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On September 15 2010 03:54 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 03:52 bobcat wrote:On September 14 2010 02:54 JiYan wrote:
very simple question: Did you pick terran because of the terran campaign? What do you think about the idea that Terran dominates the rankings due to the Terran campaign? No, just.... no. No no no no no. Terrans dont dominate the rankings. They are more prevalent in diamond because it is very easy to go 1-1-1 into marine marauder tank off 1 base and that strat reliably beats players in plat and below. I picked terran because I played sc1 terran for 10 years. I'm actually a random player. I was told #4 random player in the world.
I'm sure you're very good. My point was that terrans don't "dominate" the rankings because of campaign. I was explaining that a lot of the lower diamond T players are just good at 1-1-1 and that is why there are a dissproportionate amount of them. There are still plenty of good terran players out there who know all of the builds in upper and lower diamond.
Or you may have been agreeing with me. I cant tell, either way thanks.
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On September 15 2010 04:19 bobcat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm? It's actually very easy to do. If I souct a T player going reactor rax into 2 ports ill immediately start making templars, they wont have a big enough force to push before im done if I do it right. Esp after the tank nerf.
so to scout and react to this build youre going
1gate
core
1robo (need the observer to scout and to not die to cloak banshee)
-wait for observer to arrive at enemy base
twilight council
templar archives
2-3 templar (you want energy on them when you get storm after all)
psionic storm
well, sorry but that isnt the correct response to 2 port banshee. It's actually pretty crazy and ineffective.
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On September 15 2010 03:57 Moja wrote:
Can you upload the replays from last night? 2 in particular:
- the one against zerg (I think metalopolis) where you pulled off a great hellion drop but still ended up losing (tons of marines killed by banelings at the xel naga tower)
- the one against protoss on steppes of war where he hid a proxy stargate and went 3gate voidray push, charging the rays on the rocks before the fight at your ramp
I'd really like to study those build orders
I may be able to but those will be later tonight.. I will look into it ^^ hope you enjoyed the stream!
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On September 15 2010 04:24 bobcat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 03:54 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 03:52 bobcat wrote:On September 14 2010 02:54 JiYan wrote:
very simple question: Did you pick terran because of the terran campaign? What do you think about the idea that Terran dominates the rankings due to the Terran campaign? No, just.... no. No no no no no. Terrans dont dominate the rankings. They are more prevalent in diamond because it is very easy to go 1-1-1 into marine marauder tank off 1 base and that strat reliably beats players in plat and below. I picked terran because I played sc1 terran for 10 years. I'm actually a random player. I was told #4 random player in the world. I'm sure you're very good. My point was that terrans don't "dominate" the rankings because of campaign. I was explaining that a lot of the lower diamond T players are just good at 1-1-1 and that is why there are a dissproportionate amount of them. There are still plenty of good terran players out there who know all of the builds in upper and lower diamond. Or you may have been agreeing with me. I cant tell, either way thanks.
Haha I was agree'ing with you in a sense. More so answering your qoute as I couldn't find the actual message.
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On September 15 2010 04:26 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:19 bobcat wrote:On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm? It's actually very easy to do. If I souct a T player going reactor rax into 2 ports ill immediately start making templars, they wont have a big enough force to push before im done if I do it right. Esp after the tank nerf. so to scout and react to this build youre going 1gate core 1robo (need the observer to scout and to not die to cloak banshee) -wait for observer to arrive at enemy base twilight council templar archives 2-3 templar (you want energy on them when you get storm after all) psionic storm well, sorry but that isnt the correct response to 2 port banshee. It's actually pretty crazy and ineffective.
2 port banshee is countered by pheonix; however if you fail to win in the time it takes to get storm you may lose right there. You have to transition out of it well. Storm hits the front line where the banshee's and ground units are stacked. So you are hitting double the units, ontop of that feedback is killer against banshee's.
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On September 15 2010 04:26 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:19 bobcat wrote:On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm? It's actually very easy to do. If I souct a T player going reactor rax into 2 ports ill immediately start making templars, they wont have a big enough force to push before im done if I do it right. Esp after the tank nerf. so to scout and react to this build youre going 1gate core 1robo (need the observer to scout and to not die to cloak banshee) -wait for observer to arrive at enemy base twilight council templar archives 2-3 templar (you want energy on them when you get storm after all) psionic storm well, sorry but that isnt the correct response to 2 port banshee. It's actually pretty crazy and ineffective.
