EPTSo why isn't everyone using this already? I don't understand.
[G] kcdc's PvT FE - Page 7
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Shron
United States162 Posts
So why isn't everyone using this already? I don't understand. | ||
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Wayem
France455 Posts
Could you please, dear OP, post a replay of you against a 1/1/1 or a marine/ghost push ? I guess those 2 might be the easier to deal with your fast expand, but if you have it I would be really interested. thanks ! | ||
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Drazzzt
Germany999 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=129669 ? I'm at work and can't watch the reps, but I'd assume that it might be not too easy to hold. | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
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Doko
Argentina1737 Posts
Can any terrans give me the time for the most common builds with cloak? I did one vs ai and I could have a banshee out at around 7:30 but then again i don't play terran. | ||
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Xanatoss
Germany539 Posts
On August 17 2010 21:02 Drazzzt wrote: Has anyone tried this FE build against this strat: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=129669 ? I'm at work and can't watch the reps, but I'd assume that it might be not too easy to hold. By the time that push hits (around 7:30?) P allready has a decent amount of units out, so it is at least not autolose for P. I experimented with that opening for some games now and I recognized that CB climbs up really quickly because it seems I can not afford (for some time after expo) further Tech (except Robo) beside double Probe and Gateway Production if I use my Robo for Immos aswell instead of just Obs. Therefore I cut 1 additional Gate and stay on 2 constantly boosted Warpgates + Robo producing Immos until my Econ advantage kicks in and I can get Forge(s)/TC. On August 17 2010 21:30 Doko wrote: Gonna give this a try on my next ladder games. Sounds good on maps with easy to defend naturals. I wouldn't feel very comfortable against banshees being spread so thin early on, pretty sure the fastest banshees builds will arrive at your base around the time the 1st obs is out. Can any terrans give me the time for the most common builds with cloak? I did one vs ai and I could have a banshee out at around 7:30 but then again i don't play terran. Last time I did a Banshee Rush first one poped at 6:35, 2nd at 7:36 with cloak finishing between them (at leat thats what my notes say). With travel distance added you have to take Banshees into Account around the 8 Min Mark. | ||
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Shifft
Canada1085 Posts
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MilitantXIII
United States10 Posts
Pretty much every question I had was answered in the previous posts, and I really can't wait to give this a shot. I'm only Silver league at the moment, so this should rock it pretty hard. :D | ||
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Shaithis
United States383 Posts
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Nah
Poland50 Posts
On August 18 2010 03:36 Shaithis wrote: I play 1-1-1 in TvP. If I saw you drop a FE, I would cancel any upgrades and pump marine + tank + banshee to push the expo, then pull back while expanding myself. Just a few unsieged tanks will take out all your stalkers while my marines and token banshees take out your sentries + zealots. Don't really see how you can defend your expo from this, presuming I do not try to push your base. Shaithis: Can you post some replays of this play? Would be very helpful. Thanks! | ||
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Shaithis
United States383 Posts
On August 18 2010 05:06 Nah wrote: Shaithis: Can you post some replays of this play? Would be very helpful. Thanks! Don't have any post-beta yet, sorry. Will work on it tomorrow. Basic premise is that marine + tank + banshee has a timing window vs any FE b/c it's such a strong composition vs gateway armies. I base can support constant tanks, banshees and marines from 1-1-1 as long as you don't research upgrades; mass units, take out FE and run before they warp in enough reinforcements. The macro advantage should win you the game. | ||
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altairian
United States105 Posts
 It all depends on how the timings play out, you may be right and it may be a viable way to stop the FE, or it may work out like the bio pushes seem to where they're just a hair too late and we're able to hold it off. Early pushes with banshee support definitely sound harder to fight off than bio pushes are, but it really depends how quickly you can get an effective force before we're on 5 gates + council researching charge + robo | ||
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Easy772
374 Posts
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Xanatoss
Germany539 Posts
On August 18 2010 05:45 altairian wrote: mmhmm and 3rax marauder pushes are amazing against protoss too It all depends on how the timings play out, you may be right and it may be a viable way to stop the FE, or it may work out like the bio pushes seem to where they're just a hair too late and we're able to hold it off. Early pushes with banshee support definitely sound harder to fight off than bio pushes are, but it really depends how quickly you can get an effective force before we're on 5 gates + council researching charge + robo Typical 1/1/1 Push will hit far far earlier. Actually did the Build at Yabot and the 50 Food Push starts around 7:40 (+Travel Time). By that time kcdc's opening can afford about 15 Gateway Units (+Travel Time Cycles depending on Map) and 1 Immortal. The Immo can be substituted by 2 Stalkers and the whole mix must contain a maximal gas amount of 650 (~ 800 Gas mined until 7:40 minus 50 for Warpgate Tech and 100 for Robo). The 1/1/1 Push contains around 16 Marines without Upgrades, 2 Tanks without Siege and 2 Banshees without cloak _or_ 1 Banshee without cloak and a raven with 100 Energy as the push arrives + potentialy SCV's. So, what do you guys think about this? | ||
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Easy772
374 Posts
On August 18 2010 06:25 Xanatoss wrote: Typical 1/1/1 Push will hit far far earlier. Actually did the Build at Yabot and the 50 Food Push starts around 7:40 (+Travel Time). By that time kcdc's opening can afford about 15 Gateway Units (+Travel Time Cycles depending on Map) and 1 Immortal. The Immo can be substituted by 2 Stalkers and the whole mix must contain a maximal gas amount of 650 (~ 800 Gas mined until 7:40 minus 50 for Warpgate Tech and 100 for Robo). The 1/1/1 Push contains around 16 Marines without Upgrades, 2 Tanks without Siege and 2 Banshees without cloak _or_ 1 Banshee without cloak and a raven with 100 Energy as the push arrives + potentialy SCV's. So, what do you guys think about this?  This is good stuff, I'm often unsure of when to expand vs T. EDIT: Definitely gonna try this against some of my Terran buddies. | ||
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FortuneSyn
1825 Posts
On August 18 2010 03:36 Shaithis wrote: I play 1-1-1 in TvP. If I saw you drop a FE, I would cancel any upgrades and pump marine + tank + banshee to push the expo, then pull back while expanding myself. Just a few unsieged tanks will take out all your stalkers while my marines and token banshees take out your sentries + zealots. Don't really see how you can defend your expo from this, presuming I do not try to push your base. this is plain false. I'm sorry I don't have reps to back it up, but a FE build can handle any 1-1-1 push, especially that one. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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Mnijykmirl
United States299 Posts
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coltrane
Chile988 Posts
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Chronopolis
Canada1484 Posts
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