EPTI know a lot might say hellions, but the roaches kind of make that difficult, and banelings can still hit the bio ball while you're trying to do that.
Honest advice?
http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/2776
TvZDealing with mass speedling/baneling/muta/roach
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
McSnuggles
13 Posts
I know a lot might say hellions, but the roaches kind of make that difficult, and banelings can still hit the bio ball while you're trying to do that. Honest advice? http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/2776 | ||
|
Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
Don't stop making scvs. You had 21 at 11 minutes and an expo building. That expo will do nothing for you because you're not even saturated in your main at 11 minutes. You should have 40 scvs if you're doing extended 1 base like that. You lost because of macro, simple as that. That zerg was retarded. He made an inbase hatch for some reason before expanding. However, you played into his hands by running up the ramp with a handful of early pressure units. You even saw his lack of a fast expand and STILL moved out with a pressure force. You should've just bunkered your natural and expanded right there and you would've been so massively ahead if his attack failed that you would've automatically won. Never ever ever pressure a zerg who's choosing to 1 base. Also I don't recall ever seeing a scan go down in zerg's main. You would've seen the spire and not lost 2 banshees for nothing. Making those banshees was very questionable to begin with since you took SO long to get them out. As for dealing with that composition, I don't have any specific answers, but marines + tanks with medivac/raven support should be sufficient. You really need tanks to clear out roach and sieged tanks decimate banelings. They also shield your marines. | ||
|
McSnuggles
13 Posts
So FE bunker versus 1 base zerg? And yeah, one of my constant problems is scv production. Looking back, I realize that. More SCVs and I could have sustained more production/etc. I got into a bad mindset that made me lose track of what I was doing resource collector wise. I even noticed my lack of scvs multiple times, yet didn't remedy the problem. Can you really fight a zerg like that while forgoing marauders? My only problem with that is that if any lings get to your forces, you're suddenly friendly fire slaughtering your own men. | ||
|
MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
| ||
|
McSnuggles
13 Posts
Edit: Also, thanks. I never really knew what the proper course of action against a 1 base zerg was-I normally just pressured and treated them like a FEing zerg, which is likely the reason for a lot of my losses. Knowing to basically bunker down FE should help out. | ||
|
MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
| ||
|
McSnuggles
13 Posts
| ||
|
ROOTdrewbie
Canada1392 Posts
On April 30 2010 13:57 McSnuggles wrote: I need to admit that I'm embarrassed to be having trouble with zerg, considering how so many consider T the noskill race due to marauders, t is the hardest race... you crazy? Anyways i also have a LOT of problems dealing with this unit combo, i think that its really cost effective for the zerg and sooo hard to beat straight up, i find the best things to do are mass expos with planetary fortresses and go for drops and harass plays, also viking/banshee combo is good if you are sure that you are well defended from his ground force | ||
|
McSnuggles
13 Posts
On April 30 2010 15:26 drewbie.root wrote: t is the hardest race... you crazy? Anyways i also have a LOT of problems dealing with this unit combo, i think that its really cost effective for the zerg and sooo hard to beat straight up, i find the best things to do are mass expos with planetary fortresses and go for drops and harass plays, also viking/banshee combo is good if you are sure that you are well defended from his ground force My main is T, and the only reason I say that is because everyone on general forums [lol general forums] basically just says LOL ROCKIT BLACK DUDE T IS OP HOW DO YOU LOSE!? Also I watch Orbs stream sometimes and everyone, including him and his viewers, just bitch about how powerful they perceive T to be  | ||
|
MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
| ||
|
McSnuggles
13 Posts
| ||
|
Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On April 30 2010 15:29 w_Ender_w wrote: Yeah, Marauders are still the backbone of Terran Mech. I've often seen people go mech without even including tanks since Hellions are so effective against Hydra, Marauders are marginally effective against Hydra and very good against Roach/Infestor, and Thor's totally counter Mutas. I'm not usually one to bitch about semantics, but if you're making marauders it's not mech by definition. Mech implies factory-centric play. Mara/thor/hellion is not mech play. It's sort of its own beast. Mech play is tank/thor/hellion and mass roach with a handful of hydra is what you do vs that. Mara/thor/hellion is weak in that it can't change up composition to match zerg. I feel that the way to fight it is spam one unit like crazy, like roaches. Burn up all the units it counters (hellions/thors) and switch to whatever he's weak to and them spam that like crazy. It's like fighting Tmech in BW. Spam hydra like mad and then switch to mass muta when he undercommits to goliaths. Terran has to make sure his ball is pretty strong vs everything because he can't suddenly flood in 15 goliaths at once. Same here. Another thing to note: Don't make the mistake of target firing thors either. I see people do that all day, even really good players. Thors have really low dps per hp. Single thors are not scary, you can flood in a few slowlings even and that'll finish off the thors. Burn the hellions and maras first always. Also, you CAN get mutas vs that mix if he's light on the thors or overextending himself. Thors are beatable with mutas if you outnumber them badly enough. In that case you DO want to burn down the thors since hellions and marauders can't hit air. Not sure why I just ranted about something unrelated to the OP... Also drewbie is right, T is by far the hardest race to play at this point. I think perhaps things will change as more about this game is understood, but it doesn't surprise me since T units are so micro-intensive. | ||
|
MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
On April 30 2010 15:46 Floophead_III wrote: I'm not usually one to bitch about semantics, but if you're making marauders it's not mech by definition. Mech implies factory-centric play. Mara/thor/hellion is not mech play. It's sort of its own beast. Mech play is tank/thor/hellion and mass roach with a handful of hydra is what you do vs that. Mara/thor/hellion is weak in that it can't change up composition to match zerg. I feel that the way to fight it is spam one unit like crazy, like roaches. Burn up all the units it counters (hellions/thors) and switch to whatever he's weak to and them spam that like crazy. It's like fighting Tmech in BW. Spam hydra like mad and then switch to mass muta when he undercommits to goliaths. Terran has to make sure his ball is pretty strong vs everything because he can't suddenly flood in 15 goliaths at once. Same here. Another thing to note: Don't make the mistake of target firing thors either. I see people do that all day, even really good players. Thors have really low dps per hp. Single thors are not scary, you can flood in a few slowlings even and that'll finish off the thors. Burn the hellions and maras first always. Also, you CAN get mutas vs that mix if he's light on the thors or overextending himself. Thors are beatable with mutas if you outnumber them badly enough. In that case you DO want to burn down the thors since hellions and marauders can't hit air. Not sure why I just ranted about something unrelated to the OP... Also drewbie is right, T is by far the hardest race to play at this point. I think perhaps things will change as more about this game is understood, but it doesn't surprise me since T units are so micro-intensive. Ah, you're completely right. I guess it isn't really a technical full Mech play, but it's what I see a lot and it seems to be what players mean when they say mech. I don't think I've ever run up against a true mech build of just Hellion/Tank/Thor, nor do I really think it'd be that dangerous to face. I'd never thought of just spamming full on Roaches or something like that to blast whatever it counters, then follow up with whatever you need to kill whats left; I always tend to try to optimize my army to hit handle each thing he has, and not really think in waves like that. You certainly might have something there. I don't know if I completely agree about Hellion/Marauder/Thor being inflexible, insofar as it covers nearly every unit combination you can push out; the flexibility comes in what he emphasizes with his unit composition. Roach/Infestor/Ultralisk trouble? Go Marauder heavy. Hydra/Ling trouble? Hellion heavy. Mutalisk trouble? Thor heavy (I really think of Thor's as almost mainly useful as a 'cheap' Mutalisk counter since you only need to maintain a few to prevent Muta's from being effective army v army, and all the other units you have hit ground only). As far as Muta's against Mech... again, you're right. You CAN get them, but they can easily be rendered ineffective and are a huge economy sink if he's playing correctly. | ||
