[G] +1/Shield TvP

CursOr

United States6335 Posts

June 06 2010 02:47 GMT

Guide to +1 and Shield Push for Terran versus Protoss

Purpose:

The +1/Shied build is meant to give Terran a safe, effective build versus Protoss. A build that fills a variety of desirable roles simultaneously for the Terran. Concomitantly providing the Terran player a safe way to expand, a direct threat to the Protoss survival and a solid defense against all sorts of early game aggression. As any build, it is not a catch-all but can be effective in many situations with proper scouting.

Theory:

The Theory of this build is to line up two upgrades with two tactical actions.

A mineral based opening (only 1 gas for ~9 minutes game time) and 2 timed upgrades will create Terran a massive army that should reduce all but the most perfectly calibrated of Protoss armies to ashes. Your push, when executed correctly, will have your Psi count well above that of your opponent. Also, your army will be unnaturally powerful for its "in game" time due to the simultaneous addition of both hit points and +1 attack.

The two upgrades are the +1 Infantry Attack Upgrade (Engineering Bay) and the Combat Shield Upgrade (Barracks, TechLab):

100

100
+1 Weapon Damage for Infantry

100

100
Increases the hit points of marines by 10.

The two tactical actions are Expanding and Pushing. Commonly Pushes are timed with constructing an Expansion, thus it is protected by forcing the other player to Defend. Ideally, the opponent will either lose to the push or notice the expansion only after it has been established.

Effectiveness:

This build was designed to be a unique counter to Immortal aggression by Protoss. The Immortal only takes 10 Damage with its Shield active. This negates much of the Damage done by a Marauder unit. The 100 minerals is, in theory, better spent on 2 Marine units that do less damage, but both get to attack the Immortal and do full damage each totaling 14 (with the +1 Upgrade). The +1 upgrade is also more effective on the 2 marine units than it is the 1 Marauder unit in general. Lastly, 2 Marines from a reactor Barracks are produced slightly faster than Marauders are. Hence, you just have more material.

Usage of this build also proves that Marines and fast upgrades are also excellent counters to any Void Ray aggression. The fast Engineering Bay constructed in this build is useful for Missile Turrets which can limit Observer usage and snuff out any Dark Templar Aggression. Marines and said Missile Turrets are also excellent to have in the event of any Drop Harass done with Warp Prisms.

Weaknesses of this build (as with any build in Starcraft 2) will be discussed at the end.

Execution:

The initial build order is fairly rigid (as much as is possible) up to Pushing and claiming your Natural Expansion. After this, transitions depending on the Protoss player choices can be made. Should you choose to execute a +1/Shield push, you will be ideally constructing units from 3 Barracks, 2 with a Reactor and 1 with a Tech Lab:

This is where you want to be headed...

Other buildings needed for this build are 1 Engineering bay, at least 2 or more Missile Turrets, a Command Center just as the push exits, and Supply Depots as needed.

One of the hallmarks of this build is to execute it off of 1 gas geyser. This is a critical element to this build. On top of Terran Mule ability, the 3 extra SCV's on Minerals allow for more Marine production, more supply depot construction and the extra money needed for your Command Center. Do not construct your second gas until the Command Center has finished. This will give your army that "too much material" appearance at 9 minutes in the game. Use those extra Terran minerals to your advantage!

The initial build is fairly standard and looks like this:
(build order assumes constant SCV production)

-10 Supply Depot (wall off ramp IMO)
-12 Barracks (begin a Marine, keep up production)
-13 Gas (Its critical to get your 3 SCV on Gas as SOON as it finishes)
-16 Supply (send Scout SCV out about here)
-17/18 Orbital Command (Mule's on time are Critical)
-19 Barracks 2
-21/22 Engineering Bay

The Build is a little loose after this depending on how effective you are with Macro. Finish your build as follows:

-Add supply's as needed. Once both reactors get rolling, make sure you stay on this. The build is dependent on constant Marine/SCV production to outmatch your opponent.
-Add 1 Tech and 1 Reactor Before Ebay Finishes
-Make a 3rd Barracks (add Rector when finished)
-Begin +1 upgrade
-Begin Shield Upgrade when +1 is about a Quarter to a Third done.
-Make 1 Missile Turret at Wall off (DT pressure)
-Make 1 Missile Turret by Command Center (DT drop or Void Ray)
-Make Marauders/Marines until the Upgrades Finish.

