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![[image loading]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/8orion8/1Shield/Banner.jpg) Guide to +1 and Shield Push for Terran versus Protoss
Purpose:
The +1/Shied build is meant to give Terran a safe, effective build versus Protoss. A build that fills a variety of desirable roles simultaneously for the Terran. Concomitantly providing the Terran player a safe way to expand, a direct threat to the Protoss survival and a solid defense against all sorts of early game aggression. As any build, it is not a catch-all but can be effective in many situations with proper scouting.
Theory:
The Theory of this build is to line up two upgrades with two tactical actions.
A mineral based opening (only 1 gas for ~9 minutes game time) and 2 timed upgrades will create Terran a massive army that should reduce all but the most perfectly calibrated of Protoss armies to ashes. Your push, when executed correctly, will have your Psi count well above that of your opponent. Also, your army will be unnaturally powerful for its "in game" time due to the simultaneous addition of both hit points and +1 attack.
The two upgrades are the +1 Infantry Attack Upgrade (Engineering Bay) and the Combat Shield Upgrade (Barracks, TechLab):
![[image loading]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/8orion8/1Shield/EBAY.jpg) 100 100
+1 Weapon Damage for Infantry
![[image loading]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/8orion8/1Shield/TECHLAB.jpg) 100 100
Increases the hit points of marines by 10.
The two tactical actions are Expanding and Pushing. Commonly Pushes are timed with constructing an Expansion, thus it is protected by forcing the other player to Defend. Ideally, the opponent will either lose to the push or notice the expansion only after it has been established.
Effectiveness:
This build was designed to be a unique counter to Immortal aggression by Protoss. The Immortal only takes 10 Damage with its Shield active. This negates much of the Damage done by a Marauder unit. The 100 minerals is, in theory, better spent on 2 Marine units that do less damage, but both get to attack the Immortal and do full damage each totaling 14 (with the +1 Upgrade). The +1 upgrade is also more effective on the 2 marine units than it is the 1 Marauder unit in general. Lastly, 2 Marines from a reactor Barracks are produced slightly faster than Marauders are. Hence, you just have more material.
Usage of this build also proves that Marines and fast upgrades are also excellent counters to any Void Ray aggression. The fast Engineering Bay constructed in this build is useful for Missile Turrets which can limit Observer usage and snuff out any Dark Templar Aggression. Marines and said Missile Turrets are also excellent to have in the event of any Drop Harass done with Warp Prisms.
Weaknesses of this build (as with any build in Starcraft 2) will be discussed at the end.
Execution:
The initial build order is fairly rigid (as much as is possible) up to Pushing and claiming your Natural Expansion. After this, transitions depending on the Protoss player choices can be made. Should you choose to execute a +1/Shield push, you will be ideally constructing units from 3 Barracks, 2 with a Reactor and 1 with a Tech Lab:
![[image loading]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/8orion8/1Shield/field.jpg) This is where you want to be headed...
Other buildings needed for this build are 1 Engineering bay, at least 2 or more Missile Turrets, a Command Center just as the push exits, and Supply Depots as needed.
One of the hallmarks of this build is to execute it off of 1 gas geyser. This is a critical element to this build. On top of Terran Mule ability, the 3 extra SCV's on Minerals allow for more Marine production, more supply depot construction and the extra money needed for your Command Center. Do not construct your second gas until the Command Center has finished. This will give your army that "too much material" appearance at 9 minutes in the game. Use those extra Terran minerals to your advantage!
The initial build is fairly standard and looks like this:
(build order assumes constant SCV production)
-10 Supply Depot (wall off ramp IMO)
-12 Barracks (begin a Marine, keep up production)
-13 Gas (Its critical to get your 3 SCV on Gas as SOON as it finishes)
-16 Supply (send Scout SCV out about here)
-17/18 Orbital Command (Mule's on time are Critical)
-19 Barracks 2
-21/22 Engineering Bay
The Build is a little loose after this depending on how effective you are with Macro. Finish your build as follows:
-Add supply's as needed. Once both reactors get rolling, make sure you stay on this. The build is dependent on constant Marine/SCV production to outmatch your opponent.
