EPTsome replay of it would be really appreciated
Terran vs Protoss - Page 20
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
some replay of it would be really appreciated | ||
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Prozen
United States338 Posts
On April 16 2010 04:49 MorroW wrote: i dunno what the 4rax fe is. ppl has been talking about it like everyone should know what it is :< i doubt its any good tho some replay of it would be really appreciated No offense man, but you think that, because you haven't tried it out for yourself. I posted it on page 7 I believe. Edit: Here, I'll post it here again for you. and | ||
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Mente
United States288 Posts
On April 16 2010 04:45 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: more info on the 4rax fe pls. when do you start your cc ,when to cut scv/rines for cc or the rax,when to get gas? or do you just spam rines from 1 rax till you got excessive minerals,start cc and then get gas and rax whenever possible? You want a build order? Pump scvs/marines entire time 10 depot 12 rax 15~ OC As soon as OC finishes you should be able to make an scv and a cc. Keep pumping scvs/marines 450 minerals 3 rax. Obviously keep building supply the whole time. Soon as cc lands in expansion I throw down a refinery in the main. 3 bunkers there at expo as the cc is going down, marines on ledge to help with extra defense. That's pretty much it. Wait for timing attack choose what tech you're going to do with further scouting information. | ||
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ReneFlores
Mexico11 Posts
1. Reaper proxy rush. (Experience about 50 games on high US plat) Pros. You can win the game very quickly. Cons. Its an all-in tech, hard to come back from if you dont win in the first 5 minutes. Depending on how big the distance in the map is, the first (or second in LT, Kulas) scv you get goes to a smart location (where they cant spot you, and you can easly cliff your way into their base) to build your barracks. At 9 scv count you stop scv production, and at that point exactly when your SCV arrieves to their destined location, will have 150 minerals to build your barracks. Get the extractor Build an scv (you have 10 count now) Build a supply depot Get the tech lab Another SCV (11) Build a reaper, get in, if you see early cybernetics the 2nd unit you get is a marauder... DONT LOSE THE REAPER, if he gets a zealot prioritize killing the zealot over probes so you can gang bang the first stalker with 1 marauder / reaper. After that keep getting marauders and avoid getting supply blocked. If the protoss only gets zealots then just continue producing reapers untill you just win. Replays http://www.mediafire.com/?kjlmtytmmjj | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
On April 16 2010 05:03 ReneFlores wrote: I love how people that have no experience is giving us advice as if we havent tried those strats. I've been trying plenty of techs, all of them are succesfull depending on the map, and how aware is the protoss of what you're already doing. If the protoss knows what you're up to, you will most likely lose no matter what. Post some of those replays then. | ||
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ReneFlores
Mexico11 Posts
Pros. Depending on the map, you can completly run over the protoss. Cons. Its very map dependant, you need to scout well as un scouted colossi could beat you up. You get SCV's untill you have 10. As soon as you get minerals, get the barracks Another SCV Supply Depot The Barracks and the depot will finish at the same time. Get orbital command and marine at the same time Continue pumping marines and scvs Expo as soon as you have minerals Build bunkers, 3-4 you cant go safe on this or they will just try to break in your 2nd barrack gets a reactor Pump bio like crazy, come out when you feel you have the advantage and crush him. Replays: http://www.mediafire.com/?dollxmgyttm (Vs orb and bigt) | ||
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ReneFlores
Mexico11 Posts
I think the arguments Demuslim, Morrow, Jinro and others are very fair, the real problem with Terran vs Protoss is that, protoss counters every and each terran unit with their own. Marines = countered by sentrys, colossi. They come out slow at the beggining and need stympack or shields and marauder tanking to really be usefull. Marauders = Without slow they cant kite at all as stalkers run faster, die extremly fast to Immortals. Reapers = Easly killed by the just as fast - high range stalker. Ghots = Very gas dependant, if you get ghost basically you have to cut marauder production, its impossible to do both at the early game. Helions = Are just good at killing probes and zealot walls, die easly vs stalkers Tanks = Completly useless vs immortals, die fast, are expensive and heavy on supply. Thors = same as above, very slow and are easly kitted / killed. unless you're already on the protoss base you will find yourself alot of issues while trying to move out. Vikings = Die very fast vs stalkers Banshees = This little fellas are good, but if this is scouted with an observer blinking stalkers can take care of this fairly easy. Medivak = Can get instakilled by feedback but they're good for movility, and can be great at using the movility disadvantage protoss has to just pack 5 medivaks full of units and destroy all hes got. just hit and run, hit and run. Battle Cruisers = Easly countered by void rays. We have no unit that really counters their, other than the movility which terran has alot of advantage over protoss, protoss army is just far superior in every way. | ||
