
I did not try one base fast muta but I think it sucks.
What do you recommand to do ?
When I scout I could think of fast hellion, fast tank or a hidden MM .
Thanks.
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On September 30 2010 00:54 hybride wrote:Hi Yosho, I got some trouble when I play Zerg and I face a Terran who fast double starport for Banshee. When I can't scout (no gaz steal nor than an effective overlord sacrifize) I tend to go for the economy (coz he has only few marines near his wall). So when I drone drone drone the Terran get my pants down and I can't manage banshee with only 2 (or 3) queens and no overseer. When I mass zerglings (for banelings later) I usually can't beat the wall. I did not try one base fast muta but I think it sucks. What do you recommand to do ? When I scout I could think of fast hellion, fast tank or a hidden MM . Thanks.
If you can't see what he has, poke a few zerglings near his wall to see how many ground units he has. and if he isn't attacking expect some sort of harass. Getting a fast lair with an overseer + overlord speed to make it faster can help greatly in trying to fight it. If he is going two port banshee he's most likely bringing hellions and marines, banelings are great against this and you can choose hydra - queen - baneling or muta baneling to counter his army. getting a fairly early spire helps stop a lot of terran builds.
The banelings will prepare for a lot of bio play and the muta's will help harass if he moves out of his base to attack.
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Question: You recently joined EsG, what are your thoughts on some of the higher level players on your team like Ryze, Pride, and FrOsTy. Are you guys going to enter alot of league games? Also, noe that your on a good team, are you going to pick one race?
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On September 30 2010 06:12 Dr.Frost wrote:
Question: You recently joined EsG, what are your thoughts on some of the higher level players on your team like Ryze, Pride, and FrOsTy. Are you guys going to enter alot of league games? Also, noe that your on a good team, are you going to pick one race?
I enjoy playing the few games that I've had so far. The players have a unique different play style.
League as in ladder?
I may choose protoss or zerg, so far I'm undecided but practicing both.
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Leages as in clan leagues. EsG is entered in Lag league and SC League. Where yu compete against other clans/teams for ranks.
Glad you dig the team! We should practice when I return from my trip.
FrOsTy-
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On September 30 2010 12:20 Dr.Frost wrote:Leages as in clan leagues. EsG is entered in Lag league and SC League. Where yu compete against other clans/teams for ranks. Glad you dig the team! We should practice when I return from my trip. FrOsTy-
I will have to practice more before I am ready to represent this team :D.
Anytime >
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Hey yosho, i got some questions regarding earlygame protoss.
in the last few days i've been getting terrans who push very early with purely marauders. if i do a standard opening with a core after gate and so on, i will face around 5-6 marauders while im having around 2 stalkers, a zealot a sentry and either an immortal on the way or already on the field. its kinda difficult to face those marauders head on. also if i keep them away with force field, he keeps getting reinforcements faster than i do as he is probably just spamming marauders out of some rax. by the time i strengthen my army, he will slowly gain ground with sieged tanks just at my natural.
i guess i'm doing something wrong, advice is appreciated.
another question: what is the most solid bo to repel any early pressure or cheese. is forge after gateway a good choice? i kinda fall behind in units if i place 1 or 2 cannons in case he doesnt cheese me. be it zealot rush or marauders or zerglins, although a 6pool is kind of easy to deal with.
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Yo Yosho, thanks for the replay packs, they really help a lot.
for TvP, i want to FE on a map with an easy to hold natural. i've tried mass marine out of 2/3 rax. i keep losing to stalker/sentry. i want to add more marauders to the mix, but i'm scared of void rays. is marine/marauder still the way to go?
should i rush for starports before expanding? or siege tank expand like in BW?
whats the best counter to void rays and carriers?
thanks
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On October 01 2010 05:00 Ascalon wrote:
Hey yosho, i got some questions regarding earlygame protoss.
in the last few days i've been getting terrans who push very early with purely marauders. if i do a standard opening with a core after gate and so on, i will face around 5-6 marauders while im having around 2 stalkers, a zealot a sentry and either an immortal on the way or already on the field. its kinda difficult to face those marauders head on. also if i keep them away with force field, he keeps getting reinforcements faster than i do as he is probably just spamming marauders out of some rax. by the time i strengthen my army, he will slowly gain ground with sieged tanks just at my natural.
i guess i'm doing something wrong, advice is appreciated.
another question: what is the most solid bo to repel any early pressure or cheese. is forge after gateway a good choice? i kinda fall behind in units if i place 1 or 2 cannons in case he doesnt cheese me. be it zealot rush or marauders or zerglins, although a 6pool is kind of easy to deal with.
the first part I have replays on how to stop that with a specific immortal build I made in the Toss replay pack. used multiple times with great success.
It depends on the matchup really I prefer 1 gate into robotics.
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On October 01 2010 07:40 Gwaltgw wrote:
Yo Yosho, thanks for the replay packs, they really help a lot.
for TvP, i want to FE on a map with an easy to hold natural. i've tried mass marine out of 2/3 rax. i keep losing to stalker/sentry. i want to add more marauders to the mix, but i'm scared of void rays. is marine/marauder still the way to go?
should i rush for starports before expanding? or siege tank expand like in BW?
whats the best counter to void rays and carriers?
thanks
you can go marines / siege tanks with great success to get a fast expo. Be sure to add in ghosts and get vikings when expo is up as he will either get immortals to counter you, *and emp is great vs anything*. And he should get collasai to counter marines.