If your opponent is running banshees, ravens, vikings with marines, how are templar a bad route to go? Feedback/storm banshees, strom rines, vikings are ineffective, add 4 or 5 zealots with a fair group of stalkers and you shouldn't have any problems. How do you counter massive air? Phoneix obs? Speedrays? I welcome a better alternative, but mine works just fine. Also, having an observer in your opponents base leaves the build open to flexibility, if you see all 2 tech lab ports, obviously make a phoenix or three. If however you see marine tank with medivacs and a few banshees, templar is definitely the right hammer for that nail.
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On September 15 2010 04:31 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:26 ChickenLips wrote:On September 15 2010 04:19 bobcat wrote:On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm? It's actually very easy to do. If I souct a T player going reactor rax into 2 ports ill immediately start making templars, they wont have a big enough force to push before im done if I do it right. Esp after the tank nerf. so to scout and react to this build youre going 1gate core 1robo (need the observer to scout and to not die to cloak banshee) -wait for observer to arrive at enemy base twilight council templar archives 2-3 templar (you want energy on them when you get storm after all) psionic storm well, sorry but that isnt the correct response to 2 port banshee. It's actually pretty crazy and ineffective. 2 port banshee is countered by pheonix; however if you fail to win in the time it takes to get storm you may lose right there. You have to transition out of it well. Storm hits the front line where the banshee's and ground units are stacked. So you are hitting double the units, ontop of that feedback is killer against banshee's.
THANK YOU!
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On September 15 2010 04:40 bobcat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:26 ChickenLips wrote:On September 15 2010 04:19 bobcat wrote:On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm? It's actually very easy to do. If I souct a T player going reactor rax into 2 ports ill immediately start making templars, they wont have a big enough force to push before im done if I do it right. Esp after the tank nerf. so to scout and react to this build youre going 1gate core 1robo (need the observer to scout and to not die to cloak banshee) -wait for observer to arrive at enemy base twilight council templar archives 2-3 templar (you want energy on them when you get storm after all) psionic storm well, sorry but that isnt the correct response to 2 port banshee. It's actually pretty crazy and ineffective. If your opponent is running banshees, ravens, vikings with marines, how are templar a bad route to go? Feedback/storm banshees, strom rines, vikings are ineffective, add 4 or 5 zealots with a fair group of stalkers and you shouldn't have any problems. How do you counter massive air? Phoneix obs? Speedrays? I welcome a better alternative, but mine works just fine. Also, having an observer in your opponents base leaves the build open to flexibility, if you see all 2 tech lab ports, obviously make a phoenix or three. If however you see marine tank with medivacs and a few banshees, templar is definitely the right hammer for that nail.
Pretty accurate information; depends on the setting and so on but mostly accurate.
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So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this?
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On September 15 2010 04:44 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:40 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 04:26 ChickenLips wrote:On September 15 2010 04:19 bobcat wrote:On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm? It's actually very easy to do. If I souct a T player going reactor rax into 2 ports ill immediately start making templars, they wont have a big enough force to push before im done if I do it right. Esp after the tank nerf. so to scout and react to this build youre going 1gate core 1robo (need the observer to scout and to not die to cloak banshee) -wait for observer to arrive at enemy base twilight council templar archives 2-3 templar (you want energy on them when you get storm after all) psionic storm well, sorry but that isnt the correct response to 2 port banshee. It's actually pretty crazy and ineffective. If your opponent is running banshees, ravens, vikings with marines, how are templar a bad route to go? Feedback/storm banshees, strom rines, vikings are ineffective, add 4 or 5 zealots with a fair group of stalkers and you shouldn't have any problems. How do you counter massive air? Phoneix obs? Speedrays? I welcome a better alternative, but mine works just fine. Also, having an observer in your opponents base leaves the build open to flexibility, if you see all 2 tech lab ports, obviously make a phoenix or three. If however you see marine tank with medivacs and a few banshees, templar is definitely the right hammer for that nail. Pretty accurate information; depends on the setting and so on but mostly accurate.