-Add 1 Tech and 1 Reactor Before Ebay Finishes
-Make a 3rd Barracks (add Rector when finished)
-Begin +1 upgrade
-Begin Shield Upgrade when +1 is about a Quarter to a Third done.
-Make 1 Missile Turret at Wall off (DT pressure)
-Make 1 Missile Turret by Command Center (DT drop or Void Ray)
-Make Marauders/Marines until the Upgrades Finish.
Once both reactors get rolling, make sure you stay on your supply depot production. Your PSI usage will climb very quickly. The build is dependent on constant Marine/SCV production to outmatch your opponent. Executed properly 70 PSI is not uncommon.
![[image loading]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/8orion8/1Shield/battle.jpg) Push when, or just before, your +1 and Shield upgrades finish. This should be near simultaneous.
If you macro well, your Push should come around 8-9 minutes and consist of 18 or so marines and 6 or more Marauders. While your push is moving to your opponents base, construct your Command Center. Begin a 2nd gas and start a Factory. Arc your units properly. Your army should be bigger... so you will need a larger arc or micro have all your units attacking. Don't fear ramps, but do fear the Limbo line... where you come at your opponent 1 at a time, Kung-Fu movie style.
If it goes well, set your rally point to the base in case the push is successful in breaking Protoss.
Weaknesses/Pitfalls:
The only Protoss build that is ideal for crushing this push is 3-4 gate mad Stalkers with a few Sentries sprinkled in. The Sentries will reduce your ranged damage, block you with Force Field and the Stalkers will finish the job. Scouting 2 Gateways is acceptable. Scouting 3 or more Gateways, especially 4, should have you considering a Marauder/Stim based 2 rax into Factory build. You should have time to augment the build to 1 reactor / 1 Tech Lab.
Should you scout this late and encounter this composition in significant proportions during your push, make a clean retreat and construct 2 bunkers at your expansion. Marauders are needed. Float 1 Barracks to make a Tech lab, and save the discarded Reactor for a Starport.
![[image loading]](http://starcraft2site.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/dark-templar-2.jpg) "Hi... I'm trouble..."
Also problematic are Dark Templar. These will force you to retreat back to your Missile Turret for defense. Do not despair, because you are will prepared. Continue with your expo and make a few more turrets. Spread a couple Marauders/Marines to each turret and continue to macro.
Transitions:
Not rid of those pesky Protoss yet? Do not worry. As stated, when your army is moving, your macro at base should consist of adding that second Gas and constructing your Factory to continue up the tech tree. Typically, a resilient Protoss will now be making High Templar or Colossus to deal with your Large numbers of Infantry.
Typically, I will move 1 Barracks and add another Tech lab, leaving the stray Reactor for Starport. Create an additional Barracks now that your Expansion is up, and upgrade Stim. Falling into the more Traditional build is now appropriate, keep 1 reactor to produce your super marines still, but the tougher marauders are now needed.
High Templar Tech will require a Ghost Academy and Cloak.
Colossus Tech will require an additional Starport and Vikings.
In any event, you should have adequate material to either severely cripple your opponent, or easily defend your expansion.
Replays:
My Replays:
+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +Win. Nice build by Toss, good Immortal killing- but he had a failed drop. Win. Barely. Protoss puts up a wicked push, after being contained on 1 base. Destroys my Natural but thankfully I had just finished 3rd. Bodes well for build that it Contained him, his push was strong but fortunately I squeak by and etch out a win after slightly better Marco. Win. Failed Cannon Rush. Guy was cool as hell though. Protoss goes for some strange Gateway into Warp Ray build- fairly easy win. I fail at placing my Turrets though  Loss. This is the Exact army composition I discussed as a problem. Sentry/Stalker 4 gates. The guy pushes me and comes up with my ramp with balls, and owns. Good scouting for him, bad for me.
Community Replays:
If you do this build Good, and I'm sure tons are better than me, I'll post it here. I don't claim to be a master. This is my theory, and I'm positive I still haven't executed it 100%. TL member doing this build will be posted here.
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About Poster / Thread:
+ Show Spoiler +I've had a lot of fun in Beta. I'd like to do something to contribute to the evolution of Starcraft 2. I've had a great time on Team Liquid. Hopefully someone finds this build useful.
