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Tonyoh
France218 Posts
Very nice knowledge and skills ! So I have a question : how in the middle game do you counter (as a T) a protoss which has a big army and templars and know how to fedback dropship and storm your bioball. I use thors marines marauders and some vicking along with the medifvac but the protoss I played against dont use fedback. I think to turttle and bunker ( with good positionning and improved capacity) and 3 expand, while droping marauders and banshee harass is nice ^^ | ||
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Sparkxxx
United States14 Posts
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Ascalon
Germany2 Posts
just gotta say im loving ur stream, always fun and entertaining to watch. been learning some nice tactics off of ur stream and im having a good laugh at the diamond guys getting 6pooled! ofc all other games are nice to watch too! keep up the nice work ps: loving that piano music <3 | ||
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Yosho
585 Posts
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Jaytron
United States5 Posts
Love the stream, I enjoy the practice matches between you and Trump (how I found out about you). Keep up the good work! Makes me kinda want to play random.. | ||
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Yosho
585 Posts
On September 20 2010 08:50 canikizu wrote: Great stream you have there. I got a question, in zvt, when you FE, how do you decide to counter early harrassment from T? When do you use spine crawlers? When do you use speedlings? When do you use roachs? or the combine? Zergling > reaper > Roaches > Marauders > zergling. > Hellion > Roaches. I try to get a mix of both if they are mixing both. I prefer zerglings though. | ||
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Yosho
585 Posts
On September 20 2010 09:20 Tonyoh wrote: Yo, Very nice knowledge and skills ! So I have a question : how in the middle game do you counter (as a T) a protoss which has a big army and templars and know how to fedback dropship and storm your bioball. I use thors marines marauders and some vicking along with the medifvac but the protoss I played against dont use fedback. I think to turttle and bunker ( with good positionning and improved capacity) and 3 expand, while droping marauders and banshee harass is nice ^^ You need ghosts to counter templars, it's a massive micro fest. However ghost is the perfect counter for templars. | ||
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Yosho
585 Posts
On September 20 2010 09:29 Sparkxxx wrote: I am a 1200 diamond terran, whats a solid tvt and tvz build. I usually do some sort of repear opening vs zerg and i dont know how to transition too well. Also against terran, most my builds revolve around early bahsee's, are there any nice early pushes that successfully take a fast expo that you like to use? Tvt I like the 1-1-1 opening very well, it's incredibly standard. As for tvz reaper 5 racks or pre igniter hellion drops, maybe reactor hellion harass. Another fun thing is combine reapers marines and marauders then add medivacs and micro your way to victory. | ||
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Yosho
585 Posts
On September 20 2010 10:11 Ascalon wrote: Hey Yosho how u doin? just gotta say im loving ur stream, always fun and entertaining to watch. been learning some nice tactics off of ur stream and im having a good laugh at the diamond guys getting 6pooled! ofc all other games are nice to watch too! keep up the nice work ps: loving that piano music <3 Haha thanks!! | ||
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Yosho
585 Posts
Update: Zerg replay pack may be uploaded sometime soon for all you zerg players who wish to learn some of my strategies. | ||
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Roniacz
Philippines3 Posts
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Yosho
585 Posts
On September 20 2010 16:45 Roniacz wrote: Good job Yosho, keep it up. We really appreciate the help and advice (forums + stream), hope you don't quit on us!. More Power. Thank you :D | ||
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Yosho
585 Posts
