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Terran vs Protoss - Page 21

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ReneFlores
Profile Joined July 2009
Mexico11 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-15 21:45:20
April 15 2010 21:45 GMT
#401
Btw i know its very gas heavy, but i wonder how effective an 8 reaper 4 marauder medivak drop push would be while you expand
lolreaper
Profile Joined April 2010
301 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-15 21:52:14
April 15 2010 21:52 GMT
#402
haha seeing how people cry about reaper rushes i see 50/50, 2x build time lab addon nerf comming, knowing blizzard they give us something irrelevant like tank reduced build time XDD
Nilaus
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark159 Posts
April 15 2010 21:57 GMT
#403
RE: ReneFlores
I have tried the fast expand BO you suggested and I really like it! I have no idea how viable it is at top plat level, but I liked it. I'm usually reluctant to halt SCV production, but it makes sense as you will catch up easily with 2 mules.

What I especially like about it is that the Protoss is forced to either deal damage or stop and expand to catch up. With the heavy marine focus an obvious choice for counter is Collosus.

After surviving the Immortal timing attack I like to tech to Starport as I love that tech level and it offers so much utility to the ground army.
Mente
Profile Joined December 2009
United States288 Posts
April 15 2010 21:58 GMT
#404
I've done reaper rushes multiple times today and against a protoss who scouts it it''s not that hard to defend. It doesn't deserve a nerf lol
Solomon Grundy want pants too!
arnold(soTa)
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden352 Posts
April 15 2010 22:05 GMT
#405
On April 16 2010 06:52 lolreaper wrote:
haha seeing how people cry about reaper rushes i see 50/50, 2x build time lab addon nerf comming, knowing blizzard they give us something irrelevant like tank reduced build time XDD


lol ye..all the broneleaguers complaining about reapers screaming at the top of their lungs when infact its just an annoyance at best...and completly irrelevant past 5minutes in the game.

watched the demuslim vs hasuobs game on lost temple where demuslim used the 4 rax FE, hasuobs did get a late immortal and sacrificed many units early game, and still it was way to close. also he expanded himself, the game would have been over so much faster had he just made units and moved on demuslims base I think.. I dont really see this 4 rax FE working to well honestly.
I have tried it some but not against A-level protosses yet, I am eager too tho...and I will not say for sure its bad until I give it some more practice.
In my attempts the protoss hasnt really kept pressure on me allowing me to techlab-up and get mass marauders out quickly, and then its gg if Im two basing vs his one base, even if he has immortals.
but there is a pretty huge window in which he can roll ove you with his first few immortals and gateway units even with 3 bunkers.
I rly disslike mass rines vs protoss too, as one lone sentry with guardian shield can cut their damage output in 1/3 ...that is so huge it blows my mind. add to this that sentry requires NO TECH just a gateway and any protoss that is not a retard will always have atleast one sentry in his army.. they are just to good not to have.
"I like turtles"
Prozen
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States338 Posts
April 15 2010 22:10 GMT
#406
On April 16 2010 06:11 p1ng wrote:
GZ at Demuslim vs Hasuobs.

Anyway, in my opinion you could see what a danger a 4-5 Gatepush is against the strat. Hasuobs just did some mistakes like bad positioning and not waiting for enough units to completly crush into it. Also going Robo later on.

Replays are up now:
Reaper-Bunkerrush:
http://starcraft.gamesports.net/de/replays/861/
4-Rax FE:
http://starcraft.gamesports.net/de/replays/862/

Demuslim, I love you for trying the build out. Thank you so much. Good job winning.
Also, I think Demuslim could have made the tech switch to Marauders a bit faster though. If he had the Marauders out sooner, I don't think Hasuobs could have pressured him that much.
To transcend beyond greatness, you must become greatness itself.
hellitsaboutme
Profile Joined March 2010
Singapore118 Posts
April 15 2010 22:31 GMT
#407
On April 16 2010 07:10 Prozen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2010 06:11 p1ng wrote:
GZ at Demuslim vs Hasuobs.

Anyway, in my opinion you could see what a danger a 4-5 Gatepush is against the strat. Hasuobs just did some mistakes like bad positioning and not waiting for enough units to completly crush into it. Also going Robo later on.

Replays are up now:
Reaper-Bunkerrush:
http://starcraft.gamesports.net/de/replays/861/
4-Rax FE:
http://starcraft.gamesports.net/de/replays/862/

Demuslim, I love you for trying the build out. Thank you so much. Good job winning.
Also, I think Demuslim could have made the tech switch to Marauders a bit faster though. If he had the Marauders out sooner, I don't think Hasuobs could have pressured him that much.

