|
|
|
Nice post. Another map that comes to mind is Blistering Sands, hiding Stargate tech near the non-natural blue minerals that are horizontal to the enemy base.
|
On September 14 2010 15:18 SoFFacet wrote:
Nice post. Another map that comes to mind is Blistering Sands, hiding Stargate tech near the non-natural blue minerals that are horizontal to the enemy base.
You meant this one?
Blistering Sands
+ Show Spoiler +
|
Good thread, but the hardest place to find a P's tech is in the main. I encourage T's to either delay reaper scout, float a building, or have an scv roam the map when they are in the dark.
|
A good Terran player will almost always scout the entire base and see what's wrong or scout aroudn the map for hidden tech. Thus what you can do is build a building to fool an opponent if it gets scouted and cancel at the last possible time.
For some people it might be common but most ladder players don't know this very well.
Usually a pro T will just scan twice in a row to make sure the Protoss is going that tech instead of faking it like you make stargate to make opponent think you're going phoenix or VR yet you cancel when they aren't scouting your main anymore and make a robo for collossi or templar archives for HT's.
|
On September 14 2010 15:49 shannn wrote:
A good Terran player will almost always scout the entire base and see what's wrong or scout aroudn the map for hidden tech. Thus what you can do is build a building to fool an opponent if it gets scouted and cancel at the last possible time.
For some people it might be common but most ladder players don't know this very well.
Usually a pro T will just scan twice in a row to make sure the Protoss is going that tech instead of faking it like you make stargate to make opponent think you're going phoenix or VR yet you cancel when they aren't scouting your main anymore and make a robo for collossi or templar archives for HT's.
Well,
you are right ... partly. A good terran will also recognize that the 2nd pylon is missing and will instantly scout the entire map.
The key about this thread is not only how to detect what the protoss is dooing, rather then how to react while still on t1.
- Panic move ebay to throw down turrets?
- Panic move all in?
- Throw down fax / starport to get viking / raven ?
- Dont play 3rax any longer? 
Please share your opinion.
|
I've seen quite a few proxies by the gold at Xel'Naga, might want to add it there.
|
On September 14 2010 15:59 vyyye wrote:
I've seen quite a few proxies by the gold at Xel'Naga, might want to add it there.
True
I edited the image. Thanks
|
Nice thread! I think people will hide stuff at the golds on blistering, one time I was 4gated with 2 of the gates being proxied there  I'm pretty terrible with games sense in terms of scouting that kind of stuff, definitely a personal area for improvement. I've since thumbs down'd blistering sands though, sucky map for T all around haha
|
This thread makes me cry. I just got the game and I've done a couple of placement matches on blistering sands, where I found a sweet spot for a proxy pylon where I could warp in units. As it turns out, it's a common spot that I guess everyone will be scouting when I enter the ladder.
That makes me a sad panda. 
|
On September 14 2010 16:11 Bluebirrd wrote:This thread makes me cry. I just got the game and I've done a couple of placement matches on blistering sands, where I found a sweet spot for a proxy pylon where I could warp in units. As it turns out, it's a common spot that I guess everyone will be scouting when I enter the ladder. That makes me a sad panda.
I think proxy pylon differs from proxy tech  For warping in units most Protoss prefer Pylon @ Watchtower or a Pylon on the lower ground between nat exp and gold. if they place them correctly, a protoss player is able to warping in the units on the higher ground also, if he have sight.
|
On September 14 2010 16:20 Grrbrr.404 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 16:11 Bluebirrd wrote:This thread makes me cry. I just got the game and I've done a couple of placement matches on blistering sands, where I found a sweet spot for a proxy pylon where I could warp in units. As it turns out, it's a common spot that I guess everyone will be scouting when I enter the ladder. That makes me a sad panda. I think proxy pylon differs from proxy tech For warping in units most Protoss prefer Pylon @ Watchtower or a Pylon on the lower ground between nat exp and gold. if they place them correctly, a protoss player is able to warping in the units on the higher ground also, if he have sight.