As many people continue learning the strategy of the game and progress that we have made so far and the ratings go up while the more distinguished players stand out. Players such like Huk and silver, we learn many things from a 1 point of view a take from every race and position. realcun's map read, all the pro's being asked about balance from their point of view. I myself don't like to discuss much balance myself so i will talk about how improving the fundamentals of each race as I continue to play it. As most of you know recently I hurt my neck and decided to practice more of races and let my rating tank so that when i am healed I simply rise again. However I have decided to not rise as terran, for when I played it i went from 500-1500 in only a matter of 2 weeks and found it rather easy after learning the build orders that are so far out there. Most of the terran mechanics I find is very friendly; maybe not so much after the patch but the giant mule call down is powerful and the ability to mass turtle can stop those non aggressive players in their tracks. A mass turtle strategy can easily get you into diamond as people feel threatened by a defensive terran and have the urge to attack. I am by no way saying terran is easy oh no, I am saying that terran is mostly about build orders and positioning. If the zerg can't get a surround we grow that much stronger. If the protoss are forced into a funnel concave we usually win the early game out right. It isn't until collasai; storm; emp; medivacs come into play that micro is more so needed to climb higher in the ratings. The better you know how to get to these places and how to use these units the higher you will climb. from my protoss point of view I have found that if the terran out techs me to one of these things such as massive siege tanks; emp; medivacs and I don't have enough counter tech to stop it, I will die. Even a mass bio army is so strong. My take is that eventually the build orders will refine to one of three types of strategies. 1- the tech strat, trying to tech fast and hard to things like ravens. 2- the mass expansions, trying to mass out macro the enemy into submission. overwhelming the tech because of the limited amount of units. 3- the constant cheese or harrasment. very aggressive style play as you always try to cripple your opponent into submission. These strategies are very dominant today. each can counter each other if played right but it comes down to these things. Finding out a players playstyle will show you what these things are and give you a large advantage as most people stick to what they know. For example: I am a mass expander - I take many bases and force a giant macro battle that will usually take the win for me while I react to scouting information. Trump: is a tech man he likes to have all sorts of tech and can be very aggressive but not unless he has tech to match it like tanks; vikings; medivacs. Painuser: is a tech TLO: is the aggressor Which are you? I haven't mentioned zerg because it's a whole different ball play. Zerg is more reactionary and you have to combine all of these plays. Zerg is the balance between every one of them. They have to mass expand; Be very aggressive; macro up giant armies and balancing the economy with it. on top of that part of our macro play is creep. We need a lot of it. (note: I think zerg need a unit that suicides on the ground and spreads creep for a time period) If zerg lacks in expansions they die very fast as their macro HAS to be superior to every race or they stand no chance in the units battles. For every races units are stronger zerg need more of them. It is easier for the other races to tech as zerg can't just stay on limited bases. Do take note that it is not impossible for the player to keep up. But zerg takes more... harmony? More synchronization for what they need to do. Ying and yang between drones and fighting units. The difference between a terran 1,000 and 1500 is build orders and multi tasking. the difference between a protoss 1,000 and 1500 is knowing other strategies then 4 gate and positioning / when to be agressive. the difference between zerg 1,000 and 1500 is harmony. I am not saying that all toss 4 gate or all terrans are skill less. I am saying that they play a lot in the same. I reached 1500 with both protoss and terran refining build orders, macro'ing better, countering at the right times and positioning. However with zerg I find that including all these is one element that makes it unable for most players to switch to zerg. Players who admit they would like to try it but feel like it's a lot harder to play the zerg style, for many pro's have said it and admit that zerg macro is just a whole new game. With my rankings my zerg is at 1200-1300. Refining my harmony. It is easily my hardest race to learn. They are not underpowered they are just under learned. Some balance issues will probably be seen in the future though. This little thought train is meant to show you how the playstyles are different. Maybe help people pick a race. Show you the different types of strategies that may fit your type and what type your friends are so you can defeat them. It's not a balance topic. It's just talking about the playstyles we all enjoy. If you like to be strong with limited units, terran. If you like to have a mass area of effect type units. Protoss. (collasai; storm; forcefield) They can also be poweful with limited units but the styles are a little different. Terran and protoss are more of a giant micro fest between the races. If you want harmony and being everywhere at once with more of a mass type thought train, zerg. I think a lot of this may change when we see larger maps such as ICCUP maps ( my favorites ). However on blizzard maps and races. these are my thoughts. | ||