If there is anything I have learned during Beta, it's this build. It has worked well consistently since week 1 and I have refined it on the way. It's simple, clever, and I like it a lot.
I don't claim to be a great player. I have abnormally low APM... but, I am currently Platinum, was ranked as high as #2 but now am #9 because I've spent all day on this thread (lol). Now I'm 10-2 in Platinum. I first placed in Copper (literally) and have fought my way up through the course of beta and this is a little of what I've learned. I'm just average player who wants to contribute. Thanks for Reading.
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Nice thread but one question. I've faced many 3 barracks builds and none of them have been that strong against a 3gate infinite forcefied build and I'm wondering how you deal with such a build?
The build is simple 3 gate move out with 2-3 sentry and expand. Pylon right at his natural and keep warping in sentries until you have somewhere between 7 and 10. Protoss can easily contain Terran for 5+ minutes since you don't have factory for siege or medivacs.
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What's the advantage of going shield over stim? Has there been any experimentation on that front, or is shield definitively better for some reason?
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On June 06 2010 11:55 Darthturtle wrote:
What's the advantage of going shield over stim? Has there been any experimentation on that front, or is shield definitively better for some reason?
I opt for Shield in this case because of the large amount of Marines this build creates (more than 2 to 1 on Marauders) and the fact that you won't have Medivac's out if shit starts to go downhill. I typically won't Stim untill I have medivac's. That's just me.
And about the 3 gate, infinite Force field, best way is to get Tanks and basically Siege expand to get out. If you can push out before they start to Field your ramp, of course you'd be fine too.
edit: Generally, I've found that most Protoss lately are playing with a fear of Mech... so this build has become more effective. Immortal's and mixed gateway are easiest to deal.
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Wow... this is a very well-written guide. Excellent job!10/10 on presentation; I have yet to watch the replays and test the content theory though 
I don't play Terran but I will have my my Terran buddy try to master this build order and see how it works against me
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As my friends here have pointed out, some players might want to opt for stim. I find that a little more "risky"... especially for marines with 35 HP and no healing- maybe more "all in-ish"....
... but it might appeal to people. I think you'd have to start Stim a hair earlier to get it to finish at the same time as +1.
Thank you for the kind words, sir 
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This seems rather weak against a fast colossus addaption on robo tech.
It is quite possible for the protoss to have a colossus out before you attack and in conjunction with good force field usage your timing attack would be ineffective.
Also because of getting a factory only after you attack there will be a considerable window (~3 min after your attack) where you will not have any units capable of fighting colossi effectively.
If the protoss realizes this (which they likely would having an observer) they could continue colossus production and push you with 3 colossi + gateway units and I can't see your build having any way to deal with this as you would still be only on barracks units with mostly marines.
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yes my friend, I do believe stim is always better than shields upgrade.
good write up though, will certainly help out some players
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On June 06 2010 12:44 Equalizer wrote:
This seems rather weak against a fast colossus addaption on robo tech...
When I do it, the push usually comes Right as the first observer arrives.
I'm sure this is not the case if he fast tech towards Colossus, which I really wouldn't have a problem with either.
IMHO a fast Colossus isn't going to have a enough support to deal with this, and be easily Target Fired. 2 or 3 Colossus, would be a rare find. In fact I've yet to run into that.
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If this build catches a protoss off guard it can be pretty deadly. Conversely if the toss is going for a robo build, then they'll usually get an obs too, which will give away your build and give them some time to adjust to it. I dont think you'll see many toss with collosi at this time frame, but you could be seeing chargelots and sentries w/ stalkers, which would do pretty well against your army composition. Good build overall, will be interested in trying it out
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So i take it while doing this build, the protoss player cannot see your other 2 barracks and would be forced to assume you are most likely going for a 1/1/1 or mech variation? I like this build if that's so.
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Yes, you do hide your Other rax as much as possible. Most effective against anything out of Robo, even the 1 Colossus you might see. More than 9X out of 10 there... is no Colossus. The Missile Turrets I mentioned (since you should be rolling in gas)... do a pretty good job of hiding your unit composition as long as you hide your Army by the one at your ramp. They are more for Observers than they are for DT's... the added benefit is against Warp Rays and Drops... but its really there for the Obs.
