EPTalso, to charlie42024, I found your comment to be especially unhelpful and rude. Sure I'm in bronze but if I have made a build that holds its own against all the other builds I've encountered before encountering this including the usual cheese....with queens no less, I don't see why asking for transition idea's or tactics is being stubborn.
Help: Zerg VS Archons - Page 2
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Asmodeaus
Canada6 Posts
also, to charlie42024, I found your comment to be especially unhelpful and rude. Sure I'm in bronze but if I have made a build that holds its own against all the other builds I've encountered before encountering this including the usual cheese....with queens no less, I don't see why asking for transition idea's or tactics is being stubborn. | ||
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ViPer[RuSh]
Netherlands11 Posts
I can't think of a Protoss who would have 8-10 Archons in a game without you letting him build up. Do you have a replay? Timings are scout dependant, do you scout enough? Do you expand enough? I don't want to be rude, but winning in bronze (apart from the cheese stuff there) should be easy with only a standard build/ and keeping your macro up. Next time please save a replay, and let us comment on that. | ||
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Demus
Netherlands305 Posts
Note: this is assuming he warped in the archons before sending them on the field as HT's. If he is using HT's, use a force of zerglings / muta's to bait him into using his energy, and move in when he's started morphing. Broodlords, as previously mentioned, also help, but you need to start those way ahead of the confrontation. Scout him from time to time, see what he's building up. See a templars archive? Go broods. Multiple stargates? Corrupter / ling (lings to hit the mineral lines when your corrupters are engaging his air). Robo? Get mutalisks. Mass gateway? Ultra+hydra. You're a zerg, outmacro him  On that note, on how many bases were you? A solid contain is a very good reason to start expansions, in the given situation you should be on a minimum of 3 mining bases, and that's assuming your main is mined out (so 4 bases total, 70+ drones). | ||
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Tangsta
Australia68 Posts
roach hydra really is the best option when tempar tech come into play though I'd say beating him in upgrades will also be an important factor since guardian shield can make archons a pain to take down | ||
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sikyon
Canada1045 Posts
I'd just say roaches, honestly. | ||
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Pwere
Canada1557 Posts
Since NP has been nerfed into the ground, and Blizzard seems to have no intention to fix it, stick with Fungal Growth + Hydras or BroodLords. | ||
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DreamSailor
Canada433 Posts
Recently I've been going Chargelot/Archon (Occasionally completely skipping HT tech all together, and using the gas for HT for Straight Archons and Upgrades) I think at +2 weapons, Mutas die in 3 hits to Archons. And if he goes hard mutas, he won't have enough ground to fight your Zealots, and there was a thread earlier stating weapon upgrade "milestones" and I think at +3 they one shot workers, which is kinda awesome. Archons are actually awesome vs. Zerg, because they -always- get their damage bonus, Hydras really are probably your best option. Banelings aren't that good against Zealots (Takes like 3 to kill one) Hydras have high damage potential, but fall to a zealot charge pretty fast. Ultras while good against Zealots, take forever to come out, and even longer replace when they fall. With warpgates, you can replace HT very quickly for Storms and new Archons (I think its a 55second cooldown for a HT gate, + the archon warp time), but if you have Khaydarin you storm then you can warp them. | ||
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broke
39 Posts
Archons are also not armored, so ultralisks have to attack 24 times to clear through them... Don't shields take full damage from everything, so ultralisks will use their armored attack damage on archons? | ||
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RoarMan
Canada745 Posts
I mean it's not easy to do but it's not difficulty either, with some practice Archons become nothing but expensive cannon fodder. EDIT: Yeah to all those people flaming, there is absolutley nothing in the Zerg arsenal that is cost effective against archons. When Archons start to reach critical mass which is basically 4+ the cost effectiveness starts getting tremendously bad which at that point I must insist on Fungal Growth. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On August 31 2010 17:44 Asmodeaus wrote: Well thanks to some of you for not being too hard on me especially Zanez.smarty, cause that sounds about what my usual opponent who does this is like. But myesh, i've started transitioning to broodlords earlier and getting a few more hydras, he still beat me but i held my ground alot better i think i just need the timings down a bit better as my initial push wasn't as strong. also, to charlie42024, I found your comment to be especially unhelpful and rude. Sure I'm in bronze but if I have made a build that holds its own against all the other builds I've encountered before encountering this including the usual cheese....with queens no less, I don't see why asking for transition idea's or tactics is being stubborn. It is being stubborn because the fact that you are in bronze suggests your build is bad, or you are exceedingly terrible at its execution. Probably both, but probably your build is bad too. How about we play a number of games in a row and see how your build that you made holds up? I change my build all the time when I discover various timing changes from people who are better. Dunno why you are so stubborn in thinking that your build is so good. Anyways, not really commenting on your build because that has nothing to do with the question posed. What I am curious about is why you mention that build and then ask how to use it against a build that is so far down the line that it is ridiculous. 