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The standard zerg eco build is now 14 pool, 15 hatch. It gets your pool out relatively quickly, and if someone comes in for the cheese, you have some lings to handle it - while still having time to cancel your hatch if you need to. If you double build queens on your first base, the second pops out just after the 2nd hatch finishes.
I feel like this cannons strat will work - for a time. The key here is to scout (as always). If you see it, at 10/10, build your pool then. If you see it after your pool already went down at 14, you need to build 2 sunkens immediately. The first queen ability you should pull out is creep tumor so you can spread it around your base to prevent cannon from getting close.
From there, you have some options. Tech to one of either: drop, nydus, muta - but I wouldn't try and take the cannon headstrong. It's much easier to just go around them.
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On April 30 2010 06:37 kameelyan wrote:
The standard zerg eco build is now 14 pool, 15 hatch. It gets your pool out relatively quickly, and if someone comes in for the cheese, you have some lings to handle it - while still having time to cancel your hatch if you need to. If you double build queens on your first base, the second pops out just after the 2nd hatch finishes.
I feel like this cannons strat will work - for a time. The key here is to scout (as always). If you see it, at 10/10, build your pool then. If you see it after your pool already went down at 14, you need to build 2 sunkens immediately. The first queen ability you should pull out is creep tumor so you can spread it around your base to prevent cannon from getting close.
From there, you have some options. Tech to one of either: drop, nydus, muta - but I wouldn't try and take the cannon headstrong. It's much easier to just go around them.
cannons have detection right? Wouldn't they just one shot the creep tumor?
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You would put the tumor just out of range of the cannons, and that would expand your creep to very close to the cannons. Then you can build spine crawlers around your hatch, uproot them, and move them into range of the cannons.
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Platinum is not any sort of high level play. Even #1 platinum in most divisions is basically d/d+ level on iccup. You just made a post about how usually 'good' players are getting lazy when they were never good at all.
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Couple things.
It sounds like you have a solid understanding of the early game and have competent micro skills. This is enough to get you into the top 10 in Platinum by using proxy strategies. Period.
The trouble with only playing the early game is that you will only understand and have experience with the early game. Eventually, these players who do not scout proxys and who have too little defense with their fast expansions will scout the proxys and will have a little more defense, and what do you do then when they can continue to move into that late, economic game that you never win?
Finally, I'm not sure what you mean by "being lazy," but I'll assume you mean that players who favor a fast, heavy economic build are lazy. I don't think you would call them lazy in Brood War, which has a heavy focus on economic games. I would say that Brood War players have more finesse and understanding of overall mechanics, though, so they can avoid being "cheesed." I'm fairly confident we'll see the same trends in Starcraft 2, once players become more competent. The economic builds just require a deeper understanding of the game than a one-base, all-in type strategy, which most players tend to favor at the moment, which is only natural considering they can't possibly have a deep understanding of the game, yet.
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plat isnt hard to get into. i've played against plently of plat players who seemed to play like their in copper league.
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The platinum rankings atm are a bit of a joke with the new bug thats going on where everyone is favoured anyway, it basically turns it into a who has the more wins contest rather than a more skill-based contest like it was before patch 9/10. Hoping they change it before release =\
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On April 30 2010 08:06 faction123 wrote:
Platinum is not any sort of high level play. Even #1 platinum in most divisions is basically d/d+ level on iccup. You just made a post about how usually 'good' players are getting lazy when they were never good at all.
Your first statement is complete and utter bullshit. This might be true in very rare circumstances but i can assure you most people who are #1 platinum are better than D+
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Yeah platinum is nothing special, hopefully blizzard will remedy this. Along with the topic tho...
It seems that USA Players are trying to jump past the whole figuring out offensive builds and are moving into the BW mentality of the safe FEs. By doing what you're diong you're definitely helping the community move forward by understanding early offensives and soon we'll understand how to combat that while making the FE.