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no protoss would ever go fast collosus vs this build, as a 1/1/1 variation would destroy it.
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On June 06 2010 13:16 stroggos wrote:
no protoss would ever go fast collosus vs this build, as a 1/1/1 variation would destroy it.
Exactly my point about players being "paranoid of mech" these days... by the time they scout whats up, they need to play turtle style- not you. And you can expand. The gateway thing is listed as far more of a concern that a fast tech to this "hard counter".
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yeah, i think the most likely openings would be 3 gate/+ a stargate vs this build, when they see the reactor on the rax i think most people will assume your going mech or this.
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I'd rather have Shield than Stim, especially in the event of Void Ray harass.
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Really nice presentation of the guide, thumbs up for you ;D
I will give that build a try, granted that I am not a good player, but I'll see how the build feels to me.
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On June 06 2010 13:53 Sclerosis wrote:
Really nice presentation of the guide, thumbs up for you ;D
I will give that build a try, granted that I am not a good player, but I'll see how the build feels to me.
It's great for that. Very strong, very easy to macro.
And it doesn't require a bunch of "harass while you macro" like the 1/1/1 build does, or reapers, or anything like that. Just don't forget to tech/expo when your DeltaForce is done
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Hi interessting build, but I think it has too many weaknesses to become standard.
1.Like you mentioned I think this is going to be very vulnerable to an early 4 gate aggression, with a lot of stalkers and sentrys.
Sentrys are INSANELY good against marines, its sick. (because of their shields)
2.Also I think your techlevel is just a little low, so it will be very hard to react properly to your opponent, there is not enough flexibility in your build.
lets say he gets dts, you will never be able to push him and he can easily expand and get storm.
also the dts are pretty nice when mixed in the army afterwards or just morphed to archons (they are not as horrible as people say)
If he gets collossus it will also be very hard to get vikings out in time.
ghosts of course are available fast, but still you only have one gas.
As soon as he gets storm your marines will melt away insanely fast.
3. No harrasment potential.
You only will have a sick ground force, but won't be very mobile.
if you want to push out he can just force field your/his ramp and/or harras you with void rays/phönix
If you had a raven or banshee, or even hellions you could scout and harras much better.
With htis build he seems to be free in his choices.
4. late stim and no medivacs.
stim increases your damage output massivly, probably more than the +1, it might even be better to favour the stim over the shield and then push in time before storm or collossus are out.
I play 1/1/1 opening against protoss, usually with early cloack.
-If he doesnt get a robo out, you have a free win.
-even if he has an obs, you can just cancel the cloack upgrade and use it for raven energy upgrade or ghost uprade.
-banshee can still harras without cloack and do nice in battles.
-after your banshee you can get a raven, it can harras, protects you from dts and counters stalker super duper well.
-you can get a fast hellion and scout his army and whole base, usually even get 2-3 probekills.
-if he gets many zealots add hellions to your army !
-build a reactor on your barracks and get mass marines, later add 2 more with techlab for ghosts and rauders.
then you can research stim and shield at the same time, usually do a timing attack before storm is up.
-void rays and phönix can be dealt with much easier if you get vikings
-if you want to play defensively you just get out tanks and expand.
the options are endless.
I was inspired to play like this by one of day9s daily, super good episode !
€: as you mentioned in the post above your build should be very easy to execute against a player of same skill level (if you are not so good)
the built i mentioned requires a lot of practice and skill, you always have to react properly and know when to get which units.
but if you master it it is insanely strong.
I will give your build a try though.
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Thanks for all the feedback.
My buddy and I labbed the build against "fast colossus" about 4X.
You pretty much have to go 1/1/1/1 (Gate > Cyber > Robo > Support) to BARELY get it out in time. You'd never have to deal with 2.
This guy I'm playing consistently stomps my face, in most MU, he's very good. Makes me think it does well against "hard counter" that pretty much would only be made with knowing this exact build is comming.
As for the tech problem, it is indeed a reality. Lack of harass doesn't bother me TOO much, because expanding Protoss always dies to this... in my experience.
Like you said, easy to execute. If you want to "flash it up" make sure build tech as you're pushing. Fact > Starport. It's not terribly difficult if you're really good at hotkey multitasking. Thing is, you're expanding also.
