So I'm wondering if a worker rush would be at all possible? Obviously it'd be an all-in strategy since I can't imagine coming back from losing basically all your workers. But technically, if you out-micro'd your opponent in a worker rush, couldn't it be possible to instantly end the game?
Every time I've tried, it's failed miserably, but I'm not the best with controlling my units, so I'm wondering if anybody's ever had any success with it?
Some of the things I'm wondering are subtle things, like should you send all of your workers right away? Build one first? Leave a couple to mine? Wait until you get a zealot/marine/zergling or something? And which race would be the most effective for it? Probes due to shield regen, or maybe SCVs due to being able to repair each other (I think, anyway. Pretty sure they could in BW), and high HP?
I can only imagine this being effective when you know your opponent's starting position and the rush distance is very small, like Steppes of War. But it would be nice to hear anything anyone has to say about the subject.
The few times i've found worker rushing useful, is in close positions PvT, when scouting a 6 rax, you send about half your probes to the enemy base and fuck up mining there, either the first reaper stays there and finishes off the probes giving you enough time to get a stalker out, or you end up delaying mining like crazy, and the terran can't pump out much more.
Probe rushes were done in SC1. I imagine that it is even more powerful with the faster shield recharge rate in SC2 when units are not under attack. Some intense micro is needed. Of course, it's just for fun and is something you would do in a custom game with a friend. I would rage if I lost to something like this.
Workers rushes work best when you have an army behind you. I do worker rushes all the time when I'm Terran because the additional SCV can repair each other and your mech units, also they can throw down bunkers. The trick is that you don't take all your workers, just 4-6. Any more, and they can defensively micro so their econ beats yours. Any less and they don't make as significant impact in the battle. If you run into a stalemate, slap down some bunkers at a forward position and make siege tanks to creep up in their face. Its quite strong to do a rush with Terran bringing a couple SCV along, and can win you a lot of games. 4 SCV taken out of mining doesn't hurt your econ too incredibly bad so you're kinda on even footing still economically.
It works a whole lot better in 2v2s. Both players send 5 workers to one enemy right away, so the 10 workers should overwhelm the 8 or 9 that they have by the time you get there. I've won 20+ games doing this (bronze - gold), some by killing all their workers/main and winning outright, the rest by putting them far enough behind that you can build up an army and win normally.
Of course, if your opponent has any sort of common sense, it totally fails.
I imagine sending 4 probes vs a 6 rax reaper when you went 13 gate would be hilarious. Just wait for shields to regen and he's basically losing like all scv mining.
On July 25 2010 08:18 GoodNewsJim wrote: Workers rushes work best when you have an army behind you. I do worker rushes all the time when I'm Terran because the additional SCV can repair each other and your mech units, also they can throw down bunkers. The trick is that you don't take all your workers, just 4-6. Any more, and they can defensively micro so their econ beats yours. Any less and they don't make as significant impact in the battle. If you run into a stalemate, slap down some bunkers at a forward position and make siege tanks to creep up in their face. Its quite strong to do a rush with Terran bringing a couple SCV along, and can win you a lot of games. 4 SCV taken out of mining doesn't hurt your econ too incredibly bad so you're kinda on even footing still economically.
That's not a worker rush, that's attacking and taking some SCVs with you to repair...
On July 25 2010 08:31 Slayer91 wrote: I imagine sending 4 probes vs a 6 rax reaper when you went 13 gate would be hilarious. Just wait for shields to regen and he's basically losing like all scv mining.
Planetary Fortress Rush is a worker rush... sorta. Well, the only units you actually have throughout a planetary fortress rush are SCVs, and the CC is just a building, so... worker rush?
Sending a few probes on steppes of war against Terran can work if you have great micro. Probs >>> Scvs and will pretty much prevent much of their scvs from mining or building.
On July 25 2010 07:29 uberdeluxe wrote: lol... there was a pro map in BW with a rush distance so short you could SCV rush your opponant as T, actually.
anyway, probably a good idea to not do that, as not only is there the possibility that they might outmicro u, but they will also have more workers.
Blood Bath?
I wish I was into SC when they used that map... have only seen VODs
Tried it once in a 3's with my mates for a joke, we got totally slaughtered.. I cant see this working against anyone non-bronze league as they will have more workers by the time u get there
I think cheese can be fun and it has it's place, but what's the point of this? Seems a little extreme to want to win that fast. Even if you could figure out how to make it work what fun would it be? Sure you'd win a few games, but you'd never really play the game.
