EPTThe problem with patrol is that once they attack, they end up clumping back together. Another problem was that when I used patrol, the army formation was always different when they attacked. Sometimes there'd be more lots in front, others there were less. It's very inconsistant. Splitting into groups is much more controlled and outcome is more predictable. In the end, it seems that breaking them into groups and keeping them apart when they attack works much better than patrol.
[D]Patrol Micro to Avoid Clumping - Page 4
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Calamity
Canada161 Posts
The problem with patrol is that once they attack, they end up clumping back together. Another problem was that when I used patrol, the army formation was always different when they attacked. Sometimes there'd be more lots in front, others there were less. It's very inconsistant. Splitting into groups is much more controlled and outcome is more predictable. In the end, it seems that breaking them into groups and keeping them apart when they attack works much better than patrol. | ||
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mint_julep
United States254 Posts
On June 27 2010 01:14 Calamity wrote: Alright so I just tested the splitting up into groups and the patrol against tanks. The problem with patrol is that once they attack, they end up clumping back together. Another problem was that when I used patrol, the army formation was always different when they attacked. Sometimes there'd be more lots in front, others there were less. It's very inconsistant. Splitting into groups is much more controlled and outcome is more predictable. In the end, it seems that breaking them into groups and keeping them apart when they attack works much better than patrol. I don't think that this is going to be anywhere near as useful as I hoped. It *may* end up giving an advantage vs splash damaging units, but the problem here is really that they reclump so quickly. I'm really frustrated with pathing in SC2. They 'fixed' it too much =[ Wouldn't it be awesome if only zerg units (or maybe just zerglings) used that pathing algorithm so that they felt more swarm-ey than the other race's units? Wouldn't it be an interesting dynamic to add to units beyond dmg/move rate/range if some actually executed different pathing algorithms? They would FEEL so different... | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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oppositional
Australia31 Posts
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az2
United States62 Posts
On June 28 2010 15:16 oppositional wrote: I'm pretty sure wc3 had a scatter command. I think it had something to do with patrol, perhaps you just do the patrol command on the same spot as the clump of units you want to scatter. Does anyone remember? In warcraft 3 there was a formation type button that let you choose if you wanted your selected units to make a formation or to move like normal. | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
It will not help a person IN combat, just before combat or out of combat. (because patrol works like attack move once you are fighting with an enemy) That said, I think it's pretty interesting, Because even group selecting 1/3 army 2 times and moving them away (army split) takes more time (although it's also maybe more effective). | ||
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
I can now charge tanks head on! lol maybe not... | ||
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Wr4ith_Bl4d3
Australia27 Posts
On June 29 2010 08:12 Xapti wrote: Some people might see your post as confusing. What you (OP) are talking about is just a fast way to spread out units a bit (whether or not that was your intention, that's what this is) It will not help a person IN combat, just before combat or out of combat. (because patrol works like attack move once you are fighting with an enemy) That said, I think it's pretty interesting, Because even group selecting 1/3 army 2 times and moving them away (army split) takes more time (although it's also maybe more effective). Yeah, the intent for my post is exactly what you said, a nifty technique which I associated with spreading units. I also didn't make any claims to how useful it is, simply because I don't have enough games to tell what is effective and what is not. I also definitely do not condone charging tanks, it's really a terrible idea no matter how you look at it. The tank charging vids are simply examples of how a scattered army using the technique can survive slightly longer than a clumped one. That said, I think it's good that we see both positive and negative reactions regarding the technique. And I'm looking forward to testing it in real games :D | ||
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QueueQueue
Canada1000 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
They expand if you shift queue patrols towards the enemy, as long as a unit hasn't reached the first patrol point (then they start going backwards) so with fast hands you can force them to spread semi-perfectly all the way to the target. also been working on hold position micro, it works best with mutalisks but banshees work almost as well. you need a slight delay more than mutas, but it's easy to get used to. roaches if you set to auto unburrow and hit burrow after every volley fired, they burrow, unburrow (almost immediately and are just barely ready to fire when they surface, this is good because it causes their units to retarget every time (ruining focus fire if it exists, and spreading damage better) as well as allowing roaches to regen around 15 each time while wasting no time. easy way to make your roaches alot more powerful. | ||