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Im gonna check on your replays now, maybe then I will add some more feedback.
I aswell tried this 1/1/1 style with anotehr terran buddy against many protoss players, for example Socke(gertam A player) or Chobo (one of the best polish players), it works so insanely well, its unbelievable.
Before I discovered this I screwed up all my TvP games.
What would you transition into if you get your expansion up and do some damage with your push, not killing him/wiinning the game though?
the lategame is my biggest problem against protoss, if you can emp his templers its basically a free win of course, but usually they always get some storms out and with all the upgrades up they just warp in one templar after another and turn my army into ashes.
Another little note for archons: keep in mind that emp only takes 100 shileds away, not the full shields.
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This is very similar to Fallen's 3-rax TvZ build that I sometimes use in TvZ and adapt for TvP.
The main deviation I make is that in TvP I have 2 tech labs and one reactor rather than the other way around. My second deviation for TvP is getting Concussive Shells and Stims. To compensate for the chance of a fast immortal, my push time is a couple minutes earlier, usually I have about ten marauders and ten marines each (rough guesstimate).
Marauders>Marines against Zealot/Stalker/Sentry. The only time I think would want to have 2 reactors is if I scouted a Void Ray all-in but the push should come before Void Rays come out anyways and even if one does get out you should have enough marines to take one or two down.
As some people pointed out, your build is susceptible to early sentries. You might want to consider two tech labs instead of two reactors.
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the game on Steppes of war:
perfect example of why 4 gate crushes this.
with some better execution and maybe a bunker you would have defended his push BUT if he had just chilled in front of your base and split your army with force fields etc when you push out - gg.
cloack banshee on the otehr hand (with some defending bunkers) would have sealed the deal for you.
(btw. you should scout for proxy gates earlier, your scout was too late imo)
game on scrap station:
lol, was this a placement match?
the guy played completly without a plan and got demolished of course, unfortunatly doesn't provide much information about yout strategy.
The game on Metalopolis:
besides that he screwed up horribly with hist first push it beautifully shows how a force field and a ramp completly shuts down all your units and possibilities.
Even although you had your expo up and running he could push out and rape your whole army.
not even thermal lance on collossus.
Anyways this was due to your macro and not because the strategy is bad, so the game nicely shows how this early push can contain the protoss for a long time, long enough to macro up so heavily that he has no chance at all to make a comeback.
Also a good example to show your insanely easy protoss macro is.
Overall some questions and tipps:
- Why reactor so late in all those games, does it have an idea behind it or did you just missmacro a little?
- Why orbital command so late, i think there is no need not to get the standard OC at 15, and then add the depot.
-Make a bunker.
If he comes to harras you with early stalkers it will be a pain in the butt without a bunker.
Also I would think about not getting a wall-in and just make a bunker at your choke.
thats how I play and it is way better against protoss imo.
If you see that he wants to steamroll you early on just wall of with 3 bunkers.
later on just sell bunker and get all money back.
€€:
Hyren you are wrong, marines >> marauders against sentry/zealot/stalker, just mix in a few marauders to mass marine.
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Gonna try out this build later, but is this supposed to hit right when the toss is doing the 3 gate 1 robo 2 immortal push? And if so, how do i deal with tosses that go heavy on zealots? If i use my MM ball to focus on the immortals, the zealots + sentry + stalkers just cut my marine ball down in no time. If i focus on the gateway units, the immortals will be left unscathed and they would usually pummel me since they also have reinforcements rallied over
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On June 06 2010 15:56 streamofhonour wrote:
Gonna try out this build later, but is this supposed to hit right when the toss is doing the 3 gate 1 robo 2 immortal push? And if so, how do i deal with tosses that go heavy on zealots? If i use my MM ball to focus on the immortals, the zealots + sentry + stalkers just cut my marine ball down in no time. If i focus on the gateway units, the immortals will be left unscathed and they would usually pummel me since they also have reinforcements rallied over
Always kill zealots first, cause they are dealing the most damage against all your units.
stalkers you dont have to worry about and immortals aren't your biggest concern either.
Their dps against marines is probably lower than zealots dps, if not, then only slightly higher (and if you look at the price of them ...  )
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Ya, Bunkers might be a nice Addition considering how much minerals you should have.
