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Hey Guys,
I'm a plat ranked 20ish toss player here. I've recently noticed a significant increase in my win ratios after studying my build orders and I thought I'd share some of my ideas with you.
Here are a couple of my favorite build orders that work well for me.
Protoss v. Protoss 1v1 Small Maps--CHEESE
This works best on 1v1 maps such as Scrap Station/Steps of War etc.
Step 1 --
Immediately send one probe towards enemy base to proxy pylon.
10 - Pylon (proxy)
10 - Gateway
10 - 2nd Gate way (save chrono boost for zelots)
12 - Zelot
14 - Zelot
16 - Zelot
Attack
18 - Zelot
Pylon
Protoss v. Protoss -- Standard Play
9 - Pylon
11-12 Gateway
14 - Gas
16 - Pylon
17- Cyber Core
17 - Pylon
18 - Gas
At this point I usually chrono boost a stalker to kill the scout so I don't reveal whether I go robo or more gate ways.
Toss v Toss build really depends on what you scout your opponent doing.
If you happen to spawn near your opponents base and you scout that he went early robo -- I find that if you do a 4-5 warpgate with plenty of zelots -- you can do heavy damage if you do a nice timed early attack. Because of the close base distance, if you opponent goes early robo/immortal. You can quickly make a decent zelot heavy force that will overwhelm the imortals.
Protoss v. Terran Standard Safe Opening
This is my standard build for Protoss v. Terran
9 - Pylon
11 - Gateway -- 11 gate times with cyber core well to defend against reaper
14 - gas
16-17 ish - Cyber core
17 - pylon
18 - gas
From this point on -- it really depends open what you scouted or the map.
For maps with destructible back entrances from this point on I like to play a 3 warpgate 1 robo -- immortal early timing back door rush --- which either will win or inflict nice damage. If you can't win with the early timing push, don't be afraid to do damage and back off --- at this point you can usually grab your natural expansion.
Or if you scout that Terran went for Fast expansion you can do a 4-5 warpgate early timing rush followed by taking your natural expansion
Protoss v Zerg -- Fast Expansion Zerg
9 - Pylon
12 - Gate
14 - Gas
16 - Pylon
17-18 ish - cyber core
18 - Gas
From this point on If I have scouted that the Zerg is going fast expansion I cut probes at about 24-26 ish and do a 4-5 warpgate early timing push with lots of sentries and a even mix of zelots and stalkers. Once you do your timing push it is very important that you react to your opponent. If you spawns a lot of zerglings to defend, warp in zelots. If he goes roaches to defend warp in stalkers. Always keed a few sentries in for force field or shield.
Protoss v. Zerg - Defending Zerg Rush
9 - Pylong
12 - Gate
14 - Gas
By this point you should have scouted -- if you noticed that the zerg has spawned 6 or so zerglings and is rushing toward your base you should sim city your choke/ramp. Leave only enough room for a zelot to pass through and have him hold that point. Typically 2-3 zelots and a sentry can fend off any early zerg rush.
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Great Builds and I like how describe the next move after the initial build
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Protoss v. Terran Standard Safe Opening
This is my standard build for Protoss v. Terran
9 - Pylon
11 - Gateway -- 11 gate times with cyber core well to defend against reaper
14 - gas
16-17 ish - Cyber core
17 - pylon
18 - gas
I've done a similar build so many times but I just can't seem to counter the marauder push. All early units (lots, stalkers, sentries) get destroyed by just a few marauders. And if I DO happen to survive I'm usually contained in my base by the marauder until I can get immortals or speedlots.
I haven't won against terran in a long time.
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Excellent. I knew most of this already but it's still good to talk about it.
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On April 30 2010 06:54 Beanpaste wrote:
Protoss v. Protoss 1v1 Small Maps--CHEESE
This works best on 1v1 maps such as Scrap Station/Steps of War etc.
Step 1 --
Immediately send one probe towards enemy base to proxy pylon.
10 - Pylon (proxy)
10 - Gateway
10 - 2nd Gate way (save chrono boost for zelots)
12 - Zelot
14 - Zelot
16 - Zelot
Attack
18 - Zelot
Pylon
I'm curious here, is it really necessary to throw the first pylon up as a proxy considering that you won't be warping in more units until late when you get the cyber and warp-tech? Surely it would be safer to throw a standard pylon down at 9 (or 10) and get a proxy up later if required, once you get warp tech. If you throw a proxy down and he kills it off with his own 11 gateway>Boosted zealots you are popcap blocked until you get another up, which is just more time for him to prep. Also it could give away the rush before you get there.