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I'm surprised there aren't more posts over the replays. I'm loading 30-40 replays would draw some feedback on the games. o.o
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Out of town right now, so I am away from my computer atm. I just reached diamond as terran by studying you replays so thank you. I'm planning onlearning the other two races now,and will be watching your replays.
Thanks for your help.
Ps: any basic advice on how to handle the transition like mentalities etc?,
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What is the best build for Terran vs Protos 1v1?
The best I have tried so far is the 1-1-2 which becomes 3-1-2 marine/banshee build. It is strong in general but weak vs Protos who goes Templar. I have tried switching to Tanks or Ghosts but I cannot get enough of them before he storms my army away. The build is also weak vs fast Void ray rushes since you do not have enough marines to counter it.
So I am looking for a better build that works both against the normal zealot/sentry/stalker mix followed by Colossus and against the same army but where he goes Templar instead of Colossus.
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On October 01 2010 13:11 Vegasminion wrote:
I'm surprised there aren't more posts over the replays. I'm loading 30-40 replays would draw some feedback on the games. o.o
definitely gonna check out those PvT games today. thanks again for the great thread and stream!
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What is the most frustrating thing that a zerg player can do to you in the first 15 minutes of game?
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hey yosh, what would your course of action to defend against a well micro and macro'd carrier rush at around 10 minutes? It's usually accompanied by carrier at the back of base while ground troops push ramp.
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On October 02 2010 23:01 xprometheusx wrote:
Out of town right now, so I am away from my computer atm. I just reached diamond as terran by studying you replays so thank you. I'm planning onlearning the other two races now,and will be watching your replays.
Thanks for your help.
Ps: any basic advice on how to handle the transition like mentalities etc?,
Terran can be defensive and come out on top with a nice push against zerg if played right, that doesn't really work for the other races. Prepare to become very aggressive and a little more conservative on positioning / units.
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On October 03 2010 00:08 MockHamill wrote:
What is the best build for Terran vs Protos 1v1?
The best I have tried so far is the 1-1-2 which becomes 3-1-2 marine/banshee build. It is strong in general but weak vs Protos who goes Templar. I have tried switching to Tanks or Ghosts but I cannot get enough of them before he storms my army away. The build is also weak vs fast Void ray rushes since you do not have enough marines to counter it.
So I am looking for a better build that works both against the normal zealot/sentry/stalker mix followed by Colossus and against the same army but where he goes Templar instead of Colossus.
Personally I prefer the 2 racks (tech lab reactor) fast expand build into ghosts/ vikings / tanks / medivacs and a bio army. It's very powerful and hard to stop as a protoss unless he 4 gates and you don't have a defense up.
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On October 03 2010 02:47 Ragnar4 wrote:
What is the most frustrating thing that a zerg player can do to you in the first 15 minutes of game?
burrow banelings outside my exit point when I haven't noticed it and blow up half my army.
However when I play zerg I try to do this often as it is fun.
Also burrowing 4 banelings at expo's and blowing them when the base is fully saturated.
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On October 03 2010 04:44 SCling wrote:
hey yosh, what would your course of action to defend against a well micro and macro'd carrier rush at around 10 minutes? It's usually accompanied by carrier at the back of base while ground troops push ramp.
As what race my friend?
Terran I'd get viking / marine and a ghost for emp.
Zerg i'd go corrupters and hydras as he won't have the tech to switch to collasai.
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I meant as a terran. It's usually pretty hard to get ghosts out so fast when i start pumping vikings, and if i overemphasize vikings then the zealot/stalker ground force just walks over mine.
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On October 03 2010 04:59 SCling wrote:
I meant as a terran. It's usually pretty hard to get ghosts out so fast when i start pumping vikings, and if i overemphasize vikings then the zealot/stalker ground force just walks over mine.
Bunker up as well with marines in the bunker. If he's going carriers he won't have many zealots or stalkers. Vikings can also land to help stop the ground after they are done killing carriers.
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Hey vegas,
Do you have any tips on 2v2 for a t and z team?
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On October 09 2010 02:20 xprometheusx wrote:
Hey vegas,
Do you have any tips on 2v2 for a t and z team?
2v2 wise Banelings / mauraders and marines / roaches are great combinations.
I would focus on combining your unit comps to really hard counter the enemy.
Some examples are:
Tz vs PP - Marauder / marine / medivac / ghost. Zerging / baneling / mutalisk. Counters a shit ton.
Tz vs TT - Tank / marauder / medivac / viking. Baneling / Mutalisk / infestor is very strong too.
Tz vs ZZ - Hellion / Tank / Thor / Viking. Roach / Hydra / infestor. A fun steam roll combination.
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Stream is coming online :O!!!!
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I know this might be a random question but I read your post describing most strats. I am the type of player who likes to tech but i never know what tech to build because typically i build to defend myself and my partner since he likes to harass a a lot. So if there a good tech to go to straight off besides tanks as terran?
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On October 09 2010 04:54 Vegasminion wrote:
2v2 wise Banelings / mauraders and marines / roaches are great combinations.
