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Im gonna check on your replays now, maybe then I will add some more feedback.
I aswell tried this 1/1/1 style with anotehr terran buddy against many protoss players, for example Socke(gertam A player) or Chobo (one of the best polish players), it works so insanely well, its unbelievable.
Before I discovered this I screwed up all my TvP games.
What would you transition into if you get your expansion up and do some damage with your push, not killing him/wiinning the game though?
the lategame is my biggest problem against protoss, if you can emp his templers its basically a free win of course, but usually they always get some storms out and with all the upgrades up they just warp in one templar after another and turn my army into ashes.
Another little note for archons: keep in mind that emp only takes 100 shileds away, not the full shields.
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This is very similar to Fallen's 3-rax TvZ build that I sometimes use in TvZ and adapt for TvP.
The main deviation I make is that in TvP I have 2 tech labs and one reactor rather than the other way around. My second deviation for TvP is getting Concussive Shells and Stims. To compensate for the chance of a fast immortal, my push time is a couple minutes earlier, usually I have about ten marauders and ten marines each (rough guesstimate).
Marauders>Marines against Zealot/Stalker/Sentry. The only time I think would want to have 2 reactors is if I scouted a Void Ray all-in but the push should come before Void Rays come out anyways and even if one does get out you should have enough marines to take one or two down.
As some people pointed out, your build is susceptible to early sentries. You might want to consider two tech labs instead of two reactors.
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the game on Steppes of war:
perfect example of why 4 gate crushes this.
with some better execution and maybe a bunker you would have defended his push BUT if he had just chilled in front of your base and split your army with force fields etc when you push out - gg.
cloack banshee on the otehr hand (with some defending bunkers) would have sealed the deal for you.
(btw. you should scout for proxy gates earlier, your scout was too late imo)
game on scrap station:
lol, was this a placement match?
the guy played completly without a plan and got demolished of course, unfortunatly doesn't provide much information about yout strategy.
The game on Metalopolis:
besides that he screwed up horribly with hist first push it beautifully shows how a force field and a ramp completly shuts down all your units and possibilities.
Even although you had your expo up and running he could push out and rape your whole army.
not even thermal lance on collossus.
Anyways this was due to your macro and not because the strategy is bad, so the game nicely shows how this early push can contain the protoss for a long time, long enough to macro up so heavily that he has no chance at all to make a comeback.
Also a good example to show your insanely easy protoss macro is.
Overall some questions and tipps:
- Why reactor so late in all those games, does it have an idea behind it or did you just missmacro a little?
- Why orbital command so late, i think there is no need not to get the standard OC at 15, and then add the depot.
-Make a bunker.
If he comes to harras you with early stalkers it will be a pain in the butt without a bunker.
Also I would think about not getting a wall-in and just make a bunker at your choke.
thats how I play and it is way better against protoss imo.
If you see that he wants to steamroll you early on just wall of with 3 bunkers.
later on just sell bunker and get all money back.
€€:
Hyren you are wrong, marines >> marauders against sentry/zealot/stalker, just mix in a few marauders to mass marine.
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Gonna try out this build later, but is this supposed to hit right when the toss is doing the 3 gate 1 robo 2 immortal push? And if so, how do i deal with tosses that go heavy on zealots? If i use my MM ball to focus on the immortals, the zealots + sentry + stalkers just cut my marine ball down in no time. If i focus on the gateway units, the immortals will be left unscathed and they would usually pummel me since they also have reinforcements rallied over
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On June 06 2010 15:56 streamofhonour wrote:
Gonna try out this build later, but is this supposed to hit right when the toss is doing the 3 gate 1 robo 2 immortal push? And if so, how do i deal with tosses that go heavy on zealots? If i use my MM ball to focus on the immortals, the zealots + sentry + stalkers just cut my marine ball down in no time. If i focus on the gateway units, the immortals will be left unscathed and they would usually pummel me since they also have reinforcements rallied over
Always kill zealots first, cause they are dealing the most damage against all your units.
stalkers you dont have to worry about and immortals aren't your biggest concern either.
Their dps against marines is probably lower than zealots dps, if not, then only slightly higher (and if you look at the price of them ...  )
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Ya, Bunkers might be a nice Addition considering how much minerals you should have.
I wouldn't consider doing 2 tech /1 reactor- that would be a totally different build and would probably require 2 gas.
+ Show Spoiler +As some people pointed out, your build is susceptible to early sentries. You might want to consider two tech labs instead of two reactors. I really don't think the Tech labs are going to help with the sentries. Maybe a faster fact.
Also, I never claimed to execute the build order perfectly. It's an idea I shoot for. Sometimes I do it better than others.
The late Reactor you talk about may be to allow the first Rax to make at least 4 marines maybe 5. To help defend at wall. Also, getting the first marauders out early really helps with those stalkers at the choke.