Glad he worked out something instead of whining
Mente
Profile Joined December 2009
United States288 Posts
April 15 2010 22:59 GMT
#408
http://www.filefront.com/16136177/Mente FE Builds.rar

Here's some replays the last one being the first time I tried it. All different games with practically the same builds and some different attempts at transition (lul bcs).

I think I was in a "fairly" solid position on most of the games. Admittedly I could have probably done a lot better with some better unit compositions here and there.
Solomon Grundy want pants too!
DeMusliM
Profile Joined February 2010
United Kingdom401 Posts
April 15 2010 23:47 GMT
#409
Well, i didn't make this thread to just whine about protoss - wanted to hear some thoughts about it .

So i took some strats literally right from this thread and played them - thanks! ^^
Although on a serious note, both strategies i did worked out great because of certain things the protoss did which is to take note of:
Game 1 - 6 rax 6 refinery vs 12 gateway - if you do the 10 pylon 10 gateway it's alot less effective - and he bought a sentry to fend off the reapers instead of a stalker meaning gg (reapers kill sentrys easily)

Game 2 - he scouted the wrong way so he saw my base last, meaning he didn't know what i was doing until it was abit too late - quite unlucky for him, and i dare say if he played this again he wouldn't go 2-3 gateway rush and rather tech up to collosus/HT's with an expo.

Skyze
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada2324 Posts
April 16 2010 00:03 GMT
#410
Well its clear that you guys wont be persuaded to listen to anything other than your illusions of thinking Terran is so terrible, so its pointless for anyone to even reason with you.

All I can say is I hope to god to meet more of you terrans who are going marine/tank vs protoss in ladder like Flophead. That will be an easy win for sure. Since you know, Protoss is the most imbalanced race ever, skill has nothing to do with it.


Canada Gaming ~~ The-Feared
WorkersOfTheWorld
Profile Joined April 2010
United States619 Posts
April 16 2010 00:10 GMT
#411
Good to see some of the suggestions worked out.
Samwise: You don't want to play Dustin [Browder]. He can't even beat the UI, let alone the AI. -
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
April 16 2010 00:16 GMT
#412
On April 16 2010 09:03 Skyze wrote:
Well its clear that you guys wont be persuaded to listen to anything other than your illusions of thinking Terran is so terrible, so its pointless for anyone to even reason with you.

All I can say is I hope to god to meet more of you terrans who are going marine/tank vs protoss in ladder like Flophead. That will be an easy win for sure. Since you know, Protoss is the most imbalanced race ever, skill has nothing to do with it.




Marine/tank was my attempt at gaining earlygame control without going instant ghosts due to the flaws in going fast ghost/tank vs mass gateway play. I don't believe either is viable right now, at least with 1 factory.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-16 02:58:20
April 16 2010 02:56 GMT
#413
So, I just tried this build, and from what I can gather, this Terran dude did everything right:

http://www.mediafire.com/?5miiwngxtww

His only fatal flaw was not waiting like 15-20 seconds for Stim to research before attacking. Had he waited for it he would have rolled all over me. He even had a super-fast Ghost for the first attack and I thought I was done for at that moment.

What's interesting from watching the replay in super slo-mo, a Marauder hitting an Immortal, with Guardian Shield up, only does 8 damage to the shields.
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
April 16 2010 03:03 GMT
#414
Funny to see Day9 cover your game DeMuslim. From watching it I know 100% that fast colossus + warp prism + warpgates would just dismantle that. There's no way you can kill zealot + colossus in your main. I don't think it's viable if scouted. The only reason that worked is because protoss didn't scout it and played really oddly (expo at 12 wtf was that?) It might be viable in the way that 1 rax FE in BW is viable which is a counter to a particular style of play. I do not believe it is viable as standard play though. =/
Half man, half bear, half pig.
AncienTs
Profile Joined March 2010
Japan227 Posts
April 16 2010 03:10 GMT
#415
how viable is early eng +1 weapon + stimpack on marines on small maps, anyone want to test this with me?
Starcraft Disclaimer Language: There is no imbalance, nothing is OP.
BigOleDonkey
Profile Joined April 2010
United States43 Posts
April 16 2010 03:48 GMT
#416
On April 16 2010 11:56 Bibdy wrote:
So, I just tried this build, and from what I can gather, this Terran dude did everything right:

http://www.mediafire.com/?5miiwngxtww

His only fatal flaw was not waiting like 15-20 seconds for Stim to research before attacking. Had he waited for it he would have rolled all over me. He even had a super-fast Ghost for the first attack and I thought I was done for at that moment.

