[D] Why people hate TvT so much ? - Page 4

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Chronopolis

Canada1484 Posts

August 21 2010 03:25 GMT

#61

On August 20 2010 23:01 bluesoup wrote:

Show nested quote +

Isn't this like banging your head against a (tank/viking) wall. Embrace it brothers, it is the way forward in TvT...

It's like banging your head against the collosus wall of pvp.

Voyager I

United States260 Posts

August 21 2010 03:27 GMT

#62

On August 21 2010 12:19 Jermstuddog wrote:
Simple answer?

Most people hate TvT because vikings have too much range.

Cut them down to 7 range where turrets can come into play, and now you can make all kinds of moves that open up.

I'm not sure how much that would help. The Vikings can still see further than your Turrets can shoot, which is all they need to do to fulfill their purpose.

That said, I still think TvT is the best of the mirror matchups. It's annoying when the game takes 15 minutes to win and half an hour to end, but it's still better than PvP or ZvZ.

Sexpistolz

2 Posts

August 21 2010 04:39 GMT

#63

30 minute TvT = a bad player. The quote that is takes skill to beat a skill-less build is laughable as it just claims that you are unskilled (if you were you wouldn't have an issue right?). People put way too much focus into build orders and army composition. This may be a winning factor at bronze but in the higher leagues it's the better skilled player that wins.

How to beat t/v you ask? Just to get some of your gears turning: #1 harass. For some reason Terran players just don't do it enough aside from a reaper opening. Terran has (imo) the best harassing capability being that every unit par from marines can do it, and you don't need many to be effective with it. why harass? Because your opponent has 2 options: do nothing about it or add preventive defenses to harassment. If he does nothing, then you gain economic superiority, meaning you can trade blow for blow 1:1 and you'll be able to field an army/replenish faster and bigger than his. If he adds defenses against it, he is taking resources away from his main army which means yours will be stronger than his.

The problem of prolonged TvT match-ups is that T players like to march their army next to the other's and circle jerk instead of attack. If he's spread out, spearhead right into him. If he's clumped, harass, flank, MAKE THE INITIATE, this will win you games and drop that game timer guaranteed. Yes, this requires a lot of micro. Maybe because I come to SC2 from DoWII (which is ALL micro based) I'm used to this style of play, but I have not encountered an extended game because of this (for the exception of the d-bag that wants to play "hide the supply depot" for 5 minutes) <-- almost sounds dirty

Lastly I question the dislike of what I have come to understand as "cheese" or "all-in" builds. Do these require skill to pull off? yes. Are they highly risky? yes. But if it wasn't for these builds would players ever have to worry about a 6 pool or a proxy rush? Does it not force players to effectively scout and challenge their skill level? To me it's like bluffing in poker. Takes a mix of skill and luck to pull off, and it keeps the game interesting. Quite a few of these effective against a player going gas heavy. I advise using them every now and then.

PS: don't we play SC to have fun? If something is boring then why do it?. This reminds me of the term "cheap". Some probably know of the article I refer to where players call something "cheap" because they make up imaginary rules that their opponent isn't playing by. Like the player in Mortal Combat that does the same move over and over, and is called "cheap" because the losing player thinks he's playing a game where you have to use a mixture of combos and special moves to defeat your opponent. Know what happens? Some one comes along and finds a counter and that becomes the trend and so on. Luckily this is an RTS and there are plenty of options to choose from, just gotta use that thing nestled on your shoulders. GL HF keep gaming!

warmGun

United States57 Posts

August 21 2010 04:58 GMT

#64

TvT is definitely the most diverse mirror matchup. Certain fast banshee builds allow you to be aggressive while still being safe against standard early tank plays by allowing you to contain your opponent and expand yourself. Then i usually transition into marauder thor, which just feels way more fun than tank viking. I think there is soo much diversity in this matchup that many people havent been exploring at all that keeps the game from becoming t/v.

Sitizen

United States34 Posts

August 21 2010 08:54 GMT

#65

I really enjoy TvT, sure you have to have a solid tank/viking base, but you can incorporate every unit and structure in the terran arsenal once you've established tank/viking equality. I think people just don't like it because the games are long and they are used to 10-15minute wins with a hard counter.

EleanorRIgby

Canada3923 Posts

August 21 2010 08:59 GMT

#66

it seems the general population always lags behind the top players in strategies and really just copy what they see

tvt is not a tank viking war at all anymore. it was for like a month but now infantry has made a strong comeback and all kinds of maraudor/thor/banshee builds as well. Almost all the IEM games so far are not tank viking and tvt just keeps on evolving. Quite an amazing matchup really.

Hyronious

New Zealand9 Posts

August 21 2010 09:39 GMT

#67

I used to hate tvt. Long boring games with pretty much no attacking bar a couple of viking harasses until one player gets bored and does something stupid or manages to secure an expo more than their opponent.

Recently however, I always ask at the start of a TvT whether it is ok if we play without siege tech. Tanks still allowed, but no sieging. It makes the game a lot more fun, with hellions becoming a brilliant unit to draw some fire from the bio/thor armies sitting around the map. Thors themselves become the most powerful and game-changing unit in the armies, and suddenly the armies are mobile. Also, ravens and banshees get a real chance to shine, being able to out-maneuver the ground army while not being incredibly difficult to get enough gas for, now that the 125 gas tanks are out of the way.

Anyway, just thought I would add my 2 cents. Or whatever the saying is...

Panoptic

United Kingdom515 Posts

August 21 2010 10:03 GMT

#68

I swear lately the amount of people trying cloaked banshees has increased...kinda annoying. I've been building a raven first on my starport for banshee detection and pdd. With pdd it doesn't matter if I have less vikings (i'll soon enough add another starport), but it also negates marauder shells.

PositiveZero

United States39 Posts

August 21 2010 11:26 GMT

#69

People put too much emphasis on the tank viking mechanic. Early game TvT ill usually do a bio push+stim backed up with tanks and I'll follow it up with regular tank/viking play which I then move into viking/BC, its all about variety in this match up and if I dont use the full range of options that terran has to offer, like cloak, ravens, marines and thors I'm usually bound to lose.

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[D] Why people hate TvT so much ? - Page 4

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