I would focus on combining your unit comps to really hard counter the enemy.
Some examples are:
Tz vs PP - Marauder / marine / medivac / ghost. Zerging / baneling / mutalisk. Counters a shit ton.
Tz vs TT - Tank / marauder / medivac / viking. Baneling / Mutalisk / infestor is very strong too.
Tz vs ZZ - Hellion / Tank / Thor / Viking. Roach / Hydra / infestor. A fun steam roll combination.
If your playing 2 v 2 Low Diamond and below. You can basically get away with any combination of units and reach diamond. Its only past 400 + where reactionary plays/ transitions become important. I'd focus on Basic units like Marine/marauders. Lings and Banelings or 4 gateway. The 4 gateway + MM is one of the strongest but an early Ling/ Bling + MM or 2 gateway attack can kill this strategy.
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Hey Yosho,
Lately (post patch) I'm finding myself against 3rax in like EVERY single tvt ladder game ....
Do you have any hard counter to it ? The best solution I find is 1 rax fe but if scouted I die ... or just do 3 rax too and defend till I can expand, but the second doesnt make much sense, since I know something is comming I should be able to hard counter it ...
Do you have any BO or strat to beat it ? I'm talking about drops or attack before 50-60 food so siege tanks is not option too ...
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As zerg how can u counter those stalkers?
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On October 11 2010 07:00 Tyreel wrote:
I know this might be a random question but I read your post describing most strats. I am the type of player who likes to tech but i never know what tech to build because typically i build to defend myself and my partner since he likes to harass a a lot. So if there a good tech to go to straight off besides tanks as terran?
Ravens are great vs any race. If you really want to be tech fancy vs zerg get hunter seeker (can work vs terran bio).
Cloaked banshee's from multiple directions are great tech and harass.
A thor rush is a great tech strategy.
1 base battlecruiser with mass bunkers at your expo is pretty tech as well ^^
Ghosts are great vs most races as you can snipe, emp, and or cloak + damage to weaker teams.
You got some great options just remember that lots of bunkers + marines can actually hold off a lot of damage from units that don't outrange the bunker. This helps buy time.
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On October 11 2010 07:13 Benshin88 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 04:54 Vegasminion wrote:
2v2 wise Banelings / mauraders and marines / roaches are great combinations.
I would focus on combining your unit comps to really hard counter the enemy.
Some examples are:
Tz vs PP - Marauder / marine / medivac / ghost. Zerging / baneling / mutalisk. Counters a shit ton.
Tz vs TT - Tank / marauder / medivac / viking. Baneling / Mutalisk / infestor is very strong too.
Tz vs ZZ - Hellion / Tank / Thor / Viking. Roach / Hydra / infestor. A fun steam roll combination. If your playing 2 v 2 Low Diamond and below. You can basically get away with any combination of units and reach diamond. Its only past 400 + where reactionary plays/ transitions become important. I'd focus on Basic units like Marine/marauders. Lings and Banelings or 4 gateway. The 4 gateway + MM is one of the strongest but an early Ling/ Bling + MM or 2 gateway attack can kill this strategy.
That's very true, however I would try to practice counters and higher strategies to improve your gameplay faster and not just increase your rating.
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If an admin is watching this, is it possible to change the thread title? Please PM me. as 1500 is no longer a high rating I do wish to change it to something that shows I still am able to give quality information.
If this is possible i'd like it changed to something like;
Yosho, Answering questions.
Or High rated player answering questions.
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On October 11 2010 07:53 noD wrote:
Hey Yosho,
Lately (post patch) I'm finding myself against 3rax in like EVERY single tvt ladder game ....
Do you have any hard counter to it ? The best solution I find is 1 rax fe but if scouted I die ... or just do 3 rax too and defend till I can expand, but the second doesnt make much sense, since I know something is comming I should be able to hard counter it ...
Do you have any BO or strat to beat it ? I'm talking about drops or attack before 50-60 food so siege tanks is not option too ...
Something before 50-60 food? Grab 2-3 bunkers really. You can also fast expand planetary fortress if you are that worried. But mostly bunkers and teching to siege tanks will work fast.
My personal TvT build is;
10 depo
12 barracks (then marines nonstop)
13 gas
15 orbital
factory when 100 gas
Another refinery
tech lab on barracks
swap addons to factory on tech lab
siege mode
siege tank.
expand when siege is up
engineering bay
3 turrets (1 in each mineral line 1 at front near tanks and bunkers)
starport.
I like this build a lot ^^ try it out. stops a lot of cheese.
You can also add bunkers for marines if you are really worried.
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On October 11 2010 08:20 xenius wrote:
As zerg how can u counter those stalkers?
If they are going pure stalkers hydra works pretty well, also a lot of zerglings and infestors can help stop stalkers. Try to engage him on large fields so you can get an easy surround!
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as zerg, what is your gameplan against terran going for this:
reactor hellion opening --> banshee harass --> 2 base timing push with thors and either hellions and marines, or thor/banshee/marines and a few marauders to tank vs blings and massacre roaches.
also, when do you take your third if you think terran is going for some kinda 2 base push with about 4 thors with scvs repairing + whatever else he has. it seems like it usually hits around 11 minutes and gets to base beteween 11:30-12 mins
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On October 11 2010 08:36 Vegasminion wrote:
If an admin is watching this, is it possible to change the thread title? Please PM me. as 1500 is no longer a high rating I do wish to change it to something that shows I still am able to give quality information.
