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ZeKk
Sweden320 Posts
On April 28 2010 00:34 InnerPartySystem wrote: Check the replay I posted above and see how LiquidNazgul pulls it off with some great probe micro and a CBed stalker, only losing about 4 probes in the process (meaning he is way ahead). If I only could :/ | ||
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Ganondorf
Italy600 Posts
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
I normally build a Zealot after the Stalker, so I've got an answer to the following Marauder. This is standard in every one of my games against Terrans. If it turns out he's not Reaper rushing, I'll send my Stalker into his base and cause some havoc. You can kill one Marine out of his first 3 without losing any health and if he runs off, you can start shooting depots/tech lab and be a real pain in the ass. So, Reaper rush or not, you can make the most out of that build. If he has Marauders, obviously, you just run away, grab a Sentry and figure out what's up with his build order through Hallucination or a quick Observer and react accordingly. At the end of the day, I really hate the Reaper. Its such horrible design. The unit is essentially useless outside of an early rush. There's nothing the Reaper can do late game that sending a small fraction of your M&M army out in a Medivac can't. Want to do econ harassment? Drop M&Ms with a medivac. Want to kill a defenseless expansion when his army is miles away? Drop M&Ms with a medivac. Want to counter the Zealots and/or Sentries in his army? Make more MMMs! I just don't see the point of that unit other than to give Terrans these cheese attacks as an early game option. | ||
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Stayenalive
United States13 Posts
Repears remind me of late game cannon fodder speedlings. They feel useless late game, and aren't used the same way as they are in the early game. They should almost equate to banelings. They should be the Orc Raiders from wc3. Make reapers require an engineering bay(maybe even require a cheap upgrade to get jump packs to allow them hop cliffs), make them cost more gas, and let them be built via reactor attachments. | ||
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j4vz
Canada976 Posts
On April 27 2010 23:13 InnerPartySystem wrote: +1. Last night I saw this game of Demuslim vs LiquidNazgul, were Nazgul showed off some great probe micro vs a fast reaper build and only lost 4 probes or something. this wasnt a 6/11, i saw that game too, in my video the terran doesnt make a first scv he goes straight for a rax... and he goes for a bunker and counter the 1st stalker with a marauder... basically its faster to get a reaper out and youll be closer to the opponent base. EDIT: look the demuslim, he start his rax at around 1min. in my video he start his rax around 40second could be done in 35seconds... how can you compare this with nazgul game.... | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
Since people tend to not read posts in the middle of the topic, I'll say it again: the reaper rush can be easily fixed by better map design (slightly bigger maps) and a very slight build time increase for the tech lab (5 seconds at most). Yes, obviously it's easier to defend if you scouted it first, because you can send a few probes to where the reaper would jump and delay it further, but even if you don't, it's still not an autoloss. | ||
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Stayenalive
United States13 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
It does require some degree of micro to pull off, but it takes even more to defend. I feel bad for most protoss players that run against this. | ||
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Hold-Lurker
United States403 Posts
If only Demuslim had shot the warping in zealots instead of chasing unslowed sentries and not gotten that marauder trapped by his own scvs, it could have gone very differently. ^^ | ||
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Xevian
United States15 Posts
Check this out. Total Cost for 1 reaper Minerals = 150 (rax) + 75 (refinery) + 50 (tech lab) + 50 (reaper) = 325 Gas = 25 (tech lab) + 50 (reaper) = 75 Total = 325 / 75 Total Cost for 1 stalker Minerals = 100 (pylon) + 150 (gateway) + 150 (Cyber core) + 75 (assimilator) + 125 (stalker) = 600 Gas = 50 (stalker) Total = 600 / 50 Obviously it will take the protoss longer to acquire such resources, but let's do some deeper analysis. I've attached two replays - one of a terran going the fastest possible reaper (6 rax), one a protoss going a fastest possible stalker (8-pylon), both on Blistering Sands. I'm not the best player in the world, but these give a good idea of how fast or slow things can be done. http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=b1c86621a4fe9bc00de4fc1039a0167459d09d6f361d810d597b5d7f10aaff85 The terran replay shows the reaper in the enemy base at 3:11 and a bunker 25% done near the nexus. The protoss had the stalker ready for battle at 3:58 That's 47 seconds. Granted, the terran has less workers at this point, but that's about to change, right?  I mean... 47 seconds is a long time for a unit that kills a probe in 3.3 seconds and a zealot in 10 seconds.What could be done to resolve this issue? We still want reapers to be viable early harass, but not so fast that it's impossible to kill it while it is firing for almost a minute. My suggestion to help alleviate the problem: Increase tech lab construction time from 25 to 40 seconds - OR - Require engineering bay instead of tech lab for reaper production | ||
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FagelBagel
United States63 Posts
On April 17 2010 23:32 -orb- wrote: I apologize in advance for being so god damn bad manner to all you dumb fucks in my thread, but holy fucking shit. It's like an endless fucking stream of dumb fucking morons that come into the thread spewing their fucking idiocy all over the place. Read the fucking OP, watch the fucking replay, or get the fuck out I don't give a shit what you have to say. What you've said has been said already and it doesn't fucking work if you had read the thread at all, so please kill yourself for being so god damn stupid. I'm so tired of 90% of the replies to topics these days being from retards that don't even read the OP let alone even a fraction of the rest of the thread. You're not welcome Your pretty good at SC2 orb, but even the most godly players have no right talking like that.. no one should talk to fellow TLers like that. Im sure you can find a more civilized way of responding. | ||