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oppositional
Australia31 Posts
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inTheMood
Norway128 Posts
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BlackDraft
United States64 Posts
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On June 26 2010 15:44 KawaiiRice wrote: The patrol micro looks like it's just some very inefficient way of spreading. I don't see what exactly is the big deal with it. agreed. | ||
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Smurfz
United States327 Posts
I really wish units didn't clump together so quickly. | ||
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Looky
United States1608 Posts
Against tanks i think you could have a small group of units and patrol it in first then click your main army to attack. Then move foward the small group so it doesnt make and arc and continue soaking up damage. Since it might take two hits before dieing since it was spead out | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 29 2010 22:24 BlackDraft wrote: That's great PrinceXizor for all roach armies if enemy has no detection, but Z usually has roaches up front to tank, and I wouldn't want to burrow-cycle all my roaches and have the enemy target my hydralisks. Perhaps if you alternated the burrow between two control groups of roaches? Even if they have detection, you still get the regen boost from being burrowed a little, while losing no attack time. that alone is invaluable. and yeah you could alternate if you need to tank for other units. | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
WC3 had defensive and random formations.. so cluttered But with underpowered units in SC2 tricks may be needed to distinguish skilled players from mass players, especially in team games. Good post. | ||
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ToxNub
Canada805 Posts
On June 30 2010 09:14 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Age of Empires had a scatter formation button T_T WC3 had defensive and random formations.. so cluttered But with underpowered units in SC2 tricks may be needed to distinguish skilled players from mass players, especially in team games. Good post. Ugh. This is something that always bothers me about TL. People think "skill" is finding retarded, non-obvious, combinations of nonsensical button presses that somehow translate into awesome micro. I mean, if the button was called something else, like "spread" and not "patrol", it might not be so ridiculous. But how does using a command called "patrol" to spread your units at all make any damn sense? It's the same deal with SC1. I love seeing amazing micro as much as the next guy. But if exploiting little gimmicky non-intended game mechanics is the name of the game, I'll find a better game. I fully accept that human ingenuity is going to discover and use anything they can to win, of course. To do any thing else in a competition is pointless. I do think, however, that these wonderful little mechanics should be part of the obvious game, and not arcane secrets known only to innermost circle of forum worshippers. Hey, did you know if you select 4 units, rally them to your oppnents base, press f4, pause the game, and then click patrol 4x in the same spot, your units walk 0.2m/s faster? Maybe I'm the only one (no, for sure, you all love that stuff), but I think if there is capability for any of these gimmicks, it should be well defined. Mentioned in the help menu. It should have a friggin place in the tutorial, and the interface should clearly tell you what you are doing when you do it. It doesn't mean it has to hold your hand. But without any sort of obvious "build in" mechanisms for players to discover this, it's really just an unfair advantage. Like playing poker and not telling somebody that a flush beats a straight. SURPRISE! I mean, granted, after long enough, people will eventually get curious how people pull stuff off and learn it themselves, but that's hardly ideal. There's no denying it takes a lot of skill to use these little quirks to your advantage, but that's not really the point. It's the fact that they're ridiculously disconnected with the game's theme and rational strategy in general. There's nothing in "The Art of War" about telling your armies to patrol in the middle of combat. | ||
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mikkelinen
Sweden61 Posts
On June 29 2010 15:27 PrinceXizor wrote: Random Micro things i found: They expand if you shift queue patrols towards the enemy, as long as a unit hasn't reached the first patrol point (then they start going backwards) so with fast hands you can force them to spread semi-perfectly all the way to the target. also been working on hold position micro, it works best with mutalisks but banshees work almost as well. you need a slight delay more than mutas, but it's easy to get used to. roaches if you set to auto unburrow and hit burrow after every volley fired, they burrow, unburrow (almost immediately and are just barely ready to fire when they surface, this is good because it causes their units to retarget every time (ruining focus fire if it exists, and spreading damage better) as well as allowing roaches to regen around 15 each time while wasting no time. easy way to make your roaches alot more powerful. That's pretty neat, watching the YouTubes it's interesting then adding on your information. I believe this could be a quick way to "baneling mine" without having to pay too much attention for a low APM player like me :b | ||
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