this is not SC1. zerg can play FINE on 1 base, JUST like the other races. if anything I find 1 base almost more frightening because I won't have all early-game to do whatever i want.

its just easier to FE as zerg so zerg players still do it. thats why a lot of zerg players lose with FE vs heavy harassment/rushes

Floophead_III

United States1832 Posts

April 30 2010 04:20 GMT

#62

On April 30 2010 12:07 PhiliBiRD wrote:

Show nested quote +

You have to make the hatchery for unit production. That hatchery might as well be at an expo. 90% of the time you lose from an FE you would've lost on 1 base too. You know what zerg on 1 base is? A joke. All you do is mass up and block their aggression and you win. 1 base zerg has no power to tech switch.

t3tsubo

Canada682 Posts

April 30 2010 04:30 GMT

#63

i watched the replays and tried this stat, it does work, even though the reps of the OP are not very good (missing probe production, bad mineral/zealot timings, weak micro and unrefined opponent BO's), this definitely counters a zerg who goes 13 pool 15 hatch or something similar.

On blistering sands you can even pretend to be walling off your choke and doing the backdoor as main exit strat, getting the zerg to think you are going eco - this has worked the best for me personally. But versus 1 base play, and versus decent toss and terren players, this strat isnt very viable unless they are so greedy that u have your cannon in range of workers before they have troops out.

Its still kinda a BM strat tho, I'm not the biggest fan.

SuperJongMan

Jamaica11586 Posts

April 30 2010 04:37 GMT

#64

Nope. I chz many game.
Some thing nevers change.

MLG_Wiggin

United States767 Posts

April 30 2010 04:57 GMT

#65

On April 30 2010 12:07 PhiliBiRD wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'm going to have to disagree with this. Zerg is still the "weaker units that you have to outnumber people with" race. If I'm stuck at 1 base, even ZvZ, I'm going to lose, it's that simple. Terran and Protoss can field far more efficient and dangerous armies at equal supply as Zerg.

Rabiator

Germany3948 Posts

April 30 2010 05:39 GMT

#66

On April 30 2010 02:05 AmstAff wrote:
why should you cheese, if you know your macro/micro is better? usually i dont cheese, cause most of the time i think i wont have problems in mid-/lategame if i get into that phase without disadvantage.

Yep ... as Day[9] always says: "Why win now with an 80% chance, when you can win 100% a few minutes later?"

Cheese is also taking risks and most of the top games are more about staying alive longer than the enemy than aggressively winning the game. When your opponent has the counter units for your forces you need to stay alive to be able to tech switch. Thats why defense is more important than offense. Sure it isnt as "flashy", but its still more important. While defending you are on your "home turf" and you can add the firepower of your static defenses there, so an attack is always risky, because units move really fast in SC2.

As a Protoss you can easily replenish units with Warp Gates and Chrono Boost, but the other races arent that lucky and actually dont get them in just a few seconds. This comment is directed to the OP ...

spinesheath

Germany8679 Posts

April 30 2010 06:20 GMT

#67

On April 30 2010 13:57 w_Ender_w wrote:

Show nested quote +

That is definitely true, especially the protoss blob gets insanely strong once it hits some critical mass. Zerg doesn't have to expand that quickly though. Expanding after your lair is done is perfectly viable in most cases.

Apexplayer

United States406 Posts

April 30 2010 06:33 GMT

#68

Don't do cheese, you don't learn from it and it's beta, practice apm and learn macro

goszar

Belarus119 Posts

April 30 2010 10:11 GMT

#69

The metagame is already going in circles. It is almost impossible to FE ZvP now because most Toss players cheese or go 4gate all-in. Zerg has to play 1base roachfest again.
No, there isn't any imbalance. It is purely map problem and lack of defender advantage.

ManiacTheZealot

United States490 Posts

April 30 2010 10:24 GMT

#70

On April 30 2010 19:11 goszar wrote:
The metagame is already going in circles. It is almost impossible to FE ZvP now because most Toss players cheese or go 4gate all-in. Zerg has to play 1base roachfest again.
No, there isn't any imbalance. It is purely map problem and lack of defender advantage.

4 gate can be stopped with spine crawlers. Don't tech to lair just drone up, get spine crawlers down and 3 to 4 queens out in case he jukes you and makes a stargate. 4 Queens can also heal the spine crawlers which makes them like invincible. You can make roaches or speedlings whichever you prefer. I prefer speedlings since they build faster. And if you can don't ever let him hide a proxy pylon before he moves out of his base. That will save him time and the attack will come faster. If he has to wait for his pylon to go up you'll have a ton of time to build more zerglings.

Bloodwolf

Costa Rica32 Posts

April 30 2010 15:29 GMT

#71

I say it's definitely interesting and worth a shot.

Might watch reps once I get home

Motiva

United States1774 Posts

April 30 2010 15:32 GMT

#72

I know i'm greedy as hell

It's beta. Now is the time to push the greed to the limits and find out how many drones exactly I can get in time.

starcraft911

Korea (South)1263 Posts

April 30 2010 15:51 GMT

#73

this thread reminds me of zpux getting smashed by a bad in zotac 9. The guy went blind 5 warpgate void prism off 1 base and dropped his main w/ 3 zealots and 1 sentry then warped units in non stop until zpux was dead.

Therapist

United States97 Posts

April 30 2010 17:43 GMT

#74

Your cannon cheese is stoppable even with FE, the first PvZ with split cannons the zerg sent all his lings to kill the cannons at his natural with 0 defense at his main. The second PvZ the zerg scouted and still went 15 pool, maybe he thought on that map you were going to cannon choke FE.

sc2lover

France1 Post

May 03 2010 09:33 GMT

#75

Very interesting discussion going on here, and now i'm wondering if I have the right approach to the game.

As Z i FE both against P and T, but I tech really fast to lair (something like 14 pool 15 hatch 15 gas and when I gathered about 130 gas I tech) in order to get fast hydras so I don't get crushed by fast banshees or fast void ray. But this sometimes results in me losing against pure 4 warp gates rush, but at least I counter 3 warp gates + 1 stargate void ray rush effectively. I have seen some players use a different approach, making 3 queens, droning up fast and teching once they gathered about 300 gas. Some players tech even later, basically once they have 30-32 drones gathering minerals.

Do u think my approach is good? If not, which one would u say is the best way to improve one's skill over time? Am I metagaming?

RaiZ

2813 Posts

May 03 2010 09:48 GMT

#76

On April 30 2010 04:51 Holden Caulfield wrote:

Show nested quote +

No, there is not. You sir seems to be a reasonable person.

Lol ? I'd definitely do that. If there's a way that could allow me to win the game then i don't know why the fuck not.
Seriously ?
We need to use every imbalanced cheese we can think of before the game is released in order to make it a balanced one.
If not then the game won't be competitive. Sad but true.
And don't tell me you wouldn't do cheese in order to win money... That'd be the most retarded thing to do, assuming you need money. If not you're all on your own by participating to this tournament.