Once both reactors get rolling, make sure you stay on your supply depot production. Your PSI usage will climb very quickly. The build is dependent on constant Marine/SCV production to outmatch your opponent. Executed properly 70 PSI is not uncommon.

Push when, or just before, your +1 and Shield upgrades finish. This should be near simultaneous.

If you macro well, your Push should come around 8-9 minutes and consist of 18 or so marines and 6 or more Marauders. While your push is moving to your opponents base, construct your Command Center. Begin a 2nd gas and start a Factory. Arc your units properly. Your army should be bigger... so you will need a larger arc or micro have all your units attacking. Don't fear ramps, but do fear the Limbo line... where you come at your opponent 1 at a time, Kung-Fu movie style.

If it goes well, set your rally point to the base in case the push is successful in breaking Protoss.

Weaknesses/Pitfalls:

The only Protoss build that is ideal for crushing this push is 3-4 gate mad Stalkers with a few Sentries sprinkled in. The Sentries will reduce your ranged damage, block you with Force Field and the Stalkers will finish the job. Scouting 2 Gateways is acceptable. Scouting 3 or more Gateways, especially 4, should have you considering a Marauder/Stim based 2 rax into Factory build. You should have time to augment the build to 1 reactor / 1 Tech Lab.

Should you scout this late and encounter this composition in significant proportions during your push, make a clean retreat and construct 2 bunkers at your expansion. Marauders are needed. Float 1 Barracks to make a Tech lab, and save the discarded Reactor for a Starport.

"Hi... I'm trouble..."

Also problematic are Dark Templar. These will force you to retreat back to your Missile Turret for defense. Do not despair, because you are will prepared. Continue with your expo and make a few more turrets. Spread a couple Marauders/Marines to each turret and continue to macro.

Transitions:

Not rid of those pesky Protoss yet? Do not worry. As stated, when your army is moving, your macro at base should consist of adding that second Gas and constructing your Factory to continue up the tech tree. Typically, a resilient Protoss will now be making High Templar or Colossus to deal with your Large numbers of Infantry.

Typically, I will move 1 Barracks and add another Tech lab, leaving the stray Reactor for Starport. Create an additional Barracks now that your Expansion is up, and upgrade Stim. Falling into the more Traditional build is now appropriate, keep 1 reactor to produce your super marines still, but the tougher marauders are now needed.

High Templar Tech will require a Ghost Academy and Cloak.

Colossus Tech will require an additional Starport and Vikings.

In any event, you should have adequate material to either severely cripple your opponent, or easily defend your expansion.

Replays:
My Replays:
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Win. Nice build by Toss, good Immortal killing- but he had a failed drop.

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Win. Barely. Protoss puts up a wicked push, after being contained on 1 base. Destroys my Natural but thankfully I had just finished 3rd. Bodes well for build that it Contained him, his push was strong but fortunately I squeak by and etch out a win after slightly better Marco.

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Win. Failed Cannon Rush. Guy was cool as hell though.

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Protoss goes for some strange Gateway into Warp Ray build- fairly easy win. I fail at placing my Turrets though

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Loss. This is the Exact army composition I discussed as a problem. Sentry/Stalker 4 gates. The guy pushes me and comes up with my ramp with balls, and owns. Good scouting for him, bad for me.

Community Replays:
If you do this build Good, and I'm sure tons are better than me, I'll post it here. I don't claim to be a master. This is my theory, and I'm positive I still haven't executed it 100%. TL member doing this build will be posted here.

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About Poster / Thread:
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I've had a lot of fun in Beta. I'd like to do something to contribute to the evolution of Starcraft 2. I've had a great time on Team Liquid. Hopefully someone finds this build useful.
If there is anything I have learned during Beta, it's this build. It has worked well consistently since week 1 and I have refined it on the way. It's simple, clever, and I like it a lot.
I don't claim to be a great player. I have abnormally low APM... but, I am currently Platinum, was ranked as high as #2 but now am #9 because I've spent all day on this thread (lol). Now I'm 10-2 in Platinum. I first placed in Copper (literally) and have fought my way up through the course of beta and this is a little of what I've learned. I'm just average player who wants to contribute. Thanks for Reading.

knyttym

United States5797 Posts

June 06 2010 02:54 GMT

Nice thread but one question. I've faced many 3 barracks builds and none of them have been that strong against a 3gate infinite forcefied build and I'm wondering how you deal with such a build?

The build is simple 3 gate move out with 2-3 sentry and expand. Pylon right at his natural and keep warping in sentries until you have somewhere between 7 and 10. Protoss can easily contain Terran for 5+ minutes since you don't have factory for siege or medivacs.

