EPT[G] 5 Roach Rush: early game without the all-in - Page 6
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WarChimp
Australia943 Posts
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claricorp
Canada142 Posts
when i was testing my old build(12 pool roach) i found that it would absolutely destroy terran 1/1/1 builds since they simply couldnt have enough strong counters to roaches out in time. Though the great thing about roaches is there fantastic ability to simply hold the line, especially with a small spattering of ranged support. My build was based more on using the roaches to get an early expansion up quite safely while under pressure from barracks pushes, hellions, zealot stalker combos and all manner of zergling, baneling or roach combinations another zerg player is using. | ||
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brinbran
United States52 Posts
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DeltruS
Canada2214 Posts
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phfantunes
Brazil170 Posts
You seem to have a reasonable number of losses, can you say what caused most of them if they're related to the build? Was it poor transition out of this opening, a certain counter attack, a specific opening, cheese, whatever? | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
These builds get hell from people who shouldn't be talking shit. I'll give it a shot and TYVM for sharing. | ||
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Mindspider
91 Posts
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WCH
Canada239 Posts
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
I guess it's meaningless once again (blizzard and their shitty casual ladders...). Tried it like 3 times, worked on 2 of them but that was pure luck + my experience on bw helped to outmacro them. Will have to try it again tomorrow cauz i've some doubts about its succesfulness. Especially compared to a classic speedling build (assuming we don't put pressure obv). Edit : forgot to mention that 2 times my opponent saw my roach warren successfully because he abused the offcreep. | ||
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Zerokaiser
Canada885 Posts
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Vexx
United States462 Posts
Stories of both games where my intial attack didn't quite win me the game but I was able to adapt and still win: + Show Spoiler + In one of the other games, a terran opened reapers and blocked his ramp with rax + tech lab and factory. I used the roaches on the tech lab but he repaired so I sniped the 2 scvs. He had 1 maurauder and 1 hellion + 1 reaper trying to hold the fort. He brought more scvs which I got as well. Off that initial attempt, I didn't break in but I killed ~5 scvs, a marauder and a hellion. I had my speedlings ready but with no opening I was not sure how to proceed off my "failed" opener. I dropped a baneling nest, popped the tech lab and then rallied the lings in for the victory. The other close game was vs a P who went 1 gate with 2 zealots, 1 stalker and early warpgate. He warped in 2 more zealots while my roaches did work which died easily. As my lings run in to his mineral line to secure the game, out of nowhere a void ray strolls in and ends my push. I killed all his units and most of his probes so I rallied more lings for the win but they were only able to kill a few more probes before a zealot and 2 void rays cleaned up. From that point, my expo was shut down by the void rays so I had to build queens, drop crawlers and tech to hydras. Once I had a few, I nydused in and that's all she wrote. Thanks a lot OP. I am very impressed with this build and it has made playing Z a lot more fun as it's an alternative build to apply early pressure beyond just doing a baneling bust. I would love to try it against zergs but I'm terrified that speedlings will catch my roaches out in the open or they will just wait for me to leave my base to rape my mineral line. | ||
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shrinkmaster
Germany947 Posts
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Fistdantilus
United States136 Posts
On August 21 2010 09:16 Fumble wrote: I like this build and will definately give it a shot. Can you give us any further insights on which maps this build works particularly good in or which maps this build is unusable? Completely unusable on DO as roaches are just too slow. However, you can turn it into a baneling bust. Simply make a baneling nest instead of roach warren and go for it. The 5RR is great wherever there's destructible rocks: BS, SS, KR. On KR, you do have to make a few more roaches to get through both layers of rock in a timely manner. Cross positions on M/KR aren't great, but I have done it anyway and won. I love the 5RR on LT as your opponent often tries to fast expand or fast tech to air. | ||
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Chunkybuddha