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threehundred
Canada911 Posts
2 rax tech lab with reactor hellion and just swarm him from there | ||
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
On April 16 2010 05:40 ReneFlores wrote: And to incontrol, i though you were smarter man, those steroids are hitting your moods arent they?, you seem to be getting enraged by Terrans wanting to Win or Lose a fair match. I think the arguments Demuslim, Morrow, Jinro and others are very fair, the real problem with Terran vs Protoss is that, protoss counters every and each terran unit with their own. Marines = countered by sentrys, colossi. They come out slow at the beggining and need stympack or shields and marauder tanking to really be usefull. Marauders = Without slow they cant kite at all as stalkers run faster, die extremly fast to Immortals. Reapers = Easly killed by the just as fast - high range stalker. Ghots = Very gas dependant, if you get ghost basically you have to cut marauder production, its impossible to do both at the early game. Helions = Are just good at killing probes and zealot walls, die easly vs stalkers Tanks = Completly useless vs immortals, die fast, are expensive and heavy on supply. Thors = same as above, very slow and are easly kitted / killed. unless you're already on the protoss base you will find yourself alot of issues while trying to move out. Vikings = Die very fast vs stalkers Banshees = This little fellas are good, but if this is scouted with an observer blinking stalkers can take care of this fairly easy. Medivak = Can get instakilled by feedback but they're good for movility, and can be great at using the movility disadvantage protoss has to just pack 5 medivaks full of units and destroy all hes got. just hit and run, hit and run. Battle Cruisers = Easly countered by void rays. We have no unit that really counters their, other than the movility which terran has alot of advantage over protoss, protoss army is just far superior in every way. Probe = Easily countered by SCVs. Zealots = Easily countered by Marauders, esp once slow is done. Also Hellions. Stalkers = Easily countered by Marauders, tanks, BANSHEES when numbers are more than 3. Thors Sentries = Easily countered by Marauders, Not to mention one ghost can EMP and drain a ton of energy from sentries grouped together. Immortals = Countered by Marauders. Not to mention Ghosts with EMP. Collosus = Countered by Vikings, turrets, banshees, Marauders if there is no meat shield. Thors HT = Countered by ghosts EMP, snipe, or medivacs which heal faster than storm does damage. DT = Countered by scans, Raven + any unit combo. Void rays = Easily Countered by vikings, marines, turrets, Thors Phoenix = I dont think phoenix's can do anything vs any terran unit honestly. Carriers = Countered by vikings, EMP, BCs. Thors Umm, what else am I missing?? My point being, you can NOT make an argument for every unit in a case by case basis, because every unit in the game has a counter if you are talking hypothetical. This is all meaningless. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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ReneFlores
Mexico11 Posts
They're in no way superior to the protoss army, they die fast but tank good and kite well with Slow. Medivaks dont heal faster than storm does damage, you're just talking out of your ass. 1 stalker beats 1 marauder, you can check it out. the stalker is faster and he can actually kite the marauder. Zealots arent countered by marauders early either obviusly if you just mass zealots vs marauders you're gonna lose like a retard. im talking about unit composition here, and besides zealots are tanks for your army, they're supposed to soak hits while immortals and stalkers get the job done unharmed. There is one reason why terran can never win TVP on late game, its because our army is inferior in every way. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
ive done this way before u did ur stuff, and my bo is even more solid and worked out bo-wise. i dont do it anymore because it doesnt work. colosus rush owned it back then thats why i started making the gas faster, for the upgrades and marauders. the nerf on marine build time came and now im 100% sure anything like this doesnt work sure u might win some games and sure u might blindly beat some bos. but then again that doesnt mean its a solid scout and respond build if it can auto-die against something like a colosus rush. forget about the 4rax fe, its luck-based and not at all like siege expo in sc1, that wasnt revolved around luck so much can u guys stop make ur silly lists plz, they r false :/ besides its more complicated than that. oh and btw ht has no counter vs terran, u always wanna have them in the battle field no matter what. ht and ghost r counters to each other, so it nullifies ) | ||