If this is possible i'd like it changed to something like;
Yosho, Answering questions.
Or High rated player answering questions.
I think you should try pming a moderator u see online (just look for recently closed topics ... )
On October 11 2010 08:56 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 07:53 noD wrote:
Hey Yosho,
Lately (post patch) I'm finding myself against 3rax in like EVERY single tvt ladder game ....
Do you have any hard counter to it ? The best solution I find is 1 rax fe but if scouted I die ... or just do 3 rax too and defend till I can expand, but the second doesnt make much sense, since I know something is comming I should be able to hard counter it ...
Do you have any BO or strat to beat it ? I'm talking about drops or attack before 50-60 food so siege tanks is not option too ... Something before 50-60 food? Grab 2-3 bunkers really. You can also fast expand planetary fortress if you are that worried. But mostly bunkers and teching to siege tanks will work fast. My personal TvT build is; 10 depo 12 barracks (then marines nonstop) 13 gas 15 orbital factory when 100 gas Another refinery tech lab on barracks swap addons to factory on tech lab siege mode siege tank. expand when siege is up engineering bay 3 turrets (1 in each mineral line 1 at front near tanks and bunkers) starport. I like this build a lot ^^ try it out. stops a lot of cheese. You can also add bunkers for marines if you are really worried.
Thanks, havent though about a third bunker or planetary fortress !
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On October 11 2010 09:15 AnAngryDingo wrote:
as zerg, what is your gameplan against terran going for this:
reactor hellion opening --> banshee harass --> 2 base timing push with thors and either hellions and marines, or thor/banshee/marines and a few marauders to tank vs blings and massacre roaches.
also, when do you take your third if you think terran is going for some kinda 2 base push with about 4 thors with scvs repairing + whatever else he has. it seems like it usually hits around 11 minutes and gets to base beteween 11:30-12 mins
Roaches > evo chamber or lair with queens > zerglings and infestors with some roach > grab a third when I have 2 bases optimally mining and get the gas first to help delay push > banelings targetting scvs or baneling drops ontop of the thors. - burrowed banelings at your choke or in the middle of the map. Just some thoughts ^^
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On October 11 2010 09:17 noD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 08:36 Vegasminion wrote:
If an admin is watching this, is it possible to change the thread title? Please PM me. as 1500 is no longer a high rating I do wish to change it to something that shows I still am able to give quality information.
If this is possible i'd like it changed to something like;
Yosho, Answering questions.
Or High rated player answering questions. I think you should try pming a moderator u see online (just look for recently closed topics ... ) Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 08:56 Vegasminion wrote:On October 11 2010 07:53 noD wrote:
Hey Yosho,
Lately (post patch) I'm finding myself against 3rax in like EVERY single tvt ladder game ....
Do you have any hard counter to it ? The best solution I find is 1 rax fe but if scouted I die ... or just do 3 rax too and defend till I can expand, but the second doesnt make much sense, since I know something is comming I should be able to hard counter it ...
Do you have any BO or strat to beat it ? I'm talking about drops or attack before 50-60 food so siege tanks is not option too ... Something before 50-60 food? Grab 2-3 bunkers really. You can also fast expand planetary fortress if you are that worried. But mostly bunkers and teching to siege tanks will work fast. My personal TvT build is; 10 depo 12 barracks (then marines nonstop) 13 gas 15 orbital factory when 100 gas Another refinery tech lab on barracks swap addons to factory on tech lab siege mode siege tank. expand when siege is up engineering bay 3 turrets (1 in each mineral line 1 at front near tanks and bunkers) starport. I like this build a lot ^^ try it out. stops a lot of cheese. You can also add bunkers for marines if you are really worried. Thanks, havent though about a third bunker or planetary fortress !
Glad I could help!
I am unsure how to catch a moderator though.
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I never had to contact a moderator in this forum, but I guess you can pretty much follow this link http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=0 for closed threads and see who closed it, then trying pming him ...
Edit: just click on the first link, it's probably the most recently closed...
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On October 11 2010 09:45 noD wrote:I never had to contact a moderator in this forum, but I guess you can pretty much follow this link http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=0 for closed threads and see who closed it, then trying pming him ... Edit: just click on the first link, it's probably the most recently closed...
I found one :O! Lets see if he responds.
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Stream is coming online with high level protoss play. 1700+
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Hey Yosho what is your standard opener in PvZ against a standard 15 hatch 14 pool into ling/muta?
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On October 11 2010 11:25 motus wrote:
Hey Yosho what is your standard opener in PvZ against a standard 15 hatch 14 pool into ling/muta?
15 nexus - forge cannons then take it from there.
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Ya trying it out, 1-1 so far.
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No sound ?
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I believe all sound should be working but the stream is going offline, sorry it's 5 am here.
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What is a good response on scrapstation as Terran if a Zerg goes:
15 FE
14 Pool
I tried an early attack but it takes so long to walk around he had lings out in time to defend.
Put me on the back foot the whole game!
