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[G] 5 Roach Rush: early game without the all-in - Page 21

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
August 27 2010 15:56 GMT
#401
On August 28 2010 00:44 RampancyTW wrote:Looks like I must have been skipping speed for 14 and 15, you're right.


Phew! I was going crosseyed trying to figure out where I was going wrong. When you said about us both getting the queen at the same time and the larvae spawning at the same time, I was thinking: "Well, yeah, he's completely right of course. Huh. So why don't I have enough gas?"

Still, if you time out everything right with 13/13 you will have exactly the amount of gas and minerals needed when the larva pop. 13/12 is unnecessary and has a pretty large mineral hit, especially if you send a drone scout out.


Yeah, I'm leaning that way myself, if only because it's super-fiddly to do 13p12e quickly enough to make it even slightly worth it.

Cheers!
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
RampancyTW
Profile Joined August 2010
United States577 Posts
August 27 2010 16:02 GMT
#402
http://www.mediafire.com/?h6bcc9ce8nh8b2d

You have to wait maybe 2 seconds for the necessary minerals with this, but my last roaches are popping at 5:02 even with the delay at the start.

In the meantime I'm going to see if there's a good way to sneak an early expansion into this by cutting speed and delaying the roaches a bit
Tsagacity
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States2124 Posts
August 27 2010 16:02 GMT
#403
On August 28 2010 00:41 Fistdantilus wrote:
oGsZenio uses the 5RR. =)




He makes more lings earlier, but it's pretty apparent he's going off the stub build.
What's the stub build? I haven't read every page, so maybe I missed a variation?

It looks like he's doing gas first in this one.
"Everyone worse than me at video games is a noob. Everyone better than me doesn't have a life."
Fistdantilus
Profile Joined August 2010
United States136 Posts
August 27 2010 16:11 GMT
#404
Gas first doesn't matter. It's a 13e/13p (or close), drone to 15/18, place RW at 70% queen completion, research ling speed, hatch 5 roaches, send lings to reinforce. It's the 5RR in spirit if not exact build.
Newti
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland71 Posts
August 27 2010 16:32 GMT
#405
Good thing it fails, otherwise 200'000 more people would know about this being a very strong build :D
Grimjim
Profile Joined May 2010
United States395 Posts
August 27 2010 16:36 GMT
#406
The loses incredibly hard to any early Marine/Marauder push, which seems to be the new Flavor of the Day insta-win Terran strategy.


Balance patch plz.
I am serious. And my name is Shirley.
Tsagacity
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States2124 Posts
August 27 2010 16:41 GMT
#407
On August 28 2010 01:11 Fistdantilus wrote:
Gas first doesn't matter. It's a 13e/13p (or close), drone to 15/18, place RW at 70% queen completion, research ling speed, hatch 5 roaches, send lings to reinforce. It's the 5RR in spirit if not exact build.
What's the benefit of gas first? Wouldn't that delay the queen/injection/5 roaches?
"Everyone worse than me at video games is a noob. Everyone better than me doesn't have a life."
Fistdantilus
Profile Joined August 2010
United States136 Posts
August 27 2010 16:55 GMT
#408
It does delay things slightly by going gas first. Not sure what the thinking is behind it.
Fistdantilus
Profile Joined August 2010
United States136 Posts
August 27 2010 16:56 GMT
#409
On August 28 2010 01:36 Grimjim wrote:
The loses incredibly hard to any early Marine/Marauder push, which seems to be the new Flavor of the Day insta-win Terran strategy.


Balance patch plz.


I did lose with it yesterday to a 6 rax no gas marine push, but that was more because of the sheer surprise factor and I responded incredibly poorly to it as a result. -_-
comis
Profile Joined April 2010
United States333 Posts
August 27 2010 17:00 GMT
#410
On August 20 2010 11:40 Fistdantilus wrote:
Cons:

  • Completely fails against some openings (marauders, stalkers). I'm saying don't even attack type of fail because you'll insta-lose.
  • If your opponent is opening with marauders or stalkers, you have to back-tech to zerglings ASAP or you'll often die outright.
  • If your opponent opens with stalkers/marauders, you'll be behind economically than if you didn't rush.
  • Forces the game into certain channels: 4-gate, marauders/thor.



Basically, the cons are "if your opponent scouts you at all, you lose".
edwin23
Profile Joined August 2010
13 Posts
August 27 2010 17:28 GMT
#411
What kind of forces can Roaches beat, when shooting down a wall. I'm having trouble deciding when to break in and when to leave.