I mean yeah on a map like blistering sands or kulas where there are 2 base entrances I'll go for a hard early 4 gate push +1 immortal and just keep juggling attack points until I can get into his base and punish the fast tech. But against a 1 ramp terran it has been burned into my brain that I cannot be agressive in the early game without losing the game.
Which leads me to a question for you Vegasminion, when you play against a toss player on a map with 1 ramp into your base like Lost Temple or Metalopolis, have you ever run into a player who successfully pressured you early game without going all in?
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On September 15 2010 04:45 Vegasminion wrote:
So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this?
Blizz posted something about their top 200 ranked players, you might be on that list.
EDIT: Found it, you're 102
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/789458
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On September 15 2010 04:56 bobcat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:44 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 04:40 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 04:26 ChickenLips wrote:On September 15 2010 04:19 bobcat wrote:On September 14 2010 09:47 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:On September 14 2010 06:50 Vegasminion wrote:On September 14 2010 06:11 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
how do you lose to protoss if you do like 1 reactor rax 1 factory for hellions and 2 ports to deal with w/e if left (banshees+raven for stalkers vikings for the rest of toss air) if you give them time to get storm, storm counters this build heavily. who the hell gives you time to get storm? It's actually very easy to do. If I souct a T player going reactor rax into 2 ports ill immediately start making templars, they wont have a big enough force to push before im done if I do it right. Esp after the tank nerf. so to scout and react to this build youre going 1gate core 1robo (need the observer to scout and to not die to cloak banshee) -wait for observer to arrive at enemy base twilight council templar archives 2-3 templar (you want energy on them when you get storm after all) psionic storm well, sorry but that isnt the correct response to 2 port banshee. It's actually pretty crazy and ineffective. If your opponent is running banshees, ravens, vikings with marines, how are templar a bad route to go? Feedback/storm banshees, strom rines, vikings are ineffective, add 4 or 5 zealots with a fair group of stalkers and you shouldn't have any problems. How do you counter massive air? Phoneix obs? Speedrays? I welcome a better alternative, but mine works just fine. Also, having an observer in your opponents base leaves the build open to flexibility, if you see all 2 tech lab ports, obviously make a phoenix or three. If however you see marine tank with medivacs and a few banshees, templar is definitely the right hammer for that nail. Pretty accurate information; depends on the setting and so on but mostly accurate. I mean yeah on a map like blistering sands or kulas where there are 2 base entrances I'll go for a hard early 4 gate push +1 immortal and just keep juggling attack points until I can get into his base and punish the fast tech. But against a 1 ramp terran it has been burned into my brain that I cannot be agressive in the early game without losing the game. Which leads me to a question for you Vegasminion, when you play against a toss player on a map with 1 ramp into your base like Lost Temple or Metalopolis, have you ever run into a player who successfully pressured you early game without going all in?
When I try a fast expand build yes; You really can try to do something aggressive with your first immortal if you 1 gate into robo then a 2nd gate. Stay out his ramp and try to snipe units / buildings with an observer. maybe see if he has bunkers up. If he doesn't you may be able to just break him.
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On September 15 2010 04:58 bobcat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:45 Vegasminion wrote:
So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this? Blizz posted something about their top 200 ranked players, you might be on that list.
I know I am at the 102 in the top 200 but I didn't see anything about global.
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On September 15 2010 05:02 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 04:58 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 04:45 Vegasminion wrote:
So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this? Blizz posted something about their top 200 ranked players, you might be on that list. I know I am at the 102 in the top 200 but I didn't see anything about global.
Dunno, but you're 4th random on that list so gj.
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On September 15 2010 05:04 bobcat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 05:02 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 04:58 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 04:45 Vegasminion wrote:
So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this? Blizz posted something about their top 200 ranked players, you might be on that list. I know I am at the 102 in the top 200 but I didn't see anything about global. Dunno, but you're 4th random on that list so gj.
I can't take credit if I don't know it's true! :D
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On September 15 2010 05:07 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 05:04 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 05:02 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 04:58 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 04:45 Vegasminion wrote:
So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this? Blizz posted something about their top 200 ranked players, you might be on that list. I know I am at the 102 in the top 200 but I didn't see anything about global. Dunno, but you're 4th random on that list so gj. lol can't take credit if I don't know it's true!
http://sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/diamond/1/random/points/0
Third in US / Fourth in world with only 10 points to second (probably not true anymore)
Most of my losses are late game (or super early game) when I am in a lead but I somehow manage to throw away the game by just not being experienced enough above 150 supply. Do you have some tactics or tips you can give me what to pay special attention to in order to secure a win when in a lead? Just general frame of mind and what to look out for, what to do stuff etc. Thank you!