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go4it
Croatia91 Posts
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Chunkybuddha
Canada347 Posts
On April 17 2010 23:32 -orb- wrote: I apologize in advance for being so god damn bad manner to all you dumb fucks in my thread, but holy fucking shit. It's like an endless fucking stream of dumb fucking morons that come into the thread spewing their fucking idiocy all over the place. Read the fucking OP, watch the fucking replay, or get the fuck out I don't give a shit what you have to say. What you've said has been said already and it doesn't fucking work if you had read the thread at all, so please kill yourself for being so god damn stupid. I'm so tired of 90% of the replies to topics these days being from retards that don't even read the OP let alone even a fraction of the rest of the thread. You're not welcome Holy shit dude... A dumb reply would be to rush all your probes and your first zelot/stalker to t base. A lot of posts here have been viable and interesting to read; I think that's called a discussion, and we had a civilized one until that post. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
If the only possible way to stop this is to get a fast stalker then why make a thread? It's not like you can magically make anything else to stop it unless you want to just suicide zealots endlessly. It seems obvious you are pigeonholed into a specific start but what you do after (if u survive) is up for debate I suppose. | ||
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EmeraldSparks
United States1451 Posts
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ymirheim
Sweden300 Posts
You just need to NOT group all your probes and attackmove the reaper, you need to split your probes into two or more groups and flank and surround the reaper. Reapers die ridiculously fast even to probes. It can always be argued whether or not it is reasonable that this build is so easy for terran that anyone can do it and that it takes significantly more skill for a protoss player to beat it but it is by no means unstoppable with proper probe micro. It must also be taken into consideration that as a terran if you do super fast reaper and the toss stops it, then you are fucked. Plain and simple, dead as a fucking doornail. | ||
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perfectflaw72
Canada94 Posts
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Alou
United States3748 Posts
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
On April 28 2010 08:04 Chunkybuddha wrote: Holy shit dude... A dumb reply would be to rush all your probes and your first zelot/stalker to t base. A lot of posts here have been viable and interesting to read; I think that's called a discussion, and we had a civilized one until that post. Please explain to me how saying the same thing over and over and over after it's been refuted many times is a civilized conversation. Here's an example conversation: OP: Example A: Poster 1: Well couldn't you counter by X Poster 2: Here's the reason that doesn't work, Poster 1 Poster 3: Well couldn't you counter by Y Poster 4: Here's the reason that doesn't work, Poster 3 Poster 5: Well couldn't you counter by X Poster 2: I already showed why that doesn't work... Poster 6: Well couldn't you counter by X or Y? Poster anything: WE SHOWED YOU WHY THAT DOESNT WORK Poster 7-100: Well couldn't you counter by X or Y? I didn't read the thread because I'm the mentally handicapped spawn of a monkey with an abnormally small brain and a llama. Now do you understand why I'm pissed off? No one fucking reads OPs or other peoples' posts in threads anymore, people just post their idiotic ideas that have already been refuted acting like in a thread with hundreds of posts it hasn't already been discussed and then pretend like the OP has no idea what he's talking about because your solution must work and must've not already been refuted by many different posters explaining why it doesn't work. It's like you people have downs syndrome, honestly it's infuriating. As for someone saying I should be banned for my BM, first off nice back seat modding you twat. Secondly, in my opinion if you post in a thread without even having read the OP let alone any other posts in the thread you deserve to be instantly banned. You're not going to add to any discussion if you haven't even read what the discussion is about and are just spewing retarded comments based on the title of the thread, aka the only thing you actually read. | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
On April 28 2010 11:19 On_Slaught wrote: Orb gives Idra a run for the money in terms of BM. At least Idra is (more) civil on the forums lol. If the only possible way to stop this is to get a fast stalker then why make a thread? It's not like you can magically make anything else to stop it unless you want to just suicide zealots endlessly. It seems obvious you are pigeonholed into a specific start but what you do after (if u survive) is up for debate I suppose. YET AGAIN IF YOU HAD ACTUALLY READ THE THREAD YOU WOULD KNOW GETTING A FAST STALKER DOES NOT STOP IT. How fucking stupid do you have to be. I may give idra a run for his money for forum BM but you give George W. Bush a run for his money on sheer stupidity Honestly I don't think anything makes me more angry than you morons that think you're so clever posting your oh-so-original ideas in threads where you didn't even read the original post. Here's an idea: if you didn't read the OP, don't post in the thread! Simple concept! To be frank the quality of the sc2 strategy forum is absolutely disgusting. Every thread I read I see immediate comments from people that CLEARLY didn't even read the topic. Newsflash: No one cares what you have to say if you don't even know what the fuck is being discussed. | ||
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