Darthturtle

United States718 Posts

June 06 2010 02:55 GMT

What's the advantage of going shield over stim? Has there been any experimentation on that front, or is shield definitively better for some reason?

CursOr

United States6335 Posts

June 06 2010 03:00 GMT

On June 06 2010 11:55 Darthturtle wrote:
What's the advantage of going shield over stim? Has there been any experimentation on that front, or is shield definitively better for some reason?

I opt for Shield in this case because of the large amount of Marines this build creates (more than 2 to 1 on Marauders) and the fact that you won't have Medivac's out if shit starts to go downhill. I typically won't Stim untill I have medivac's. That's just me.

And about the 3 gate, infinite Force field, best way is to get Tanks and basically Siege expand to get out. If you can push out before they start to Field your ramp, of course you'd be fine too.

edit: Generally, I've found that most Protoss lately are playing with a fear of Mech... so this build has become more effective. Immortal's and mixed gateway are easiest to deal.

JOmega

United States6 Posts

June 06 2010 03:35 GMT

Wow... this is a very well-written guide. Excellent job!10/10 on presentation; I have yet to watch the replays and test the content theory though

I don't play Terran but I will have my my Terran buddy try to master this build order and see how it works against me

CursOr

United States6335 Posts

June 06 2010 03:38 GMT

As my friends here have pointed out, some players might want to opt for stim. I find that a little more "risky"... especially for marines with 35 HP and no healing- maybe more "all in-ish"....
... but it might appeal to people. I think you'd have to start Stim a hair earlier to get it to finish at the same time as +1.

Thank you for the kind words, sir

Equalizer

Canada115 Posts

June 06 2010 03:44 GMT

This seems rather weak against a fast colossus addaption on robo tech.

It is quite possible for the protoss to have a colossus out before you attack and in conjunction with good force field usage your timing attack would be ineffective.

Also because of getting a factory only after you attack there will be a considerable window (~3 min after your attack) where you will not have any units capable of fighting colossi effectively.

If the protoss realizes this (which they likely would having an observer) they could continue colossus production and push you with 3 colossi + gateway units and I can't see your build having any way to deal with this as you would still be only on barracks units with mostly marines.

Soel

90 Posts

June 06 2010 03:49 GMT

yes my friend, I do believe stim is always better than shields upgrade.

good write up though, will certainly help out some players

CursOr

United States6335 Posts

June 06 2010 03:49 GMT

On June 06 2010 12:44 Equalizer wrote:
This seems rather weak against a fast colossus addaption on robo tech...

When I do it, the push usually comes Right as the first observer arrives.
I'm sure this is not the case if he fast tech towards Colossus, which I really wouldn't have a problem with either.
IMHO a fast Colossus isn't going to have a enough support to deal with this, and be easily Target Fired. 2 or 3 Colossus, would be a rare find. In fact I've yet to run into that.

afirlortwo

United States161 Posts

June 06 2010 04:04 GMT

#10

If this build catches a protoss off guard it can be pretty deadly. Conversely if the toss is going for a robo build, then they'll usually get an obs too, which will give away your build and give them some time to adjust to it. I dont think you'll see many toss with collosi at this time frame, but you could be seeing chargelots and sentries w/ stalkers, which would do pretty well against your army composition. Good build overall, will be interested in trying it out

stroggos

New Zealand1543 Posts

June 06 2010 04:11 GMT

#11

So i take it while doing this build, the protoss player cannot see your other 2 barracks and would be forced to assume you are most likely going for a 1/1/1 or mech variation? I like this build if that's so.

CursOr

United States6335 Posts

June 06 2010 04:15 GMT

#12

Yes, you do hide your Other rax as much as possible. Most effective against anything out of Robo, even the 1 Colossus you might see. More than 9X out of 10 there... is no Colossus. The Missile Turrets I mentioned (since you should be rolling in gas)... do a pretty good job of hiding your unit composition as long as you hide your Army by the one at your ramp. They are more for Observers than they are for DT's... the added benefit is against Warp Rays and Drops... but its really there for the Obs.

stroggos

New Zealand1543 Posts

June 06 2010 04:16 GMT

#13

no protoss would ever go fast collosus vs this build, as a 1/1/1 variation would destroy it.

CursOr

United States6335 Posts

June 06 2010 04:18 GMT

#14

On June 06 2010 13:16 stroggos wrote:
no protoss would ever go fast collosus vs this build, as a 1/1/1 variation would destroy it.