I wouldn't consider doing 2 tech /1 reactor- that would be a totally different build and would probably require 2 gas.
+ Show Spoiler +As some people pointed out, your build is susceptible to early sentries. You might want to consider two tech labs instead of two reactors. I really don't think the Tech labs are going to help with the sentries. Maybe a faster fact.
Also, I never claimed to execute the build order perfectly. It's an idea I shoot for. Sometimes I do it better than others.
The late Reactor you talk about may be to allow the first Rax to make at least 4 marines maybe 5. To help defend at wall. Also, getting the first marauders out early really helps with those stalkers at the choke.
Just got done playing TvP all night. It was a blast. Never did the 1/1/1 build thought I promise to give it a try. I've only used it vs Zerg thus far.
I'd be interested to hear if you do try this build... Cola.
Make sure you don't tell them its coming see how it holds up. If your opponent is obsessed with super fast Sentries and trying to FF your ramp- of course you'll have no choice but to Fact sooner. Let me know if it ever works. Once you get him Fearing your Tanks etc and he may abandon the fast Sentry attack, spring it on em... -.-
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Also, I never claimed to execute the build order perfectly. It's an idea I shoot for. Sometimes I do it better than others.
I know, thats why I said the fact that he came back on the metalopolis game doesn't mean your build is bad.
The advantage of making a bunker are:
-dont take any hits on marines
Also especially when he wnats to break you with zealot support, the bunker is rly rly rly nice.
-no wall-in needed (wall-in is always a weak spot if he goes for a massive attack and for example void rays)
If you dont wall in though, you need to scout for proxy gates and mass zealots etc.
-you might be able to get your reactors up faster and won't be so vulnerable while the reactors are made.
I will try the build later, it is only 10 am here, all my mates are sleeping 8]
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LoL I have a feeling if it works, you'll be able to post a better replay of my own build.
Just a hunch.
Lots of TvP tonight... man Templar's are sick.
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On June 06 2010 15:59 Cola.bier wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2010 15:56 streamofhonour wrote:
Gonna try out this build later, but is this supposed to hit right when the toss is doing the 3 gate 1 robo 2 immortal push? And if so, how do i deal with tosses that go heavy on zealots? If i use my MM ball to focus on the immortals, the zealots + sentry + stalkers just cut my marine ball down in no time. If i focus on the gateway units, the immortals will be left unscathed and they would usually pummel me since they also have reinforcements rallied over Always kill zealots first, cause they are dealing the most damage against all your units. stalkers you dont have to worry about and immortals aren't your biggest concern either. Their dps against marines is probably lower than zealots dps, if not, then only slightly higher (and if you look at the price of them ... )
ok thank you!
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http://rapidshare.com/files/395824760/Schrottplatz__63_.SC2Replay.html
Here is me doing the 1/1/1 thing against a random ladder guy (he had 9:0 until then)
The game is not that good, since i messed up my first attack by double stimming (makes marines die 1 hit faster from stalkers 8])
Notice how the later army composition is not very different from yours, but I think the opening is just safer and more flexible.
Notice how I have enough gas from one base to get cloack, raven energy and ghost energy.
Also notice how many kills the banshee gets.
In the final battle I dont even lose 10 supply, while he loses everything (after him winning the first big fight)
If you want more replays let me know.
And yep :p templars indeed are sick.
(I didnt know where to put the replay so i put it on rapidshare, its limited to 10 downloads though, so if you can tell me where i can upload replays .. would be sweet :D )
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For some reason, I can't open that file, it crashes my Starcraft2 every time it's almost done loading.
Maybe its an EU/US thing? IDK but it sucks.
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hmm yeah that sucks.
It works for me, was played this morning (aka 2 hours ago)
I will download it myself and see if I can open it, maybe just try to downlaod it again?
idk :/
€: i pulled it on the sc2.exe and it crashed to during the loading screen, try putting it in your sc2 folder and open it while you are on battle.net.
If it still doesnt work I can try to upload it again, maybe the file got damaged?
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Odd, usually drag/dropping is the best way to start...
It worked placed directly in the folder.
Great replay. Ya, that certainly was a hero Banshee. Like 18 kills.