|
lew
Belgium205 Posts
 | ||
|
sadyque
Romania251 Posts
Also ghosts are not bad dps wise vs lings/mutas considering u can use the rest of your energy to snipe. | ||
|
Logo
United States7542 Posts
Also drewbie is right, T is by far the hardest race to play at this point. I think perhaps things will change as more about this game is understood, but it doesn't surprise me since T units are so micro-intensive. Not to side track the thread, but it depends on the skill level which is probably why you see bitching. Zerg can be really really unforgiving to players because of the way spawn larva works in comparison to the other macro abilities. Missing a MULE puts you behind until you spawn it and use the extra resources it provides. Every second you are missing spawn larva is a second of irreparable damage. If the zerg player isn't hitting their spawn larva consistently then their force isn't really going to outmatch the Terran and the Terran can probably just A-move an MMM ball to win. When players are skilled and don't miss spawn larva then the complaint doesn't apply and T could easily be considered the hardest race. | ||
|
lew
Belgium205 Posts
| ||
|
Frost.stropheum
United States71 Posts
| ||
|
lew
Belgium205 Posts
| ||
|
BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On May 06 2010 00:30 lew wrote: I am still having problems against this and I never saw a replay where someone won against muta baneling... This is just ridicilous. I win 2 matches easy vs someone, and the third game he goes muta baneling roach and I get destroyed so easely. You can't properly micro against banelings supported by other ground units, that's just impossible... Muta/baneling only punishes terrans who rely on marines for AA. Against muta/baneling you make enough thors to counter the muta, and the rest should be MedaMarauder with infantry upgrades. Or, you can go ravens w/ seeker missile instead of thors; but they take longer to get | ||
|
Lithose
United States31 Posts
On May 06 2010 00:30 lew wrote: I am still having problems against this and I never saw a replay where someone won against muta baneling... This is just ridicilous. I win 2 matches easy vs someone, and the third game he goes muta baneling roach and I get destroyed so easely. You can't properly micro against banelings supported by other ground units, that's just impossible... I don't have a replay for you...But a bio ball works. You just have to make sure your marauders and your rines are on different hotkeys, when you see the banelings, run the marines away and leave the rauders. They only do 22 damage to marauders since they aren't light. Its not easy but its how I have been dealing with them. | ||
|
Tanc
United States28 Posts
If you try and counter him, then it's about a 50/50 chance you'll win, depending on how many expos the zerg has. If you spam build turrets, you'r going to lose on the macro battle pretty bad, as that will force you to go pretty unit light. This will either make an extremely long game where you slowly push out expansions and eventually get smashed by brolords, or just a constant swarm from the zergs 7 bases to your 3. The last case is probably the best choice, but it makes it much harder to move out of your base since the lings/blings/roaches will smash your army if they're muta light. If they're muta heavy, you might be fine. It just takes too long to get this entire composition of enough thors to counter mutas, then marauders, tanks, and hellions with medivacs to counter lings/blings when the zerg player can get them so fast. If you only have 1 or 2 thors, 1 tank, like 4 hellions, 1 medivac, and 10ish marauders, you'll still get trampled by the zerg forces. It seems like you seriously need a handful of each unit to do any effective damage. But, by trying to either stop the zerg from expanding, or expanding your self while making these units is damn hard due to constant muta harass. Then, even when you finally do get enough units to manage a full frontal attack on the zerg, they'll just tech swap to full roaches/hydras and you'll likely never be able to tech swap back to counter their forces. I dunno, this is pretty much what happens to me in 90% of my zvt games, currently at around 1700 platinum, and zvt for me right now is crazy frustrating, as I'm constantly harassing the zerg player while trying to expand, it just makes no difference. It feels like I have to outplay the zerg player by miles in order to beat them in a macro game. | ||
| ||
