EPT[D]Patrol Micro to Avoid Clumping - Page 2
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
ViRo
United States137 Posts
| ||
|
OpRaider
United States307 Posts
On June 25 2010 22:52 Happy.fairytail wrote: very interesting, I will definitely use this since my APM is so low no no no, you should only do this if you can afford the apm to do it, thus you need a very high apm to pull this off , if you have low apm, its better to just a-move and macro. | ||
|
ImperialFenix
30 Posts
On June 25 2010 22:52 Happy.fairytail wrote: very interesting, I will definitely use this since my APM is so low Ditto for me. It should be useful. | ||
|
Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
On June 25 2010 19:52 Whole wrote: This is just amazing. It seems like as people find out these little tricks, SCII will get closer and closer to the spectating value of Brood War. I completely agree; little things like this are really pushing StarCraft II into a better place. I mean, spectating aside, just little tricks like this are going to slowly but surely change the game. Imagine how many things like this were discovered in Brood War, and then remember how long Brood War has been out.. Now imagine how many possibilities we'll have with StarCraft II. It's exciting. Great post. Always love seeing ideas like this. | ||
|
TaaiJoeng
Hong Kong164 Posts
| ||
|
Tookie22
United States187 Posts
| ||
|
Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On June 25 2010 23:32 Logo wrote: And when it's 20 units? or 30? or 50? At some point using the patrol micro is going to help spread out units more so than manually doing it. Plus the method you describes gives you 2 clumps of 4-8 units, not spread out units. So splash damage will still hit 4-8 units pretty consistently. First off, it doesn't give you 2 clumps of units, it gives you a line or arc. Some of the units go left, some go right, and some stay in the middle. Patrol micro just gets you a more spread out clump, not a good attack arc. If you have more units, you simply grab a larger chunk of them to spread out. If you have like 20-30 guys you grab 4-8 (25-33% of them). If you have 80 guys grab 20-30 at a time. A larger group already takes up more area naturally, spreading units doesn't change difficulty with a larger group, it actually gets easier, because chunks of units are easier to select. With the patrol micro, the units bounce off of each other and many in the back won't be able to do anything at all. Grabbing about one fourth to one third of your army and spreading them manually 2-3 times will be more effective than patrol, no matter the numbers, as your units will spread better, and therefore attack faster and better. | ||
|
PokePill
United States1048 Posts
| ||
|
Toads
Canada1795 Posts
 Who say there is no micro in starcraft 2 ? Not me  | ||
|
FC.Strike
United States621 Posts
Will try this out when the beta comes back | ||
|
Logo
United States7542 Posts
On June 26 2010 00:14 Fyrewolf wrote: First off, it doesn't give you 2 clumps of units, it gives you a line or arc. Some of the units go left, some go right, and some stay in the middle. Patrol micro just gets you a more spread out clump, not a good attack arc. If you have more units, you simply grab a larger chunk of them to spread out. If you have like 20-30 guys you grab 4-8 (25-33% of them). If you have 80 guys grab 20-30 at a time. A larger group already takes up more area naturally, spreading units doesn't change difficulty with a larger group, it actually gets easier, because chunks of units are easier to select. With the patrol micro, the units bounce off of each other and many in the back won't be able to do anything at all. Grabbing about one fourth to one third of your army and spreading them manually 2-3 times will be more effective than patrol, no matter the numbers, as your units will spread better, and therefore attack faster and better. Yeah, but what you're talking about is a different goal (better arc) than what patrol micro is good for (mitigating splash). Take Marines vs Banelings for example, especially something like a baneling drop. Your method means each baneling can hit a fair number of marines as they're in an arc/semi-clumped pattern. With patrol micro fewer marines will be hit by each baneling (assuming similar level of movement micro after the unit split). In marine vs baneling the arc or # of units firing doesn't matter nearly as much as the ability to split units. Another situation is ling vs hellion. Having the lings be spread out can make them a lot more effective when approaching hellions while having separate clumps is good, but not as good. Plus the two methods aren't mutually exclusive. You can patrol micro a clump to spread them out then use the magic box to move parts of the clump away from other parts (alternatively you can move apart, then patrol micro). It may not be useful, it may be, calling it either way it hard without really trying stuff out in game. Either way it's clear that moving parts of a clump is NOT the same as using patrol micro. They both accomplish different things. EDIT: Also here's a simple challenge. Take the same situation as the videos posted by the OP. Use your method of splitting and attack the tanks. Use that to prove that it's equal or more effective than the OP's unclumping method. | ||
|
Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On June 26 2010 00:30 Logo wrote: Yeah, but what you're talking about is a different goal (better arc) than what patrol micro is good for (mitigating splash). Take Marines vs Banelings for example, especially something like a baneling drop. Your method means each baneling can hit a fair number of marines as they're in an arc/semi-clumped pattern. With patrol micro fewer marines will be hit by each baneling (assuming similar level of movement micro after the unit split). In marine vs baneling the arc or # of units firing doesn't matter nearly as much as the ability to split units. Another situation is ling vs hellion. Having the lings be spread out can make them a lot more effective when approaching hellions while having separate clumps is good, but not as good. Plus the two methods aren't mutually exclusive. You can patrol micro a clump to spread them out then use the magic box to move parts of the clump away from other parts (alternatively you can move apart, then patrol micro). It may not be useful, it may be, calling it either way it hard without really trying stuff out in game. Either way it's clear that moving parts of a clump is NOT the same as using patrol micro. They both accomplish different things. EDIT: Also here's a simple challenge. Take the same situation as the videos posted by the OP. Use your method of splitting and attack the tanks. Use that to prove that it's equal or more effective than the OP's unclumping method. I understand where you're coming from, but I feel that this method of spreading will be inferior to regular spreading (Magic Box is something else from SC1, related to Formation, not the regular select box). Regular spreading works for more than Arcs too. Vs Banelings, retreating is the only immediate option. If you have time to spread to mitigate damage, more power to you, but I'd rather retreat them behind other meatier units the regular way, since there isn't time for much else. Again with zerglings vs hellions, how much you want in clumps and how much you want spread is your choice. If the zerglings are in a line, it's not the same as a clump, and a line gets a fast wrap around surround. My point is that you can split the units better the regular way than patrol micro. With Patrol, I see the units bouncing off each other and not advancing well, and poor positioning for attacking. I see this resulting in the force getting slaughtered in a actual game trying to use patrol micro, or at least, doing worse spazzing out in place than an army that is just as spread out from splash and ready to attack with all the units. I don't have the unit tester downloaded, and I wouldn't attack tanks head on anyway, so I can't be one to do testing right now, but I think that regular spreading spreads them better than patrol spreading. And that's for Vs Splash, Attack Arcs, or Anything that you would want to spread for. I'm not advocating multiple clumps. I'm advocating a better spread than what you can get with patrol. | ||
|
whoopadeedoo
United States427 Posts
This micro might have some use, like quickly minimizing EMP damage for toss. | ||
|
FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
EDIT: Didn't see poster above me already said the same thing  | ||
|
CryMore
United States497 Posts
| ||
|
FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On June 26 2010 02:58 xixecal wrote: Great find. This will probably be most effective against seige tanks because of the long range on the tanks, the units will not automatically attack them and clump up again. Have you tried this with zerg units like roaches/lings? I am curious on how an equal supply of speed roaches can take on a seige tank line with this trick, considering many zergs are very frustrated with the current state of ZvT mech. Well if units are hit by the tank they'll auto attack them even on patrol because it's reacting. Range is irrelevant I believe. Which is why for example in SC1 if a tank hits a goliath from far away, the goliath will start walking towards the tank to attack it. | ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States46483 Posts
This looks like it's very useful against armies where you see spellcasters but know that you won't be able to snipe them in time... | ||
|
Acidlineup
123 Posts
We have a move, attack, hold (which is very similiar to stop), stop and patrol. Why not this also? I meant it would still require some micro for u to actually press this button. It would definetely help protoss against EMP and not make all their units useless against a single ghost (and core terran army backin him up). | ||
|
FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On June 26 2010 03:07 Acidlineup wrote: Nice post. It made me thinking..Why dont they just implement a button for group scattering? We have a move, attack, hold (which is very similiar to stop), stop and patrol. Why not this also? I meant it would still require some micro for u to actually press this button. It would definetely help protoss against EMP and not make all their units useless against a single ghost (and core terran army backin him up). Would take away from micro immensely. Saying it still requires micro to click is kinda pointless. That's like saying, "I'm still microing by pushing one button, instead of trying to rapidly spread out my army with tons of clicks, etc." | ||
|
Acidlineup
123 Posts
On June 26 2010 03:14 FabledIntegral wrote: Would take away from micro immensely. Saying it still requires micro to click is kinda pointless. That's like saying, "I'm still microing by pushing one button, instead of trying to rapidly spread out my army with tons of clicks, etc." Well, i didnt mean for them to make it SO easy, therefore i apologise for not being precise. What i meant is for Blizz to implement a button that would allow u to scatter a group but to make it more efficiant if u manually scatter. that way we can have some advantage of group scattering button but also not so beneficial at high level play and IF u have awesome APM. Now we can argue what is micro and how and what would ruin the game, but take a look at the queen mechanic for an example. They gave u the option of building a queen and have 4 larva extra for the cost of having to return screen to ur base and press the button and constantly be on a lookout for queens energy. Another option is for u to simply make and extra hatchery at ur base and not macro at all but at the cost of 150 minerals extra and one larva less per turn. Same with as attack move command (is not efficient as focust fire manually), Same as patrol button (is not efficient as unit micro by urself) etc.. etc. see my point? | ||
| ||