Just got done playing TvP all night. It was a blast. Never did the 1/1/1 build thought I promise to give it a try. I've only used it vs Zerg thus far.
I'd be interested to hear if you do try this build... Cola.
Make sure you don't tell them its coming see how it holds up. If your opponent is obsessed with super fast Sentries and trying to FF your ramp- of course you'll have no choice but to Fact sooner. Let me know if it ever works. Once you get him Fearing your Tanks etc and he may abandon the fast Sentry attack, spring it on em... -.-
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Also, I never claimed to execute the build order perfectly. It's an idea I shoot for. Sometimes I do it better than others.
I know, thats why I said the fact that he came back on the metalopolis game doesn't mean your build is bad.
The advantage of making a bunker are:
-dont take any hits on marines
Also especially when he wnats to break you with zealot support, the bunker is rly rly rly nice.
-no wall-in needed (wall-in is always a weak spot if he goes for a massive attack and for example void rays)
If you dont wall in though, you need to scout for proxy gates and mass zealots etc.
-you might be able to get your reactors up faster and won't be so vulnerable while the reactors are made.
I will try the build later, it is only 10 am here, all my mates are sleeping 8]
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LoL I have a feeling if it works, you'll be able to post a better replay of my own build. 
Just a hunch.
Lots of TvP tonight... man Templar's are sick.
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On June 06 2010 15:59 Cola.bier wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2010 15:56 streamofhonour wrote:
Gonna try out this build later, but is this supposed to hit right when the toss is doing the 3 gate 1 robo 2 immortal push? And if so, how do i deal with tosses that go heavy on zealots? If i use my MM ball to focus on the immortals, the zealots + sentry + stalkers just cut my marine ball down in no time. If i focus on the gateway units, the immortals will be left unscathed and they would usually pummel me since they also have reinforcements rallied over Always kill zealots first, cause they are dealing the most damage against all your units. stalkers you dont have to worry about and immortals aren't your biggest concern either. Their dps against marines is probably lower than zealots dps, if not, then only slightly higher (and if you look at the price of them ... )
ok thank you!
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http://rapidshare.com/files/395824760/Schrottplatz__63_.SC2Replay.html
Here is me doing the 1/1/1 thing against a random ladder guy (he had 9:0 until then)
The game is not that good, since i messed up my first attack by double stimming (makes marines die 1 hit faster from stalkers 8])
Notice how the later army composition is not very different from yours, but I think the opening is just safer and more flexible.
Notice how I have enough gas from one base to get cloack, raven energy and ghost energy.
Also notice how many kills the banshee gets.
In the final battle I dont even lose 10 supply, while he loses everything (after him winning the first big fight)
If you want more replays let me know.
And yep :p templars indeed are sick.
(I didnt know where to put the replay so i put it on rapidshare, its limited to 10 downloads though, so if you can tell me where i can upload replays .. would be sweet :D )
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For some reason, I can't open that file, it crashes my Starcraft2 every time it's almost done loading.
Maybe its an EU/US thing? IDK but it sucks.
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hmm yeah that sucks.
It works for me, was played this morning (aka 2 hours ago)
I will download it myself and see if I can open it, maybe just try to downlaod it again?
idk :/
€: i pulled it on the sc2.exe and it crashed to during the loading screen, try putting it in your sc2 folder and open it while you are on battle.net.
If it still doesnt work I can try to upload it again, maybe the file got damaged?
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Odd, usually drag/dropping is the best way to start...
It worked placed directly in the folder.
Great replay. Ya, that certainly was a hero Banshee. Like 18 kills.
I have never rushed for banshee in the whole beta... just been the way I play. The best part was easily your Micro (save the double-stim) with great EMP's and PDD.
The only thing I would comment on otherwise is that your Expansion seems really late. In fact, for both players. Maybe it's just the group I play with, but usually expand far faster. Certainly, the damage you did was easily enough to allow for a delay.
Here is a rep of +1/shied build Vs my buddy going for "Fast Colossus".
He is a far superior player... and I almost never win (99/100) vs him. Only because I knew what he was doing, and he admittedly made the mistake of going for a VoidRay follow up after the Colossus defended.
Since my Replay site seems to be bugging out I'll use rapidshare too:
http://rapidshare.com/files/395834051/_1ShieldLuck.SC2Replay.html
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Watched your replay and once again I start doubting that this PUSH is very good to deal damage/kill him.
If he had gotte na sentry out an blocked his ramp he would have stopped your attack even easier.
On the other hand though (!!) it seemed like he had no option to leave his base and expand, so I feel like if you wouldn't have attacked, but just contained him a little (not over commit to the contain) and gotten up your expo a little faster it would have been even better for you.