6 roaches and 8 lings at 6-7 minutes (somehow I have a feeling it is closer to 7 than 6...) says nothing about what you will have someone like 9 minutes later when his push actually comes. Besides, if he's going that gas heavy he will have pretty much no stalkers unless he wants to delay his push even more. Given that, your roaches should be able to prevent him from expanding so long as you match his army. If you do that, he gets forced into stalker and his push will probably come 10-11 minutes after you arrive at his base. In this meantime you could probably win even with blind roach macro. Another thing that doesn't make any sense. You say Archon/HT/Sentry. Where are all his minerals going? Does he come with a lot of zealots too? Fungal will destroy that. Hell, they'll destroy the archons too. You should be able to at least get 3 bases fully running and produce a large army by the time he comes with the main push, even if you are in bronze. Don't see how this can be hard unless he is going zealot/sentry early push transitioning in HT. And if he does that, why even get archons unless the zerg is blindly massing ling. In fact, if he does that he won't be able to do jack shit vs muta. Just hold with roaches and destroy his mineral line with either muta, or if you want to be cute, with burrowed roaches. Summary - unless you provide a replay, I am going to believe that the real reason you can't hold this off is not because of the unit composition but because your economy goes to hell during early zealot/sentry harass and you do not know how to deal with it. | ||
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dNo_O
United States233 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On September 01 2010 00:10 DreamSailor wrote: Archons are incredibly powerful. Recently I've been going Chargelot/Archon (Occasionally completely skipping HT tech all together, and using the gas for HT for Straight Archons and Upgrades) I think at +2 weapons, Mutas die in 3 hits to Archons. And if he goes hard mutas, he won't have enough ground to fight your Zealots, and there was a thread earlier stating weapon upgrade "milestones" and I think at +3 they one shot workers, which is kinda awesome. Archons are actually awesome vs. Zerg, because they -always- get their damage bonus, Hydras really are probably your best option. Banelings aren't that good against Zealots (Takes like 3 to kill one) Hydras have high damage potential, but fall to a zealot charge pretty fast. Ultras while good against Zealots, take forever to come out, and even longer replace when they fall. With warpgates, you can replace HT very quickly for Storms and new Archons (I think its a 55second cooldown for a HT gate, + the archon warp time), but if you have Khaydarin you storm then you can warp them. Dies amazingly easily to fungal even if you spread them out. | ||
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DreamSailor
Canada433 Posts
On September 01 2010 00:39 EtherealDeath wrote: Dies amazingly easily to fungal even if you spread them out. I always forget infestors, I really need to start using them in my Zerg matchups. Luckily, I haven't played against many good players with infestors, and most of the ones that I do go for Neural parasite over fungal. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On September 01 2010 00:42 DreamSailor wrote: I always forget infestors, I really need to start using them in my Zerg matchups. Luckily, I haven't played against many good players with infestors, and most of the ones that I do go for Neural parasite over fungal. Lucky you :< | ||
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Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
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Thoreezhea1
United States532 Posts
2) you should probably get brood lords and upgrade them a couple of times. 3) compliment with cracklings/blings. (adrenal meta lings and centrifugal and melee upgrade. 4) make sure to get ovseers to kill obs. NOTE: if you upgrade the melee damage at evo chamber, the lings, blings, and broodlings do more damage as well. | ||
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Juvator
Netherlands199 Posts
they are just an addition to a force because ur HT is useless elseway they shouldnt be main force.. and being affraid of feedback being used against ur infestors in a bronze ?? no way anyone is gonna use that... in platinum I've rarely even seen it being used lol -_- not that its not good .. feedback is awesome. use the fungal growth and u should be allright | ||
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chinaski.chinaski
Russian Federation81 Posts
Fungal Growth is pretty nice, since their range is so bad. this | ||
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Thrasymachus725
Canada527 Posts
On September 01 2010 00:23 broke wrote: Don't shields take full damage from everything, so ultralisks will use their armored attack damage on archons? No, this is how it is in Brood War, but in SC2, Shields take on the properties of the units. Archons are neither armored or light, so their shields are neither armored or light. On September 01 2010 01:14 Juvator wrote: hmm reading that ur bronze ( no offense) but archons are crap .. in higher league's people really only use them when HT has no more energy. they are just an addition to a force because ur HT is useless elseway they shouldnt be main force.. and being affraid of feedback being used against ur infestors in a bronze ?? no way anyone is gonna use that... in platinum I've rarely even seen it being used lol -_- not that its not good .. feedback is awesome. use the fungal growth and u should be allright In all honesty, I have doubts that you have seen too many Archons. MASSING Archons is terrible, yes, but having 2 or 3 in an army to absorb shots and deal damage (NEVER underestimate the damage an Archon can do to Zerg or Bioball) is a wonderful idea and I have done very well with it. Oh, and I am a very strong mid diamond player. It is certainly rare to see Archons used, but that doesn't mean it is a bad idea... it simply means people haven't figured them out yet. Splash from Archons, combined with Feedback on Infestors and Psistorm for splash and Zealots for distance control (Archons can shoot over top of Zealots making very strong DPS). Don't underestimate this. | ||
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tetramaster
Canada253 Posts
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