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On October 12 2010 02:15 Brack wrote:
What is a good response on scrapstation as Terran if a Zerg goes:
15 FE
14 Pool
I tried an early attack but it takes so long to walk around he had lings out in time to defend.
Put me on the back foot the whole game!
Put down another command center and surprise him ^^ expand as well.
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We got a name change! Bump so people know they can still ask questions.
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Hey Yosho, why did you scrap the 9 rax/10 depot T build (the one mentioned at the start of the thread)?
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Hey Yosho,
Since i am at work I´m trying to do a nice compilation of strats do you have some strats that are no way all in strats where u send a handful of units (proxied or not ) and it may damage, force the oponnent to overreact or just ends up it straight in TvP?
An example would be a proxied fast factory with 2 hellions against Z, but I want your feedback for those kind of strats in TvP.
Thanks in advance
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Hey Guys,
First time ever posting on a starcraft forum so forgive my ignorance should there be any. Since the start of Starcraft 2 I have been bouncing back and forth between Protoss and Terran. At my best I made it into diamond league with protoss but as a lower level player in the division. Since then I have switched to Terran do largly to the fact that I'm tired of having little to no early game harrasment. My questions is could anyone out there suggest to me some builds that favour early game harrasment without sacrificing macro entirely? I'm aware of many Marine, Marauder timing pushes but typically thats around 30-40 food. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
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They are nurfing it so you need a supply depo before barracks now.
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On October 14 2010 06:07 noD wrote:
Hey Yosho,
Since i am at work I´m trying to do a nice compilation of strats do you have some strats that are no way all in strats where u send a handful of units (proxied or not ) and it may damage, force the oponnent to overreact or just ends up it straight in TvP?
An example would be a proxied fast factory with 2 hellions against Z, but I want your feedback for those kind of strats in TvP.
Thanks in advance
Double rax marine with bunkers can be pretty good, maybe grabbing an extra tech lab and making him think marauders. Or grabbing 1 marauder, chase worker out, fast expand.
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Yes lol, I was practicing PvZ at a higher level in ladder and I always lose to muta / ling. Got me very frustrated. You can't really expand so easy because he has 100% map control. However I have improved a lot since this game ^^
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On October 14 2010 07:01 MajorLaZer wrote:
Hey Guys,
First time ever posting on a starcraft forum so forgive my ignorance should there be any. Since the start of Starcraft 2 I have been bouncing back and forth between Protoss and Terran. At my best I made it into diamond league with protoss but as a lower level player in the division. Since then I have switched to Terran do largly to the fact that I'm tired of having little to no early game harrasment. My questions is could anyone out there suggest to me some builds that favour early game harrasment without sacrificing macro entirely? I'm aware of many Marine, Marauder timing pushes but typically thats around 30-40 food. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
1 racks marauder send 2-3 scvs make bunkers.
3 racks marine rally marines to enemy base and make a bunker.
11 gas 12 barracks grab a fast factory and push with marauder hellion.
Etc etc.
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Do you have any anti-cheese builds after the depot-rax change in the new patch i've been using your 9-10-11 up to this point on 1v1 maps..
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I personally stick. With 10 12 works fairly well and I can hold off most early harass with little to no trouble
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On October 15 2010 00:04 Roniacz wrote:Do you have any anti-cheese builds after the depot-rax change in the new patch i've been using your 9-10-11 up to this point on 1v1 maps..
I still go normal 10 - 12 and scout thoroughly, I just send a scout before the first depo. (make sure to check your base)
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What do you do against muta-ling?
I try for fast expand, hellions, then thors, and it sometimes works. But I'm wondering if there is a better way?
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is there an effective way to beat banelings/muta? my bioball always gets wrecked by banelings / muta
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On October 18 2010 02:29 turingpolice wrote:
What do you do against muta-ling?
I try for fast expand, hellions, then thors, and it sometimes works. But I'm wondering if there is a better way?
siege tank / marine / thor works pretty good for me. Move the marines behind the tanks.
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On October 18 2010 15:51 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2010 02:29 turingpolice wrote:
What do you do against muta-ling?
I try for fast expand, hellions, then thors, and it sometimes works. But I'm wondering if there is a better way? siege tank / marine / thor works pretty good for me. Move the marines behind the tanks.
I don't usually have problem with pure mutaling but how do you combat mutaling+bling+infestor? As soon as they get 8 mutas they can overpower any lone turret and keep you in base while making ling and bling. I use marine tank and thor too but it seems like bling just demolish everything. Thanks for the help :D
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Ever since the patch was released I am struggling hard at TvT. I used to always proxy Marine + Bunker rush and it worked 90% of the time but now that I'm forced to play TvT straight up I'm at a complete loss as to what I should go far. Any replays, build orders, guides, anything would help me out a lot.
I'm used to games that are over in 15 minutes or less but in TvT that rarely happens because a fast bunker + fast tanks shuts down all early ground pushes and any competent Terran player knows the timing for banshees and will scan you to see if you're going banshees and get turrets up if he wasn't auto placing them as part of their build order to begin with.
Is TvT all about long macro games vying for better map control or is there any strong opening pushes that can end games early out there?
I'm 900 level diamond if that matters--- I dropped from 1000 today because I lost a lot of TvT games tonight....