So I think you should use your timing push to deny any expasions and of course if it is possible kill him, but I feel like if you just use this nice timing to preven and expo and have yours up and running faster than him it could be quite nice.
then you just start hardcore macro mode and add vikings + medivacs + ghosts, if possible I would also LOVE to see ravens join the fight.
Love the fact that you can abuse those 2 reactors with your later tech buildings and get out all the untis you need to counter him super fast. (vikings, hellions etc.)
Here is another game with my 1/1/1 opening against Socke
It is from the last patch and I hope he doesn't mind me showing it to you guys.
it was just some random practice game and it shows how super much damage this 1 hellion at the start can do.
You will also see some earlier expansions in this game.
Just shows all the different possibiliets this build has.
Although my macro is a little sucky in the beginning and he harrasses me extremly nice with his phenixes, my later army compostion just destroys him. (+ the fact that some of his storms didn't quite go down so well)
http://rapidshare.com/files/395843302/LT_vs_Socke.SC2Replay.html
The expansions in the last replay that I posted indeed came a little late, but I felt like since I kileld so much stuff with his banshee and he is a little behind, he won't be able to tech for templars or expand, so I can just steamroll him.
If I expanded, he could have maybe done the same, or gotten out templars and then it gets to a stage of the game that I dont like as much
Still prefer my build over yours, but I think with some more adjustments and training it can be quite good, I will definitly try it out against some mates later.
Especially for makro oriented players it seems to be quite nice.
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Hm, I have a few questions on the build:
- Can't the protoss scout the build by seeing the lack of a refinery?
- If you scout enough assimilators to support a large number of sentries, or if the map has too many small chokes and ridges, shouldn't you get a couple of reapers? Sure they cost a lot of gas, but you'll need to snipe those sentries should they push, as well as threaten something that infinite forcefield doesn't protect them against (all the alternatives being starport tech). Not only that, but your minerals (and consequently supply) are invaluable in this build, so you can't really afford to lose too many scans, and reapers are formidable scouters that are cheap on minerals and supply. Finally, even if they have less range than marines, they are great zealot killers when behind the marine line.
- This build seems like it can defend itself against early aggression even without an walloff. In this case, isn't TLO's supply drop into CC opening applicable here?
- Finally, is it possible for P to defend and get +3/0/0 blinkstalk/colossi running? Colossi will do 21x2 damage AoE, so even with the shields upgrade and +1 armor you'll be denied of stim. With good control, the colossi will put the rines into the deep red while stalkers will easily clean it up, or shut down vikings with blink. Besides, with the required council, templar tech is right around the corner...
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Thanks for teaching me this build! After doing some sort of loose 3 rax, i was able to crush most of the tosses army whenever they pushed out
I do have one qn however. Is the 1/1/1 build applicable against toss? It seems that whenever i use that build i always get steamrolled by the 2 immortal push or the 4 warpgate rush since i always do not have enough units to defend
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Very versatile build. I've encountered it several times. I would like to add though, that if the protoss does DTs, you may be prepared to defend, but you are screwed unless the protoss does something stupid.
The moment those DT's are on the field, you have to run back to your base and stay there until you get ravens out. By the time that happens, protoss will already have a saturated expansion and High Templars to deal with your ball.
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The replays provided are terrible as all of your opponents are obviously low level (probably silver or lower) players. There's no reason to do this build since Marine/Tank/Raven is a lot stronger. However, the premise is correct -- 1 base builds are the only way to defeat a good toss player in TvP.
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On June 06 2010 23:12 Infiltrator wrote:
Very versatile build. I've encountered it several times. I would like to add though, that if the protoss does DTs, you may be prepared to defend, but you are screwed unless the protoss does something stupid.
The moment those DT's are on the field, you have to run back to your base and stay there until you get ravens out. By the time that happens, protoss will already have a saturated expansion and High Templars to deal with your ball.
This build is not that mineral heavy. You can totally afford to save up scans.
I generally do a little twist on this build, going single reaper first to mix things up in his base and force some precautionary measures. Then I take a fast, mostly unprotected expo, and with the extra cc, it's easy to have lots of scans when necessary.
Alternatively, on a map with a lot of smallish chokes, like scrap station or incineration zone, you can try a turret push if you scout dts, but that's more of a slow push.
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I think Protoss can just FF the ramp until he gets DT/Storm/2 Colossus. You have absolutely no counter against FF and GS. This strat may work in low level league, but once it gets to Diamond and with high APM, Marines and Marauders alone at 8 min don't stand a chance at the choke.
Also, I think if you get 2nd gas a bit earlier along with Ebay, you can do this kind of push alot faster. I think probably at 6 min mark. Instead of Shield get Stimpack, and without reactor delays, you can push even faster with 10 or so Marines and 3 or 4 Marauders.
Another thing I can suggest is to bring about 10 SCVs for all-in attack if you see him teching up or expanding.
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EPT