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CrayonKing
Cambodia124 Posts
first just want to say thanks for the help and keep it up! I am a ~800 Diamond Terran player so i know the basics(builds counters etc etc) but wouldnt consider myself good at all. I just had a few questions regarding specific matchups. TvP In TVP I like to hit at around 70-80 supply, just before they tech to anything that will cause me a lot of problems unless they go early tech or something...so usually it'll be a mix of lots/stalkers/sentrys maybe 1-2 immortals just coming out. As long as I dont miss micro hard core I can take on their army fairly easily. My question is: 1. What upgrades should I get for my ground unit? and should I go 1st rax reactor or tech? Really it comes down to concussive, marine hp, stim, engineering bay upgrades and I always get siege mode. Usually b y the time i hit I can have 2 upgrades. So which would you do? I like to get marine hp since I go reactor on my first rax so my marine count is a lot more ,I also like it to deal with void rays just in case. 2. What build should you go to ensure no early rush? Mass zealot etC? I usually go reactor on first rax and tech on 2nd. So usually if there is a mass zealot rush (inbetween the time my first tank comes out) I sometimes have trouble defending their push. I block with 2supply 1 rax. TvZ 1. Again if I see a standard zerg opening my first hit comes a bit earlier especialyl if they FE, maybe around 45-50 supply. So again what upgrades should I focus on for infantry? I always go siege and have been going marine HP to deal with any fast mutas. Would stim be a better option? I usually start off with 2 rax 1 fac and starport as I push out. Would it be better to go 2fac (tanks/hellions) + 1 rax(reactoR)? 2. Do you always block with 1rax 1fac? TvT 1This matchup is something I have to work on. Any general tips? It always turns into a viking/tank army. Do you get a lot of thors in your army composition when it gets late? Do you do a lot of drops? Use ghosts? Thanks for your help! | ||
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Warbreaker
United States17 Posts
i know you opened up the thread to all matchups so i have a zerg question... i feel like starcraft, like poker, the aggressor is usually in the better position... but how can zerg be aggressive without pooling 6-8? aggression means tier 1/1.5 units but the few times i tried the 5 roach rush terrans usually have maruaders and by the time i break the supply depot, i don't have enough to harass... so the only thing that's worked for me is the baneling bust... is there any other way to be aggressive? just to give you some background, i've used to always fe on every map... but then learned that small maps i can't fight zealots with a fe... and reapers/bunkers make fe hard too... so i started one basing and getting roaches to counter reapers and zealot pressure with some limited success.. but recently i've found 14gas, 14 pool into baneling bust to be super effective and have reached my highest point total ever (1000+ dia), including a 10 game win streak... i'm not too familiar with streaming but would love to watch your zerg play... but do you have other ways to be aggressive besides baneling busting? and what do you do if the bust fails? or should you never be in that position, meaning by scouting, if you see it's bust proof, don't even make banelings even though you sunk money into a nest? but then in that case, how do you be aggressive? thanks for answering! | ||
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deckuras
2 Posts
>> Response from Yosho: << The fast expand build is great on 4 player maps; very powerful. I would not recommend it as much on 2 player maps and getting a fast robo would be there in time for the banshee's. AS for the push the distance is what helps you there. This is why you want to be on a 4 player map and semi far away; the time it takes to get to your base can mean you having enough units to defend it. The build is very powerful if not scouted. If the terran goes fast expand as well; expand after you see it. try to stay 1 base ahead and macro well enough to survive. | ||
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Yosho
585 Posts
