On August 21 2010 22:52 shrinkmaster wrote: Would love to see additional replays of this style against mid-diamond and higher players. Especially if they survive the first push.
I edited the OP with 4 replays from yesterday where the game goes long. =D Not the highest quality of replays, but it gives a good idea how the game goes if the rush succeeds a little or just fails outright.
Here are 2 of my replays. We are both mid Diamond players, nothing extraordinary. My friend usually plays Terran, and he is looking to get his PvZ game up.
First replays goes by the standard build, second a little differently. I scout zealot pressure and have to delay my roaches temporarily.
I watched all the replays and tried this build in 9 games, losing 2, both against 2 gate. I'm a gold league player so I guess my roach micro sucks, but I have to say neither game was even close - the protoss just had many many zealots. Perhaps I should give up on the first assault when I see the 2 gate.
Other than that I really like it. I have to say it's quite nice to be the one piling on the early pressure.
On August 22 2010 02:29 barrykp wrote: I watched all the replays and tried this build in 9 games, losing 2, both against 2 gate. I'm a gold league player so I guess my roach micro sucks, but I have to say neither game was even close - the protoss just had many many zealots. Perhaps I should give up on the first assault when I see the 2 gate.
Other than that I really like it. I have to say it's quite nice to be the one piling on the early pressure.
I'm confused as to why you would have trouble against zealots with this build.
On August 22 2010 01:40 Magnebula wrote: Here are 2 of my replays. We are both mid Diamond players, nothing extraordinary. My friend usually plays Terran, and he is looking to get his PvZ game up.
First replays goes by the standard build, second a little differently. I scout zealot pressure and have to delay my roaches temporarily.
Any advice/comments welcome
Thanks for the replays!
Game 1: Your macro is good, but you tech to lair way too early. Need to work on your unit control, especially your zergling surrounds. Right-click past your target, then when the target is engulfed you hit stop or attack-move. The early spine crawler simply isn't necessary.
Game 2: Your roach warren completes like 1 second after you start making a ton of zerglings. >< If you stuck to the original plan this game is over immediately as he's so invested in zealots. Same problem in G2 as in G1: you tech to lair and get your second gas way too soon. Then when you have him on the ropes, you stop the pressure for some reason. Didn't watch after minute 16, but there weren't enough drones made either especially considering you killed so many in your attack.
5RR AGAINST A 2-GATE
The 2-gate zealots will get to your base just before the roaches are done (depending on the map and positions), but after your roaches are complete it's a one-sided ass kicking. You have to stall for about 10 seconds. Just run away if nothing else. The zealots can't catch your queen or drones, and they can't take down an important building in that time either.
Do you have any more T reps? I tried this for 2 games, the protoss one went really well against 1 gate cyber opening. The other was against T, and I didn't pull it off right but he opened with 2 raxes and I didnt really do much on the attack. Then my transition was really bad and I didnt build enough army for his bio tank push. I'm wonder if I failed or the build works more against P. Thanks a lot for posting it, I need these kind of aggressive openings to improve my game I think.
On August 22 2010 02:46 barrykp wrote: did I not mention I suck? each time when I pushed with 5 roaches + 2 lings they got annihilated by a lot of zealots
To kill Zealots with roaches.
Find your H key. Make sure that it's still bound to your "hold" hot key binding.
run away from the zealots with your roaches, then hit H, fire once, then run away again. Let's say the fire cooldown is 1.5 seconds ( I have no idea) run for 1.49 seconds, hit H, then KEEP RUNNING. You will kill infinite zealots with 5 roaches with this micro. Learn it, love it, live it.
-edit
If he chooses to ignore your roaches, dance back and forth, shoot back away, move forward shoot, back away, move forwards etc etc. Soon as he gives chase.. go back to using the H key as your "fire key" while running away.