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On October 18 2010 02:33 HeroFighter wrote:
is there an effective way to beat banelings/muta? my bioball always gets wrecked by banelings / muta
Thor/Hellion/Marine will shut Sling/Bling/Muta down. Going only bio against Zerg is a pretty big risk considering how effective banelings are at owning bio balls. If you're determined to use bio against Zerg just make sure your push happens before they get mutas out.
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Hey Yosho,
Now that the supply before rax patch came live what can you do against hatch first or nexus first fe builds? I hardly ever made rax before depot, but the fact that I was able to was usually enough to discourage 15 nexus or hatch first. It feels hard to deny the expansion and even if I get some drones/probes with a hellion drop I'm still a little behind. Any ideas on actually denying that expo?
I'm 1200 terran.
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On October 18 2010 16:02 positron. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2010 15:51 Vegasminion wrote:On October 18 2010 02:29 turingpolice wrote:
What do you do against muta-ling?
I try for fast expand, hellions, then thors, and it sometimes works. But I'm wondering if there is a better way? siege tank / marine / thor works pretty good for me. Move the marines behind the tanks. I don't usually have problem with pure mutaling but how do you combat mutaling+bling+infestor? As soon as they get 8 mutas they can overpower any lone turret and keep you in base while making ling and bling. I use marine tank and thor too but it seems like bling just demolish everything. Thanks for the help :D
Positioning 1 more turret or placing your army near your turrets can help defend it, all about positioning. Including on against banelings.
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On October 18 2010 17:09 Eames wrote:
Ever since the patch was released I am struggling hard at TvT. I used to always proxy Marine + Bunker rush and it worked 90% of the time but now that I'm forced to play TvT straight up I'm at a complete loss as to what I should go far. Any replays, build orders, guides, anything would help me out a lot.
I'm used to games that are over in 15 minutes or less but in TvT that rarely happens because a fast bunker + fast tanks shuts down all early ground pushes and any competent Terran player knows the timing for banshees and will scan you to see if you're going banshees and get turrets up if he wasn't auto placing them as part of their build order to begin with.
Is TvT all about long macro games vying for better map control or is there any strong opening pushes that can end games early out there?
I'm 900 level diamond if that matters--- I dropped from 1000 today because I lost a lot of TvT games tonight....
It sounds like you are looking for the new cheese, I don't really know of much. I would suggest practicing some standard play as that will be more beneficial in the long run.
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On October 18 2010 17:25 plurtsis wrote:
Hey Yosho,
Now that the supply before rax patch came live what can you do against hatch first or nexus first fe builds? I hardly ever made rax before depot, but the fact that I was able to was usually enough to discourage 15 nexus or hatch first. It feels hard to deny the expansion and even if I get some drones/probes with a hellion drop I'm still a little behind. Any ideas on actually denying that expo?
I'm 1200 terran.
If they early expo, drop down more production facilities against protoss and go all in.
Against zerg it is natural. Why don't you early expo or harass to counter it?
As in denying it. Make an engineering bay at their natural unfinished against zergs and scout all the other bases. There is not much you can do to deny a zerg expansion.
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~1900 terran here, btw. I'll answer questions I know I can answer safely enough, though me and the OP may disagree on some key areas.
How to stop muta/ling/bling? Attack him at ~13 mins and deny his third. And maybe keep attacking. You gotta stay aggressive, even if it seems bad for you, because if the Zerg army gets too big you'll never kill it.
The only way to stop this is to ensure his mutaflock does not get too large. If it does then you're fucked, well and true, as his army is far too big to handle, he'll have a third up and you struggle to get yours up likewise, and even if you do you struggle to get out of your base because 30 mutas >>> terran bases. If you cannot get out of your base then you cannot stop him from taking a 4th and 5th and eventually ultralisks. And then you're REALLY screwed.
And the only way to stop the mutaflock getting too large is to attack him. He won't attack you. He doesn't need to.
What with? I'm tinkering with a bioball meself, but thor/marine/marauder SHOULD do, as long as your fundamentals are solid.
And no, thor/marine/hellion does not shut down muta/ling/bling by it's own nature. Magic box >>> thors, banelings >>> marines and hellions. Hellions >>> lings, but not banelings, so big fucken deal there. Yes, these are useful units to have (perhaps not the thor, hence why I've been trying out TvZ without tanks or thors until 3rd base, which so far has been going surprisingly ok), but they won't win you the game just because you built them and attacked him.
Anyway, useful information above is over. Here contains my current experimentation with TvZ.
Fuck thors. Seriously. I liked them when their splash meant something, and now I'm over them. Screw tanks as well. Well, correction. Screw tanks BEFORE 3rd base. Tansk after 3rd is great beacuse the Zerg army is huge at that point and I could really do with some tanks to reduce their numbers. Until then, bugger it all.
Why? Well, thors require two things to be really good vs mutalisks. First is upgrades, a +2/+0 thor kills a muta in 2 hits, not 3. Considering how slowly the bastards shoot, that's quite important. Second, an opponent that doesnt' know about magic box, which is basically no-one at high level play. If you lack those things then they don't do particularly well against mutalisks or lings or blings, compared to other options. Thors are also slow to move, and I don't care for that much either.