However I get the feeling im missing something really obvious here, so feel free to point that out too 
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On May 03 2010 19:29 TheOracle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2010 06:54 Beanpaste wrote:
Protoss v. Protoss 1v1 Small Maps--CHEESE
This works best on 1v1 maps such as Scrap Station/Steps of War etc.
Step 1 --
Immediately send one probe towards enemy base to proxy pylon.
10 - Pylon (proxy)
10 - Gateway
10 - 2nd Gate way (save chrono boost for zelots)
12 - Zelot
14 - Zelot
16 - Zelot
Attack
18 - Zelot
Pylon I'm curious here, is it really necessary to throw the first pylon up as a proxy considering that you won't be warping in more units until late when you get the cyber and warp-tech? Surely it would be safer to throw a standard pylon down at 9 (or 10) and get a proxy up later if required, once you get warp tech. If you throw a proxy down and he kills it off with his own 11 gateway>Boosted zealots you are popcap blocked until you get another up, which is just more time for him to prep. Also it could give away the rush before you get there.
If i'm not mistaken, im simply assuming** that he's talking about both gateways being proxied as well (For instance on scrap station you put pylon+2 gateways on their side of the destructible rocks that runs across the middle of the map). If this isn't what the OP means i'd love for him to explain, but from some tournament footage thats what i gathered from that portion.
Good job with the BO's, very helpful and solid. Thanks.
@ the person asking for help with the marauder push, how many are we talking? Usually if i play it straight, he either has to push with 4-5 (maybe 6-7 if hes super fast and double rax really early) or is forced to wait till he has his main ball, dont see many pushing in between.
Small early wave - Depending on what you have built, i usually do a quick gate-->core--->robo, and pump a quick immortal to soak some dmg, and then build sentries/stalkers out of the gate, after the robo goes down throw a 2nd gateway to help with unit production. I would NOT suggest creating any zealots after the core goes down if you see marauders coming due to concussive will be researched before they get there. Thats how i do it, but i know others will have other ideas.
Big ball (Marauder/medivac/marines possible)- Everyone will have their ideas on this one, and it all comes down to preference, either colossi, HT's, DT's which any method should be accompied by zealots with legs, immortals, and sentries. (Been experimenting with DT's this reset and they 2-3 marauders depending on upgrades, throw 2 DT's into some marauders if the terran doesnt scan you'll wipe em out, or do pretty heavy dmg).
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Aah I see, I knew I was missing something, proxied gateways would make sense. That raises some other questions. If beanpaste (OP) could elaborate on placement of the proxy, how far from their base, how its hidden etc would be brilliant. With some more info I might give that a try. I've seen it fail against myself, but that was a rather hilarious situation where he managed to wall in his first 2 zealots behind the gateways and pylon itself
Given that the timing would be pretty good against a standard protoss build, where do you go if it doesn't work (I'd classify working as getting the GG, as if he is still in it would be an uphill struggle) Gateway>Forge>Cannons>Probe up and try to get back into the economy?
Also what things should you look out for when doing this? I'd really like to use it given that I find mirrors boring for standard play, but It seems a little too risky to do without more info (SC2 newbie here )
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On May 03 2010 20:14 TheOracle wrote:
Aah I see, I knew I was missing something, proxied gateways would make sense. That raises some other questions. If beanpaste (OP) could elaborate on placement of the proxy, how far from their base, how its hidden etc would be brilliant.
This is map dependent, really. General tips would be things like...
Don't build within view along normal scouting paths. Meaning don't build along the path a scout probe would take going from base to base.
As far as distance, it kind of depends on which probe you send out to build. On some maps you can actually build inside your opponents main base. The closer your gates are, the faster you zealots get there, but the more it hurts your economy (because you're sending out that probe a little bit sooner)
Hmm getting any deeper might require specific locations on given maps.
To the op:
One thing I would like to know is when are you chrono boosting? I've seen people chrono boost asap and 10pylon instead of 9. I've seen 9pylon chronoboost 10th probe and waste some of it waiting on the pylon. So I'm curious to know when and what you're using your chronoboosts on.
Otherwise I found this helpful 
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Protoss v. Protoss -- Standard Play
9 - Pylon
11-12 Gateway
14 - Gas
16 - Pylon
17- Cyber Core
17 - Pylon
18 - Gas
Why 2 Pylon's at 16 and 17 both? The Pylon at 16 will take you to 24 food capacity so there's no need for a 3rd one until much later than 17.