I have never rushed for banshee in the whole beta... just been the way I play. The best part was easily your Micro (save the double-stim) with great EMP's and PDD.
The only thing I would comment on otherwise is that your Expansion seems really late. In fact, for both players. Maybe it's just the group I play with, but usually expand far faster. Certainly, the damage you did was easily enough to allow for a delay.
Here is a rep of +1/shied build Vs my buddy going for "Fast Colossus".
He is a far superior player... and I almost never win (99/100) vs him. Only because I knew what he was doing, and he admittedly made the mistake of going for a VoidRay follow up after the Colossus defended.
Since my Replay site seems to be bugging out I'll use rapidshare too:
http://rapidshare.com/files/395834051/_1ShieldLuck.SC2Replay.html
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Watched your replay and once again I start doubting that this PUSH is very good to deal damage/kill him.
If he had gotte na sentry out an blocked his ramp he would have stopped your attack even easier.
On the other hand though (!!) it seemed like he had no option to leave his base and expand, so I feel like if you wouldn't have attacked, but just contained him a little (not over commit to the contain) and gotten up your expo a little faster it would have been even better for you.
So I think you should use your timing push to deny any expasions and of course if it is possible kill him, but I feel like if you just use this nice timing to preven and expo and have yours up and running faster than him it could be quite nice.
then you just start hardcore macro mode and add vikings + medivacs + ghosts, if possible I would also LOVE to see ravens join the fight.
Love the fact that you can abuse those 2 reactors with your later tech buildings and get out all the untis you need to counter him super fast. (vikings, hellions etc.)
Here is another game with my 1/1/1 opening against Socke
It is from the last patch and I hope he doesn't mind me showing it to you guys.
it was just some random practice game and it shows how super much damage this 1 hellion at the start can do.
You will also see some earlier expansions in this game.
Just shows all the different possibiliets this build has.
Although my macro is a little sucky in the beginning and he harrasses me extremly nice with his phenixes, my later army compostion just destroys him. (+ the fact that some of his storms didn't quite go down so well)
http://rapidshare.com/files/395843302/LT_vs_Socke.SC2Replay.html
The expansions in the last replay that I posted indeed came a little late, but I felt like since I kileld so much stuff with his banshee and he is a little behind, he won't be able to tech for templars or expand, so I can just steamroll him.
If I expanded, he could have maybe done the same, or gotten out templars and then it gets to a stage of the game that I dont like as much
Still prefer my build over yours, but I think with some more adjustments and training it can be quite good, I will definitly try it out against some mates later.
Especially for makro oriented players it seems to be quite nice.
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Hm, I have a few questions on the build:
- Can't the protoss scout the build by seeing the lack of a refinery?
- If you scout enough assimilators to support a large number of sentries, or if the map has too many small chokes and ridges, shouldn't you get a couple of reapers? Sure they cost a lot of gas, but you'll need to snipe those sentries should they push, as well as threaten something that infinite forcefield doesn't protect them against (all the alternatives being starport tech). Not only that, but your minerals (and consequently supply) are invaluable in this build, so you can't really afford to lose too many scans, and reapers are formidable scouters that are cheap on minerals and supply. Finally, even if they have less range than marines, they are great zealot killers when behind the marine line.
- This build seems like it can defend itself against early aggression even without an walloff. In this case, isn't TLO's supply drop into CC opening applicable here?
- Finally, is it possible for P to defend and get +3/0/0 blinkstalk/colossi running? Colossi will do 21x2 damage AoE, so even with the shields upgrade and +1 armor you'll be denied of stim. With good control, the colossi will put the rines into the deep red while stalkers will easily clean it up, or shut down vikings with blink. Besides, with the required council, templar tech is right around the corner...
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Thanks for teaching me this build! After doing some sort of loose 3 rax, i was able to crush most of the tosses army whenever they pushed out
I do have one qn however. Is the 1/1/1 build applicable against toss? It seems that whenever i use that build i always get steamrolled by the 2 immortal push or the 4 warpgate rush since i always do not have enough units to defend
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Very versatile build. I've encountered it several times. I would like to add though, that if the protoss does DTs, you may be prepared to defend, but you are screwed unless the protoss does something stupid.