I do like using thors to dissuade mutalisks from entering my base before I get turrets up. The huge range of thor AA is quite nice. But otherwise I'm going to give them a miss and just depend on a LOT of marines and a LOT of keeping marines alive. Marines don't need bullshit to kill mutas, they just point their guns upwards, hit the stims and pray to god the banelings aren't next to them yet, and they do quite well at that.
I'm not saying Thors are entirely useless. I just don't want to use them in my style of play right now. Maybe later, mighty steel titans, but not yet. I do like adding them against ultralisks because they do LOADS of damage to them, laughing off their thick armour (well, mostly).
As for tanks, I'm not getting any until my 3rd is up, at which point I'll add loads. It's mostly because I don't need them yet. With good micro and creep clearing, a bioball can hold their own long enough against muta/ling/bling and keep their numbers down whilst I get a third up. A bioball can do this without getting fucked by bad positioning. Well, not as much. I'll add tanks later because they are useful later, especially when the distances between bases are shorter (because we're expanding everywhere) and it's harder for the Zerg to find good counterattack paths (another huge reason I hate pushing out with tanks on 2-base, good zergs exploit my lack of mobility hard).
A bioball is also heaps easier to control and macro up. Plus, because I'm skipping mech upgrades so I can afford to get infantry armour, which I've started to value highly. I ignored it before, because I was getting mech upgrades and didn't want to over-upgrade my army, and also because I didn't think I needed it. Marines get splatted by 2 banelings no matter how much armoru you have, so why bother?
True, true, but ultras, lings and mutas do smaller amounts of damage, and that is definitely worth getting at least 1 or 2 points of armour for.
Well, that's over. I'll be trying this out for probably like a week before I decide it's trash and move on.
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On October 18 2010 17:45 iaguz wrote:
~1900 terran here, btw. I'll answer questions I know I can answer safely enough, though me and the OP may disagree on some key areas.
How to stop muta/ling/bling? Attack him at ~13 mins and deny his third. And maybe keep attacking. You gotta stay aggressive, even if it seems bad for you, because if the Zerg army gets too big you'll never kill it.
The only way to stop this is to ensure his mutaflock does not get too large. If it does then you're fucked, well and true, as his army is far too big to handle, he'll have a third up and you struggle to get yours up likewise, and even if you do you struggle to get out of your base because 30 mutas >>> terran bases. If you cannot get out of your base then you cannot stop him from taking a 4th and 5th and eventually ultralisks. And then you're REALLY screwed.
And the only way to stop the mutaflock getting too large is to attack him. He won't attack you. He doesn't need to.
What with? I'm tinkering with a bioball meself, but thor/marine/marauder SHOULD do, as long as your fundamentals are solid.
And no, thor/marine/hellion does not shut down muta/ling/bling by it's own nature. Magic box >>> thors, banelings >>> marines and hellions. Hellions >>> lings, but not banelings, so big fucken deal there. Yes, these are useful units to have (perhaps not the thor, hence why I've been trying out TvZ without tanks or thors until 3rd base, which so far has been going surprisingly ok), but they won't win you the game just because you built them and attacked him.
Anyway, useful information above is over. Here contains my current experimentation with TvZ.
Fuck thors. Seriously. I liked them when their splash meant something, and now I'm over them. Screw tanks as well. Well, correction. Screw tanks BEFORE 3rd base. Tansk after 3rd is great beacuse the Zerg army is huge at that point and I could really do with some tanks to reduce their numbers. Until then, bugger it all.
Why? Well, thors require two things to be really good vs mutalisks. First is upgrades, a +2/+0 thor kills a muta in 2 hits, not 3. Considering how slowly the bastards shoot, that's quite important. Second, an opponent that doesnt' know about magic box, which is basically no-one at high level play. If you lack those things then they don't do particularly well against mutalisks or lings or blings, compared to other options. Thors are also slow to move, and I don't care for that much either.
I do like using thors to dissuade mutalisks from entering my base before I get turrets up. The huge range of thor AA is quite nice. But otherwise I'm going to give them a miss and just depend on a LOT of marines and a LOT of keeping marines alive. Marines don't need bullshit to kill mutas, they just point their guns upwards, hit the stims and pray to god the banelings aren't next to them yet, and they do quite well at that.
I'm not saying Thors are entirely useless. I just don't want to use them in my style of play right now. Maybe later, mighty steel titans, but not yet. I do like adding them against ultralisks because they do LOADS of damage to them, laughing off their thick armour (well, mostly).
As for tanks, I'm not getting any until my 3rd is up, at which point I'll add loads. It's mostly because I don't need them yet. With good micro and creep clearing, a bioball can hold their own long enough against muta/ling/bling and keep their numbers down whilst I get a third up. A bioball can do this without getting fucked by bad positioning. Well, not as much. I'll add tanks later because they are useful later, especially when the distances between bases are shorter (because we're expanding everywhere) and it's harder for the Zerg to find good counterattack paths (another huge reason I hate pushing out with tanks on 2-base, good zergs exploit my lack of mobility hard).
A bioball is also heaps easier to control and macro up. Plus, because I'm skipping mech upgrades so I can afford to get infantry armour, which I've started to value highly. I ignored it before, because I was getting mech upgrades and didn't want to over-upgrade my army, and also because I didn't think I needed it. Marines get splatted by 2 banelings no matter how much armoru you have, so why bother?