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I've yet to lose to T using Nony's Phoenix tactic. They're great against a turtling T who uses siege tanks, strong against maurader heavy pushes and can be used to harrass worker lines and keep the T in his base.
Build is basically 'Protoss v. Terran Standard Safe Opening' then a hidden stargate in your base that won't be scanned. If it gets scouted, heavy vikings can make the game very hard.
Works for PvP and PvZ too.
Edit: In looking for the replay link, what I said is actully said better here, apparently day9 already covered this....
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120316
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Ok im actually very noob and play just since some days, can someone tell me if number mean probes up or what else?
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the # means supply, the # displayed top right
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On May 03 2010 22:05 afraidz wrote:
Ok im actually very noob and play just since some days, can someone tell me if number mean probes up or what else?
It refers to the supply count you have, so in most cases for very early game it does mean how many workers you have. Until you start getting zealots or what not, and the supply jumps by 2 each time.
9- plyon means you build your pylon after the 9th probe is built, or when your supply reads 9/10- same thing, but can change later.
On May 03 2010 20:14 TheOracle wrote:Aah I see, I knew I was missing something, proxied gateways would make sense. That raises some other questions. If beanpaste (OP) could elaborate on placement of the proxy, how far from their base, how its hidden etc would be brilliant. With some more info I might give that a try. I've seen it fail against myself, but that was a rather hilarious situation where he managed to wall in his first 2 zealots behind the gateways and pylon itself Given that the timing would be pretty good against a standard protoss build, where do you go if it doesn't work (I'd classify working as getting the GG, as if he is still in it would be an uphill struggle) Gateway>Forge>Cannons>Probe up and try to get back into the economy? Also what things should you look out for when doing this? I'd really like to use it given that I find mirrors boring for standard play, but It seems a little too risky to do without more info (SC2 newbie here )
I highly advise against learning proxies as a new player. HIGHLY, highly. Proxies are mainly based on not getting scouted, or getting lucky that your opponent is going a heavy econ build. And relying on poor scouting or luck doesn't improve your game at all. Just learn solid build orders, and win by getting better.
PS. OP should stop supporting cheese builds IMO... but that's just cause I find cheese games to be annoying, whether I scout and win, or just fail and die. I'd rather play real game any day.
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There is no such thing as a real game, a win is a win. Be it due to cheese or not.
Only problem is, that if you cheese all the time you wont have the knowledge for mid to late game.
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Quick question, why do you prefer 12 gate to 13 gate on some of your build orders?
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I've started using 8-pylon and chronoboosting the remaining 2 probes to get 10/10 and scouting with the probe that built the pylon, then look for cheese and if the opponent is playing standard, just chronoboost next 2 and do 12gate or if you spot a ling rush, build forge at your choke and seal it completely. If you have better micro than me, build a gateway/zealot, but I usually fail to micro him properly, so I'm taking the safe route.
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against terran on small maps usually chronoboost to 10/10, then 10 pylon 10 gate to defend against 6rax reaper cheez
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thanks very much for the post, been looking for a while
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Dear plat toss players, please stop trying to proxy my base in PvP. Your rank really isn't that important, no one cares if you're 12th or 35th if all you can do is proxy rush.
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Void rays are the easy counter to marauders. You just need one void ray and one sentry to forcefield your entrance - he ain't getting into your base. Then wait for a couple more voids and go snipe his CC.
On May 03 2010 15:25 xmo wrote:Show nested quote +Protoss v. Terran Standard Safe Opening
This is my standard build for Protoss v. Terran
9 - Pylon
11 - Gateway -- 11 gate times with cyber core well to defend against reaper
14 - gas
16-17 ish - Cyber core
17 - pylon
18 - gas I've done a similar build so many times but I just can't seem to counter the marauder push. All early units (lots, stalkers, sentries) get destroyed by just a few marauders. And if I DO happen to survive I'm usually contained in my base by the marauder until I can get immortals or speedlots. I haven't won against terran in a long time.
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Would someone mind clarifying this line,
11 - Gateway -- 11 gate times with cyber core well to defend against reaper
Specifically the "11 gate times with cyber core", I do not understand /sad.
Also, with the exception of the cheese build, are Zealots assumed to be being built or is the number to the left strictly probes as the supply?