4-5 marines means I should back off, no?
kataa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom384 Posts
August 27 2010 18:05 GMT
#412
On August 28 2010 01:36 Grimjim wrote:
The loses incredibly hard to any early Marine/Marauder push, which seems to be the new Flavor of the Day insta-win Terran strategy.


Balance patch plz.


Yeah, I've been using this strat and I've found it so amazing most of the time, but if you run up that ramp to find a 3 rax MM push coming your way, you're in big trouble. However, I think the right response is to not to go all-in suicidally like I did, but rather stick guys back on gas, throw done a baneling nest, and pump ling/baneling while sticking in the odd drone, and after fending it off teching to mutas.
Dogsi
Profile Joined August 2010
Indonesia298 Posts
August 27 2010 18:40 GMT
#413
fast VR for a free win :-P
lovewithlea
Profile Joined March 2010
168 Posts
August 27 2010 18:51 GMT
#414
On August 28 2010 01:02 RampancyTW wrote:

In the meantime I'm going to see if there's a good way to sneak an early expansion into this by cutting speed and delaying the roaches a bit


14 pool
16 gas
15 ovi
16 queen
18/19 lings
20 drone
kill scout
21 Roach warren when scout is dead
20ovi.
wait till 300. expand

last roaches pop at ~5:20
commiekaze
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada31 Posts
August 27 2010 18:53 GMT
#415
On August 28 2010 03:40 Dogsi wrote:
fast VR for a free win :-P


Someone tried that on me when I was testing this build last night, and 1 VR can only do so much when it keeps losing charge. Fast VR means your front defense will be next to nothing. I barged into his base and decimated most of his workers and pylons as well as his ground forces with roaches and ling.

I made extra queens at my base and natural and his VR was denied. I expanded, harassed with speedling, expanded again, and just kept harassing, teching, and massing.

He was way too behind after that initial push/rush to ever recover.

It's Best, Bro.
Tsagacity
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States2124 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 20:31:05
August 27 2010 20:06 GMT
#416
Haven't tried this extensively enough to comment on how strong it is over-all, but I have to say I'm definitely enjoying the style. After so much early FE and react it's nice to have some control in the early game without doing an all-in.

On August 28 2010 03:40 Dogsi wrote:
fast VR for a free win :-P
Just pump more queens if you see VRs coming. Queens easily stop 1-3 VRs (make sure to spawn creep to your expansion), and your roaches+speedlings should punish any heavy tech unless he cannons.
"Everyone worse than me at video games is a noob. Everyone better than me doesn't have a life."
Nuage
Profile Joined August 2010
France61 Posts
August 27 2010 20:47 GMT
#417
I do have some issues with this build when going against a marine / tank Terran.
Basically, the first tank pop when I'm breaking the wall, and with the helps of half a dozen marines, they can repell me - and destroy me in the subsequent push.

Don't know exactly what I should do in such a situation ?
RampancyTW
Profile Joined August 2010
United States577 Posts
August 27 2010 22:54 GMT
#418
Run, run the hell away. :p Retreat back and pump out as many lings as you can

@lovewithlea: awesome, i'll check this out later this seems like just about what i was looking for (: in this case the roach push is just to buy time for the expo to go up and kick in
Ordained
Profile Joined June 2010
United States779 Posts
August 28 2010 08:51 GMT
#419
The replay vs Cold was epic. That is why I have no respect for 99% of Terran players.
"You are not trying to win, you are trying to be awesome" -Day[9]
Newti
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland71 Posts
August 28 2010 10:36 GMT
#420
On August 28 2010 05:47 Nuage wrote:
I do have some issues with this build when going against a marine / tank Terran.
Basically, the first tank pop when I'm breaking the wall, and with the helps of half a dozen marines, they can repell me - and destroy me in the subsequent push.

Don't know exactly what I should do in such a situation ?


I would say instantly throw down a bling nest and keep pumping speedlings (don't forget to put 3 in gas).
Now you need to delay him until blings are ready. Position your Lings near his ramp and when he moves out, threaten to break in. Usually this will make the terran go back and deal with the problem, buying you time. 6-10 blings + a solid amount of speedlings should be enough to handle 1-2 tanks + marines. Especially if you send in the remaning roaches first and get a flank with the banelings.
It is also possible to defend this with pure speedlings, but you need a lot.
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