Canada347 Posts
Or I could just do what you do, and rush maras as soon as I see a roach warren. Sorry, but I will have the correct amount of men to kill you every time. 700+ diamond. edit: If Terran went 12 reaper, he would lose more than likely. | ||
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Fistdantilus
United States136 Posts
On August 21 2010 11:42 phfantunes wrote: I'm definetly going to try this, Roach openings have been my dream since the huge nerf bat hit them plus I'm sick of the usual 14-gas 14-pool stuff. You seem to have a reasonable number of losses, can you say what caused most of them if they're related to the build? Was it poor transition out of this opening, a certain counter attack, a specific opening, cheese, whatever? 3 reasons why my win percentage sucks: 1) Up until last week, one third of all my games ended in a disconnect. Got my interwebs fixed last week (apparently bad wiring was the cause), and now I haven't had a disconnect since. 2) I had the beta for 1 day. So I was trying things like mass roach vs bio-ball, I never tech'ed to T3 in my first 150 games (not kidding!), etc. Not to mention that I didn't know any of the hotkeys, injection techniques, etc. A lot of the better people with the nice winrates got their stupid losses out of the way a long time ago in beta. 3) I'm not that good! =) | ||
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Fistdantilus
United States136 Posts
On August 21 2010 13:22 Mindspider wrote: Tried the build a couple of games, and I've had a lot of success as a low-level diamond. I can also say that this opening has been fantastic in 2v2 - me and a fellow zerg both do it together, and it has crushed everyone we've come against. 10 roaches that early in the game is a total wrecking ball, and can deal damage where ling openings would not. NICE! It's good to see 2v2 applications instead of double 6-pool all the time for Z. | ||
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Fistdantilus
United States136 Posts
On August 21 2010 15:35 Vexx wrote: I found this thread last night at 3am and even though I had to go to bed, I was hooked. I even installed SC2 on my laptop just to watch the replays in bed. Got a chance to try it out tonight in mid diamond and it served me well 4-0. In 2 of the games it was a straight victory. Thanks a lot OP. I am very impressed with this build and it has made playing Z a lot more fun as it's an alternative build to apply early pressure beyond just doing a baneling bust. I would love to try it against zergs but I'm terrified that speedlings will catch my roaches out in the open or they will just wait for me to leave my base to rape my mineral line. I'm glad you tried it, glad you like it! It is nice having an opening that can just win sometimes. I actually have never tried it vs Z, and I'm not confident it would work as written. I think you'd just have to keep pumping roaches as he'll most likely have banelings. Plus, there's the very real problem you mention of the ling run-by. | ||
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Psyclon
Bulgaria2443 Posts
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Fistdantilus
United States136 Posts
On August 22 2010 00:06 Chunkybuddha wrote: Lots of ppls do this :D Not to take your thunder, they don't do it like you. This is an excellent thread and nice format. This is response only to TvZ, I didn't watch any ZvP reps. I usually open 8 rax turbo raper, forcing you to make some zerglings, or else you die your drones; also this helps me scout zerg later too for muta or hydra tech. Queen doesn't do shit against someone decent, especially when I get nitro boost on my first reaper. Even if you manage to hold me off without zerglings + no speed, and leave a roach behind for reaper harass, I have had more than enough time to make my 1-2 mara to hold my wall. Or I could just do what you do, and rush maras as soon as I see a roach warren. Sorry, but I will have the correct amount of men to kill you every time. 700+ diamond. edit: If Terran went 12 reaper, he would lose more than likely. I'm not claiming to be the first to think of this. I'm not claiming this is the fastest build. I'm not claiming this is the best build. I am saying that until the 5RR I haven't seen consistent and robust build orders: it was either all-in or nothing. This build is a happy balance. Regarding 8-rax-reaper: I believe you when you say you'll have marauders out by the time the rush gets there. With the reapers you'll definitely see the roach warren. However, you really won't deal significant damage to my economy with 2 roaches and a queen hanging around. In fact, by going 8RR you're doing the economic damage to yourself so I don't even need to get in there. You're going to be behind in workers, and I'll have an expansion and be happily on the way to lair. | ||
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