Thanks
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I assume that means that it finishes around the same time as a 16 cyber core in order to get stalkers/Sentries to stop the reaper harass that usually comes?
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On May 03 2010 15:25 xmo wrote:Show nested quote +Protoss v. Terran Standard Safe Opening
This is my standard build for Protoss v. Terran
9 - Pylon
11 - Gateway -- 11 gate times with cyber core well to defend against reaper
14 - gas
16-17 ish - Cyber core
17 - pylon
18 - gas I've done a similar build so many times but I just can't seem to counter the marauder push. All early units (lots, stalkers, sentries) get destroyed by just a few marauders. And if I DO happen to survive I'm usually contained in my base by the marauder until I can get immortals or speedlots. I haven't won against terran in a long time.
Try getting the robo before the second gas, or as your robo is finishing, then you can have an immortal chrono boosting before the push.
I lose to terrans who can EMP, other than that maurader push isn't scary, its more or so laughable.
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No 13 gateway builds? I tend to favor more heavily economic builds.
vs PvP double gateway cheese:
if I see him get fast double gateways normally I'll cut a couple probes (after 13) to throw down a forge and throw down a cannon or 2.
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Good builds, anyway you could put up a good Void Ray build or a way to defeat it? A lot of 'toss players I find always destroy me with mass voidrays. Charged voids do so much dmg.
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while watching day9 daily for nony's phoenixes, i managed to note two different openings:
10 pylon
10 gateway
13 gas
sometime after the gas, your gateway should be done building and you should throw down a cybernetics core
15 or 16 pylon (i didnt take note of this too well)
19 2nd gas
the point of the build order above is to get your gateway out earlier, so you can place your cy core earlier, however i think that this is less eco-friendly than the next opening.
there is also this opening:
9 pylon
12 gate
14 gas
16 pylon
17 core
19 2nd gas
this build above has a slightly later gateway timing, and you get your cybernetics after the pylon, so im guessing that this build is the mroe eco friendly of the two.
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if you do a nice timed early attack
If you can't win with the early timing push
do a 4-5 warpgate early timing rush
do a 4-5 warpgate early timing push
Once you do your timing push
I'm a very new player and I was just wondering what was meant by "timing" in these statements. I am a WC3 player and understand rush and push, but unsure about timed or timing. Does it have something to do with a specific time (ie 8 minutes) or what?
Thanks in advance for answering my nooblet question!
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United States5162 Posts
On May 04 2010 23:13 angrym0b wrote:I'm a very new player and I was just wondering what was meant by "timing" in these statements. I am a WC3 player and understand rush and push, but unsure about timed or timing. Does it have something to do with a specific time (ie 8 minutes) or what? Thanks in advance for answering my nooblet question!
In general, a timing attack is any attack that is timed so that you have the advantage when attacking. There is no hard definition that determines what makes a timing attack vs a regular attack. Times you have advantages include, but are not limited to, when opponent expands, when you gain an upgrade advantage, when opponent is teching, and I'm sure there are others.
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On May 04 2010 23:13 angrym0b wrote:I'm a very new player and I was just wondering what was meant by "timing" in these statements. I am a WC3 player and understand rush and push, but unsure about timed or timing. Does it have something to do with a specific time (ie 8 minutes) or what? Thanks in advance for answering my nooblet question!
Imagine a graph with 2 lines, representing the army strengths of each opponent. When there is a large gap between these two lines, there is a potential timing attack.
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Ah, right, I understand.
Thanks for explaining
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PvT Fast void rays
8pylon probe to scout
10 gateway then assimilator
Chronoboost 3 probes,transfer to gas ASAP
Build zealot when gate comes in to block ramp
14Cybernetics Core thenAssimilator then pylon
Chronoboost 3 probes for second gas
2nd zealot should be out to help with ramp
Cybernetics core is up build 2 sentry's w/ Chronoboost
Place Stargate at 21
Zealot for 22
22 gateway pylon
Chronoboost Void Ray for 23,24
This is the strat i used the past 6 pvt games and have won all 6. You can proxy stargate or double stargate if ur feeling like a risk taker (minus 1 zealot and 1 sentry for this build). Also, from this build u can try the new mothership tech, dont have a build order for it but have seen it a few times and tried it out a couple games with success, idk how to load replays or i would. Good thread..
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On May 05 2010 07:50 TheFakeOne wrote:
Place Stargate at 21
Zealot for 22
22 gateway pylon
disregard. Im a moron.
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EPT