The moment those DT's are on the field, you have to run back to your base and stay there until you get ravens out. By the time that happens, protoss will already have a saturated expansion and High Templars to deal with your ball.
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The replays provided are terrible as all of your opponents are obviously low level (probably silver or lower) players. There's no reason to do this build since Marine/Tank/Raven is a lot stronger. However, the premise is correct -- 1 base builds are the only way to defeat a good toss player in TvP.
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On June 06 2010 23:12 Infiltrator wrote:
Very versatile build. I've encountered it several times. I would like to add though, that if the protoss does DTs, you may be prepared to defend, but you are screwed unless the protoss does something stupid.
The moment those DT's are on the field, you have to run back to your base and stay there until you get ravens out. By the time that happens, protoss will already have a saturated expansion and High Templars to deal with your ball.
This build is not that mineral heavy. You can totally afford to save up scans.
I generally do a little twist on this build, going single reaper first to mix things up in his base and force some precautionary measures. Then I take a fast, mostly unprotected expo, and with the extra cc, it's easy to have lots of scans when necessary.
Alternatively, on a map with a lot of smallish chokes, like scrap station or incineration zone, you can try a turret push if you scout dts, but that's more of a slow push.
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I think Protoss can just FF the ramp until he gets DT/Storm/2 Colossus. You have absolutely no counter against FF and GS. This strat may work in low level league, but once it gets to Diamond and with high APM, Marines and Marauders alone at 8 min don't stand a chance at the choke.
Also, I think if you get 2nd gas a bit earlier along with Ebay, you can do this kind of push alot faster. I think probably at 6 min mark. Instead of Shield get Stimpack, and without reactor delays, you can push even faster with 10 or so Marines and 3 or 4 Marauders.
Another thing I can suggest is to bring about 10 SCVs for all-in attack if you see him teching up or expanding.
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every 3 rax push can be held by forcefield if u dont play on lousy maps that is.
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On June 06 2010 23:31 {ToT}ColmA wrote:
every 3 rax push can be held by forcefield if u dont play on lousy maps that is.
That's why I think this build needs 1 Ghost...
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I remember when I used to do this build in the early days of the beta.
It was alright, and it really caught the Protoss off guard if he/she wasn't careful. Unfortunately though, I think that it's not the greatest asset because since the norm at this moment is infinite stalkers and sentries + blink, your marines will just mauled apart. Granted your marines are stronger, but decently microed Stalkers will be too much for them, even with marauder support.
But in all honesty, I might try this out one game. I've been fiddling with a lot of stupid TvP builds, as every single matchup I sort of randomly execute a build order and somehow get by.
EDIT: And I agree. Get a ghost somewhere in this build. Maybe sacrifice a marauder or two for that ghost academy and then save up for a ghost. I don't know how you would fit a ghost in here, but I did once with mild success. ><
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Heyho, unfortunatly I couldnt try the build today because I palyed in the zotac cup today and kept casting games after I got kicked out.
But for all the people who didn't read it I wont to point out again that I posted a good way to play 1/1/ against protoss (somebody asked about it)
And also that I said (and still think) that this build is gonna be a good opener to not die against early pushes and get an expasion up safe.
You should aim it more towards expanding, not towards attacking (only threatening an attack)
the things that make it "better" than the tlo build is that you dont give away your plan right away and you are a little safer against early pushes.
Also your opponent cannot just expand himself right away.
And last but not least I think it is easier to do.
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The main reason I made the build was because Immortals were such a problem at one point.
There is no doubt that sentries are a problem for infantry pushes (involving ramps)!
I also found it useful for that VoidRay shit Protoss was doing forever. Those 2 things are the reason I have used this build for so long.
edit: Like Cola said it's very nice to make sure Toss cant get quicker 2 base, as well.
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While I haven't tried this specific build yet (although I do intend to!) I wanted to say that the OP in this thread is a great example of how a guide should look! very good layout and overall thoroughness (if that's a word)
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On June 07 2010 00:54 Cola.bier wrote:And last but not least I think it is easier to do.
Probably the biggest reason why I like bio play. Until protoss gets templar, you don't really have to worry about a majority of P's tech, and you can just 1a and stim every so often for decent results.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/images/features/minerals.gif)
![[image loading]](http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/images/features/vespene.jpg)