True, true, but ultras, lings and mutas do smaller amounts of damage, and that is definitely worth getting at least 1 or 2 points of armour for.
Well, that's over. I'll be trying this out for probably like a week before I decide it's trash and move on.
I would like to see some replays of examples to your bio statement, as infestors to me feel like they would shut down your entire play. Maybe a few examples of this working? As you can get infestors around the same time as mutalisks it shouldn't be too difficult to stop your aggression.
However I do hope you are on to something as tanks are very slow. 8)
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Good infestor play could shut this down, for sure. Thors still wouldn't help in that situation, mind! Tanks would though. Tanks are fun. Also drops. I hate dropping mutalisk players out because it's a huge risk trying to sneak a loaded dropship out, only to have it caught my roaming mutas and lose it all. fuck that. But against infestors it's a much safer bet. And it's easier to shoot down overlords with vikings too!
But against muta/ling/bling, hells fucking yes.
As I said, I will work on a bit more.
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On October 18 2010 18:13 iaguz wrote:
Good infestor play could shut this down, for sure. Thors still wouldn't help in that situation, mind! Tanks would though. Tanks are fun. Also drops. I hate dropping mutalisk players out because it's a huge risk trying to sneak a loaded dropship out, only to have it caught my roaming mutas and lose it all. fuck that. But against infestors it's a much safer bet. And it's easier to shoot down overlords with vikings too!
But against muta/ling/bling, hells fucking yes.
As I said, I will work on a bit more.
Looking forward to your results, however if you are going bio play. add cloak ghosts for emp shots.
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Hmmmm, ghosts, now that's not a bad idea.
My opening that I've been tinkering with is like 12 rax reaper, FE, into 2 cloaked banshees (you do lose a bit of timing with it, but they'll come before mutas arrive, if only just! I'm not 100% I need them to be cloaked because the lair is always up by the time they get there, although almost never an overseer. They do hatch very quickly, but I do get a cool window to shoot drones in whilst it morphs) into lots of rax and bioball, into 3rd at which at point I add factories and tanks.
Some ghosts though, instead of cloak tech (keep teh banshees as they are pretty useful. Even if they do get shot down, you do kill a good amount of drones whilst I get everything else in place.) is not a bad idea. I can see it working. Only thing I don't like is the fact I probably lack the apm to snipe all them banelings AND control my marines at the same time. I dunno. I'll definitely keep it in mind if I scout infestor play (scouting zerg tech is another use of the banshees, unfortunately I usually just sit and shoot drones instead, hehe)
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On October 18 2010 19:37 iaguz wrote:
Hmmmm, ghosts, now that's not a bad idea.
My opening that I've been tinkering with is like 12 rax reaper, FE, into 2 cloaked banshees (you do lose a bit of timing with it, but they'll come before mutas arrive, if only just! I'm not 100% I need them to be cloaked because the lair is always up by the time they get there, although almost never an overseer. They do hatch very quickly, but I do get a cool window to shoot drones in whilst it morphs) into lots of rax and bioball, into 3rd at which at point I add factories and tanks.
Some ghosts though, instead of cloak tech (keep teh banshees as they are pretty useful. Even if they do get shot down, you do kill a good amount of drones whilst I get everything else in place.) is not a bad idea. I can see it working. Only thing I don't like is the fact I probably lack the apm to snipe all them banelings AND control my marines at the same time. I dunno. I'll definitely keep it in mind if I scout infestor play (scouting zerg tech is another use of the banshees, unfortunately I usually just sit and shoot drones instead, hehe)
I hope you are watching the GSL as it shows just how easy it is to stop banshee's.
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On October 18 2010 19:45 Vegasminion wrote:
I hope you are watching the GSL as it shows just how easy it is to stop banshee's.
...
ButterflyEffect's banshees were -extremely- late.
He even built tanks before the banshees.
REAL 2-port banshee (gas before rax, etc.) can be really tricky to stop.
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Didn't watch GSL, but note that part where I said it's an FE build that uses banshees to poke around a bit and kill some drones, and scout. The other option is a drop. I don't like drops quite as much as you don't kill as many drones with a drop (well, generally) as you would with banshees. I'm here to kill drones goddammit, not fuckaround with some lings!
A lot of the inspiration for this build actually came from watching Drewbie wreck Ret and Slush. I'm not entirely sure with the banshees and cloak, I'll hand ye that, but the 12rax reaper opening is a winner. It gives me a tech lab to handle early pressure, allows me to put pressure on him, get great scouting and expand fast. What's to lose?
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On October 18 2010 20:28 iaguz wrote:
Didn't watch GSL, but note that part where I said it's an FE build that uses banshees to poke around a bit and kill some drones, and scout. The other option is a drop. I don't like drops quite as much as you don't kill as many drones with a drop (well, generally) as you would with banshees. I'm here to kill drones goddammit, not fuckaround with some lings!
A lot of the inspiration for this build actually came from watching Drewbie wreck Ret and Slush. I'm not entirely sure with the banshees and cloak, I'll hand ye that, but the 12rax reaper opening is a winner. It gives me a tech lab to handle early pressure, allows me to put pressure on him, get great scouting and expand fast. What's to lose?
You won't have reaper speed as early though, remember that new portion.
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EPT