On July 25 2010 07:29 uberdeluxe wrote: lol... there was a pro map in BW with a rush distance so short you could SCV rush your opponant as T, actually.
anyway, probably a good idea to not do that, as not only is there the possibility that they might outmicro u, but they will also have more workers.
On July 25 2010 11:05 Taerix wrote: I think cheese can be fun and it has it's place, but what's the point of this? Seems a little extreme to want to win that fast. Even if you could figure out how to make it work what fun would it be? Sure you'd win a few games, but you'd never really play the game.
It wouldn't be something to do all the time. Just something to do once and a while to throw someone completely off their rocker.
I mean, how well are you going to play in a second game if you just lost your first one to a worker rush? There's gotta be some psychological impact there.
On July 25 2010 09:06 BaaL` wrote: If you play Protoss and micro perfectly for maximum shield regen, you might become unbeatable.
Really? How so? This definitely would not work versus the Terran SCV 100%, and it would definitely would not work versus another Protoss Probe since they will always have more probe than you do. Not sure about versus Zerg Drone though.
On July 25 2010 09:06 BaaL` wrote: If you play Protoss and micro perfectly for maximum shield regen, you might become unbeatable.
Really? How so? This definitely would not work versus the Terran SCV 100%, and it would definitely would not work versus another Protoss Probe since they will always have more probe than you do. Not sure about versus Zerg Drone though.
Okay, it will not work vs Protoss.
But against Z or T, you could kill all their workers? In any case, they cannot mine or build since that would require them to stay still. You can eventually kill them all, or kill his CC before he can get yours, because you are already in position.
I might be wrong though.
Question: is it true Zerg heals faster on creep? Edit: after some searching, I am almost positive they do not. Can't see for myself though, uninstalled
On July 25 2010 09:06 BaaL` wrote: If you play Protoss and micro perfectly for maximum shield regen, you might become unbeatable.
Really? How so? This definitely would not work versus the Terran SCV 100%, and it would definitely would not work versus another Protoss Probe since they will always have more probe than you do. Not sure about versus Zerg Drone though.
Moving injured probes to recover shields sounds like a doable strategy if your micro is good enough. Doesn't sound 100% impossible. You should really get your facts right.
It would work against Z too because shield recovery is much stronger than Z HP recovery
Question: is it true Zerg heals faster on creep? Edit: after some searching, I am almost positive they do not. Can't see for myself though, uninstalled
I'm quite certain it is not true. Common misconception.
On July 25 2010 11:07 Cofo wrote: On occasion I watch (IIRC) TTOne's stream, and I have seen him do this several times to great effect PvT on Steppes of War.
So if you rush with the initial 6 SCVs, you have 50 minerals worth of repairing (how much HP does that equal?). On super close rush distance maps, this MIGHT work TvP
well I play random because I get bored if I play the same race over and over. But once I got protoss like 8 times in a row, so I got bored and probe rushed the terran. It was a placement match, so it was pretty easy because the shields recharge.
On July 25 2010 07:29 uberdeluxe wrote: lol... there was a pro map in BW with a rush distance so short you could SCV rush your opponant as T, actually.
anyway, probably a good idea to not do that, as not only is there the possibility that they might outmicro u, but they will also have more workers.
Blood Bath?
I wish I was into SC when they used that map... have only seen VODs
They used to use blood bath in competition? Holy shit... I can only imagine.
It works alright in ZvT because they have to wall off (thus their SCVs are more vulnerable). I have done it a few times on Blistering Sands by taking 4 drones at 10 supply and killing their building SCV or their supply depot. If you can prevent them building long enough then you can get a spawning pool up before they have a wall and/or marines, and so you just follow up with 6+ zerglings.
It's not a particularly reliable strategy though. More funny than anything.