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Oh dam. Go me ^^ thanks for the info.
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On September 15 2010 05:13 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 05:07 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 05:04 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 05:02 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 04:58 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 04:45 Vegasminion wrote:
So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this? Blizz posted something about their top 200 ranked players, you might be on that list. I know I am at the 102 in the top 200 but I didn't see anything about global. Dunno, but you're 4th random on that list so gj. lol can't take credit if I don't know it's true! http://sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/diamond/1/random/points/0Third in US / Fourth in world with only 10 points to second (probably not true anymore) Most of my losses are late game (or super early game) when I am in a lead but I somehow manage to throw away the game by just not being experienced enough above 150 supply. Do you have some tactics or tips you can give me what to pay special attention to in order to secure a win when in a lead? Just general frame of mind and what to look out for, what to do stuff etc. Thank you!
I need a more idea of what you mean; as in what race is this against? All?
If it's against terran at that stage it's positioning and map control; keep them strong.
If it's against protoss stay on even bases and be very careful not to mis position your army. Army position is very key. If he's storming a lot try to get a sneak emp. This comes down to a lot of micro and army composition. while maintaining your macro.
If it's against zerg; snipe bases but never make it so he can 1-a your main base. The zerg has to surround you here to really get you; hug edges with your marines behind units un attainable; drop often to snipe mains. make 3-4 reapers just to go mineral harass.
I need more detail my friend.
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On September 15 2010 05:20 Vegasminion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 05:13 ChickenLips wrote:On September 15 2010 05:07 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 05:04 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 05:02 Vegasminion wrote:On September 15 2010 04:58 bobcat wrote:On September 15 2010 04:45 Vegasminion wrote:
So I've been getting messages that I have been marked as the #4 random player in the world but I can't find this information; where are you all finding this? Blizz posted something about their top 200 ranked players, you might be on that list. I know I am at the 102 in the top 200 but I didn't see anything about global. Dunno, but you're 4th random on that list so gj. lol can't take credit if I don't know it's true! http://sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/diamond/1/random/points/0Third in US / Fourth in world with only 10 points to second (probably not true anymore) Most of my losses are late game (or super early game) when I am in a lead but I somehow manage to throw away the game by just not being experienced enough above 150 supply. Do you have some tactics or tips you can give me what to pay special attention to in order to secure a win when in a lead? Just general frame of mind and what to look out for, what to do stuff etc. Thank you! I need a more idea of what you mean; as in what race is this against? All? If it's against terran at that stage it's positioning and map control; keep them strong. If it's against protoss stay on even bases and be very careful not to mis position your army. Army position is very key. If he's storming a lot try to get a sneak emp. This comes down to a lot of micro and army composition. while maintaining your macro. If it's against zerg; snipe bases but never make it so he can 1-a your main base. The zerg has to surround you here to really get you; hug edges with your marines behind units un attainable; drop often to snipe mains. make 3-4 reapers just to go mineral harass. I need more detail my friend.
Wow. I wrote a fairly ambiguous post and you already pointed out EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THING i was doing wrong.
Against Protoss I would be like 40 food ahead trying to snipe off Nexi while he just warps in templar to slowly but surely whittle down my army. I always forget to position my army correctly, I just macro and let the rally command take care of it and then lose half my army to templar + colossus before I can even react properly.
Against Zerg I manage to maintain map control with mech (mainly tanks and hellions plus maybe a stray thor for baneling soaking) + MMM + bunkers & turrets in front of his base until he just goes tier 3 and a move rapes my army. I have to be way more active about harassing in all matchups. It's so simple. Almost every time i harass I win lol
Day9 said in his recent daily that even if scourge controlled air in BW, Flash would just force the drops to work by doing some tactic. Do you think such drop forcing is possible or do you just have general pointers / tips / timings for dropping? It's so effective and yet I almost never get myself to do it since there's always something else on the agenda (omg need to survive, omg need those medivacs, omg need to expand / macro we)
Thanks again 
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EPT
