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Feefee
Canada556 Posts
Theorycrafting I know, but I don't see how the addition of a raven makes marine/tank go from mediocre to unbeatable. Heck, I don't even see how that prevents mass charge-zealot attacks. Marines will die from zealots/tank splash and you're golden, no? NVM on the zealots, forgot about banshees =P Voidray/lot still sounds countering though! | ||
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lovewithlea
168 Posts
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terranghost
United States980 Posts
Suggestion to switch to templar tech. Possibly countered by ghost emp but probally still helpful since there shouldnt be too many ghosts due to the amount of gas spent on ravens banshees and tanks. Switching to a zeolot heavy army to eliminate his advantage of the PDD might work initially. The terrans army compostion is probally mainly rines which are 50 min each and do 6 damage. If the terran builds an extra factory with a reactor. He can add a couple of hellions to the army which should pwn zeolots (especially after their upgrade from the tech lab you have anyway to produce tanks Also if the terran player is gas starved at the moment after rebuilding tanks or ravens then i can just produce the hellions out of the factory that cant produce tanks atm anyway due to the shortage of gas. As a terran player myself I find myself in the most trouble when the protoss starts moving in when im setting up (or havent even started setting up) what i usually do to help with this is move my ball of units out with a single marine or scv leading the charge from way ahead if the unit dies before reaching its destination then the protoss player is moving out press your tank hotkey and siege up from here you can prepare to leapfrog the tanks. Also while mules are helpful to help you macro up a ****ton of rines abusing your scanner sweeps while moving out is helpful too so you can scan the sides of your attack force if needed to make sure you are not getting hit on the side where the leading rine/scv cant see. you shouldnt have to worry too much about a observer following your attack force like I know some protoss players like to do since you have ravens and rines. | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
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halpmeh
United States333 Posts
banshees can probably snipe templars pretty well too with good control that said i think zeal/void with light sentry seems good while teching to temps...i don't think this is a standard opening certainly so this build should stay effective for awhile...will be interesting to see how this evolves :D... | ||
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DeMusliM
United Kingdom401 Posts
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Sentient
United States437 Posts
On May 01 2010 23:26 lovewithlea wrote: feedback the PDD? Can you do that?!?! On May 02 2010 00:41 halpmeh wrote: anyone saying templar tech is instant counter is simply ignoring that the terran can and should add a couple ghosts once it's scouted and the game evolves to multi-base play, that's called metagame If the Terran player gets a "couple ghosts", there aren't going to be many banshees or ravens at all on the field, so you don't need as many templar either. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
 it is a good opening build TvP. I will have to post a replay pack or something, the build for people wondering is:12 rax 13 gas 15 OC essentially, "standard economy build" and with first 100 gas factory, next 50 gas reactor on barracks. from there, continuous marine production from your barracks, starport, use the fact to tech lab it, then tech lab the fact again, 1 raven, continuous tank production (no siege), and that is it. from there, you have many options and transitions you can do, as well as being able to stop every single all-in build protoss can throw at you, including 4-5 warpgate all-ins. | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9104 Posts
I mean, I surprised this build works at all really. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On May 02 2010 01:55 Jonoman92 wrote: I'm a terran and haven't ever tried this BO. However, it seems like it'd have problems against zealot/sentry. The tanks get no bonus damage, the raven can't really do anything besides make an auto turret or two, and the guardian shield cuts down the marine's damage by a ton. I mean, I surprised this build works at all really. well, my tvp win/loss ratio is around 95% using exclusively this build for so many of my TvPs, soooo...it works. It works amazingly It has no problems against zealot/sentry unless you do not scout and change your unit composition. If you notice they are doing zealot/sentry, you simply get igniter hellions and banshees from your starport you then also have igniter drop options, transitions into ghost mech easily, transitions into airmech easily, or you can transition it back into a mass marauder bio. so, what's the surprise to the build working? It is the most versatile T opening any Terran can do right now vs anything. you have opportunity for aggression vs someone who might try to FE. you have opportunity for turtling with siege mode. you have opportunity for igniter harrass. you have opportunity to counter nony's phoenix style build/voidrays with the marines/raven/viking. you can expand afterwards (treat it very much like SC1 FD build). and more importantly, you can stop every multitude of protoss all-ins that they can do. if they go mass stalker/immortal, you have the PDD + tank (get siege), and accumulate banshees as well. If needed you work in a bunker. if they go collosus, you get vikings from your starport instead to neutralize and stay even or be at an advantage. if they go mass zealot/sentry b4 expo, you get igniter hellions and transition into igniter harrass. if they FE, you bust it, and you can bunker up their choke/contain, harrass it is probably the best TvP right now | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