Exactly my point about players being "paranoid of mech" these days... by the time they scout whats up, they need to play turtle style- not you. And you can expand. The gateway thing is listed as far more of a concern that a fast tech to this "hard counter".

stroggos

New Zealand1543 Posts

June 06 2010 04:20 GMT

#15

yeah, i think the most likely openings would be 3 gate/+ a stargate vs this build, when they see the reactor on the rax i think most people will assume your going mech or this.

CursOr

United States6335 Posts

June 06 2010 04:49 GMT

#16

I'd rather have Shield than Stim, especially in the event of Void Ray harass.

Sclerosis

Mexico60 Posts

June 06 2010 04:53 GMT

#17

Really nice presentation of the guide, thumbs up for you ;D
I will give that build a try, granted that I am not a good player, but I'll see how the build feels to me.

CursOr

United States6335 Posts

June 06 2010 04:56 GMT

#18

On June 06 2010 13:53 Sclerosis wrote:
Really nice presentation of the guide, thumbs up for you ;D
I will give that build a try, granted that I am not a good player, but I'll see how the build feels to me.

It's great for that. Very strong, very easy to macro.
And it doesn't require a bunch of "harass while you macro" like the 1/1/1 build does, or reapers, or anything like that. Just don't forget to tech/expo when your DeltaForce is done

Ai.Cola

Germany236 Posts

June 06 2010 05:39 GMT

#19

Hi interessting build, but I think it has too many weaknesses to become standard.

1.Like you mentioned I think this is going to be very vulnerable to an early 4 gate aggression, with a lot of stalkers and sentrys.

Sentrys are INSANELY good against marines, its sick. (because of their shields)

2.Also I think your techlevel is just a little low, so it will be very hard to react properly to your opponent, there is not enough flexibility in your build.

lets say he gets dts, you will never be able to push him and he can easily expand and get storm.

also the dts are pretty nice when mixed in the army afterwards or just morphed to archons (they are not as horrible as people say)

If he gets collossus it will also be very hard to get vikings out in time.

ghosts of course are available fast, but still you only have one gas.
As soon as he gets storm your marines will melt away insanely fast.

3. No harrasment potential.
You only will have a sick ground force, but won't be very mobile.

if you want to push out he can just force field your/his ramp and/or harras you with void rays/phönix

If you had a raven or banshee, or even hellions you could scout and harras much better.
With htis build he seems to be free in his choices.

4. late stim and no medivacs.
stim increases your damage output massivly, probably more than the +1, it might even be better to favour the stim over the shield and then push in time before storm or collossus are out.

I play 1/1/1 opening against protoss, usually with early cloack.

-If he doesnt get a robo out, you have a free win.
-even if he has an obs, you can just cancel the cloack upgrade and use it for raven energy upgrade or ghost uprade.
-banshee can still harras without cloack and do nice in battles.
-after your banshee you can get a raven, it can harras, protects you from dts and counters stalker super duper well.
-you can get a fast hellion and scout his army and whole base, usually even get 2-3 probekills.
-if he gets many zealots add hellions to your army !
-build a reactor on your barracks and get mass marines, later add 2 more with techlab for ghosts and rauders.
then you can research stim and shield at the same time, usually do a timing attack before storm is up.
-void rays and phönix can be dealt with much easier if you get vikings
-if you want to play defensively you just get out tanks and expand.

the options are endless.
I was inspired to play like this by one of day9s daily, super good episode !

€: as you mentioned in the post above your build should be very easy to execute against a player of same skill level (if you are not so good)

the built i mentioned requires a lot of practice and skill, you always have to react properly and know when to get which units.
but if you master it it is insanely strong.

I will give your build a try though.

CursOr

United States6335 Posts

June 06 2010 05:48 GMT

#20

Thanks for all the feedback.
My buddy and I labbed the build against "fast colossus" about 4X.
You pretty much have to go 1/1/1/1 (Gate > Cyber > Robo > Support) to BARELY get it out in time. You'd never have to deal with 2.

This guy I'm playing consistently stomps my face, in most MU, he's very good. Makes me think it does well against "hard counter" that pretty much would only be made with knowing this exact build is comming.

As for the tech problem, it is indeed a reality. Lack of harass doesn't bother me TOO much, because expanding Protoss always dies to this... in my experience.

Like you said, easy to execute. If you want to "flash it up" make sure build tech as you're pushing. Fact > Starport. It's not terribly difficult if you're really good at hotkey multitasking. Thing is, you're expanding also.

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