Once that happens...you may be forced to learn mid->endgame. =D
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I always FE and have gotten cannnon rushed so easy to push back, by the time you send your zealot you may get to my main with it but I will have zerglings just popping out to stop it but keep doing the cheese play if its fun do it it just doesn't help you improve in the long run 
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You, sir, are one of the many reasons I rarely ever 13pool vs P anymore.
On April 30 2010 08:56 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2010 08:06 faction123 wrote:
Platinum is not any sort of high level play. Even #1 platinum in most divisions is basically d/d+ level on iccup. You just made a post about how usually 'good' players are getting lazy when they were never good at all. Your first statement is complete and utter bullshit. This might be true in very rare circumstances but i can assure you most people who are #1 platinum are better than D+
not by much. I was ranked 1 earlier today and I'm only C- iccup.
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If they lose to a cannon rush they scout late, don't notice buildings missing from your main and react slowly. All they need to do is build spine crawlers to stop the line of cannons from advancing.
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On April 30 2010 09:11 zomgzergrush wrote:You, sir, are one of the many reasons I rarely ever 13pool vs P anymore. Show nested quote +On April 30 2010 08:56 Divinek wrote:On April 30 2010 08:06 faction123 wrote:
Platinum is not any sort of high level play. Even #1 platinum in most divisions is basically d/d+ level on iccup. You just made a post about how usually 'good' players are getting lazy when they were never good at all. Your first statement is complete and utter bullshit. This might be true in very rare circumstances but i can assure you most people who are #1 platinum are better than D+ not by much. I was ranked 1 earlier today and I'm only C- iccup.
i was the one who over took you (ive been holding it on and off for a while) and i didnt even play iccup. GFG.
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I think early Z units are strong to compensate for the role Blizzard decided to give them in SC2. They *decided* that Zerg should be able to fast expand pretty safely versus all races if they micro well, but forgot that Zerg has been completely changed. They're no longer the fragile mass-up race that they were. Roaches and Hydras are tanks with incredible dps, and mutas are stronger than ever (disregarding skilled muta micro in SC1).
The problem right now is the limitations on builds. I find myself going mass marauders on a platinum level against almost every matchup, and its a very, very boring unit compared to vulture/tank and marine/firebat.
Protoss pretty much has the same build against all races, and hidden tech gimmicks have less potential for rewards than ever.
Don't get me started on the downgrade in Zerg unit diversity..
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Just to clarify, I don't blindly mass cannons Every game. I use it to punish heavy Eco builds. I made this thread to create some awareness and discussion. I learn a lot of great strategy on these forums and like to contribute my little piece. Also, to clarify my use of words "greedy" and "lazy"; I'm not trying to insult anyone. I am referring to the current trend of having a blind standard openning that is Eco heavy without properly scouting or anticipating early pressure.
Resource collection rate is so much faster than in broodwar. Players can start beating on each other a lot sooner. My personal prediction is that 10 pool will become standard Zerg play, except maybe on larger maps. Just my opinion, game has lots of time to develop and 2 more expansions.
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=D everyone cheeses on europe, but america is a bit more macro oriented
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I agree. It's almost as if there is a gentlemen's agreement to just go uber economy and not pressure early on.
If you can take quick victory by being aggressive, why not?
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Well, most PvTs I play involve some sort of early reaper; I don't know how early would qualify as a cheese, but I just got 8rax-->reaper'd. I won eventually, but I wouldn't say that plat players are all macro oriented.
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On April 30 2010 08:55 Ftrunkz wrote:
The platinum rankings atm are a bit of a joke with the new bug thats going on where everyone is favoured anyway, it basically turns it into a who has the more wins contest rather than a more skill-based contest like it was before patch 9/10. Hoping they change it before release =\
just last night I've starting to see games where I was "slightly favored"....and ever since then whenever I lost...I lost 10+ pts and when I won..I won like 10-14 pts..
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any z that goes hatch before pool is a nub and deserves to be punished
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EPT