1) The build is very tech-intensive and very slow to massing the proper unit composition. Because of this, the terran is probably stuck with one-base play for an extended period of time. If you see the build coming early enough (like with an observer), the proper response is to take an expansion. I think that your response in the fourth game was the absolute worst one: attacking into his tank-fortified choke with stalker/sentry and a few zealots. When in doubt, protoss players should be patient against terran players. It's almost always better to take an expansion and wait for the terran army to meet you in the field on your terms than to attack into his hardened position on his terms. 2) The build relies heavily upon the marines to provide a meatshield for tech units, specifically the tanks and banshees. If you can get rid of the marines quickly, then you'll be able to trash his tech units quickly. In reality, this principle isn't much different than in SC1 and the reason why you never see marine+tank against protoss in that game. As others have suggested, templar tech would be the perfect route to go. Feedback would trash his banshees and ravens, and storm will rip up his marines and allow your chargelots to get to his tanks. In the fourth game, you never teched beyond zealot/stalker/sentry. You basically were fighting his Tier 2/3 force (depending upon how you categorize tanks/banshees/ravens) with a bunch of Tier 1/1.5 units. That never is going to work out well. You don't even have an archives at the 16 minute mark even though you had been on 2 bases for quite some time. Get storm faster. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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shiftY803
200 Posts
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roemy
Germany432 Posts
 Main Page : yep | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9104 Posts
On May 02 2010 02:01 avilo wrote: well, my tvp win/loss ratio is around 95% using exclusively this build for so many of my TvPs, soooo...it works. It works amazingly It has no problems against zealot/sentry unless you do not scout and change your unit composition. If you notice they are doing zealot/sentry, you simply get igniter hellions and banshees from your starport you then also have igniter drop options, transitions into ghost mech easily, transitions into airmech easily, or you can transition it back into a mass marauder bio. so, what's the surprise to the build working? It is the most versatile T opening any Terran can do right now vs anything. you have opportunity for aggression vs someone who might try to FE. you have opportunity for turtling with siege mode. you have opportunity for igniter harrass. you have opportunity to counter nony's phoenix style build/voidrays with the marines/raven/viking. you can expand afterwards (treat it very much like SC1 FD build). and more importantly, you can stop every multitude of protoss all-ins that they can do. if they go mass stalker/immortal, you have the PDD + tank (get siege), and accumulate banshees as well. If needed you work in a bunker. if they go collosus, you get vikings from your starport instead to neutralize and stay even or be at an advantage. if they go mass zealot/sentry b4 expo, you get igniter hellions and transition into igniter harrass. if they FE, you bust it, and you can bunker up their choke/contain, harrass it is probably the best TvP right now thanks for the response, I guess I'll have to try it out. | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
The 2 builds that I use against this fast factory/starport tech is 2 zealot 1 stalker cyber - nexus, and the fast stargate with 2 void rays + zeal/stalker to control his ramp while expo'ing. I feel like with both of these builds I end up with a disadvantage if he responds correctly, however. | ||
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Tiamat
United States498 Posts
On May 01 2010 21:40 Liquid`Drone wrote: don't you mostly just have to make sure you engage him near his exit point so he is forced to use PDD in an area where you can simply retreat? ding ding ding! | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
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Orcmaniac
Canada17 Posts
So far im undefeated using it so it has merit and its much funnier to use then Marauder heavy. Im pretty sure it can stop any build if played properly and allow you to kill obs then adapt to whatever strat toss is making. | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
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