True, but that area is more exposed to his normal troop movement. The spot you highlighted is well out of the way and still danger close to his rocks, which makes it a really good spot in my experience. He even doesn't see my units coming from the side if he has units on the ramp, and so it isn't immediately obvious where they are coming from.
I did build a Dark Shrine there in one of my games, but mostly because I had a pylon and a dim probe hanging out next to it at that location already. 
|
The yellow minerals on BS is a very common spot unlike you said because they are out of range of the xelnaga watchtowers.
A proxy will always be placed away from a watchtower.
Please explain in full detail how you are supposed to scout his entire base even if pro, because..
1) Your scouting probe WILL die to his first stalker and not reveal tech (just potential 2nd geyser or maybe missing pylons)
2) You arent going to get up his ramp any time soon. You rely on scan to show you tech?... that's just a gamble.
The thing about protoss tech is that it can be SO punishing. Voidrays/DT's will RAPE you if you don't react to them in time and chrono boost will mean that they will come FAST. Compare the time it takes to get a cloaked banshees to a voidray...
|
On September 14 2010 18:09 KaiserJohan wrote:
The yellow minerals on BS is a very common spot unlike you said because they are out of range of the xelnaga watchtowers.
A proxy will always be placed away from a watchtower.
Please explain in full detail how you are supposed to scout his entire base even if pro, because..
1) Your scouting probe WILL die to his first stalker and not reveal tech (just potential 2nd geyser or maybe missing pylons)
2) You arent going to get up his ramp any time soon. You rely on scan to show you tech?... that's just a gamble.
The thing about protoss tech is that it can be SO punishing. Voidrays/DT's will RAPE you if you don't react to them in time and chrono boost will mean that they will come FAST. Compare the time it takes to get a cloaked banshees to a voidray...
Yay! Hello fellow sufferer
I really hope some one have good answers for our questions In general i dont like to use scans, so what have you won if you scan him and see 2 gates or 3 gates? Nothing , right? But loosing 270 minerals (mule). Reaper scout seems better by far
I currently trying to figure out a good build order to improve myself, 3 rax isnt save enough. I think i need something bio heavy, but save game plan.
|
On September 14 2010 15:10 Grrbrr.404 wrote:Hey guys, yesterday i played multiple games against protoss teammate´s. After loosing against much proxy tech i decided to create this thread as help for myself and other readers. I like to do early pressureing with 3 rax builds. Because of this i really need to know if my opponent is dooing quick DT, colossus, or void rays. On maps with a small choke point, you cant rush into a protoss base that easily and just hit stim for the win A sentry will make you cry. During the Beta till today, ppl figgured out many ways to deal with this style of protoss play. One of them is the well known 1-1-1 Build, where you can get a early Voidray with Marines and tanks, to be save against anything a protoss can throw at you. My personal problem with this kind of build is, i really like early pressureing my enemy and cant see how to do do it. can you? I sticked with 3 rax / ghost / medivacs till today. Another way is ... just scouting. A reaper after your first marine+marauder can do a very good scouting job. Bellow i want to show common proxy locations where i often can find some bad ass trying to blow my ass away. Proxy locations: ![[image loading]](http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/6766/common.png) Common ![[image loading]](http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8359/uncommon.png) Uncommon Xel'Naga Caverns + Show Spoiler +Steppes of War + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/3894/steppesofwar.jpg) Common spots mostly voidray, charging on the rocks to bust terran Blistering Sands + Show Spoiler +Please feel free to enhance the list of proxy locations. Make sure to use image files from Liquipedia. Feel free to discuss about your experience to play against protoss. What is your style? Do you have trouble against proxy tech? How do you react if you spot early voidray / DT while your are still on tier 1 (no fax finished). Greetings
3 rax works, just add on a starport before the third rax and get an even viking medivac ratio. This will stop any void ray, collasai attempt at 1 base. get the viking first and 1 bunker at the front. an scv in mid to see aggression and add 2nd bunker if worried. push out with 1 viking 1 medivac. I'm very tired, i'll add more tomorrow if i remember too.
