Terran vs Protoss - Page 6

On April 15 2010 00:40 Bibdy wrote:
However you want to think of it, Chrono Boost always takes 10 seconds off the current build time. Why? Because you're doing 30 seconds of 'work' in 20 seconds.

If you build 2 Probes, and Chrono, you get them in 24 seconds, not 34.
If you Chrono a Zealot, you get it in 23 seconds, not 33.
If you Chrono a Stalker, you get it in 32 seconds, not 42.
And if you Chrono an Immortal, you get it in 40 seconds, not 50.

And if you think nerfing Force Field is such a great idea, what exactly would you like the big flag in front of our base to say? "Welcoming all Zerg, particularly Banelings! Come join the party!"

On April 14 2010 23:58 Markwerf wrote:
@ louder, you got the working of chronoboost wrong. Chronoboost boosts production by 50%, in other words build time becomes 66% (1 / 1.5) of the original and NOT 50%. Thus boosted immortals take 26.7 secs.

@ diaspora
toss always opens fast cyber against terran, just for the possibility of a fast stalker. After cyber completion and before the stalker finishes terran has a gap of seeing what build the toss will open with, fast immortal or multiple gateways. The problem is that even if you do see that it's still nearly impossible to counter.

On April 15 2010 00:50 Chen wrote:

Orb actually timed it, Chrono Immortals come out in ~27 seconds, not 20. 40/1.5=26.667

On April 15 2010 01:02 iounas wrote:

1 boost saves around 7 sec.. Old 30sec boost saved 10

On April 15 2010 01:10 QibingZero wrote:
The idea of more upgrades that are necessary in the matchup anyway (and this is exactly what the Marauder nerf was - it's not as if Terrans should stop using Marauders) is absolutely terrible. An Immortal upgrade for hardened shields is something I hope never comes into the game, simply because it will be a necessary upgrade every single game anyway. What is the point of an upgrade if the unit is not worth it's normal cost without it?

Adding upgrades for tier1 units at later tiers is a fine way of doing things. Zergling attack, Zealot charge, Stalker blink, Roach burrow/regen, etc. Adding upgrades that are required nearly the moment you create the unit is just sad. At this point, there are already enough upgrades in SC2, and it's to the point where the less overtly powerful half of them don't ever get used. Adding even more things that don't actually enhance gameplay in any way is just bad design practice.

On April 15 2010 01:10 QibingZero wrote:
What is the point of an upgrade if the unit is not worth it's normal cost without it?

On April 15 2010 01:10 QibingZero wrote:
The idea of more upgrades that are necessary in the matchup anyway (and this is exactly what the Marauder nerf was - it's not as if Terrans should stop using Marauders) is absolutely terrible. An Immortal upgrade for hardened shields is something I hope never comes into the game, simply because it will be a necessary upgrade every single game anyway. What is the point of an upgrade if the unit is not worth it's normal cost without it?

Adding upgrades for tier1 units at later tiers is a fine way of doing things. Zergling attack, Zealot charge, Stalker blink, Roach burrow/regen, etc. Adding upgrades that are required nearly the moment you create the unit is just sad. At this point, there are already enough upgrades in SC2, and it's to the point where the less overtly powerful half of them don't ever get used. Adding even more things that don't actually enhance gameplay in any way is just bad design practice.

On April 15 2010 01:15 Floophead_III wrote:


Broodwar had goliath range, goon range, hydra range/speed, ling speed, siege mode, vulture mines, vulture speed, stim, zealot speed, storm, carrier interceptor capacity and more. Not getting any of these upgrades was a serious game decision if you wanted to use those units as the core of your army. You're saying that broodwar has stupid gameplay and was badly designed? Nice trolling but totally fail.

On April 15 2010 01:25 Bibdy wrote:


So, it was okay that Zealots couldn't step foot anywhere near the Terran army without a T2 upgrade, but its totally unfair that Marauders have to sit behind a wall of depots for safety for a couple of minutes without a T1.5 upgrade before they can do it in the field?

Seriously, this topic is getting stupid. Battering down a Protoss inside his own base for 2 minutes flat at the start of the game with a single unit type, is not cool. Complain about getting some other improvements here or there, but the Conc Shell thing had to happen.

On April 15 2010 01:19 Vexx wrote:


Have you heard of what they call.... the ultralisk?

On April 15 2010 01:26 QibingZero wrote:


I'd love to believe you're purposefully this way, but there's a better chance you're just oblivious. I mean did you even read my post, or just like 2 lines of it? I'm sure you think I'm just some random player arguing against Terran and that you need to purge me, eh?

I mean, what are you adding to this conversation? 5 or so posts ago you're too lazy to even start a custom game as Protoss and watch how chrono boost works. Now you're responding within 5 minutes to my post and missing the point entirely. Should I make a comment about how mech isn't viable so you can continue being a reactionary in stride? -.-



Ironically, this person also misses the point, but thinks I'm bashing Protoss instead. My how the world turns.

On April 15 2010 01:29 Bibdy wrote:


Maybe if the first 2 people responding to you, 'didn't get it', you portrayed your idea wrong.

From what I gather, you're saying that Marauders are useless without the upgrade. If you're not saying that, why are you complaining that "What is the point of an upgrade if the unit is not worth it's normal cost without it?"? A Marauder is cheap as all hell. NOT having to do an upgrade is a damn crime against nature.

On April 15 2010 01:47 Markwerf wrote:
Ugh people that suggest a 'hardened shield' upgrade never thought this idea through. First of all, it would be a ugly solution as it would hugely influence PvZ as well. More importantly though, where would this so-called upgrade be researched?
At the robo bay itself? wouldn't make sense flavor wise (it has no upgrades at the moment) and you would have to choose between making immortals or getting the upgrade.
At the support bay? Wouldn't be good for strategy diversity, you would be forced to get a support bay if you are to use the robo bay then. Now the support bay is not so neccesary if you just use immortals and a observer/warp prism or 2.
At the cybernetics core? Would mingle alot with getting warpgate which takes a huge amount of time already. Pre-warpgate would delay warpgate by a ton and post-warpgate it would come way very late.

Concussive shells was a easy addition to the marauder as that would fit nicely at the tech-lab, a upgrade of any kind for immortals just doesn't fit equally well.
A modest increase in build time seems to be a much better solution, just adding random upgrades is not a nice way to fix the game. The marauder presented a unique problem in that the slow was overpowered in the very early game that the upgrade was the only way to fix it without nerfing the use for marauders lategame.