What's interesting from watching the replay in super slo-mo, a Marauder hitting an Immortal, with Guardian Shield up, only does 8 damage to the shields.


Here's the thing about this game though - your first hit on his ramp was not necessary - you could have camped outside his base and fanned out in a nice firing arc and spreading out to minimize EMP while warping in a sentry from your proxy pylon to forcefield him if he tries to leave. As played, you ran almost in a straight line up his ramp and lost a partially damaged stalker instantly. That's what gave him a window to counterattack, and set up that stim possibility you mention.

Then you expand, and even given the very questionable first attack that cost you a good amount of units, and 400 minerals invested in a nexus, you still hold off his counterattack. Things seem way out of whack here.

I'm not trying to be harsh though, sorry if I'm coming off harsh or abrasive here. Reps being posted are good, this thread needs more reps from both perspectives, so thanks for that.
Hold-Lurker
Profile Joined October 2007
United States403 Posts
April 16 2010 04:03 GMT
#417
LZGamer pulled off the 4rax FE in game 2 against Mirhi in tonight's ITL. Mirhi reads the build perfectly and rushes collo, LZ unluckily misses collo tech with 2x scans - but still breaks even in the first fight trading most of bio army for 3x collo and then crushes Mirhi in the 2nd battle with vikings in play.

That said there seemed like a bit of skill differential between LZ and Mirhi (mismicro'd collo, supply blocked for a long time, lack of pressure with initial collo, etc.). I mean I've beaten Mirhi before in ladder and am no where near LZGamer skill level. I hope Drewbie tries the build vs Win next!
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
April 16 2010 04:21 GMT
#418
On April 16 2010 13:03 Hold-Lurker wrote:
LZGamer pulled off the 4rax FE in game 2 against Mirhi in tonight's ITL. Mirhi reads the build perfectly and rushes collo, LZ unluckily misses collo tech with 2x scans - but still breaks even in the first fight trading most of bio army for 3x collo and then crushes Mirhi in the 2nd battle with vikings in play.

That said there seemed like a bit of skill differential between LZ and Mirhi (mismicro'd collo, supply blocked for a long time, lack of pressure with initial collo, etc.). I mean I've beaten Mirhi before in ladder and am no where near LZGamer skill level. I hope Drewbie tries the build vs Win next!


For irony, I was playing the build vs mirhi in a game before that one. I was pretty even with some pretty bad force control and really no experience with the build at all, so I do think if it's not punished it puts you in a very nice position midgame. I do think it's punishable though. I also think that it pretty much gives protoss a free trip to templarville if they want to just get storms asap. I think you might have an eco advantage but you will be massively behind in tech.

In short, I was surprised at the effectiveness of the build since I thought it'd just die entirely.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
WorkersOfTheWorld
Profile Joined April 2010
United States619 Posts
April 16 2010 05:11 GMT
#419
I'd agree mihiri was out-played, but i really don't see the gaping flaws in the build you suggest. Post your replay floop.
Samwise: You don't want to play Dustin [Browder]. He can't even beat the UI, let alone the AI. -
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-16 05:15:53
April 16 2010 05:11 GMT
#420
On April 16 2010 12:48 BigOleDonkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2010 11:56 Bibdy wrote:
So, I just tried this build, and from what I can gather, this Terran dude did everything right:

http://www.mediafire.com/?5miiwngxtww

His only fatal flaw was not waiting like 15-20 seconds for Stim to research before attacking. Had he waited for it he would have rolled all over me. He even had a super-fast Ghost for the first attack and I thought I was done for at that moment.

What's interesting from watching the replay in super slo-mo, a Marauder hitting an Immortal, with Guardian Shield up, only does 8 damage to the shields.


Here's the thing about this game though - your first hit on his ramp was not necessary - you could have camped outside his base and fanned out in a nice firing arc and spreading out to minimize EMP while warping in a sentry from your proxy pylon to forcefield him if he tries to leave. As played, you ran almost in a straight line up his ramp and lost a partially damaged stalker instantly. That's what gave him a window to counterattack, and set up that stim possibility you mention.

Then you expand, and even given the very questionable first attack that cost you a good amount of units, and 400 minerals invested in a nexus, you still hold off his counterattack. Things seem way out of whack here.

I'm not trying to be harsh though, sorry if I'm coming off harsh or abrasive here. Reps being posted are good, this thread needs more reps from both perspectives, so thanks for that.


Well, according to what people are saying about this build, apparently just waltzing up his ramp right there would be a surefire win, so I wanted to test the theory I certainly wasn't expecting that Ghost.

I can see why Terrans dread it, with Stalkers and Immortals sitting out there with a Sentry ready to FF half of your army at the bottom of the ramp.
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