Further edit: When you practice a build, try to recognize key timings. As in I just got my factory he should have this at this stage. Then you scan and find out. If it's delayed try to think of reasons why and really go into detail. Little things like this can help greatly with preventing cheese.
|
On September 14 2010 15:10 Grrbrr.404 wrote:well known 1-1-1 Build, where you can get a early Voidray with Marines and tanks,
Ooohhh, I'd like to get an early Void Ray... as Terran! :-P
But generally, I think that any place that is not on the main attack routes is a possible proxy spot. I've seen proxies set up on lots of different places you didn't mark on your maps.
|
On September 14 2010 19:09 Vegasminion wrote:
3 rax works, just add on a starport before the third rax and get an even viking medivac ratio. This will stop any void ray, collasai attempt at 1 base. get the viking first and 1 bunker at the front. an scv in mid to see aggression and add 2nd bunker if worried. push out with 1 viking 1 medivac. I'm very tired, i'll add more tomorrow if i remember too.
Thanks for advice
That is some thing that i am currently thinking about. Today i saw following Video (quality is shit, build order seems to fit )
MakaPrime (T) vs Iron (P) - Metalopolis
+ Show Spoiler +
I extracted following build order (big strokes):
+ Show Spoiler +12 rax => build marines until 50 gas, reactor
13 gas
15 cc
2nd rax
fax on 100 gas
2nd gas, techlab on 2nd rax
research stimmpack instantly after techlab on 2nd rax finished
starport, techlab, 1 raven
~50 cc
On first push he have 3 rax techlab, 1 rax reactor, 1 raven, 2 medivacs, stim ready, concussive shells researching, exe running.
Looks good, dosnt it? Personally i would build techlab on first rax, reactor on 2nd. Pros: reaper scout. Cons: Less marines if you face void ray.
I will PM you if you do not respond again in the next 2 days ! :D
On September 14 2010 19:13 Strajder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 15:10 Grrbrr.404 wrote:well known 1-1-1 Build, where you can get a early Voidray with Marines and tanks, Ooohhh, I'd like to get an early Void Ray... as Terran! :-P But generally, I think that any place that is not on the main attack routes is a possible proxy spot. I've seen proxies set up on lots of different places you didn't mark on your maps.
Well :D i will correct this mistake i meant raven.
And yes of course there are much more possible spots to hide tech. But ... i think these are the most common ones.
|
Nice post ! :D I have to so agree with all the positsions lol
|
I don't really see the problems with proxy tech for terran if you're going MMM early.
Stargate units are automatically countered if you keep like a 4 marine per marauder ratio which is usually fine anyway.
Colossi are pretty slow so when you see them you can retreat and start vikings with your reactored starport, you get 2-4 before he pressures you easily.
Charge doesnt finish in time against a 3 rax MMM push generally but if it does it isn't the end of the world.
DT can be annoying but a wall-in at base + a quick tech lab swap for your starport gets a raven out reasonably fast. If they use it aagainst your army you can usually just load up all in the medivacs and run back to your wall which keeps the DT out long enough with 1 scan to get ravens.
Ie. a 3 rax push forces P to reveal their tech or lose basically and is versatile enough to handle any tech threat imo.
|
Thats just not true at all,
marines have to do a hard job dealing with 2 fully charged voidrays, wich comes along with stalker/zealot/sentry. (I mean 2/3 gate voidray) It is really really hard to hold dude. Samething is true for 3 gate dt if your enemy doesnt play brain afk. The better protoss players will spread out the dark templers, and at this point of the game you just have your scans to get rid of these dt´s.
You mean wall in can save you from that? Not true. Problems of walling in:
- probe harass is more anoying, because a helping scv needs much longer to reach the chocke
- if he does voidray, you dont have enough space to micro and voidrays can charge on your baracks / depots. loosing depots is not good at all
- loosing depot is also a problem against well played DTs (sending one dt after another, while you have to waste a scan for each of them)
I CAN agree that 3 rax MMM CAN work against these strategies, but you can never feel that save as you trying to tell us. Really not dude
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/2706/tvphidedntech.png)
![[image loading]](http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/6717/xelnaga.png)
![[image loading]](http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/2218/752pxblisteringsands1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2218/752pxblisteringsands1.jpg)