Looks like a great build I want to try out. I support you in the face of people claiming it would only work on crappy opponents, they clearly can't read that you are facing diamond players with this. However, I am a relative SC newb, and am just working my way into silver. at this level, there are a lot of wall ins that involve lots of cannons or bunkers. Is the correct response to that using this build to just back off, power drones, and try to outmacro them? Or do I try to break thru before they can tech up and come at me with rays or banshees?
On August 22 2010 04:26 mrgoldenbrown wrote: Looks like a great build I want to try out. I support you in the face of people claiming it would only work on crappy opponents, they clearly can't read that you are facing diamond players with this. However, I am a relative SC newb, and am just working my way into silver. at this level, there are a lot of wall ins that involve lots of cannons or bunkers. Is the correct response to that using this build to just back off, power drones, and try to outmacro them? Or do I try to break thru before they can tech up and come at me with rays or banshees?
If your early zerglings spot 1-base cannons/bunkers, just power-drone. It's when your opponent tries to fast expand with cannons/bunkers where you'll want to rush. By rushing into their cannons, you actually make their strategy correct because their cannons are getting use. But by making more workers and expanding, their static defense actually hurts them because they can't punish you.
If your early zerglings spot 1-base cannons/bunkers, just power-drone.
Man, I wish I knew that before I finished my assesment. I still won, but yeah, using 5RR against bunkers did not work. Was able to get through, but my zerglings came in too late.
But the thing w/ this build was its definitely not an all in. I was still able to expand and amass a few more units, Won via backdoor by getting some roaches on the rocks and finishing off w/ mass muta.
On August 22 2010 01:40 Magnebula wrote: Here are 2 of my replays. We are both mid Diamond players, nothing extraordinary. My friend usually plays Terran, and he is looking to get his PvZ game up.
First replays goes by the standard build, second a little differently. I scout zealot pressure and have to delay my roaches temporarily.
Any advice/comments welcome
Thanks for the replays!
Game 1: Your macro is good, but you tech to lair way too early. Need to work on your unit control, especially your zergling surrounds. Right-click past your target, then when the target is engulfed you hit stop or attack-move. The early spine crawler simply isn't necessary.
Game 2: Your roach warren completes like 1 second after you start making a ton of zerglings. >< If you stuck to the original plan this game is over immediately as he's so invested in zealots. Same problem in G2 as in G1: you tech to lair and get your second gas way too soon. Then when you have him on the ropes, you stop the pressure for some reason. Didn't watch after minute 16, but there weren't enough drones made either especially considering you killed so many in your attack.
5RR AGAINST A 2-GATE
The 2-gate zealots will get to your base just before the roaches are done (depending on the map and positions), but after your roaches are complete it's a one-sided ass kicking. You have to stall for about 10 seconds. Just run away if nothing else. The zealots can't catch your queen or drones, and they can't take down an important building in that time either.
My main problem is, and as dumb as it may sound (since its the whole point of this build...), is remembering to drop the roach warren on time, especially if I'm tied up making sure their scout is gone/dead. i built that spine in game 1 because i thought he was going to try to counter (he likes to play that way). As for game 2, He had quite a few stalkers and I figured at that point, with the cannons, I wouldnt be able to break through again so I teched. I shouldn't have left that one pylon up, but I did and it kept the game going. I did realize I didn't have enough drones and just pumped out more. Mass mutas and harass followed, leading to a win.
I never know when its a good time to tech to lair, or when to grab my 2nd gas.
I dont know if Idra followed the exact BO but the unit composition early roach rush is definately there.
As a T this is the new strats that are giving me hell
No, the BO wasn't even close to this. IdrA does later roaches only because he sees that Tarson really doesn't want to transition out of reapers. Roaches are only good en masse when Terran strays into really imbalanced compositions like pure hellions or pure reapers.
Right now it looks like mass reapers are in fashion at the top.
What do I do if I am using this build and he 4 gates into mass stalkers + a few zealots? Do I just have to macro perfectly and put up a few spine crawlers?
Well after maybe 20 games trying this I got promoted to platinum! I guess I should be pleased, although the build perhaps deserves more credit than I do. Anyway kudos for coming up with it
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-141201.jpg)
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