On September 21 2010 03:06 CrayonKing wrote: Hello, first just want to say thanks for the help and keep it up! I am a ~800 Diamond Terran player so i know the basics(builds counters etc etc) but wouldnt consider myself good at all. I just had a few questions regarding specific matchups. TvP In TVP I like to hit at around 70-80 supply, just before they tech to anything that will cause me a lot of problems unless they go early tech or something...so usually it'll be a mix of lots/stalkers/sentrys maybe 1-2 immortals just coming out. As long as I dont miss micro hard core I can take on their army fairly easily. My question is: 1. What upgrades should I get for my ground unit? and should I go 1st rax reactor or tech? Really it comes down to concussive, marine hp, stim, engineering bay upgrades and I always get siege mode. Usually b y the time i hit I can have 2 upgrades. So which would you do? I like to get marine hp since I go reactor on my first rax so my marine count is a lot more ,I also like it to deal with void rays just in case. 2. What build should you go to ensure no early rush? Mass zealot etC? I usually go reactor on first rax and tech on 2nd. So usually if there is a mass zealot rush (inbetween the time my first tank comes out) I sometimes have trouble defending their push. I block with 2supply 1 rax. TvZ 1. Again if I see a standard zerg opening my first hit comes a bit earlier especialyl if they FE, maybe around 45-50 supply. So again what upgrades should I focus on for infantry? I always go siege and have been going marine HP to deal with any fast mutas. Would stim be a better option? I usually start off with 2 rax 1 fac and starport as I push out. Would it be better to go 2fac (tanks/hellions) + 1 rax(reactoR)? 2. Do you always block with 1rax 1fac? TvT 1This matchup is something I have to work on. Any general tips? It always turns into a viking/tank army. Do you get a lot of thors in your army composition when it gets late? Do you do a lot of drops? Use ghosts? Thanks for your help! TvP 1. reactor if being aggressive with more marines and using marauders for slow. (gets more units) lab if you want stim faster or more marauders. (more over all army health) 2. drop a bunker and wall off. 2 bunkers if needed. TvZ 1.Watch out for banelings. (if 2 fac add a thor and some marines, feels stronger early game weaker late.) TvT. I use the standard 1-1-1 and out manuever my opponent. Some rushes will kill you fast though so make sure to have a raven and either fast siege or a bunker up at your front to defend pushes. I go marine / tank / vikings. Sometimes marauders. I also do drops yes. | ||
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Yosho
585 Posts
On September 21 2010 03:42 Warbreaker wrote: Hi, i know you opened up the thread to all matchups so i have a zerg question... i feel like starcraft, like poker, the aggressor is usually in the better position... but how can zerg be aggressive without pooling 6-8? aggression means tier 1/1.5 units but the few times i tried the 5 roach rush terrans usually have maruaders and by the time i break the supply depot, i don't have enough to harass... so the only thing that's worked for me is the baneling bust... is there any other way to be aggressive? just to give you some background, i've used to always fe on every map... but then learned that small maps i can't fight zealots with a fe... and reapers/bunkers make fe hard too... so i started one basing and getting roaches to counter reapers and zealot pressure with some limited success.. but recently i've found 14gas, 14 pool into baneling bust to be super effective and have reached my highest point total ever (1000+ dia), including a 10 game win streak... i'm not too familiar with streaming but would love to watch your zerg play... but do you have other ways to be aggressive besides baneling busting? and what do you do if the bust fails? or should you never be in that position, meaning by scouting, if you see it's bust proof, don't even make banelings even though you sunk money into a nest? but then in that case, how do you be aggressive? thanks for answering! Sometimes I get a 10 pool before my 2nd overlord and get 6 lings out to stop rushes then go into an economy build. I also get speed and slowly add lings as they are useful to any ground push. I also recommend getting a 2nd queen on smaller maps to stop void rays and banshee's. Don't worry about pushing into the base as long as they can't expand. However if you see an opening to finish him, take it. When I find the money for a new computer I will try to make vods for people. Even if you make banelings save them for later, get burrow and burrow them outside their base. blow them up when they walk over. Banelings will be useful through out the matchup. As for aggressive, build a better economy while he turtles and get some units out, prepare to surround him everytime he pushes out and keep him locked up. The more you expand the more aggressive he has to be. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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Yosho
585 Posts
On September 21 2010 07:32 Antisocialmunky wrote: How the heck do you push when playing tank-viking vs tank viking? Air control, tanks can shoot farther then they can see. So if you slowly edge forward with air control you can shoot tanks that can't shoot back unless they scan. | ||
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