I've done it with a friend in 2 v 2, took out zerg players workers in twilight fortress then moved onto terran. he only managed to get a marines out before we got to him, and 12 probes > 7 scvs and a marine. Victory
One time I was playing a 2v2 and my ally dropped at the very start, so I probe rushed the terran enemy with all but 1 probe after I had built a couple probes myself. I managed to kill all of the terran's workers, then he just lifted his CC obviously. 30 Seconds later and his zerg ally brings in a flood of zerglings and all I have is a pylon and a half finished gateway... >.>
there no way it can work in solo....i dont see how could it work in 2s...seriously if you probe rush me i could prolly 1v2 you...by the time you get to my base im getting at least 3-4 probe ...+my 6 probe...so i just kite you til i have few more probe... yeah so im pretty sure you couldnt 2v1 me with probe rushing...would worth the try....
Just noticed this topic...and must say that it happened to me on the last day of beta on map stepes of war. I was terran and he was toss. He took his first 6 probes and attacked me asap then 1 more probe came litle later. I had 1 more scv than he had probes but i was shocked. He killed my scves with 1 of his probes still alive at the end.
Now all the time i was trying to mine at least with 1 of my scv so that i could build an additional scv and overpowered him but now i think that probably wasnt the best idea.
Anyone has any knowledge of this kind of rushes i would love to hear how they deffend against it?
the only way i could see a worker rush working is with rine/ling/lot support For terran get 5-10 marines 1st then send all your units to attack 10 suply 12 rax 13 rax 14 suply 22 suply
With zerg 6/7 pool and send drones with lins 6/7pool
With protoss 2 gate but instead of resuming probe production all out attack 9 Pylon 10 Chrono Boost Nexus 12 Gateway (Send scout, save Chrono Boost) 14 Gateway 15 Pylon 16 Zealot (stop making Probes, use Chrono Boost on Gateways) 18 Zealot 20 Zealot 20 Pylon 22 Zealot 24 Zealot
So I'm wondering if a worker rush would be at all possible? Obviously it'd be an all-in strategy since I can't imagine coming back from losing basically all your workers. But technically, if you out-micro'd your opponent in a worker rush, couldn't it be possible to instantly end the game?
Every time I've tried, it's failed miserably, but I'm not the best with controlling my units, so I'm wondering if anybody's ever had any success with it?
Some of the things I'm wondering are subtle things, like should you send all of your workers right away? Build one first? Leave a couple to mine? Wait until you get a zealot/marine/zergling or something? And which race would be the most effective for it? Probes due to shield regen, or maybe SCVs due to being able to repair each other (I think, anyway. Pretty sure they could in BW), and high HP?
I can only imagine this being effective when you know your opponent's starting position and the rush distance is very small, like Steppes of War. But it would be nice to hear anything anyone has to say about the subject.
I have tried this once, with protoss, however it isn't really worth it even if you out micro your opponent completly, because even on short distance maps like stepps of war your opponent will be able to build 2 additional workers during the time you move your "army" of harvesters to his base. And it requiers very intense micro to be able to prevent him from harvesting as well as not losing any of your workers. You need to out micro the health of at least 2-3 (Plus shield regeneration/repair/life regeneration) workers to be able to win the battle, in case you go for an "all in" and he builds two additional workers.
This is a harder way to win then using some sort of cheese strategy or just playing a normal game, in my opinion.
It's not something i would recommend in 1v1 . However a 2 harvester scout/harass in PvT or ZvT can be very successful with proper micro management and multitasking. And a scout harass in 2v2 where both players send one harvester scout each can also work well if both players harass the same target(s).
There are also some famous "all in" strategies that include harvesters in the unit combination.
On July 25 2010 13:29 Apollys wrote: One time I was playing a 2v2 and my ally dropped at the very start, so I probe rushed the terran enemy with all but 1 probe after I had built a couple probes myself. I managed to kill all of the terran's workers, then he just lifted his CC obviously. 30 Seconds later and his zerg ally brings in a flood of zerglings and all I have is a pylon and a half finished gateway... >.>
Lol, it is soo cool when the ally drops in 2v2 ^^ i build like 5 rax asap and pump marines non-stop. I've always won with it :D
As about worker rush, I was in a 2v2 and I saw my ally begun running his workers to the enemy, I decided to join him.. We were winning, till i started target-firing my allies workers (I taught they were enemy workers :/ )
Anyway, I think the worker rush can work well with terran vs toss/ zerg, you send your starting SCVs to the enemy, and build one worker which you send mining, that way you can kill one drone/ probe and backup and repair and attack again.