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p1ng
Germany53 Posts
Anyway, in my opinion you could see what a danger a 4-5 Gatepush is against the strat. Hasuobs just did some mistakes like bad positioning and not waiting for enough units to completly crush into it. Also going Robo later on. Replays are up now: Reaper-Bunkerrush: http://starcraft.gamesports.net/de/replays/861/ 4-Rax FE: http://starcraft.gamesports.net/de/replays/862/ | ||
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ReneFlores
Mexico11 Posts
On April 16 2010 06:02 MorroW wrote: can u guys stop make ur silly lists plz, they r false :/ besides its more complicated than that. oh and btw ht has no counter vs terran, u always wanna have them in the battle field no matter what. ht and ghost r counters to each other, so it nullifies ) Thats where you got it wrong buddy, he list is to prove that our basic unit composition gets completly countered by regular protoss units. We used to win based on early advantage, now dont have an advantage at any point in the game vs protoss. No unit we can make can give us the upperhand at any point in the game if the Protoss is scouting well / playing good, thats all im trying to say. This is specially caused by chrono boost, that allows you to get counter units extremly fast, like you're fighting against terran and you see he's got a marine heavy army, you can very easly - fast get a colossi, and get yourself back in the game. For us to make that kind of switchs its impossible. | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
On April 16 2010 06:11 p1ng wrote: GZ at Demuslim vs Hasuobs. Anyway, in my opinion you could see what a danger a 4-5 Gatepush is against the strat. Hasuobs just did some mistakes like bad positioning and not waiting for enough units to completly crush into it. Also going Robo later on. Link? | ||
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lolreaper
301 Posts
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Stimmmed
United States39 Posts
On April 16 2010 05:54 ReneFlores wrote: There is one reason why terran can never win TVP on late game, its because our army is inferior in every way. I play terran, and this is not only wrong but inclines most everyone to ignore the rest of your post for making such a generalization. If you always lose vs toss lategame its either because you are either making the wrong units or suck with ghosts, or very likely both. | ||
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Boardin
234 Posts
On April 16 2010 06:14 ReneFlores wrote: Thats where you got it wrong buddy, he list is to prove that our basic unit composition gets completly countered by regular protoss units. We used to win based on early advantage, now dont have an advantage at any point in the game vs protoss. No unit we can make can give us the upperhand at any point in the game if the Protoss is scouting well / playing good, thats all im trying to say. This is specially caused by chrono boost, that allows you to get counter units extremly fast, like you're fighting against terran and you see he's got a marine heavy army, you can very easly - fast get a colossi, and get yourself back in the game. For us to make that kind of switchs its impossible. trying to claim that you have no counters to any protoss units seems like a good way to make a compelling argument and gain credibility. MMM army with stim will beat a mixed zeal/stalker/immortal army that is 20 more supply. Bio's strength is in numbers. Clearly collosus counters/ht counter that but its a game of timings/adapting. Listing every P unit and saying how bad they counter terran units is just silly and pointless. | ||
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ReneFlores
Mexico11 Posts
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Boardin
234 Posts
On April 16 2010 06:02 MorroW wrote: ok so 4rax fe is basically like my 1rax fe i used back in patch5< except u add 3 rax on 450 where i added 2 rax 150 and 150 then get the gas going ive done this way before u did ur stuff, and my bo is even more solid and worked out bo-wise. i dont do it anymore because it doesnt work. colosus rush owned it back then thats why i started making the gas faster, for the upgrades and marauders. the nerf on marine build time came and now im 100% sure anything like this doesnt work sure u might win some games and sure u might blindly beat some bos. but then again that doesnt mean its a solid scout and respond build if it can auto-die against something like a colosus rush. forget about the 4rax fe, its luck-based and not at all like siege expo in sc1, that wasnt revolved around luck so much can u guys stop make ur silly lists plz, they r false :/ besides its more complicated than that. oh and btw ht has no counter vs terran, u always wanna have them in the battle field no matter what. ht and ghost r counters to each other, so it nullifies ) Watch day 9 101. Will give u some examples of 4 rax. | ||
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