You can do it, for example on a short distance map like Steppes of War and if you are playing a zerg, and he does a really fast expand, you can bunker rush him, kill his natural, then get some SCVs to kill his natural along with marines and more bunkers. That's about the only way you can pull this off. If you just worker rush him in the beginning, you are screwed, they will have way more workers than u by the time u get there. Maybe, if you're zerg and do
yea i can see people all in rushing in certain situations. what i can think of include:
PvZ proxy 2 gate. send most of your probes and join the zealots to go for an all in rush. TvP, TvZ, 2-3rax timing rush, use the scvs to be the meat shield for the marines and do a little bit of damage.
i'm assuming that you didn't mean pure worker rush, which i can't think of any case succeeding =)
i probe rush alot on steppes because of the short distances and obviously because its a 2 player map, i mine 2 sets of minerals with my initial 6 probes so i can have 50 mins(this makes a huge difference in your macro, plus the delay gives the terran enought time to make his depot, if he decides to wall off then hes kinda screwed from the get go) then attack with 6 probes, chrono boost makes up for the rush but you still need to do decent damage or else u end up getting run over by a marine/marauder rush
On July 25 2010 18:55 Svizcy wrote: Just noticed this topic...and must say that it happened to me on the last day of beta on map stepes of war. I was terran and he was toss. He took his first 6 probes and attacked me asap then 1 more probe came litle later. I had 1 more scv than he had probes but i was shocked. He killed my scves with 1 of his probes still alive at the end.
Now all the time i was trying to mine at least with 1 of my scv so that i could build an additional scv and overpowered him but now i think that probably wasnt the best idea.
Anyone has any knowledge of this kind of rushes i would love to hear how they deffend against it?
good day, svizcy
I've been doing this rush a lot lately in bronze league (as Zerg). You need to take ALL of your workers and A move them into a good concave/surround. Don't micro them around too much or keep any mining or split them up or you won't be able to use your worker lead to your advantage.
I feel Zerg is a lot better at this than Terran because drones seem to naturally a-move into a concave/surround, while SCVs for some reason circle up with their backs against each other. Protoss might be even better due to the shields and range so perhaps I will try that.
This is a shameless self-promotion (also a diggity promotion), but it is possible to come back after a failed 12 drone rush at the upper-mid diamond (what would now be master) level:
On July 25 2010 12:50 wizard944 wrote: well I play random because I get bored if I play the same race over and over. But once I got protoss like 8 times in a row, so I got bored and probe rushed the terran. It was a placement match, so it was pretty easy because the shields recharge.
On July 25 2010 12:50 wizard944 wrote: well I play random because I get bored if I play the same race over and over. But once I got protoss like 8 times in a row, so I got bored and probe rushed the terran. It was a placement match, so it was pretty easy because the shields recharge.
You got 8 protoss' in your 5 placement matches?
There is practice league before placement matches.
My friend and I just had success with the 2v2 worker rush last night. He was random and happened to get protoss which was very useful because of shield regeneration. I play as Terran all the time. Our oppenent's partner probably should have helped right away or just sat back and built some attacking units. Instead he hesitated, then helped and didn't micro, and I only lost 1 SCV for the most part. We also had success when I did a 4-barracks proxy.
We did this because we were placed way too high and playing Diamond teams (I'm at best a gold level 1v1 Terran and he's a diamond 1v1 Protoss) so we thought the worker rush would move us down and be fun but maybe we'll keep winning.....
Here's a replay of that game. Please excuse my teammates bad manners.
I think worker rushes are always bound to fail agianst good players since the defender will almost always have more workers. The only worker rush that has a good chance of succes is a Zerg 12 drone rushing a Terran. But in the end even that comes down to the Terran not knowing how to respond.
I heard a story about a dude portrait mining the dark voice portrait by worker rushing. Not sure if it's just a story though. Worker rushes work pretty well against players who dont know how to attack move (= some bronze leaguers) so I could imagine it working somewhere there, if the map is small enough.
On April 14 2011 03:50 L4hlborg wrote: I heard a story about a dude portrait mining the dark voice portrait by worker rushing. Not sure if it's just a story though. Worker rushes work pretty well against players who dont know how to attack move (= some bronze leaguers) so I could imagine it working somewhere there, if the map is small enough.
Yeah he's mentioned on the worker rush liquipedia page, I forget his name but that's how the portrait was first gotten.
EPT
Worker Rush
